In a three way faceoff, who wins this fight?

Federation has the best tech, Galactic Empire has the best FTL (provided navigation beacons come along for the ride and the Empire has accurate mapping of the Milky Way to the same extent that they have of the Galaxy Far Far Away), and the Imperium has the best numbers.

Between the three I'm personally betting on the Galactic Empire once it is able to assimilate Star Trek technology after conquering/allying with the Federaton.

If beacons don't come along for the ride (and thereby Star Wars style FTL is essentially impossible, since without hyper-accurate, up-to-date information, you can easily fly right into a planet or bounce off a supernova or something), then Star Trek. It has vastly superior technology in every possible area except perhaps sheer firepower, but that is, amusingly, the least useful thing to have an advantage in in interstellar warfare. For example, Federation starships can conduct combat at even warp speed if need be, and most engagements take place at significant fractions of the speed of light. If a Warhammer dreadnought or whatever has a photon torpedo coming at it at .9c fired from a ship traveling at 200c, can it meaningfully detect and respond to it?

Most importantly, perhaps, the Federation has casual, easy access to reliable time travel.

the highest "uberweapon" star trek has is less powerful than imperioum torpedos. Lets not start into lance weapons or plasma macrocannons or even mars pattern macrocannons. Imagine firing a volkswagen at 0,3C with a burst of several in less than 5 minutes, with a cooldown of 30minutes. Shells that actuall can hit other ships travelling at tens of thousands or even hundred of thousands kilometers per hour at over twenty thousand kilometers

The accuracy of those weapons along the power its complete nuts compared to anything star trek or meme wars has.

I've never really watched Star Trek but after seeing these arguments for years from what I understand the Star Trek ships can just teleport bombs into the other ships and blow them up from inside

Thing about turbolasers, they are retarded levels of OP

a single bolt from a medium turbolaser has about 30 000 terajoules of energy. The bomb dropped on Heroshima was 63 TJ

Bit hard to beam when you have to keep the shields up. The Galaxy class's shields can absorb about 70 000- 180 000 TJ before going down, but the SD fires constant volleys. Granted, the Galaxy is way faster at sublight, and could easily outmaneuver the SD.

But the both lose to the Mars class. There is literally no contest.

both ships have heavy shielding, which can't be beamed through. Also, the Mars can teleport shit as well. It also has massive anti-teleportation defenses.

what is teleportarium? Imperium cruisers can teleport vortex bombs inside star trek ships and send them to the deepest part of the immaterium. also psikers can counter those meme teleports and every imperial ship have several psikers.

we are also talking about decens of meters of dense metal and even sand storms in a planet can stop the meme trek teleport from functioning, while the teleportarium of the imperium works by immaterium and doesnt care.

Lances are much more powerful than the turbolasers and can fire at longer distances.

This.

Are you really implying a ship which has slaves reloading the guns stands a chance against actual sci-fi ships?

It's big, sure, but I don't see where all that power you speak of comes from when they could just appear in its rear arc and rape it up its ass considering just how much better the FTL travel methods of the other two universes are compared to warp.

Nah, Star Trek has retardedly OP superweapons.
But they only use it just the once for that episode, and it never comes up again.
I'm sure they'd find something to get rid of the Mars class and then forget that weapon exist.

>from what I understand the Star Trek ships can just teleport bombs into the other ships and blow them up from inside

No, as teleportation cannot be done through shields (unless you know EXACTLY what frequency their shields are operating on) and both sides have shields. 40K shields also don't even function like "regular" shields do - they project a bubble of Warp-energy around the vessel, causing enemy projectiles to literally hit a bubble of unreality. They can only take so much strain before they fail, but they definitely do not operate in the same way as SW/ST shields do.

The reality is that it grossly depends on how the 40K vessel is equipped. Some vessels have rare archeotech weapons and abilities like teleportariums, vortex-torpedoes (causes a hole in reality that sucks everything within a certain distance into actual Hell) and warp torpedoes (Torpedoes that travel through Hell before bursting back into reality just inside the enemies shields and detonating). Their weapons an equipment, while lower-tech, are also scaled to a significantly larger size - even a single torpedo can fucking devastate a ST/SW ship, just because they're designed to kill ships bigger than both of them.

For scale comparison, the Executor (Vaders flagship), which can solo a small fleet of ships by itself, is considered an "average sized" 40K vessel in terms of class.

Whoever fights, the photino birds win.

>the highest "uberweapon" star trek has is less powerful than imperioum torpedos

The highest "uberweapon" of Star Trek can collapse stars.

Star Trek Generations, the trilithium torpedo. Assuming that Veridian III is the same distance from its star as Earth is from Sol (about 146 million kilometers), Worf estimated that it would take about 11 seconds for a missile launched from the planet to reach the star. This is about 43 times the speed of light. This is a little more than Warp 3 (38.9c).

So say the Enterprise drops out of high warp at the periphery of a system (let's say...about Neptune's orbit, so about 30 AU) and launches a trilithium torpedo at the system's primary. At 43c, the torpedo will reach the star in about five and a half minutes.

Can the Imperium detect and intercept such a weapon?

A better question, who's boarding party is likely to last the longest if each ship is boarded by the other two? Assuming the Mars doesn't come with SPES MARINS

Both the Star Destroyer and the Mars Class Battleship are on roughly the same order of magnitude of firepower (hundreds of gigatons to single digit teratons). The most powerful weapons that Star Trek ships have are their antimatter torpedoes, that are just 64 megatons. They stand no chance against either of them; even if they had every ship in their fleets of tens of thousands of ships, every single ship would need to hit them with their torpedoes simultaneously.

As for who comes out on top of the Mars Class vs Star Destroyer battle, well, they're both roughly equal in all fields other than size, probably depends on things like the skills of their crew and the tactics of their commanders.

Mars class has stupid, stupid long range in comparison to the other two, and the most powerful weapons, but it is the slowest. The Star Destroyer would be dangerous assuming the crew is competent. The Galaxy has to play by their rules, and depending on the crew (and the name of the ship) they may survive.

Why do idiots spout things they know nothing about?

Star Destroyers have never been firing 200 gigaton shots. The movies directly contradict this, The Clone Wars TV show contradicts this, the Rebels TV show contradicts this, and the fact that Star Wars ships are MADE OUT OF A METAL WEAKER THAN TITANIUM contradicts nuclear yields. Because if Star Destroyers did have 200 gigaton shots, they'd instantly destroy each other due to Titanium not in any way, shape, or form being able to stand up to that much fucking energy.

Oh yeah, and that book was retconned. Along with around 97% of all other Star Wars books, games, comics, and shows.

Turbolasers in Star Wars, per canon, only have the power of kilotons. Star Trek completely and utterly annihilates them, as does 40k.

slowest??????? a mars class cruiser can go at 120.000 km per hour with constant course change to avoid being hit and a sustained acceleration of over 2,5 gs. do you understand how fast that shit is?

The important thing to note about the Galaxy is that it isn't even fighting if it doesn't want to be; in real space terms it is impossibly faster than either. This results in the Galaxy having all the time in the world it needs to have its engineers think up some kind of solution to the problem, while the Star Destroyer and the Mars duke it out and cause heavy damage to one another.

>a football stadium of efficiency vs one mile of CRUSH REBLES CUM vs 3.16 miles of DEATH TO ALL HERETICS

yeah, open that hailing frequency.

>MADE OUT OF A METAL WEAKER THAN TITANIUM

They're made out of duranium, an alloy of various metals that includes neutronium, which is hyperdense matter harvested from neutron stars.

I feel this is probably not weaker than titanium.

>120.000 km per hour

That is so Goddamn slow. "impulse" speeds is everything up to but not including lightspeed in Star Trek. "one-quarter impulse" is one quarter the speed of light, or about 270,000,000 kilometers per hour.

For ship-to-ship engagement purposes, Star Trek has the best FTL. The Empire, meanwhile, has the best FTL for interstellar travel purposes, given that it is casually easy to cross an entire galaxy in a matter of days at most.

>Both the Star Destroyer and the Mars Class Battleship are on roughly the same order of magnitude

Only in your sexual fantasies at night. Star Wars has been retconned along with all high yields for Star Destroyers. Not that those yields were ever canon because they directly contradict the movies. But from the new TV shows we can quite clearly see that ships in Star Wars have yields UNDER a single megaton. Turbolasers are weak shit that wouldn't scratch the pain on a Mars Class ship OR the Galaxy. Star Trek and Warhammer both obliterate the Star Destroyer in the opening volley, because a Star Destroyer could probably be killed with modern nuclear weapons.

Still Mars.

Imperial vessels typically contain a small contingent of Stormtroopers/Marines, usually equipped with carapace armor and blasters (low-level plasma weapons). This typically numbers in the 40's, with some vessels carrying hundreds or more.

ST has no dedicated soldiers of any kind. They can arm their crew with high-powered phasers (which are pretty potent, but cannot be used at "full-power" within a vessel), but are ultimately civilians pressed into combat when discussing boarding actions.

The Imperium, on the other hand, is very different. Their boarding actions are fought with Naval Armsmen, numbering in the thousands, armed with frag grenades, shotguns, and las-weapons (which are hardlight weapons that hit with the force of a 7.62 bullet). Their whole life is devoted to killing and war, from the time of enlistment (usually at a very young age) to their deaths. They have to be large enough, smart enough, and tough enough to fight thousands-strong ship riots and mutinies, as well as be capable enough to fight against the ever-present threat of pirates or xenos in the stars. They're incredibly religious, and their religion says that the only thing worse than an alien (i.e. a sizable portion of Starfleet) is a human who sympathizes with them, and to fight against the Imperium is to betray all of Mankind. Most of them are not only raised on the ship, they're born on it - any attack against the ship is a direct attack on their home, and they'll fight all the harder for it.

40K wins through numbers, strength, training, and pure hatred.

in comparison to the Galaxy? They can drop in and out of FTL warp speeds like a kid learning to park a car.

Don't mind me just contributing to the dickwaving

I would say imperial. They have most populous and powerful crew. The tiny groups that federation sends to investigate in most situations will just get mobbed by galley-slaves who propably think anything that teleports is demon. Empire may use something like gas or to deal with initial zerg rush but Tech-priests, servitors and on-board soldiers can propably beat stormtroopers. This combined with sheer size and byzantine architechture will propably confuse the hell out of any boarding party.

>They're made out of duranium, an alloy of various metals that includes neutronium, which is hyperdense matter harvested from neutron stars.
>I feel this is probably not weaker than titanium.
Nope, they're made out of durasteel per new canon, which is stated to be weaker than Titanium.

Mars for sure. The average Imperuim crewman is a muscly mongoloid with cybernetic attachments and a weapon within arms reach at all times.

I thought Sol was 8 light minutes from earth. 11 minutes would be further from that star than earth, or would be sub light speeds.

Where?

Better question...*why*?

The Force Awakens Incredible Cross Sections. Probably because Star Wars was never that strong, and the two tv shows (Clone Wars and Rebels)...really don't make anything out to be powerful. At all. Weak even. We have seen Star Wars frigates fight IN ATMOSPHERE. This means there is oxygen to create fireballs, so if they were slinging around megatons/gigatons of energy, we'd see huge fireballs.

Well there weren't any, and they don't even harm troops who are relatively close to the blast site.

The Enterprise. Star trek is the only one of the three settings with tactical FTL. Through means never quite explained, their sensors can pick up things faster than light as well.

Which means that neither the ISD nor the Mars class BC can actually hit the Enterprise, even if they're aimed perfectly and get a lock: The Enterprise is quite literally capable of turning around, outrunning their shots, and veering off the vector to not be hit.

stardestroyer.net/tlc/Power/

say all you want about canon, it takes a lot of energy to vaporize an asteroid into dust, which is precisely what we see a Star Destroyer doing multiple times in the fifth film.

Sol is 8 light minutes from Earth. But the trilithium covered (what I am, admittedly, merely presuming to be) that distance in 11 SECONDS, not minutes. Which I stated, but eh, you misread, it's fine, people make mistakes.

So that translates out to about 43c, or slightly more than Warp 3.

It is, perhaps, worth noting that Worf then further goes on to state that because he doesn't have a precise point of origin for where the missile would launch, it would take between 8 and 15 seconds to target and destroy the missile. Meaning that FTL weapons are not something unique to the trilithium torpedo, since there was no doubt about whether or not the ship COULD destroy the missile, only whether or not they could lock onto it fast enough.

Every time I see 40k ships compared to others in scale, it really puts in perspective how retarded 40k designers are.

Look at the Star Trek and Star Wars vehicles. They actually appreciate how big a meter is.

On the other hand, we've got the shit designs of 40k, where you've got windows the size of houses alongside protusions that serve no purpose beyond making the ship incapable of surviving a passage through any nebula or dust field, physical projectile guns, and external cathedrals that are 10x to 100x the size of actual cathedrals.

In fact, the only way that the 40k ship designs make any sense is if you chop off a 0 or two off the end of their listed sizes.

This is less "rule of cool", and more "we need to have big ships but we don't know how to design them, so let's just design small ships and then just say they're really big."

Too bad half the time they're never this competent, and simply sit around like dumbasses while their ships get torn up by phasers or torpedoes. It only matters if they're intelligent enough to use their technical advantage... which they rarely do looking at their Borg Misadventure where a Cube slaughtered most of Starfleet that was loitering around like dumbasses. When they could have been Warp-Strafing.

if you know anything about star wars canon, you will know physics literally work differntly in the star wars universe

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_and_Star_Wars

wired.com/2015/12/the-physics-in-star-wars-isnt-always-right-and-thats-ok/

I like reading these threads. Makes me feel all superior for not participating.

We have zero evidence of what those asteroids were made out of, and could have quite easily just been kiloton level still (which some calcs agree with).

It sure as fuck ain't gigaton nonsense.

>Makes me feel all superior for not participating.

But you just did, user

But you just participated.

11 seconds, not 11 minutes.

Which they proceeded to do against the next Cube, resulting in a running battle all the way to Earth that the fleet had basically won even before the Enterprise E showed up.

Which isn't proof of anything unless Disney states that physics do not work as such, otherwise it's non canon speculation.

And in order for any "versus" to be had, we need to assume physics works as normal or else it is impossible to compare anything out of our understanding.

>We have zero evidence of what those asteroids were made out of

Potato.

popularmechanics.com/culture/movies/a15063/empire-strikes-back-asteroids-were-potatoes/

>Too bad half the time they're never this competent, and simply sit around like dumbasses while their ships get torn up by phasers or torpedoes.

ST weapons are also FTL, as are their targeting systems. See that other guy's post here, or just the fact that a lot of the pursuit/engagements feature firing while chasing someone at warp speeds, thinking of the Borg, The Best of Both Worlds, Riker can't quite catch up to the Borg cube at warp 9.6, but is still preparing a spread of weapons to hit it with if they do so, implying that said things will not actually be slower than and thus hit the pursuing ship going at again, warp 9.6.

Jeaaaaaa, but that is true for the entirety of the designs in that universe. Thats the point really. Hyperbole as far as the eye can see, screw the consequence.

...

They aren't FTL considering we see them moving near ships at visible speeds.

By your logic, every bit of tech and every material that doesn't exist cannot be taken into consideration.

Come on you can't actually take Disney reconning the entire XU just because the IP changed hands seriously. It was just an aggressive move to show that they're in charge now.

Physics in all the three universes work different from real physics though... otherwise the respective designs literally make no sense at all

...

Aw come on, not directly.
Plus, there's at least a hundred in which I didn't participate.

No, we presume it functions under plausible real physics. It's the only way a debate can be held, because otherwise there is zero basis of comparison if nobody even knows how powerful somebody's gun is compared to everybody's else's gun.

But you did it again. And since we are responding to you and you have responded, you have just ended your non-participation streak.

It was called quality control. 90% of the EU was utter dogshit, the only good thing about it was Old Republic era and Rogue Squadron. Everything else can go die in a hole.

Volia. We have no point of reference, case closed.

That's funny, because they say they're at FTL, and all the technical manuals in the canon support the notion that even Warp 1.1 is FTL. If they're going at a rather leisurely Warp 3, they're going at about 39 times the speed of light, which means that nothing either other universe can bring to bear can hit them at all.

*Voilà

>these primitives are still measuring the energy of their firearms in kilotons and gigatons

Move aside.

>No, we presume it functions under plausible real physics

but none of these ships can. They all run on imaginary power sources and are made of imaginary materials. There are no set numbers.

it is literally a "my gun is bigger than yours" argument.

Whopdedo, Mars-Class enters the warp, nothing can hit it there as well.

We need to exclude that argument, otherwise we get nowhere

picking an imperial vessel with a nova cannon kind of makes this conversation moot

those things do not mess around

>he doesn't measure in WILLPOWER, DETERMINATION or FRIENDSHIP

They are obviously not moving at FTL speeds because we, the audience, CAN SEE THEM CROSSING THE SHIP.

>Whopdedo, Mars-Class enters the warp, nothing can hit it there as well.

Yes, but

A) The Mars Class vessel undergoes irreducible risk every time it tries to do that.

B) It cannot do so within the confines of a system, you always need to enter and leave the warp in low grav areas.

C) It can't strike at its enemies within the Warp. The Enterprise, on the other hand, still see, shoot, and communicate while going at warp speed.

They're in no way equivalent.

Something Ive always wondered is, star trek shields developed from a arms race where the tech being raced was particle beams that are constantly changing frequency. If you can find the frequency of the enemies shields, as they do multiple times in the series, you can fire right through them.

Star wars weapons are primarily plasma based. Why would star trek shields block them?

On the other hand, the shields in star wars would have no reason to have evolved to block transports so it seems like both ships would have tremendous advantages over each other.

Not knowledgeable enough about 40K superheavy weapons.

>star destroyer
>no shields

See, this is how you identify the trekkie posting shit.

He does though.

He just calls it GUTS AND HARD WORK.

>muh Thrawn
He's pretty overrated

>Mr. Data, open a hailing channel to both alien vessels!

>yes sir...channel open

>-REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>entire bridge crew begins their own REEEEEEE

>all three ships are engaged in a REEEEEE

Warhammer ship weapons are either plasma, lasers, or fuck-off fast and huge missiles and slugs.

That's a pure convention for the screen and we both know it. We might as well say that we should deal with 40k in terms of crunch, not fluff, to determine that weapon ranges and firepower are less than modern day weapons, not absurdly futuristic. The show isn't about big black screen (since again, you wouldn't be able to see anything moving at FTL), but all the characters talk about how they're going at FTL, and all the technical documention confirms they're going at FTL. They are going at FTL.

If "We can see them moving so it can't be FTL" then every shot you ever see of any ship going at warp speeds "can't really happen", and they don't actually have interstellar travel in a time span less than centuries to millenia, and the entire show doesn't actually exist, you utter retard.

Are warhammer ships held together with warp energies or something because something that massive would be effected by its own gravity

40k weapons are mostly actual bullets in space.

and sexy
youtu.be/priegK1D_lU?t=106

Star Trek ships can target and fire while in FTL, right (I honestly do not know much about Stark Trek, feel free to correct me)? That's kind of a winning card there.

I'm sure the Mars would absolutely annihilate the other two in a straight up fight, but if it can't target the Galaxy it can't win. The Imperial-I is absolutely irrelevant.

Close shots to a ship in warp would be visible because it would be within the warp bubble, which allows the ship to move. But those scenes when a torpedo is buzzing around a ship and about to hit is obviously not at FTL speeds, because it's right by a static object and moving at visible speeds.

>It cannot do so within the confines of a system

[citation needed]

wars also has some huge ships, the executor was like 20km

Depends. A lot of standard batteries are plasma based.

Either way, they use fantastic space magic tech to accelerate these projectiles fast enough to facilitate combat over systemnal ranges.

True, still not in way thats more violent then other points we already waved... like the thin excellerating at all

>Look at the Star Trek and Star Wars vehicles. They actually appreciate how big a meter is.

Fucking hilarious. Have you seen the Executor and the Eclipse? Or that one rebel capital ship that looks like a giant grey turd?

They're ridiculously huge. And they make even less sense than 40K ships, because there's no consistent progression of size up to them. You have these cruisers of 1500ish meters and then you just randomly have battlecruisers that are in the area of 9000 meters.

Star Trek space fights are like two effeminate men standing at arms length and slapping each other until one cries

Star Wars fights are like a bar full of drunk hooligans pounding each other senseless with chairs and bottles

Warhammer fights are like Star Wars fights, but instead of a bar it's an entire city block fighting and throwing each other off roofs until some jumped-up asshole flies a plane into the ground.

Thats a point that always bugged me about macrobatteries... By all accounts, those bullets should travel for ever until they hit something.

As a rule, you should probably ignore any vaguely scientific-sounding numbers you see quoted in sci-fi materials, because they're written by people who have no idea what they mean.

I mean, if Star Wars weapons were as powerful as their "official" stats suggest, then even having a blaster shot pass near you would vaporize you just from the heat of it interacting with the air it passed through. But we see Princess Leia get grazed in the shoulder in RoTJ and suffer no more injury than if she'd been hit by a conventional gunshot. Plus, as recently as Episode VII, we see starfighters engaging ground targes without their shots causing nuke-level damage.

The hierarchy of canon says that where stats in some random book contradict the primary material, the primary material takes precedence. It's just like how there was one short story in 40k where an Imperial cruiser was said to be 30km long, but all the other sources suggest a size around 5km.

>"Sir, they've opened fire on us!"
>"How much time before impact?"
>"..."
>"HURRY! HOW MUCH TIME DO WE HAVE?"
>"Sorry about that sir, had to pull up a calendar."

admech transport ships are described as over 60km and the Abyss class ships were making people who were used to seeing those go "wow, that's a big fucking ship"

pretty much every HH book, they can cross it in like a day or two, which is pretty decent sub light speeds, but they need to get to the edge of it before they can warp jump safely

Actually, nova cannons shoot projectiles at relativistic speeds.

Mate, Star Wars gets just as stupid, if not more so.