What exactly is a fighter?

The pinnacle of incompetence OR a Martial Defender OR the one guy in the party who really knows how to wield a weapon and later an army.

A way to get sweeping attacks.

GOD FUCKING DAMN IT I JUST CAME IN TO MAKE THIS EXACT JOKE

good job

Just another client waiting for their sentence to be carried out.

>edition wars are a thing that games actually win/lose
>edition wars aren't just a name people use to deride people who actually give a shit about which edition is "better"

/v/ plz leave

Dude who fights. Mostly without magic.

Which is an incredibly dumb concept in a world full of magical weapons and useful combat spells.

A believable d&d martial artist would be a mixture of gish and monk, a master of all warfare, rather than an ineffectual pleb being autistic about one single aspect of it.

Someone who becomes more and more defined with each new addition as former archetypes are moved into their own classes; for better (Barbarians) or worse (fucking Samurai).

An archetype meant to emulate most Sword & Sorcery protagonists but ended up being shoehorned into "The guy who fights and can ONLY fight." in later editions.

I like to think of them more as men at arms myself. But its open to interpretation

...

An elite warrior, a master of any weapon he picks up. His training and experience with armor allows him to endure blows that would severely wound, if not cripple or outright kill others. With time, his skill with weapons and his toughness become superhuman in scope, rising far above the common man.

Someone awesome enough to use swordchucks.

Party gimp. Mildly better than a henchman but costs a lot more (quarter of the party gold & XP) Can carry lots but eventually outclasses by a mule/ bag of holding.

Not really, magic is usually very difficult to obtain. Unless your born with it, like a sorcerer, attaining magic requires highly specialised training that takes years to complete and that's if you have the aptitude and have someone willing to teach you, or a pact/bond with some higher power. None of these things are particularly common in most d&d worlds, it's just that we view the world through the lens of the PCs who are the 0.1% of the population who have access to these things.

Something so vague and poorly-defined that it shouldn't even exist, or should at least be divided into separate classes that are better defined in both role and style.

If I had my way, fighter as a class wouldn't exist, and would be replaced by:
>Archer
>Knight
>Warlord
>Weapon Master
And probably others.

And right from the start they'd be allowed to accomplish superhuman feats of skill, strength, and agility. In writing them, I'd take inspiration from mythic heroes like Bhishma, Arjuna, Cadmus, Bellerophon, Perseus, Sigurd, Beowulf, Gilgamesh, Cúchulainn, and others. If you play a warrior in my games, you're not Joe Average the Town Guard, or Stubble McGritty the veteran soldier, you're a good and proper hero.

> it's just that we view the world through the lens of the PCs who are the 0.1% of the population who have access to these things
Like a PC fighter is?

Fighter is not a random mong with a sword. That's the warrior, a NPC class. Fighter is supposed to be able to fight, not just sit on his ass until a wizard comes along to buff him and give him 20+ magic items. If a fighter needs these things so badly that he can't do his job without them, he should be able to do them himself, at least on a rudimentary level.

You mean........

Fighters?

SHIT

What I'm saying is that most of the world doesn't have magic. The wizard is exceptional because he is one of the few people who has access to it. the fighter PC is exceptional because of his natural talent and fighting skill. Just because they are both exceptional doesn't mean they both have access to the same things, the wizard is a just as good at sword fighting as the fighter is at casting spells. Also, my original post was in reply to a person who claimed that simply focusing on martial skill was "autistic" on the part of the fighter, the main point of my post was to refute that by claiming that in a world that's 99% mundane, it's not at all odd to fight using mundane methods.

As a side note, I think part of the misunderstanding here is related to editions. I'm thinking in terms of 5e where nobody really *needs* magic items to do their job and the wizard isn't likely to have them anymore than the fighter is.

Its kept vague so you have a good base to make a character whos main thing happens to be theyre good at fighting.

In a more balanced game system, he can.

someone who fights with swords and shit really good but doesn't have much else going for him

Dead.

Whats wrong with Constable McGritty?

Catch all term for a person or thing that is proficient with one or multiple forms of conventional combat (conventional being that of raw strength, agility and/or skill) able to be build as either a single focus specialist or a multitasker able to cover a broad spectrum of styles and roles within a group.

>The wizard is exceptional
And the Adept
And the Druid
and the Cleric
And the Paladin
And the Ranger
And the Warlock
And the list goes on.

Fighter is a badly designed class that doesn't really do anything it sets out to do.
If you limited the levels in Fighter to 3-4, and gave each level a feat bonus, it could be the start of something.

Someone who fights a lot?

A two level dip

What's the difference between a fighter and a paladin?

A Paladin is a crippled multiclass of Cleric and Fighter.
But still keeps enough class fun to not be shit

Paladin comes with a bundle of moralfaggotry, mostly of the OOC kind.

You know what? That's wrong.

Even in the most boring and crippling editions that force down this mundane idea of fighters, Fighters are still on the most basic level superhuman.

Level 1 fighters can go toe to toe with bears. That's something a master swordsman in real life in full well crafted plate armor is going to have an exceptionally tough time with.

So right from the get go we have Fighters breaking the "Realistic" standard, so fuck it, just let them scale like Wizards.

>Fighter is a badly designed class that doesn't really do anything it sets out to do.
Here's a homebrew class I made for 3e that does what I consider what an ideal fighter should be able to do in battle; strike down swathes of foes in a single blow and become legends who decapitate chimeras in a single blow.

And it's only 5 levels. Pick your favorite martial class to fill out the rest.

It's a stabby, shooty, slashy, punchy, tanky, featy kind of guy

>popularity = quality

No, but it does show who is actively playing the game more and how likely it is for you to find a group of willing players who understand the rules and will play with you.

I have a pretty hefty amount of RPGs with good systems, but fuckers won't take the time to learn them or even let me teach it to them over the course of a small adventure with pre-made characters. Instead, they all want to play D&D 5E.

I am thinking about selling all of my 3E D&D stuff as it mainly collects dust at this point and even if I sold it for just $2 a book, I could get over 500 bucks for the lot.

You could get $10-$15 easy.

A fighter is a brute force and skill focused member of the team who uses their martial prowess to overcome many foes quickly.

A paladin is the 'soul' of the team. Not only can he go toe-to-toe with a fighter and deal more damage per hit with enhanced attacks because of spells, in terms of raw constant damage the fighter is better. The paladin isn't a slouch when it comes to healing either, but a healing devoted cleric is better. A paladin's path can grant them many boons in combat to.

A paladin's main benefit though is, if played correctly, is to be the player to move the plot along, the guy who will consistently take up the call to action to help the people, and the charming character of such moral character that the NPCs actually can forgive the dipshits in the rest of the party for their fuckery in quests.

Unfortunately, give how honor heavy a paladin needs to the be, they will be one of the first ones to murder a party member for murder hoboing too hard.

So a Paladin, by your very definition is Fighter+

Pretty much.

Every single time the fighter in our group has dueled me (I am the paladin) because he is CN and can't stand me getting the party into shit over and over again and giving up my rewards of gold to charities and the needy he likes to pick fights.

Anyway, every single time he has fought me, I have reduced him to negative hit points in the first round of combat while he does alright damage to me.

>shit that never happens

Unless you're blatantly ahead of him in gear, and it sounds like you greedily hoard from the party, then yeah, I don't buy it. A Paladin blow for blow can't hit as hard as a fighter unless you're doing shit like blowing high level spells for a spat.

Oh, so you're playing 5e.
Why are you burning high-level spell slots on a party member?
Please tell me you're only spending your share on charity?

>States fighters are poorly defined
>Defines them in a single paragraph

A big gay

>party member challenges him to a duel for petty reasons
>has lost on several occasions
>Veeky Forums honestly expects him not to swat the arrogant fly

It's like you guys are fighter apologists or something.

There are better things to spend a paladin's damage on than a greedy retard.
Also, there's no guarantee that the paladin's story is 100% true. I'd be pissed if someone took half of the loot without asking, even if they did spend it on charity. It just shows a disregard for the opinions of everyone else in the party, even if I would have agreed had he simply asked.
I prefer Paladins as a sort of prestige for Fighters, to be honest, because it makes more sense that you should have to prove yourself morally capable and combat able before being granted the title.

A cleric without divine casting

You know spells recharge on a rest. Meaning the guy can blow his spells then rest easily, seeing as how a dueling setting implies they're not in the middle of a dungeon.

>I'd be pissed if someone took half of the loot without asking
The guy never said that, learn to read.

He said "his reward of gold" so it's entirely reasonable to think they divvied it up among themselves. It's his gold.

It's more like just that the fighter isn't getting the attention he wants because while he's saving everyone and looking down on them for getting in trouble like the antihero he is, the paladin is actually being a decent person in-game.

Besides, it sounds like the fighter has a problem with just going on quests provoked by the paladin in the first place.

Anyway, my original point was that even at level 2, a paladin can absolutely wreck (4d6+2d8+str) a fighter with a greatsword, thunderous smite, and divine smite in one go provided they're dueling in town after getting their gold and are ready for a day of rest.

That has the potential to be hideously broken early game and useless later. I thought you were trying to improve the fighter.
Also
>dandwiki.com
>ever

>WAAAA THE FIGHTER IS A MEANIE
>I'LL SAVE ALL MY SPELLS AT LEVEL 2 JUST SO I CAN BEAT HIM UP AND STEAL HIS GOLD

So you're a meta gaming chode who enjoys bullying people and pretending it's being a good paladin.

sounds like you're being a terrible person in-game and out of game m8y.

Someone with Great Cleavage?

A person skilled in the use of a wide assortment of weapons and armour but mainly focuses on one speciality that makes them excellent in combat.

And I said I didn't completely buy it. Unless the Fighter's 100% Grade A retard (a possibility), he has no reason to attack a paladin.
>It's more like just that the fighter isn't getting the attention he wants because while he's saving everyone and looking down on them for getting in trouble like the antihero he is, the paladin is actually being a decent person in-game.
>Besides, it sounds like the fighter has a problem with just going on quests provoked by the paladin in the first place.
This is probably the best explanation, though unless the Danger/Pay ratio is really high up there as well he still has no reason to do it. The only other reason I can think of is that he's mad as fuck the paladin generally out-damages him, which is also filed under R for Retard behavior.
Hello, Party Fighter.

Religious zealotry. Also, the DM rarely goes out if the way to fuck with bog-standard fighters constantly, Paladin is basically a polite way of saying colossal divine shit-magnet

>implying that is even me that told the story
>anyone that is CN is ever justified in their petty actions
>anyone said anything about stealing gold
>knowing damage output of a character is meta

Sounds like you're a would-be Batman angry at the world and the guy that's sincerely liked by the people at the table because paladin-bro is invested in the game and not his own power fantasy.

Look buddy; it's not my fault you're the one twisting stories on Veeky Forums trying to make yourself sound awesome and epic for beating a fighter at level 2.

You say it wasn't you yet you go into very detailed descriptions of everything and how it all works.

So that's either some pretty heavy autism or you're just here trying to flex your PnPeen.

>A level 20 full fighter can do 38 damage on average with a longsword, and can never leave his class
>A cleric can easily do 30 on average and only need to be a cleric for 14 levels

Fighters really need to use two handed weapons to really hold their own.

I know how it works because I'm a DM.
Have you even read the 5e handbook?
Have you even read the PF handbook?
Paladins are THE on-your-knees-knave class.
Fighters are literally only there to smack things reliably for a long time for mediocre damage.

It's like you don't even play games.

I hate to break it to you, but even 4 fighters together can still be taken out by a single bear(and a small one, at that). The weakest bear in 3.5, Normal size as opposed to the usual Large, and with terrible natural weapons compared to the other bears, WILL still rip a fighter apart, pin it to the ground and ride his ass to -10 HP with ease. That's not debatable.

Well, unless you're optimizing against a single foe and is playing in one of those games where you have like 3 18's as base stats. Then you might stand a chance against the weakest bear alive.

Sounds like someone is just reading shit they heard on the internet and pretending it's their entire game.

Fighters have been Workhorse tough motherfuckers in every game I have played while Paladins ALWAYS sizzle out.

Try again mr.Paladin.

>Fighters have been Workhorse tough motherfuckers in every game
Different user
Paladins get their second attack around the same time though. And fighter don't get their third for quite sometime.

I would say someone who could never afford the training at all, or some peasant who likely doe not even know how to read. The poor have to accomplish something and being a thief is not for everyone.

Besides their magical world means they can collect up a bunch of magical crap and use that instead. They can learn to swing a farmer's axe then eventually graduate up to a fiery sword, levitation cloak, and boots that make them walk on water.

>>Fighters have been Workhorse tough motherfuckers in every game
The more accurate word is Packmule

A class that's been carried all the way from first edition and no longer serves a purpose. It's a class that has the mission statement of "he can fight" in a game solely about combat where every class can fight and is balanced around fighting. So Fighters are just guys who are as good at fighting as everyone else, if not worse than the other classes, and they have no other specialty like healing or having good skill checks.
That's what they are in 5e, anyway.

>No other specialty
Nah, they're the BEST at fighting. They get to double their fight and heal the fuck up once per short rest by level 2. At 3 they get either a spellbook for dummies, TALKSHITGETCRIT, or smites that can be thrown onto attacks inflicting additional statuses or protecting allies or gaining accuracy, that recharge- again- on a short rest.
Fighters have strong class abilities, even if they're not pre-seasoned and flavorful from the get-go.

>So right from the get go we have Fighters breaking the "Realistic" standard, so fuck it, just let them scale like Wizards.

I'm not against that, I'm really not sure what part of my post lead you to believe that I was. Again, my central point was that using mundane methods of fighting in a mundane world wasn't "autistic". I don't see a reason why in a non-mundane world that fighters couldn't take on mythic characteristics as they got more powerful.

Honestly the whole "linear fighters, quadratic wizards" conundrum barely exists outside D&D, because wizards aren't PCs, they're villains or supporting characters.

So is Severian the fighter here or are his clients the fighters here?

I've heard it proposed that the fighter is the go to class for new players, whichs seems backwards. Its still a complicated class with a lot of choices. In the case where the party is a functional party, the fighter will have numbers-changing abilities like power attack and buffs that change the numbers yet further for a new player, which further complicates things.

I'd enjoy it if fighters had maneuvers not unlike wizards' spells. Maybe they have to weekly or something spend time practicing their maneuvers not unlike how the wizard has to memorize spells.

Fighters are generally at their prime, aside from some nice powers that seem more like extras, like their surge and what, so they feel easier than say a bard, who at first can only cast a few spells and this is fairly useless as their won't hit much with their not stellar attack stat.

Plus spells are just a lot for someone still learning the ropes.

>they're the BEST at fighting
lol no they're not. They're evenly matched with the martial and gish classes in combat at best, if not outclassed by them.
All you did was list what class features they have, not compare them against other classes or list how those things somehow make them better.
>Fighters have strong class abilities, even if they're not pre-seasoned and flavorful from the get-go.
They do have strong abilities, but I never said they didn't. I said that every class has strong combat abilities, but they usually also have some other thing they can do, like healing or tracking or lockpicking or, in the case of full casters, being a full caster.

My favorite book in the whole of 3.5 is ToB
And particularly my favorite class from that is crusader.

>Blatantly ahead of him in gear

No. Great Weapon fighting specialist paladin with the Great Weapon Mastery feat.

It is absolutely broken.
2d6 weapon, 3d8 (smite at second level), re-rolling any 1's or 2's, on a hit you add +10 to the damage (of course you take -5 to the attack).

Shit has me routinely doing about 30 damage a pop. Two attacks in a round. At fifth level. He starts duels outside of dungeon settings so I drop the ol' oath that gives me advantage on all attacks against him too.

He is dropped, fast.

>Only spending gold on charity

Almost exclusively.

The stale white bread of classes that hasn't been done right since 4e.

>Fighter is 100% grade A-retard

That he is, to the point the group has almost had enough of his bullshit to remove him from the game. He took a level in sorcerer to get mind rape spells.

>Trying to release murderous necromancers from judgement for power
>Mind raping party members for their loot
>Actively tries to get on the BBEG good side to betray the group for power. IN FRONT OF EVERYBODY.
>Intimidates old shop owners to steal all their shit as well

Oh look, it's eternally triggered bitch user.

Quality

So its a class, where you store/use Overkill damage, as cleave? But it stacks?

Champions Strike looks like something that isn't complete shit, but its not good either.
It looks like a DM fiat class, and not every DM has played Nuclear Throne and taken the feat Impact Wrists.

>Nah, they're the BEST at fighting.
Fighter is the guy who specializes into a weapon, because he is too shit to actually get good at fighting. But he is still shit.
Or at the least thats what the 3.5 class really is.

Please, I'd rather have a paladin or a Barbarian flanking me than a Fighter.

Paladins get insane burst damage that just gets better as time goes on while Barbarians have resistance to everything except psychic damage overall.

Between them, the Fighter is just a class that deals okay damage over a long period of time, which is shit when you consider how every turn is another opportunity for the enemy to fuck you and your party members up.

So you carry a bag of rats to kill so you do amazing damage against someone?
Didn't another class or something have that same problem?

>Barbarians have resistance to everything except psychic damage overall
Why, is wolf not as good as bear?

Wolf and Eagle are good but the fact that you have resistance to everything that isn't psychic is just too good to pass up.

Especially if you're going for a character that's meant to soak damage for the rest of the party.

This.

Having a guy that should have the highest HP pool and is heavily resistant to damage while generating solid damage while raging is a ridiculously nice concept.

They're also the only class really able to force attacks on themselves.

Swordchucks, yo.
But seriously, it's a hackneyed attempt at an everyman hero where the mechanics don't support the 'hero' bit. A strict fighting-man makes sense for things like Fighting Fantasy or JRPGs where they get a massive damage boost. It doesn't make sense when Chain Lightning replaces your character's entire purpose.

Well, level 10 he gets 3 attacks, while you get diddly squat.

...