Why would anyone use melee in a setting with so many different firearm types? That's so fucking stupid

Just grab a fucking shotgun if you want to be so close then. Do you see modern military running around with katanas?

Shotguns don't actually have that much force.
Also modern militaries don't have armor that can deflect laser several times more powerful than a modern day sniper

that's the point
people make guns >>> people make giant fucking armor to counter the guns >>> people make melee weapons to counter the giant fucking armor

But meltaguns are already a thing.

melee weapons existed way before meltas, user

You can't give every soldier a meltagun, but you can give every soldier a huge fucking knife.

>Just grab a fucking shotgun
Most soldiers carry a primary weapon and a sidearm

Shotguns are heavy (relatively speaking) and have limited range and firing capability unless we are talking about a semi auto shotgun with slugs and drum mag. They are limited in utility aside from close quarters without modding.

So having a rifle and a trench knife/entrenching tool gives a soldier close quarters, long-mid range capabilities

And melee weapons SUCKED COCK. Contrary to what people believe the medieval combat casualities weren't that big it was the invention of firearms that actually turned warfare into meat grinders.

I'm sure a guardsman can successfuly melee bloodletters.

And they're really expensive, heavy and probably volatile, yes.

enough of them could

because they wanted a setting where guns and sword exist in accord, if you want a guns-only campaign, go play a setting where the universe didn't conspire that rule of cool be the end all be all of the setting. warhammer is a product of the ridiculously over-the-top coke fueled nightmare that was the 80s, with the express purpose of smashing half a dozen miniatures from different time periods and saying "we should have vikings do battle with samurai"

with a brick he could

IN SPACE

>Do you see modern military running around with katanas?

Modern militaries don't have access to things like power armor and carapace armor that can reliably stop conventional rounds that can be easily mass-produced.

They also don't have access to power fields and chain-weapons, which, while difficult to wield, in proper hands would be fucking devastating.

Modern weapons are literal garbage in 40K. The highest-quality modern melee weapon made of the best materials would be, at most, very basic melee weapons compared to 40K weapons.

You're also ignorant of the things that literally exist to fight you in close combat, and are VERY good at getting that close to begin with, such as Daemons, Orks, and Tyranids. You REALLY need some sort of close-combat weapon against them, no matter how well-armored you are, and especially with Orks and Tyranids ammo is an extremely vital concern.

>Modern weapons are literal garbage in 40K.
Actually our weaponry is pretty up to par
Modern armor sucks in comparison

The 80s sound pretty rad

It's not even, "let's apply logic," it's, "Let's apply modern, 21st century logic to a setting that exists 38,000 years in the future where magic, Hell, and demons are all very real things, and there are xenos species that fight in radically different ways and exist with radically different biologies and behavioral patterns, all while ignoring the fact that combat in this universe exists at everything from the gang-war level to planetary scale, with armies in the tens of millions strong on each side."

If you're going to apply logic to 40K, apply the logic of the setting itself first before you try and look at from a 21st Century perspective.

He could definitely melee a Tau and possibly even an Ork on a good day.

Big knives are also very useful tools to have. Knives can do quite a bit in a non-combat role.

>>Modern weapons are literal garbage in 40K.
>Actually our weaponry is pretty up to par

Eh, ranged weapons are "okay." Out best guns are literally a dime-a-dozen in the Imperium, with most forms of autoguns in 40K even being better quality than ours (and still being radically easier to make). Lasguns aren't much better in terms of power than an autogun (and don't cause blood loss) but they are a logisticians wet dream with how durable and serviceable they are, and they are literally solar-powered weapons with a theoretically infinite amount of ammo.

Plasma, Melta, and Bolt weapons blow anything we have out of the water.

>Bayonets
>small machetes
>axes
>spears
>entrenching tools
>swords
Guardsmen depending on their regiment have a wide variety of melee weapons

Knives are typically the most common weapon issued, because of their ease of production and utility, but you're absolutely right.

It doesn't change the point that close-combat weapons are very valuable to have for a soldier in the M41.

ur a nerd 40k is for turbo virgins anyway we need to apply logic to your shit setting

>not engaging the enemy in glorious melee
>not slashint the enemies of man in His name
>not making a heroic last stand with your sword in hand

Are you the angry Star Wars fan that gets his ass rustled by 40k lore? Do you hate The Enterprise and SG-1 too because they are more entertaining than Lucas-Lucas Bink's meme world?

>Plasma, Melta, and Bolt weapons blow anything we have out of the water.

Research the following please which are all small arms
>Incendiary rounds
>AP black tip rounds
>Beowulf 50 cal
>Black talon shredder rounds
>Explosive 12 gauge shells
>40MM grenade launchers

Then the larger guns
>GAU-8 Avenger cannon
>.50BMG

We just don't go so over the top because we generally don't fight anything tougher than other humans, now if we fought daemons or orks on a regular basis, you can bet your ass we would equip all our soldiers with AA12 automatic drum fed shotguns loaded with explosive rounds or shredder slugs.

anyone trying to say warhammer is unrealistic and stupid misses the point, we LIKE seeing the stupid ass weapons, we like guns bigger than your own body, we like powered armored knights swinging plasma swords at another power armored knight wielding a chainsaw axe, we like seeing starship trooper bugs doing battle with humans wielding swords. (IN SPACE) you arent supposed to take it seriously, or if you do, then take the universe at face value, we EMBRACE the fun to be had in melee combat

you dont understand do you

the 80s were awesome

I don't think a Star Wars fan would be getting mad at a setting with melee in space.

star wars and warhammer are both great

Is there any reasonable SF setting? 40K is fucking stupid.

>we need to apply logic to your shit setting

Not him, but you're kind of missing the point of what he's saying. People only apply 21st century logic to the setting without factoring in the setting itself, and wonder why things don't make sense. Having things like Space Marines makes sense when you fight shit like Orks and Daemons.

>reasonable SF
That genre died with C.Clarke.

part of the joy is embracing the stupid
unleash your inner 6 yr old dream of pitting knights against ninjas, and combine them with your adult sensibilities of actual rules

as for reasonable, star trek maybe if you like high technology and diplomacy, something like halo if you are into war and semi-realistic guns

All of those things are extremely primitive compared to their 40K equivalents.

A Bolter is pretty much a fully-automatic, extremely precise 25mm grenade launcher in a man-portable (and even pistol) platform. We have nothing like that.

Those shotgun rounds exist in 40K as largely identical equivalents, in addition to some we don't have, like Organgrinder, Haywire, Monofiliment (think razor wire) and Snare rounds. The larger guns are not nearly up to par with their 40K equivalents, either.

We also have absolutely nothing like 40K plasma and melta weapons. Melta weapons specifically would fuck our shit, because modern tactics have no real plan for short-ranged potent anti-armor weapons that aren't contact weapons, let alone some that are man-portable and reloadable.

I'm not saying we're stone-age savages. Our shit would definitely do some damage, and our average grunt would likely be relatively evenly matched. As you go higher up the chain, however, we become woefully outclassed.

Rule of Cool. In one of the new Star Trek movies Sulu uses a fucking foldout katana (because apparently they didn't bring phasers or they just conveniently lost them) and in Star Wars they have cortosis swords and others.

Why would you ever try to fight with a sword or any melee weapon in a setting where people can summon the elements from their fucking hands to destroy you before you even get close? Why wear armor when you fight trolls and ogres that use trees as blunt weapons that can crush any man, armor or no?

Because it's fucking fantasy and Rule of Cool wins.

>Monofiliment (think razor wire)
>Doesn't know what "bolo rounds" are
u wot m8

Melta weapons yeah, we would have to basically weaponize plasma cutters to be on par with that one.

these people get it

>You can't give every soldier a meltagun
WHY THE FUCK NOT

unfortunately the rules say that you can only get X melta guns for every Y number of soldiers

although, if you play only war, then go nuts as your regiment scourges the land, since those pesky germs may harbor chaos

Star Trek is for fucking nerds and Halo is for underages and xbox tards so retarded that they think having a shit controler that can't be charged and paying for multiplayer while other platforms (until the latest kike generation came) had it for free is a good idea. No wonder Xbox 360 was so popular in jew sa because only americans can be this fucking stupid.

But why wouldn't we just join the glorious Imperium of Man?

And more importantly how the fuck have we not been touched by chaos?

youtube.com/watch?v=ep8zPCfMB1Q&list=PLx6N3LVwgba1g-Tr9zFBKcBEnFBmU5HfH&index=4

hard science-based future warfare is going to be hard to write to be 'cool'.

technology would get to the point where you can wipe out people, buildings, cities, continents, and eventually planets without ever seeing or knowing what killed you.

there would be no epic feats of strength on the battlefield or bloody infantry charges against fortified positions. there would be no battles. it would be nuclear warfare to the nth degree.

because HE wills it

remove this rat lovers filth

>Fire Dragons: The Imperial Guard Regiment

>>GAU-8 Avenger cannon
>>.50BMG
>LaughingTitans.holo
>LaughingStormlords.holo

Even ignoring Titan-grade weaponry, the Imperium already has BRRRRT. The Fire Raptor gunship and Avenger Strike Fighter both have rotary cannons chambered for bolt shells.

>Arch Warhammer
>filth
shut your heretical mouth
I bet you are a cultist of the fifth and most foul chaos god Matt Ward

.50 bmg is strength 4 AP 6, enough for grots, or unarmored people, but guardsmen would actually survive that

What about US Navy railguns?
those projectiles are going around mach 7 at 230 miles, tungsten projectile like that can liquefy an aircraft carrier

youtube.com/watch?v=o4ZqfEJTGzw

tau have those as standard armament

>implying the 50 spehss mehrins have enough ammo to fight all the tyranids/orks/angry heretics with pitchforks
>implying that certain factions such as tyranids and eldar are anywhere near good at ranged combat
>implying orks, slaanesh chaos spehss mehrines, and dark eldar dont just enjoy using melee
>implying daemons use guns
Now if this was The Greater Good 40k there probably wouldn't be melee.
Be less new to 40k pleb

>Railguns
The Tau have plenty. Imperial Fellblades also use "Accelerator Cannons," which may or may not be railguns. I don't have the appropriate reference books to say for sure.

>standard armament
I'll take that as a compiment, Tau are notoriously dangerous in ranged combat.

Somehow I doubt each Tau is carrying around a bunch of 10lb tungsten slugs...

standard for their tanks anyway, the people have smaller versions

They keep their ammo inside their face vaginas.

Okay, here's the reason why melee weapons have become so popular. Sometimes, there are really tough things that can charge through all that gunfire. Sometimes, there are too many things to kill with just guns. Sometimes you need to stab shit in confined locations.

>But user, chainsword is impractical for Astartes power armor!
Because like the boltgun, they weren't designed for power armor. They were designed for the gene-mutants of Terra and the various alien abominations around the universe like Orks. A chainsword is going to do a lot more than just shaking the mushroom faggots.
>But user, what about Eldars and things?
Those pansy fucking Elves have their own hyped melee weapons, you better not be lost without it.

Oh piss off. There's in-universe justification for various bullshit. Is everything sound and logical? Fuck no, it's a god damn scifi setting. Is there reasons for some of the bullshit? Yes. It's meant to be over the top. It's what the setting was before money turned it into a grimdark shitfest.

And that's before we get into the superheavy variants mounted on Mantas and Tiger Sharks, or the even bigger ones mounted on their starships. Tau fucking love railguns.

On their vehicles. The fire warriors use incredibly stable plasma weapons that aren't as powerful as the Imperium's because they're too pussy not to turn the safety features off.

THe imperium removed the safety features on theirs entirely.

Yeah because every enemy they fight is a fucking Nid or Ork right? Good thing they go melee against Necrons and Tau as well. With predictable results.

2007 wants their opinions back.

when they turn off the safety features, they become some rather impressive weapons

In Starcraft Terrans ignore melee despite fighting Zergs aka Tyranids so there is no fucking excuse why the mighty oversized Imperium can't issue enough ammo.

Can't lasguns blow apart concrete walls in a single blast?
>Star Trek
>Reasonable
user, I'm sorry.

And yet some of them have bayonets.

>the mighty oversized Imperium can't issue enough ammo.

The bigger the Empire, to worse bureaucracy gets

as far as I remember, a lasgun "round" packs roughly the same punch as a round from a 50. cal mg, though I could be wrong as that's essentially what a heavy stubber is

a lasgun is closer to 30-06

Yeah, that sounds about right, which is a lot better than our guns just on the grounds that a normal human can reliably use them.

>With predictable results.
Good thing many Imperial forces have access to transports, jump packs, teleporters, drop pods, and/or ranged fire support, then. There are plenty of ways for a smart Imperial commander to get mileage out of his assault terminators.

>Can't lasguns blow apart concrete walls in a single blast?

Not really. They can blow off chunks of concrete, sure, but no more or less than any conventional weapon does today.

The main strengths of lasguns is that they're:

A. Incredibly durable.
B. Incredibly cheap.
C. Have a spread of virtually zero.
D. Can cause people to go into shock if they're shot, as well as potentially set clothing on fire.
E. Irreversibly fuck up organs should they hit them.
F. They're completely electricity-fueled weapons, and their charge packs can be recharged with sunlight or literally throwing them into a fire (though this is not advised, as it drastically shortens the packs lifespan).

They do have their drawbacks, however.

A. They draw a giant, solid beam from the shooter to the target. While it's only for a fraction of a second, it's still enough to allow an enemy to track it and find your position.
B. It cannot be suppressed in any way. The crack of a lasgun ionizing air around the beam is unmistakably and, within the radius of the sound, unconcealable.
C. Significantly lowered options for alternative ammo (though some do exist).
D. It doesn't cause blood loss. If you shoot somebody, if you don't hit a vital organ or deal catastrophic damage to a limb, he's just gonna get back up again, and he'll be able to fight for much longer than somebody suffering from blood loss.

They're not perfect weapons, they're just really, really good for a standard-issue battle rifle for a galaxy-wide civilization.

It's their fault for creating a needlessly large empire to begin with.

I remember that it can delimb people though, which is better than a normal bullet, but I guess that's more a matter of size of impact rather than "force" for a better word.
They're obviously not the best weapon in the setting being so relatively weak.

Things that need killing in 40k are stupidly tough. So you need stupidly powerful bullets, like bolters.
Bolter shells are stupidly big. So you can't carry many. So you carry a melee weapon.

Orks will charge you. There are enough that your bolter cannot stop them reaching you. Orks are everywhere. So you carry a melee weapon.

Guns that can actually kill shit at range reliably with decent ammunition storage are incredibly unreliable, rare, expensive, delicate, actively malevolent or a combination of the above.

Marines are stupidly strong. Guns don't benefit from that strength. So you carry something that does.

Because the entire premise is knights in space.

It's fun.

Because everyone hates you OP and made an entire setting retroactively just to trigger you.

Take your pick.

Shit's expensive and hard to build and maintain, yo. Takes specialized material and ammo, and it's meant to be an anti-tank weapon, not a regular infantry rifle.

That's if it's tuned to it's highest power setting.

Lower settings are more comparable to 5.56mm.

Great by our standards, though. Especially if it's so low-maintenance.

Delicious lasguns. Bolters can suck it.

blowing up continents or planets isn't an issue for 40k, but sometimes you just fucking want that factory the size of a small continent instead of blowing up everything

In-Universe Explanation:
>Armor is strong enough to take most projectiles without immediately crumpling so you need something that can deliver heavy damage over time
>Power weapons deal heavy damage over time at a molecular level

Irl Explanation:
Rule of cool bitch

>reasonable
>star trek

>main strengths
And let's not forget their ridiculously high capacity. One of Gaunt's Ghosts magdumped about 200 shots into a target in Blood Pact. A lightweight, reliable rifle with a 200-shot capacity is enough to give anyone an erection.

I'm pretty sure standard capacity for a lasgun cartridge is around 40 shots. Unless you have a batterypack in which case you've pretty much got however much energy you need for an entire campaign.

It probably depends on the model, charge pack, and writer. In Guns of Tanith, there's a scene involving the Munitorum issuing the wrong type of mags to the Tanith, leading to an ammo shortage. The Tanith probably just use guns that are built for mags that lie on the high end of the capacity scale.

Don't know how accurate the wiki is but
>"They have longer range and higher ammunition capacity than a Laspistol (the laspistol power packs having roughly 80 shots before depletion, compared to roughly 150 shots for a lasgun)"
>" It is powered by a small, rechargeable power pack located beneath the weapon, in front of the trigger guard."

>Why would anyone use melee in a setting with so many different firearm types?
To make a point,
>I don't like you, you're so shit at shooting, that I'll walk all the way up there to stab you on the face.

>Taking sniper fire
>LUCKILY, I HAVE MY TRUSTY MELTA

Well, you can always melt the ground to do some form of smoke to cover advance, in case of doubt you can always call for the Melta Bomb artillery.

You're talking about a ridiculous amount of wars being fought, to the point where the Imperium can't even keep track of what wars have ended or even what ones that aren't even aware of yet.

The fickleness of the warp causes logistical problems across the board, from communication to transport.

It's hard to effectively and accurately manage warfare in this setting on such a grand scale when you can actually get messages about things about things that haven't even happened/happened hundreds of years ago, and when a clerical error can cause the death of millions.

Mankind can't take its rightful galaxy without taking its rightful galaxy.

Or if you're Jurgen, you and your trusty commissar will find a way to blunder into the sniper's hiding spot and melt him at point-blank range.