Basing your hero/villain on Mother Theresa

As far as I know, child slavery and money laundering

Catholics, Calvinists, Anglicans, Baptists, Anabaptists, Pentecostals, the Orthodox and Eastern Churches, everyone except the Lutherans is going straight to hell.

>only the crazy cults
everyone outside of america views mormonism as a crazy cult
You don't actually have to force people into marriages to be considered a crazy cult.
It's sufficient that you believe blatantly crazy stuff, have blatantly crazy practices, and are an offshoot from an actually major religion, with your own fanfictions interspersed with it.

Catholicism would be a crazy cult were there not this many people following it.

>everyone except the Lutherans is going straight to hell.
As a Lutheran myself....
No.

>mormons
>not a crazy cult

Friendly reminder the Mormons used to attack and murder non Mormon settlers passing into Utah and had to be suppressed by the united states army.

Mother Theresa believed suffering to be a divine connection to God, and as such did not believe in providing pain medication to patients. She did not really provide medical care to her patients, just 'care', affection, and prayer - people were cleaned and sores dressed, but little medication was given, contagious patients were not separated, and honest attempts at revitalization were not made. It was purely spiritual healing in focus, and suffering was a part of that.

Theresa did not launder her money, she used it - just not for humanitarian aid. She used it for missionary work, which she saw as the ultimate in humanitarian aid. As a hardline Catholic she opposed abortion, female emancipation, and divorce. She would stealth baptise dying patients without their knowledge, understanding, or consent.

She's the textbook definition of an evil person who believes themselves to be good. In her eyes, everything was justified because she was saving souls and bringing people closer to God.

If your beliefs are corrupted by Satan you're going to join him.

Everyone outside America doesn't know anything about Mormanism, and most people in America knows nothing about Mormanism.

So the character lives in a favela ridden with disease?

In terms of original christian beliefs it's
Coptic>Orthodox>>Catholic>>>>>all the crazy protestant heretics

>If your beliefs are corrupted by Satan you're going to join him.
Lutherans don't actually believe catholicism to be the work of the devil.
That's something a catholic would say.

>southpark
also mormon missionaries.

Good question is whether you'd consider her a hero or a villain in your campaign. She loved to "help" the dying by making them feel loved as she watched them die and didn't actually treat them with medical aid.

When she needed help, she went to USA and had proper doctors treat her.

Neutral Good?
Lawful Evil?

You decide, Veeky Forums.

Discussing Religion never ends up well anywhere, even on here. Can we all please agree to disagree and not try to shove shit down each others throats and make something of this thread?

>hurr durr we have our own pope but he's not actually infallible, whoops
>hurr durr we have loads of our own books which are totally as canonical
>hurr durr we celebrate jesus' circumcision
Yeah nah copts are edgy as fuck.

Lawful Evil, if we're going by strict D&D defintions.

By theological definition... still evil. Jesus came and healed the sick and relieved the suffering. The true test of any CHRISTian is to emulate CHRIST. Suffering for one's faith and being steadfast in the plan of God is part of that, yes, but so is forgiving your enemy, helping the sick and poor be NOT SICK and NOT POOR (Jesus explicitly fed the poor and gave them food) and made no ethical or spiritual demands except that people follow him or his example.

>>hurr durr we have our own pope but he's not actually infallible, whoops
that actually sounds perfectly reasonable, a whole hell of a lot more than believing in an infallible mortal.

Because the Catholics give tradition as strong a weight as the Holy Bible itself, and tradition is made up by men many of whom were evil, it's a shitty state of affairs. I was exaggerating about Satan but Catholicism really fucked up.

And that's why copts are the "truest" christians. All the other cults are cucked and watered down as fuck.

If 'watering down' means removing stupid things like circumcision then I'm all for it.

Theresa was essentially a zealot. She believed strongly in her cause and thought it to be good, heedless of the reality of the situation. She was also hugely shameless in pulling publicity stunts and accepting money even from infamous criminals. So long as she could keep the holy suffering going, she would think herself good.

Perhaps her most lasting legacy are the people who still consider her a saint. People who casually mention Mother Theresa as if she's some paragon of good intention unlike Mr. Rodgers, the REAL incarnate paragon of good without reading into her actual history; the kinds of people that bought the very hype she was selling about herself without looking too closely at it.

>Can we all please agree to disagree
No. If this thread triggers you then you can always hide it like a little bitch. The rest of us are mature enough to ignore those who don't contribute to a mature discussion, to accept valid arguments from the other side and switch sides if we can no longer defend our position.

The religion we're discussing is Catholocism, not Islam, so there's no need to self-censor.

They are pretty cool.
I recently went to an event where they had a sacred limb of a saint with my family.
One of the people guarding the mummified hand in all fancy clothes suddenly turned around and greeted my father.
Turns out he's a fellow astrophysicist and world class in the field of stellar dynamics.

In his free time he's one of the people who guard these holy relics.

Anyway my point was that only a catholic would say something as self obsessed that some other faith is heresy and the work of the personified devil.

Friendly reminder that frontier America was extremely tribal and violent.

Was sometimes the case, but was never really as bloody as westerns make it out to be. I mean, if things were THAT bad, who would ever want to set out for it? It was hard enough trying to live on the frontier, and they didn't need a bunch of people shooting other people and making it more difficult. And, well, the kinds of people who did go around murdering people ended up pretty swiftly being murdered themselves.

And systematically murdering everyone coming through your territory is pretty out there even for the frontier.

She's side character in Requiem: Chevalier Vampire - one of Ghoul Pirate leaders.

In the setting, Ghouls are afterlife incarnation of hypocrites that have done great evil in life while believing they are doing good.

Huh? Which one? There was a nun that sold orphans, but I don't remember her being mother Theresa.

Get educated and don't fall for propaganda

youtube.com/watch?v=65JxnUW7Wk4

You are a fool if you think God would abandon anyone who is pure of heart, no matter their faith.

Its not even about believing at all, it is about being filled with God's love; even if you don't know it.

the bottom line of every religion is 'don't be a dick', stick to that and you should get along fine

>church
>not the weakest link/unneeded middle-man in your personal relationship with God
Good joke, anons, good joke.
You either believe in God (or Gods), or you don't.

Subjecting your personal beliefs to an arbitrary dogmatism inflicted by an institution that claims that it has some sort of "connection" to your personal God (which is yours and yours only, mind you) is extremely narrow-minded.

Church and its rituals are unneeded to practice your faith.

These guys get it.

Just... No.

In order to receive salvation, you must accept Jesus Christ into your heart. If you believe in a false Jesus then you are in trouble.

>Just... No.
So... be a dick?

>If you believe in a false Jesus then you are in trouble.
Isn't that definition of anti-christ? He will appear a false savior.

Well, there's a saying that you are what you eat.

theres no religion that will stop you from being one of those fuckers who parks across two spaces or takes half a minute to start after the lights change

The antichrist appears at the apocalypse. I don't think that has started yet but maybe it has. Is there a charismatic influential leader who the entire world is kneeling before yet, retending to offer gifts only God can?

>or takes half a minute to start after the lights change
on the contrary, most if not all religion advises you to take longer if the one behind you have different religion.

actually, Amish will excommunicate you for the latter, unless you're starting a horse carriage

No, the anti-christ is THE false jesus. Regular messiah con-men are just like false prophets, dime a dozen and not nearly as big a threat.

>Is there a charismatic influential leader who the entire world is kneeling before yet, retending to offer gifts only God can?
Pope said that "God builds bridges, not walls" so I guess we don't have to worry yet.

We better cancel all bridge projects and build tunnels instead, just to be on the safe side.

Holy shit!
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kerch_Strait_Bridge

Jesus was all along in your heart. You must only realize it, and with it, find the divine within your soul.

Jesus isn't found in books, but in the world around you, for it's God's world.

Explore it. When you do, you'll find compassion, selflessness and wonder. Wonder towards creation, wonder towards the light each soul can nurture from a spark into a blinding radiance.

Then you'll have found your place in God's work and be at peace. Only then Jesus will truly be with you.

Only Syria and Russia is barely kneeling before Putin, I doubt that he will ever be an anti-christ.

>Nature worshiping paganism masquerading as Christendom: The post.

Isn't that just a Gnostic?

Whoa there son. God inspired the Bible. It's his Word passed down to us. You may have noticed we think the book is pretty important, and that's why.

God created the world and it's pretty great. But christianity is not pantheism. God created and existed before the universe, he is not the same thing as the universe.

So many things are labelled gnosticism these days. AFAIK the only thing the gnostic sects had in common was the search for gnosis, the emphasis on the third-level part of a human being (the bit made of divine wisdom, sometimes the holy spark) which exists in all of us but must be cultivated to reach its full potential and set you on the path to become one with God.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
lutherans are pretty much the only christians going straight to hell

>Whoa there son. God inspired the Bible. It's his Word passed down to us

Key word inspired, it's not infallible. It was an oral tradition passed down by a bunch of asshole raiders and sheep fuckers living in the desert, then co-opted by the Romans who imposed their own arbitrary definitions of what was or wasn't gospel on it. The Bible has been in flux since it was a concept, and has changed with every iteration and translation. It is not infallible.

People who treat religion as an instruction manual to follow by rote rather than a mirror we hold up to examine ourselves and our behavior are the problem.

How much do you know of the roots of Christendom?

Because I'll tell you this much, it was nothing like today's incarnation of it. Not the Catholics, Lutherans nor the Orthodoxy come even close.

Today's Christendom is nothing but a shadow, the mutated product of the men who interpreted Christ's vision for humanity; normally with the best of intentions I might add.

Unfortunately not all of them. There were a lot of wicked men with only their self-interest at heart. That is why in the modern world, there is no true Christendom.

That is why faith must be seeked, taken and defined on your own terms. Faith needs to be given form, individualized so that it may be at its truest, and with it, Cheistendom is reborn as it was meant to be.

>People who treat religion as an instruction manual to follow by rote rather than a mirror we hold up to examine ourselves and our behavior are the problem.

Would it be better if the religion's sacred book was a mirror scroll?

>seeked
sought

Lots of fedoras tipping in here.

I wouldn't be surprised if she was getting off on the suffering.

>God inspired the Bible
There lies the key. Unlike Muslims', our Holy Book isn't the literal word of God. It has gone through unfathomable ammount of edits and translations. Things were taken out, things were taken in, some were attempted to be clarified to the point its now the product of man. The loose recollection of what we think we know of God, clouded by time.

It still holds truth if you are sharp enough to seize it, but the thing is, to this day, God still speaks to us. You must not let the Bible absorb you to the point you cannot hear His word, to the point you can't see the subtlety with which He manifests at the most crucial moments.

Are we still calling people who are angry against Christianity fedoras? A lot of them feel betrayed because they were never given any choice about what to believe, so they're revolting against what they've been told. Christians should be willing to listen to their concerns and help them work out how religion can work for them personally.

Srry, I'm a spic and get things mixed up every now and then.

The Qu'ran was given to Mohammed by Gabriel but it was only compiled in written form a few years after his death by the first caliph. It has quite an interesting early history and it seems there could have been a few early versions but the one promoted by the caliph became the standard and the others disappeared.

np, english past participles are fucking weird

The catholic Church accepts evolution and has a favorable view of science as long as it isn't stem cells research and shit like that, also the Pope even said that anyone who lives a good life can go to heaven even if he isn't a Catholic, I'm an ex-catholic fag and atheist now but still can't let you spout these uneducated opinions about the Church.

Basically it's a Lawful Good Aligned death cult leader - a bit like the Dustmen but without that whole plan of skaal's to end the universe by raising every single entity in it as awakened undead of various kinds,

>Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p123a9p3.htm

Stem cell research is okay, as long as it isn't from an aborted fetus, because, you know, abortion.

There is always an Antichrist somewhere in the world; we just haven't reached the last one.

The Devil knows not the day nor the hour that judgement shall come, and so the parts and pieces of the apocalypse are always present, waiting for God's hand to set them in motion. The Devil is eager for the time of his promised dominion to come, because he still believes he can take the upper hand afterwards, so he is always trying to nudge the beginning of the end into motion.

...

My crusader sense is tingling!

Literally what missionary work is, user. The new pope is cool but here is a lot of history before his more reasonable doctrine.

>and the others disappeared
Were burned by Uthman. Uthman was the earliest Qu'ran burner in history yet this doesn't trigger Muslims even though it should trigger them harder than that preacher in Bumfuck nowhere, Florida a few years ago.

Is the devil rebelling against god and not just being another angel doing its job canon to the bible?

I believe Mother Terror.

Reminder that in original Qu'ran three pre-islamic goddesses were praised.

>also the Pope even said that anyone who lives a good life can go to heaven even if he isn't a Catholic,
Stop that. You're twisting the Pope's word again.

Yes, i'm out to eat your babies. Also D&D makes you a satanist and if you play video games you hate women.

So we meet again, demon.

I will drag you back into the abyss from whence you came.

Seriously though where did I leave my whiskey?

That varies depending on the canon in question.

From an absolute unbiased "ignorant atheist who decided to take a careful read of the Bible" perspective, it's not strictly defined whether the Serpent in Eden, the Prosecutor who appears to Jesus in the desert, and the Beast of the End of Days are the same figure.
What is certain that the Serpent tempted Eve as an act against God, and the Beast acts in (proscribed) rebellion against God; both act in defiance of God's will first and foremost, though God permits their actions because they are part of the larger plan. While the Beast is indeed given dominion over the Earth by God's Word, the manner in which it does so is of its own volition. Since it seizes the opportunity to demand worship for itself, it clearly is not simply an obedient actor of God's will carrying out His plan.
The Prosecutor in the desert could go either way, depending on interpretation. At no point does he actually DO anything himself to violate God's will; he only advocates are argues.

The key traits of the general perception of The Devil are a combination of features from all three; the malevolent lord of evil (the Beast) who tempts into rebellion against God (the Serpent) but cannot force humans to do so (the Prosecutor).

While there is obvious similarity between the three that can support the interpretation that they are all Satan/Lucifer, the single entity, the Bible does not outright state anything to the effect of "Then came the Beast, who was Satan who rebelled, and the Serpent of Eden, and the tempter of Jesus."

>woman lives in literal hell on earth
>builds wharehouse where terminally ill people belonging to an untouchable caste can go to die with a roof over their heads and someone holding their hands
>she is somehow evil

Satan is actually the good guy.

Thanks user, that was a clearer explanation than I was expecting.

>woman lives in literal hell on earth
>builds warehouse where ill people belonging to an untouchable caste can go to die in agony from preventable causes
>gets shittons of money from outside sources, more than enough to stock basic antibiotics and painkillers, but actively refuses to ease any of the suffering or treat any of the illnesses
>she is somehow good

Yeah ikr?

Also Hitchens was a pseudointellectual retard who got famous only for being a petulant child who couldn't handle diffing opinions.

>die in agony from preventable causes
But no one cared about these people, they would just die in a ditch otherwise, her only desire was to give a semblance of dignity to them at their last moments.

>elects not to inform treatable cases that they could be saved, instead allowing them to die falsely believing in the inevitably of their death
>allows patients, some who might yet recover, to be exposed to contagious cases, putting them at risk of infections which may complicate their illness into a fatal condition, because she ultimately expects and desires all of them to die
>actively avoids easing their passage in a non-emotional sense, such as with painkillers or corrective treatment
>violates patient's right to freely choose their beliefs by baptizing without knowledge or consent, an act further contrary to the fundamental principles of Christianity itself, because she did so with the intention to "save" those who have not chosen to accept Christ into their heart, as though the act of sprinkling water were somehow powerful in and of itself rather than solely for the decision it symbolizes; literally heretical
>when she herself becomes ill, hypocriticly seeks professional medical treatment

Pic related in my post is a man that revealed some pretty shady things about Mother Teresa, Christopher Hitchens was a pretentious drunk but he was swag as fuck. I would totally play him in a setting where a Teresa like npc was the BBEG

Pain and suffering have come into your life, but remember pain, sorrow, suffering are but the kiss of Nurg*hacklingcough*Jesus.

Mother Teresa

One of the clear forerunners to why following news media is a pursuit of the ill informed and angry. Poorly researched strong opinions spoken from an ivory tower of privilege with charisma and appealing prose feeding the masses that care more about confirming what they want than speaking to any sort of truth.

>But no one cared about these people
Exactly. No-one cared enough to save their lives, or even if they were saved at all. Theresa certainly didn't care if they lived, since she had the means to save many of them and elected not to.

>"Oh sweet Mother, you are so kind to these poor downtrodden souls, who have noone to turn to in their time of need. Please, accept this donation to further your good works."
>proceeds to spend donations on things that aren't saving the lives of said poor downtrodden souls, who continue to die preventable deaths

As if the truth even matters. We're surrounded by so many lies and half truths, at this stage, that it's all just for shits and giggles anyway.

Those pesky things like rent and orphans!

She did exactly what she said she would, I don't believe she is a saint but you can't say that she is evil because she didn't do what you belive she should have.
The fact that she would just give an spoon of soup to a sick man while talking about Jesus instead of trying to find an hospital that would accept him may be less than stelar behaviour, but isn't evil.

>I don't believe she is a saint
You should look again. She was canonized today.