Pathfinder General /pfg/

Not OP. Just stating what I saw over the last few threads.

Well, at least I've got chicken.

What is the best martial class?

>Magpie Mage archetype added
>Force effect interactions added to Deconstruct Energy
>Adjusted wording on the ACFs since "Alternative class feature" turned out to be a problem with existing wording.

1pp, I'd say vigilante, followed by barbarian or paladin (if you count it).

initiating archetype when

Either a Mystic or a Vivisectionist Polymath Alchemist with Material Mastery Discovery depending on how crazy your ST allows you to get with crafting.

Could we please have an Intelligence savant ACF?

Warder with Zweihander Sentinel and Ordained Defender archetypes.

Does Instant Imitation expend a spell slot to cast the spell copied? Not that clear.

The class is wisdom-based because as a whole, their spellcasting is built on intuition and instinct with some experimentation. It's not an expression of themselves like a sorcerer's Charisma-based magic, nor is it entirely study-based like an Int-caster's is.

It'd be a perfectly fine houserule (and in fact hurt you a bit because of its abilities that are based on Will saves), but I'm not going to be adding an alternate-stat ACF or archetype to this class. I don't think it'd fit without rewriting the fluff more than I want to with the concept I have for the class.

Fluffwise, an Intelligence-based spellburst savant is called a wizard with sacred geometry.

Straight Zweihander Sentinel.

Fuck Ordained Defender.

Nope, it's free. I will update the wording in the next version.

>Mary Kirin as magpie mage
You won't fool anyone.

So, how does Magpie Mage actually work? It's a bit unclear regarding how it interacts with its spell-slots, if it can be modified using the rest of the Spellburst Savant stuff...

Another worry with Magpie Mage is that your slowed progression feels like it will fall behind the selection of spells you can copy.
It's not so bad in early game, but by the time you can copy 3rd level spells, most caster enemies will be throwing 4th or 5th level spells at you, when you can copy 4th, they'll be 6th/7th, etc.

It gets less spells prepared, but gets a unique set of spells known.

I'll adjust the wording some in a bit to be clearer. Busy right now.

That's a good point. Will think on that.

So, I'm running an adventure. Party consists of a half-orc warder, a leshy warden tiefling druid, a Titan mauler half-orc barbarian, a trap breaker goblin alchemist, and a ratfolk witch.
They are currently level two.

I've decided to balance encounters by increasing the number of enemies to make combat last longer and making critical hits a pc only ability.

Is this a good idea?

Fuck I knew there was something about the name and just figured it out.

Now I need to wonder if the other names are like that.

Just the punching archetype's. It's kinda obvious once you see it.

>Straight Zweihander Sentinel.

What if my Zweihander Sentinel is gay?

Also you need to remember traiting out Golden Lion for Elemental Flux for maximum power.

The Meditant is REALLY obvious with the quote.

Or just pick up Cagebreaker as your Martial Tradition.

> Martial Tradition.
Gay

Idea.

Make the difference between your actual highest spell level and the level of the spell be the cost required to cast it via nova.

Then slow the Nova progression down to match the Spellburst Scholar speed.

So if you're 9th level and have a Nova bonus of +2 and a maximum spell level of 3rd, you can copy 5th level spells, but can't add anything that isn't a +0 metamagic to it. When you hit 10th, you get a +3 nova, and can copy either a 6th level spell or a 5th level spell with a +1 attached.

I mean, the stock Scholar's Nova is basically 1/2 her level, so her maximum spell level (if you include the metamagic costs) at 20th is 14th. With this, it's only 11th. You're trading raw blasting power for versatility, I think that's a fair trade, right?

What makes the Zweihander so much more powerful than the normal Warder? I don't see anyone talk about the normal Warder, it is always Zweihander.

>you can use a sword a shield
>or you could sacrifice a bit of defense for a lot of offense with a two harder.

Generally twohanding is always better than having a shield

Just look at its class features and see it's almost a straight upgrade.

>What makes the Zweihander so much more powerful than the normal Warder?

It gives you a shield bonus equivalent to your Aegis and improved AoO for free.

And by free I mean the things they replace are useless.

Oh, another thing about the Magpie.

As written, they can copy divine and Psychic spells. However, many divine spells have a divine focus component; does this mean the magpie mage might need to collect holy (or unholy) symbols to copy Cleric symbols of varying alignments? If the magpie copies a Druid spell, are they unable to use it while wearing metal armor? Does this count as casting divine spells, and thus qualifies for PrCs that require it, or are they casting the divine spell as an arcane spell? Can the magpie use their abilities to change the components after the fact, or are they forced to use the original components?

Speaking of the sentinel, what archetypes stack well with it?

>the first 10 posts in the thread are all shitposting because people actually care about pictures

Taking crits away from NPCs drastically reduces their overall threat, so unless you're thinking about nearly doubling encounter sizes and/or kicking the CR a couple notches up, it's probably not a good idea.

Well druid spells and their armor isn't a facet of the spells, it's part of being a druid.

Reminder to play Paizo's latest masterpiece, In Search of Sanity.

So, I'm playing a stupid character idea and need advice. One of my friends has said that multiclassing is stupid, so I decided to make a class that does nothing but 2-4 level class dips. Currently character is level 4, about to five, 2 enlightened paladin, 2 nature's oracle, 1 steel fist warlord.

Starts are 21/12/16/16/12/18. I was planning on going 2 Aegis for some customizations, Monk of many styles for some increased damage dice and dragon style/ferocity, then sorcerer and dragon disciple for natural attacks and huge bonuses to strength, along with enlarge and bulls strength.

Is there a better option for this stupid mess? I'm also not sure if I should take aegis/monk or the sorcerer levels first.

Only third party stuff allowed is psionics/path of war (expanded) and the single feat from flaming crab games "greater unarmed damage"

Not forrest (put your trip back on dammit, it makes finding your posts awkward), but you're basically saying "you should let them copy 9th-level spells as they want by level 20, but get less free metamagic."

Which seems like it runs counter to the whole thing here.

Instead of making NPC crits deal more damage, instead make the attack deal its maximum damage. That way, the attack isn't dealing any more damage than it could've.

If you want to streamline the game further, make normal attacks deal their average damage each time. In this way, the only random chance is on the attack roll. The same goes for spell effects, breath weapons, and so forth - make a natural 1 on the save against these things deal full damage.

I see your point.
Hrm.

The copying effect is really not useful when there's too much of a disparity, though. At least against NPCs with class levels.

Monsters with SLAs almost never gain them at the same rate as the PC wizards do.

How would you simulate a resistance to bullets mechanic?
Something similar to protection from arrows?

I just looked at golden lion. Why is it that bad?

>9th rank maneuver is a boost that works based on how many party members you have
What the fuck. So if you don't have a party of 5, fuck off?

Protection From Arrows works against bullets

Golden Lion is the weakest of the ZweiSent disciplines, while Elemental Flux adds so much utility and raw power that it's a straight upgrade.

So /pfg/ it's the start of the weekend, what are you looking forward to in your next session?

Anyone reading or playing Strange Aeons yet? Got the first book last night and it seems like a ton of fun.

Oh good.

Why would I play this class and not just be a Sorcerer or Arcanist holding a metamagic rod? Seriously, I don't understand what this class is supposed to contribute otherwise.

It's an "artillery" class (which is already a terrible life-choice because doing damage will always be worse than being able to end the fight in one turn by doing something else) so it gets...5th level spells? What the fuck? The most damaging spell for its level at the moment in PF is Disintegrate and that is level 6 AND it is also a save-or-die that will just fucking kill you anyway, so all of this metamagic "nova" bullshit is useless.

And as a class that has "nova" in it's fucking class features...where is any bonus to initiative? That's the whole point of novaing in the first fucking place: win initiative, move into range, and nuke. A Diviner Wizard with a metamagic rod (of Daze for added levels of fuck you) is demonstrably superior to this piece of shit in every way.

I am! I had one last night, and another a week from today. The party had a really good experience actually by splitting the party between stealthy and not stealthy, one group snuck off to check out a guy claiming to be a god while the other stood around and distracted their dumb followers. They figured out he's actually two guys using a fusion power to become nearly godlike. They only believe he's pretending to be godlike. They're totally unprepared to fight him. It's going to be great.

1. Comparing things to a Wizard, Sorcerer, or Arcanist is faulty logic to begin with because they're busted-as-fuck classes.
2. Because being able to select a spell from your very first level and being able to have it be useful and usable for the next 19 levels is fun.

The rest of the players arriving and then the DM. Hopefully I'll get one or two built by the time he gets here but we'll see.

Start of Strange Aeons character creation for my group. Still torn between a Cult Master Mesmerist, Relic Channeler Medium, or trying out the Haunt Collector Occultist.

1. That's not faulty logic. That's just regular functioning logic. It's actually completely within reason since the class is actively trying to participate in a party in a game with the big boys and it is trying to do it using the spellcasting mechanics. So, it stands to reason to make a comparison to extant classes.
2. Absolutely no spell you select off the 1st level Sorc/Wiz list at fucking 19th level is going to be useful. No amount of metamagic in the fucking world is going to help you take down a CR19 encounter. What, are you going to cast Maximized Empowered Magic Missile at an Adamantine Golem?
d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/constructs/golem/golem-adamantine
This motherfucker has fast healing 10 and 205 hp (not to mention the laundry list of immunities that make this example a moot point anyway). By the time you plop on enough metamagic to pierce SR, negate healing, do the correct elemental damage type, and trick out your damage dice, you are going to get fucking killed because, again, this class has no way of going first outside of the normal stuff all classes have access to and no way of contributing outside of niche cases where shooting a CR 19 creature with Magic Missile is meaningful thing.

Potential TPK via Russian infantry barrage. I can finally take the permanent hiatus if that happens.

reign of winter?

No, Pathfinder.

Both looking forward to it and dreading it, to be honest. Waiting for final word on whether a retcon happens is agony. I like my group for the most part, but some of the other players really need to chill the fuck out.

TWO MORE DAYS.

Aight.

Updated wording on it to make that clearer.

Okay, so! After going through some more of this, what I've done is changed the mechanics slightly. In particular:
>You now automatically fill your memorization slots with magpie mage spells if you don't have any copied.
>You get a version of the Versatile Spellcaster from 3.5: by expending two spell slots of one level, you can cast a spell of level+1. This means that you'll be one level "ahead" in many cases, since you can combine two of your highest-level slots to get a spell you've memorized of a level up.
>QoL buff: added text about starting with memorized spells.

Hopefully this should make them more playable and unique.

They're cast as arcane spells. I've added clarifying wording. Also, . Ditto alignment requirements on spells you gank from clerics.

Idea for an archetype or ACF: The ability to apply your metamagics and the like to potions, wands, staves, etc. You're less skilled at forcing raw magic into a shape, but are much more talented at channeling it through a different medium and modifying it from there, like a mix in-theme between an Artificer and an Occultist.

I'll just link my idea from to this version too.

Game's picking up some new players so that's going to make next week interesting, especially since we're in the middle of exploring a warehouse tricked out with all manner of lewd traps.

>Why not a sorcerer/arcanist
For the same reason one might play a magus or bard. The classes in this game are inherently imbalanced, which I personally consider a problem, and as such do not balance to the full casters' balance points.

>Artillery class, 5th-level spells
Well, it's more of a dual-role class between "artillery" and "battlefield control." It's much better off using BFC spells with a secondary focus on blasting (often through its scaling cantrips).

The class is designed to be able to contribute well to fights and even pull off powerful shenanigans with its spells, but it's not going to compete with a sorcerer or arcanist holding a metamagic rod. You're 100% correct there.

>Initiative bonus
That's a really good point; they could use it well. I've added an initiative boost.

>Faulty logic
Personally, I'd say it is; as the game has a rather tenuous balance, this class is outright not meant to compete with (though it should do fine /participating with/ the "big boys," so to speak. It'll be much more at home in a group of classes like the spiritualist, inquisitor, vigilante, and the like.

>Adamantine golem
Well, about that. I'd say that against an adamantine golem at level 19, my first step would be to use a nova spell for Widened (+3) Heightened (+6) Grease. Now it's proned and when it next moves, it's likely to fall again after it stands, and is at half speed regardless. At the very least, its next turn's negated.

Or Quickened Grease (5th-level spell slot) followed by a Wall of Stone, perhaps, to surround it. At which point my Extended Overland Flight from yesterday will let me fly above it and shoot at it repeatedly with nova spell Quickened (+4) Empowered (+2) Maximized (+3) Starsprays followed by a non-metamagicked Starspray. Though my attack bonus won't be as high as it could be, I will wittle it down eventually.

It has a lot of tools to face level-appropriate enemies.

The Spellburst Scholar does that with wands (chosen because of the 4th-level limit), along with buffing their use by using their own stats. I might consider expanding their item use.

Whoops, my bad, they also did staves. Apparently I had already decided it works fine with it.

Help me pick one:

strawpoll.me/11142588

Why just one?

I cannot help but think that 3rd-level is now too much of a major leap for this class, since it is when the class receives its first free metamagic level and its initiative bonus.

The initiative bonus could perhaps be broken up into +1s and then spread out throughout its level progression.

Given the arrival of the Haunted Heroes Handbook pact wizard archetype, which can stack with divination (foresight), conjuration (teleportation), or the exploiter wizard, it is difficult to see any class other than the wizard as holding the title of "most overpowered class in Pathfinder."

FUCK
Fucked up something in the export, didn't get a change I made. Let's try that again.

Hrm. That's... Actually a good point. It jumps way ahead of other spontaneous casters. Breaking it up into a +X over the level progression is probably safer.

Spellburst Scholars can now nova spell potions they drink.

Update:
>Fixed some layout bugs (oops) and typos (more oops)
>Spellburst Scholars can use nova spell on potions
>First Strike changed to a scaling bonus
>Fixed pronouns on Spellburst Scholar to match the image

I'm beginning to notice a major downside to doing my homebrew in pretty PDFs like this.

Any magic items good for boosting the Professions skill?

ioun stones and masterwork tools

Thank you for being awesome, Forrest!

So I wonder, were the black and white mage outfits from final fantasy based on folklore or another game?

Wait, you're not 2hu.

black mage is your typical wizard robe and hat

white mage is based off of miko/priest attire

>miko
vocaroo.com/i/s1vfO2ghveG9

I don't get what you're trying to say here, why are you posting a link?

People other than 2hu can post touhou, user.

Glad you like it.

So Magpie and Aspirant are quite clearly Touhou and Gundam, but what's the Scholar inspired-by?

>People other than 2hu can post touhou, user.
I don't think so. I think Forrest actually is 2hu in disguise.

>I think Forrest actually is 2hu in disguise.
2hu is a worthless shitter who ruins threads with RAWtism and builds. Forrest is better.

Scholar is inspired by 3.5's blastificer builds. First name is one I made up. Last name is one of my favorite characters from Tower of God.

2hu is too good at 4e to be me.

>2hu is too good at 4e to be me.
Jeeze, have a little modesty, 2hu.

>4e
Now why does it matter to be good at a dead edition?

Because people are allowed to enjoy games even if they're not popular.

>4e
Don't you mean Strike!?

No really I would have been lost without their help building my last 4e character.

Dunno! I regularly play 3.5 and PF (though less 3.5 now since I've had to cancel my game), play 4e when I can, play 5e if my group feels like it, and have played all sorts of oddball systems and unholy mashups.

The financial success of a game matters a lot less to me than if it's fun. Thus far, the most fun campaigns I've been in were 4e, 3.5, and d20 modern/d20 future/Naruto d20/urban arcana/some 3.5, but I quite enjoy all sorts of systems.

No I meant 4e. I got their help building an ancient Egyptian refrigerator robot wardrone.

webmenco.de/videos/D5lUvjvXn4E-pKLb 4QfJ84.alice.webm
I guess my joke was too obscure.

Here you go.

I know, I was just teasin'

Daily reminder that 2hu is totally shit at writing and hasn't made anything of value. No homebrew, no 3pp, fucking nothing.

The funny was too obscure too. I'm still looking for it.

Oi, fuck off. Nobody but you gives a shite.

Hey Forrest! With all this homebrew, I've been wondering. What's the first thing you homebrewed and posted? How bad was it?

What crawled up your ass user god damn

If the Scholar is meant to have a blastificer feel, it should really get Craft Wand and Craft Staff for free in addition to the metamagics, and some means of both cost reduction for consumable item crafting (in time and funds), and a way to use Wands like Staves (even if it's just handing them the Wizard discovery), and a better way to recharge Staves (1 staff charge per day per CHARACTER makes staves shit, Paizo. Fuck.), and a way to both consume additional charges for greater power.

But that's just what I think.