/wmh/ Warmachine and Hordes General

Molik Karn

pMorghoul

>Visually
Blindwalker

>Gameplay
Old Witch

conflictchamber.com/#b61b_-089p9q5Z7g60626ggK7A7m7yfi

Mercenary Army - 74 / 75 points

(Damiano 1) Captain Damiano [+28]
- Rocinante [18]
- Nomad [11]
Greygore Boomhowler & Co. (max) [17]
Steelhead Halberdiers (max) [11]
Steelhead Heavy Cavalry (max) [18]
Steelhead Riflemen (max) [14]
Stannis Brocker [0]
Kell Bailoch [0]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [0]
Sergeant Nicolas Verendrye [4]
Rangers [9]

>visually ?
Shredder
>gameplay wise ?
Absylonia

You can take Rocinante in that theme list?

He has a bond with damiano, it's in the bonded rules in prime somewhere.

oh wow. I thought that rule died. They just took it off cards then?

>Kingmaker's
>No Trenchers
>No Buccanneer to make Damiano immune to ranged/magic assassinations forever

Bro what are you even doing?
The dirty little secret to Damiano is that Steelheads aren't actually that good even with him, sure as shit not as good as Trenchers.

You're probably also better off with min Boomhowlers, ambushing a full 10-man unit of medium based dudes is a pain, and they're basically just there for that one turn of flank threat anyway.

Try Croes, Damiano fixes their accuracy problem with Deadeye.

How does a buccaneer do that?

Did you even bother reading the theme benefits?

It gives all your dudes Feign Death. The Bucc can follow him around knocking him on his ass with the net so your opponent is never allowed to target him with ranged or magic attacks, ever.

Just don't be an idiot and walk into a spray assassination because you forgot he can still target other stuff and catch you in the template.

That makes sense. Not totally sold on croes vs pow 13 rifles though.

Pow 13 rifles that die horribly when anything looks at them funny. That's the problem with Steelhead rifles, they just fucking die.

Trenchers are your mid-pow shooting, CRA in 2-man pods if you need POW13. They also tend not to die easily because of native Tough and Cautious Advance.

Cankerworm. He's such a creepy little model, and gameplay wise he exemplifies what I want in a Cryx 'Jack - fast, maneuverable, hard-hitting but unable to win in a stand-up fight.

>visually

Kodiak Heavy Jack

>gameplay

Holy Zealots

Not sure how many people read the fluff, but if you had to pick one faction to steamroll everyone else somehow and begin some sort of world domination who would be your pick and how would they do it?

Skorne forever

Cyriss. Everyone should worship interstellar math goddesses.

>Thread on forums asking for them to make more Lanyssa and AA models, since they've become such auto-includes
>After they made a big deal about ensuring models didn't become auto-includes

It's a great time to be alive.

You're bad and you should feel bad.

I like the way that they replaced cryx with cygnar after talking about balance.

In their defense, I don't think Cyngar represents such a meta bending threat as Cryx did.

Really zealots, even after this edition killed them?

You'd be surprised, it's sort of the exact thing in the opposite direction.

Cryx chased living infantry off the table, and rewarded support bloat (or at least, didn't punish it). Cygnar is doing the reverse of that pretty well; go bullet catchers R us or go bust.

I don't see lists losing support through, not that much. Maybe it's not half your list anymore, but it's not like people aren't taking that shit.

>Character jack/beasts can be included with their warnoun in theme lists if they have a bond
>Merc and minions warnouns can be used in any theme list for factions if they're Partisans

Neat, learn something new everyday.

original, metal jugg

ice axe gon' get you

whadaya mean "bullet catchers r us"?
you mean gunlines?

He means instead of running your army on several key pieces, just flooding the board with models that can survive being shot and that you don't care if they die.

IE, like jack spam.

How does Menoth play in mk3?
I have:
Durst
pSevy
eKreoss
pReznik

Jacks:
Avatar, 2x Reckoner, FoS/Crusader, Vanquisher, Vigilant, Revenger, Repenter, Devout
Units
Choir
Exemplar Bastions (rip?)
KEE+UA
3x KE
TFG
Solos:
2x KES, Covenant, Vassal
Rhupert.

My Old go to for 50 points was either Crusaders of Sul tier 4 or psevy with errant star and jacks.

I'm not sure how to translate the old 50 into 75 and from what I see it wouldn't even be effective. Any Tips or advice?

It means that in order to get something - anything - through the sort of firepower Cygnar and chums can put out, your only option is flooding the board with cheap trash. Anti-shooting tech doesn't work because True Sight and anti-stealth abilities are extremely common, support-heavy lists don't work because key pieces can be easily picked off, and more elite armies don't have the numbers necessary to get across the board intact.

>Visually

Mountain King

>Gameplay

Ragnor

>It means that in order to get something - anything - through the sort of firepower Cygnar and chums can put out...
Are you sure you're talking about Cygnar and not Khador or Ret? Cause their ranged game is MUCH stronger.

Such good chums, then. Upstaging the front-runner.

>Such good chums, then. Upstaging the front-runner.

I'm talking about all three. It doesn't really matter if the guns pointed at you are red, blue, or white when you're trying to charge into them.

Khador and Ret has a burst of highly effective fire. They don't sustain a firefight like Cygnar does and skew towards it on a consistent basis.

Cygnar is the boogeyman of the meta because they play so unusually compared to everything else in the game. Cygnar's always been the consistent number two in the game because they always had answers when number 1 would start stomping around.

Unless Cygnar is building strange (which is to say, Stryker), they DON'T HAVE another plan. So if you can say No to ranged, you say No to Cygnar, and Bad Play Experience happens for the entire Cygnar faction.

PP deserves the endpoint of this situation.

Well, Lanyssa is off-design threat extension, what's the other one?

Alten Ashley

Who is just broken as fuck.

tiebreak.co.uk/warmachine-and-hordes-uk-nationals/stats

...as many Skorne as convergence :(

Well, at least we have the best win record.

>this is probably why PP thinks Skorne is doing fine- the handful of players that are sticking with it know how to play it

I don't think anyone beyond Circle(who can just block LoS) doesn't have the tools to deal with him.

He's most certainly an auto include, but I wouldn't define him as broken.

by definition, by being auto includes, they are broken.

...but Tiberion IS my shield-guard, user-sama!

That's actually pretty funny, I think.

Huh. Swan sweep.

So then choir, beast handlers, and krielstone are broken?

If you didn't need to take 26+ points of jacks then choir wouldn't be an auto include.

Broken is only measured by their power per points ratio.

All Broken units are auto-includes, but not all auto-includes are broken.

If the Skorne community ever bounces back from the first 6 months of mk3, it's going to be a fucking weird group. Talk about a bottleneck; it'll be reforming around a cadre of toxic pessimists that are pretty much just hate-fucking their toys.

krielstone are hardly auto includes

I haven't bothered to play my skorne in mk3, I went back to khador. But I'm still holding on to my models until after the theme forces drop. They may make shit playable.

Ok, so I've kinda been thinking of getting into warmachine. I currently play 40k, so I'm wondering how the two compare price wise and model count wise? Also, 40k rules are a shit show, how does WM play in comparison?

Khador Army - 62 / 75 points

(Sorscha 1) Kommander Sorscha [+29]
- Behemoth [24]
- Rager [11]
- Reinholdt, Gobber Speculator [4]
Winter Guard Rifle Corps (min) [8]
- Winter Guard Rocketeer (3) [6]
Widowmaker Scouts [8]
Widowmaker Marksman [4]
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios [7]
Harlan Versh, Illuminated One [4]
Kell Bailoch [5]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Alten Ashley [5]

13 points left. I was thinking either Doom Reavers, or Great Bears + Iron Fang Kovnik. What do you think?

Doomreavers.

You need something to eat bullets to the face.

Model count's lower... say half a Spessmuhreen army. The eventual price will even out although starting cost is lower.

Cheaper to get into, probably looking at similar costs in the long run.

I much prefer the rules in WM, but you should check it out for yourself. The rules are free for download and you can watch this tutorial video to get an idea for how it plays: youtube.com/watch?v=nGJqSUoJscU

So like, how big is the average army? Ballpark on startup?

I'm reading the rules now

A full-sized 75 point army is going to be a warcaster/warlock, 2-4 warbeasts/warjacks, 1 10 man unit (occasionally 2, rarely 3), maybe 1 or 2 4 to 6 man units, and a couple of solos.

Startup is a $40 box with a warcaster and 2-3 warbeasts/warjacks, and then around $40 for a unit and a few $10 solos. There are 2 player boxes that have 2 faction starter boxes plus a 10 man unit for each for $90 total, and is one of the best ways to start the game if you can find someone to split it with.

So speaking of the 2p box, are stormguard worth having?

$150 for a starting army at 75pts, though I would STRONGLY recommend starting small and working up as the learning curve is STEEP.

Warcaster, 2-4 jacks/beasts, two units and a few solos is basically every army, though it varies with faction and warcaster.

Don't expect ANY customisation of models as per 40k. Physically or in the rules. Or fluff really. The main attraction of this game is the ruleset and it makes no pretentions otherwise.

What is more interesting here is that they consider Cryx to be more playable than Retribution.

I'm in the same boat as . For me, there's just something satisfying about blowing shit up.

>taking Winter Guard without Joe

C'mon now, what do you think you're going to hit with those RAT 5 rockets?

It's pSorscha.

Frozen stuff, and with range 14 I often get chances to aim with them. And rat 5 will still hit a lot of warjacks.

Great, they still need to do work before and after your feat turn.

What's your opinion on the hellmouth? Because the thing doesn't need to be in every list, but shit is busted as fuck. There's no 6pt module in the entire game that can trade effectively against it.

They got CRA. Only WG unit that NEEDS Joe is WGI.

Riflecorp get better yes obviously, but it's not a requirment

Freezing Grip.

Also, aiming is a thing. And the high ARM stuff you really want the boosted 12's for tends to be lower DEF anyway.

>tiebreak.co.uk/warmachine-and-hordes-uk-nationals/stats
Cryx has a proven aesthetic (zombie pirates).
On the other hand, Ipod elf terrorists and persian bdsm circus are obviously going to be less popular

Unless I'm shooting at warpwolves or something, an aimed 7 is fine. And I'd rather not drop versh for joe because purgation and blessed is highly fucking relevant in my meta. Lot of cygnar using troop buffs.

It's fucking nationals you retard. No one takes an army based on looks, they take it based on it's ability to win.

It is OP. I say this as a Legion player.
I also say this as someone that knows they will get nerfed.

I'm also quitting Legion. Not because of impending doom, but because the faction feels incomplete and fragile without pieces like the Hellmouth.

Rockets can't CRA. They also don't do as much damage to warjacks as the whiners would have you believe.

Depends on what you mean by "requirement". He's so criminally undercosted for what he does that the only legitimate reason for not taking him is you just want to be a hipster.

>Freezing Grip.
>Also, aiming is a thing.
Neither really help against something as simple as dug-in infantry, who will be DEF17 and thus Sorcha will miss them 50% of the time even on a boost, and even aiming they'd need a 3-man CRA just to brain one Trencher on 7s.

You gonna pop your feat just to clear an infantry screen?

Look man not everyone is a whaacfag.

Your core pieces are fine though. ravagores are ravagores and angels are angels.

Horde does feel very uncomfortable to build. I build my khador list and I feel happy with the list only to discover that I still have 12-15 pts left over.
Hordes list building always have me scrambling to figure out what I can live without.

They do enough damage given their criminally low cost.

Well, if she misses 50% of the time while boosting, Reinholdt gives her a reroll.

But you're right, the list does have a vulnerability to high def blast immune infantry. And vs def 17 a boosted shot from rat 5 is still going to miss.

I'm not saying they're bad, they ARE really good. But the dude said he's going to be shooting at DEF 12 heavies and they don't give a fuck about 3 boosted POW 12s

You take the rockets because with Joe they're super accurate solo/UA deleters. Not jack wreckers.

>And vs def 17 a boosted shot from rat 5 is still going to miss.
But you're aiming, remember? You said it yourself.

>Biggest tournament in the country
>Have to win multiple tournaments to be able to attend

I'm sure people are running their casual lists with PStryker.

Stealth will also wreck it.

It's not unbeatable. Reinholdt will unstealth single high priority targets, or if it's a large number of stealth infantry then the blasts can do some work. It really depends on the setup.

def 12 heavies are usually sitting at arm 18s naturally and likely arm 20s. It's enough that such a long ranged single shot guns can scratch paint at all for only 2 pts each.

Also it's not like Khador doesn't have means of buffing up that gun damage.

>It doesn't really matter if the guns pointed at you are red, blue, or white when you're trying to charge into them.
It does. Against Cygnar shooting you can just take a bunch of heavies and be fine. Doesn't work against Khador/Ret.

>Khador and Ret has a burst of highly effective fire. They don't sustain a firefight like Cygnar does and skew towards it on a consistent basis.
So Khador/Ret suddenly lose their guns top of three? Nice to know.
>Cygnar's always been the consistent number two in the game because they always had answers when number 1 would start stomping around.
Yeah, that number one is at the bottom of the field now. And Cygnar has quite the weakness against the new numbers one and two (and three if we're counting Circle purely as an attachment to Wormwood).

I think you're massivly over-estimating what the WGRC+Rockets can do. Especially a minimum unit without Joe.

But it's your decision so knock yourself out.

I think it's more to do with the fact that like nobody owned Ret outside of Australia in Mk2, and everyone owned Cryx.

So even after the mass-exodus a lot of people still have Cryx, and since nobody owned Ret they're harder to faction-hop to than something like Cygnar or Khador which tons of people owned even if they didn't play them in Mk2.

>Against Cygnar shooting you can just take a bunch of heavies and be fine.

I play Cryx, if the source of my butthurt isn't obvious. My 'heavies' are glorified lights that die to small arms fire.

The real take-away from this is that Trolls had the only 0-7 player. Disgraceful.

Also top 3 top kek:
>Cygnar, Cygnar, Cygnar

You under estimate the band wagoning that went on at the end of MKII and the leaks. People saw Ret and shit themselves, mass bought the faction.

And yet they all disappeared when tourney time happened.

Don't get me wrong, 5th from the bottom on the attendance list is a big step up for Ret, but I think you're overstating how many people seriously adopted the faction.