Non-human Elf Village

Greetings Veeky Forums,
I have a situation you just might be able to assist me with.
I have worked very hard to keep my non-human races non-human in my setting.
I hate non-human races that are just humans with a few details changed.
That said I've only managed to keep this working by having most of the few non-human races at the players meet be the rare exceptions.
Mostly.
My issue is that the plot is winding its way towards the players visiting an Elven village located in the middle of a large river.
And everytime I try and design what the village will look like it comes out being far too human-centric.

How do I design a nonhuman, elf village based on sitting in the middle of a river?

The relevant racial qualities of elves in my setting are cold resistance, predominantly eat fish, somewhat aquatic but breathe air, and are magically proficient but not dramatically more so than other races.

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Bumping for personal interest.

>Elf town wat do?

Seriously, have none of you ever visited an Elfen Village in whatever Fantasyland you frequent and wondered why elves have the exact same structures, buildings, facilities, and general elements of society that humans do?

But even forgetting that they are a different species, just the fact that they choose to live in and on the water would modify how the village is designed.
Unlike human villages on the river, they aren't focused on trade and in fact generally avoid visitors.
They do love to fish, but how would a race of beings that are as comfortable in the water as out develop fishing differently than their human counterparts?
I suppose they might be much like tropical island fisherman despite being in a river.

I designed my elves to be resistant to cold because they are aquatic and so many water sources are deeply cold.
Also it allows the opportunity for more exposed help skin and a reasonable justification for it.

Thank you for your interest.

Changing water levels will be a concern. Houses will need to either be elevated or adaptable to being flooded. Existing human cultures ironically provide good inspiration

There's also things like this for general elfyness
Seriuosly, humans have done things you'd think were pulled out of a fantasy novel
Well your fish people elves are pretty odd. Most people aren't really experts on designing non-human habitats from scratch either

Good point.
Thanks for contributing.
My first thought was floating homes but I suppose homes on stilts would be a preferable option.
Perhaps homes built out of trees growing straight up out of the river? Because you know, elves, trees, and whatnot.

Many elven societies in my setting are dedicated to living in harmony with nature but it's not a racial trait but a byproduct of an affinity for water which is a racial trait.
The village I am particularly worried about has very little limitations to it aside from a history of crafting powerfully enchanted jewelry because that's the hook that is leading the PCs.

Floating homes would be good if they traveled, but you said they're more isolationist. I suppose it could still work anyway
>Perhaps homes built out of trees growing straight up out of the river?
Trees that grow in areas prone to flooding are...odd. Even they try to stay raised above it, with roots that push them up above the water level. Not sure how you'd build something supported by one of these, but I guess you could scale it up to fantastical levels and build houses supported/sheltered by the roots or something

To elaborate on this - these bridges are weaved out of the roots of living trees. They keep growing as time goes on and must be maintained. There are dedicated people taught this craft to do so. I can see a "one with nature" elven population doing something along those lines

More root bridges because I think they're really fucking cool

...

>Seriuosly, humans have done things you'd think were pulled out of a fantasy novel
Humans do make the best aliens.
Not gonna lie.

> (You) #
>Well your fish people elves are pretty odd.
They're not that different from most elves. If I wanted fish people, I would have made fish people like Abraham Sapian.
They're just written from the bottom up to to have developed elven traits.

>Most people aren't really experts on designing non-human habitats from scratch either
True, but Veeky Forums is good at developing ideas and even better at shooting down bad ideas.

>More root bridges because I think they're really fucking cool
They are indeed really fucking cool.

>I guess you could scale it up to fantastical levels and build houses supported/sheltered by the roots or something
I am imagining a village with root bridges for roads and structures formed of trees and root matrices.
It would resemble a massive, twisting labyrinthine birds nest with homes blanketed with leaves resting on top.
The convoluted design befuddling would-be attackers while defensive forces strike from hidden perches.

I'm getting a feel for this.

One aspect of this sort of elven society is that one would imagine they wouldn't have a lot of stonework or metalwork.
Not entirely certain how this would affect the nature of the village.

If they're resistant to cold and don't mind getting wet, why bother with houses at all?

They still might need buildings for storage and workspaces-specifically your jewelers might want a workroom/forge- but lacking the need for shelter most of the year might make housing superfluous.

Well everything's gonna have to be wood, but it seems like that was gonna be the case anyway. Their tools and weapons will suck though

Their home is in some pocket dimension outside our own, only reached through some arcane ritual (or at the elves invitation).

There are no buildings, just a seemingly endless forest in bathed in perpetual twilight. Goblins serve their masters and play music for endless dances and reveries. Occasionally, an elf will spontaneously declare themself king, and begin holding a sort of faerie court that may be nothing more than a mockery of human customs. There's a good chance the "king" will be assassinated by another elf, who will take up his place; business will resume as if nothing had happened.

Characters who eat or drink while in the elven kingdom will be inflicted with a Geas or something similar.

aquatic magical race calls for underwater domes / bubbles

bump

Okay.
What do your elves believe in? What is sacred? What is taboo? Do they have a central holy area serviced by a priest, do they have multiple shrines distributed around the village that are serviced by the community directly, do they have many sacred or forbidden areas or activities, is religious ritual considered something separate from daily life or something integral to it?

You say they are isolationists and live in villages, yet have magical ability on similar level to other races. What does that mean? How is it similar to what humans do, and how is it dissimilar? Does it mesh with their religious tradition, a domain of the village shaman, or is it seen as a mundane thing that everyone does everyday? Do they write or have a purely oral culture? How much does their magic complement or replace mundane tools? Is it used whenever it is practical or reserved for special occasions?

How do they live? Do families live together in their communal dwellings, are new couples expected to find a new home? Are children raised exclusively by their parents, exclusively by the community, or by both equally? How is wealth distributed? What is their social hierarchy? Is the hierarchy supported by force or tradition?

What do they think of foreigners? How do they defend themselves?

>If they're resistant to cold and don't mind getting wet, why bother with houses at all?
I know there's more to houses than just keeping warm and dry.
But the question is a good one to keep in mind.
There's no reason that an open air, lean to sort of design would not work to keep precipitation and wind off you.

>Their tools and weapons will suck though
Already fiated in a tree that provides near-metal hard wood.
It's difficult to care for and shape, but is not rare.
It's roughly equivalent to overpriced bronze.

These are almost exactly my setting's Slyph, only they use children, not goblins.

What setting are we even talking about?

My personal setting.
Could be nutshelled as "Forgotten Realms completely deconstructed and rebuilt from creation up following a path of natrural development that makes sense."
I would infodump more, but the gist of it is that I wanted a fantasy world that was inclusive of many things from d&d, but crafted in a way that makes sense.

My own attempts at this have told me you must cut out most of D&D for it to make sense. At a point it would be dishonest to still relate the two

What if they don't build them but instead shape existing aquatic trees into the form needed. So there are no artificial parts, the trees just happen to grow in such a way that their vines and branches provide protection from the elements. That will also make them structurally sound to flooding.

Flooding brings another point. Floods would destroy or damage chattels inside the treeldings. Thus, elven culture would have to evolve in a way that disregards material possessions.

The noble dead saga did something like that. The elves in it had specialized craftsmen that would coax the trees into the shapes of homes or whatever other structures they needed, and furnitures/possessions would just be extensions of the rest of the tree mass.

Their boats were interesting, being these living tree constructs with a heart/core and a "root" that provided propulsion

They had metals too, but it was sacred and acquired through an ancient pact with another race. Everything else they had was wood.

All that said, they were a crazy assassin cult of isolationists living in a forest that drove everything non-elf crazy

Good series. Great world building.

What if there is no specialised craftsmen? OP wanted to make elves as non-human as possible. You can do the following - the elves have such connection to inner workings of the realm, that nature itself accommodates their needs. They don't shape trees to grow like that - their mere presence bends nature to be beneficial to them.

Bump for interest

OP bump. Replying soon.

Tremendous questions:
>What do your elves believe in?
Core values: Safety of the village, preservation of the river and fish,

>What is sacred?
The river, the moon, technically the ancient lineage of elves

>What is taboo?
Contact with outsiders; breaking the cycle of change (disrupting natural order and the traditions that protect);

>How is the elves use of magic similar to what humans do, and how is it dissimilar?
The similarity would be that there is little magic that one can do that the other does not.
The difference would be that these elves are deeply communal in regards to learning, teaching, and using magic. Magical skills, potions, and enchantments are considered village resources.
It is seen as a mundane thing that everyone does everyday.

>Do they write or have a purely oral culture?
I dunno...

>How much does their magic complement or replace mundane tools?
Rather than use mechanisms or machines to aid in heavy lifting, they would use potions or spells to enhance workers strength.
Tools are learned and used to hone focus and skill before using them along with magics.
Magic is used whenever it is practical.

>Do families live together in their communal dwellings, are new couples expected to find a new home?
I'm thinking that homes are slowly crafted and when children are born, they begin crafting or restoration of a home for the newborns to establish adult lives. Maybe.

Are children raised primarily by their parents, directly supported by the community.

>How is wealth distributed?
...communism? Gotta work on this.

>What is their social hierarchy?
Supported by tradition, the oldest families command positions of authority in whichever field they favor.
The young and the newer families occupy lower rungs of the social ladder.

>What do they think of foreigners?
They're fine, as long as they stay away from the river.

>How do they defend themselves?
Magical wards, deadly archers, powerful mages, and familiarity with the convoluted terrain.

Bubbles are cool, but they would be mostly for effect in a river, since they aren't exactly Atlantian depths, rights?

I'm loving this.

>nature itself accommodates their needs. They don't shape trees to grow like that - their mere presence bends nature to be beneficial to them.
This is a cool idea, but might be giving the elves too much of an effect in my setting.
Perhaps these particular trees are elf-friends that mold themselves to their desires, but not nature itself?

Take note from beavers, OP
If you want to be more magical i guess you could have them magically grow aquatic trees into beaver-style housing

>My own attempts at this have told me you must cut out most of D&D for it to make sense. At a point it would be dishonest to still relate the two
This is true.
I tried to craft my world so that any character from D&D could port over into my world seamlessly.
But the two are not the same settings.

>If you want to be more magical i guess you could have them magically grow aquatic trees into beaver-style housing
This seems to be the direction I'm going.
Also:
>implying beavers aren't magical

if beavers are magical for simply building housing then so are not only humans, but every single eusocial animal bar army ants as well

what are their ideas on the origins of health and sickness? germ and cell theory seem kind of silly to a society without magnification.

how do they measure wealth or status? you mentioned communism, but there will be variations on that. they'll specialize (because division of labor is just more efficient), so how do they treat those with different jobs? what professions are available and how do you get the training necessary?

...

>what are their ideas on the origins of health and sickness?
All life is a constant struggling cycle to grow, reproduce, and fade towards death.
Sickness is the body failing in that struggle, sometimes from sources of contamination like a dead animal rotting in the water or an unclean animal bite, but sometimes the source that disrupts the cycle of healing and life is unseen and unknown.
In these times, one can only strengthen the body as best that you can and pray the goddess shines fortune upon you.

>how do they measure wealth or status?
Well, if your home is a labryinthine tangle of aquatic trees, some positions in the structure are more pleasant than others.
The oldest families choose the best homes and command the highest positions.
Military, cleansing, and the lesser fishing positions are rarely filled by the higher families unless a particular member seeks it out due to personal inclinations.
Woodweavers are respected, but often never truly among the higher class, much like the reverent fishbringers.
Most resources, such as food, magical assets, and other goods are distributed equally by those in postions of command, which are often held by the eldest members of the older families.
All people in all roles in society are valued for how well they fill that role and maintain their traditions supporting the natural cycle.
A fine slime cleanser is respected as a fine slime cleanser.

>What professions are available and how do you get the training necessary?
Professions are taught in apprenticeship fashion, with the apprentices always being chosen by the teacher or those in position of command.
Professions Available:
Administration; Military Infantry; Military Elite; Fisher Accolyte; Fisher Netter; Fisher Priestess; Woodweaver; Ironwoodwright; Chef; Cleanser; Server; Artificer; Shipwright; Assistant Crack Whore; etc

Any time I need to design a new culture I use this here list of helpful questions: frathwiki.com/Dr._Zahir's_Ethnographical_Questionnaire

>All people in all roles in society are valued for how well they fill that role and maintain their traditions supporting the natural cycle.
>A fine slime cleanser is respected as a fine slime cleanser.
it sounds like that's the ideal, and many historical societies have said such things, but is that how it actually plays out? is that how they describe their society, or is that veneer?

you also stratify society through apprenticeships. apprenticeship societies tend to be familial, so you're sort of creating traditional castes of sorts based on birth, even if it isn't actually codified and made actual law. with older families being of higher status, this is another potential friction point.

it sounds like their culture and way of life encodes the vertical dimension much more than humans do — how do they reflect this? since humans evolved on vast plains, we never look up and make a lot of assumptions about things being on the same level as us. do they, as semi-aquatics who climb trees regularly, have similar habits and physiology transposed, or are you open to alternative bodies?

how are names/family homes/etc. passed on? with multiple children, do homes get built out with an extended family all together 'on one root,' so to say, or do they 'branch out' and establish a new household separate from the old? (or however else you decide they organize their 'streets.' I think that sort of different idiom based on different experience is necessary, though) or do they even have structure family in a way we modern 21st century humans would recognize as family?

is the monogamic 'nuclear family' present? you mentioned they're somewhat fishy — I dunno how far you want to take that, but fish have all sorts of 'interesting arrangements' you could adapt into a humanoid framework. how does courtship occur? what norms are expected of each gender? is it a society still acceptable to modern sensibilities, or are there stricter or looser customs we wouldn't recognize?

Beavers live multifaceted and complex lives.

And as far as animals go, they have about as much impact on the environment as humans.

Sad lives.

>is that how it actually plays out? is that how they describe their society, or is that veneer?
Of course the Administrators respect the slime cleansers for being good slime cleansers, and part of being a good slime cleanser is knowing better than to speak to an Administrator unless spoken to.
Anything otherwise would simply be improper, and we wouldn't want to inform their superiors or elders of any impropriety, would we?

>you also stratify society through apprenticeships. apprenticeship societies tend to be familial, so you're sort of creating traditional castes of sorts based on birth, even if it isn't actually codified and made actual law. with older families being of higher status, this is another potential friction point.
Indeed.

>it sounds like their culture and way of life encodes the vertical dimension much more than humans do — how do they reflect this? since humans evolved on vast plains, we never look up and make a lot of assumptions about things being on the same level as us. do they, as semi-aquatics who climb trees regularly, have similar habits and physiology transposed, or are you open to alternative bodies?
I admit that I did not fully understand this and any response would involve guesswork.
But I am intrigued.

>how are names/family homes/etc. passed on?
Matrilinially.

>With multiple children, do homes get built out with an extended family all together 'on one root,' so to say, or do they 'branch out' and establish a new household separate from the old? (or however else you decide they organize their 'streets.' I think that sort of different idiom based on different experience is necessary, though) or do they even have structure family in a way we modern 21st century humans would recognize as family?
Extended families living within each home, with each young child expected to one day claim a new home for their family, unless they are apprenticing to replace their parent, in which case the cycle of life is observed within the family home.
Each home and family grows an develops organically, often without conscious planning or design.

>is the monogamic 'nuclear family' present? you mentioned they're somewhat fishy — I dunno how far you want to take that, but fish have all sorts of 'interesting arrangements' you could adapt into a humanoid framework. how does courtship occur?
Sex is far less taboo, as reproduction is difficult and seldom accidental, but formal courtship for union and joining of families is taken seriously with long, formal, if not ceremonial, traditions.
Parent and child relationships are somewhat similar to humans, but siblings are often fully grown when the new child is born, so their relationship is one of familial responsibility, rather than closeness.

>What norms are expected of each gender?
Women are deemed better Administrators, Woodweavers, and Fisher Priestesses, but this may be because those positions are less taxing upon the pregnant.
Most Elite Military elves are male, but not by any specific tradition.
If you want a quality healing spell, you seem a female spellslinger, but if you need the best strength buff, you seem a man.
Just the way things are.

>Is it a society still acceptable to modern sensibilities, or are there stricter or looser customs we wouldn't recognize
Sex, nudity, violence upon outsiders are things they don't bat an eye at.
Befowling water, eating any living creature other than fish and crustaceans, disturbing the cycle of nature is abhorrent to them.
They do not understand the structures of other societies, but know that other races choose Administrators foolishly, and therefore treat them cautiously, as they may be fools, madmen, emotional, or all of the above.
They despise the oppression or slavery of any sentient being, and consider any comparison of that to their own society, a deep insult.

I recognize that beaver.

...which can be a helpful skill on Veeky Forums.

>What do your elves believe in?
>Core values
This passage had the most important questions, yet you dodged almost all of them.

Every pre-rationalist society is centered around their place of worship, because that reflects the order of their spiritual worldview. Where and how the worship happens will inform the layout of everything else, other than things that must be away from the settlement for obvious reason, like tanneries, cesspits and meat processing.

Assuming a more or less default Hollywood Ancient Greece approach that d&d uses, I'd center the settlement around a temple. The temple would be open on top, so the moon could shine inside, and on the bottom, so the river can be seen, heard and smelled. The walls would be decorated by stylized representations of the elven mythology, with their mythological descent being central. Places of honor 'inconspicuously' given to fairly local dignitaries and benefactors of the temple. Worship is done communally, at night, and change depending on the phases of the moon, with full moon being a blessed time and no moon a time of peril.

The settlement itself would consists of homes on stilts, made from simple materials but proofed against weather in the open, for all of it is out on the water, the more desirable locations are those the furthest to the shore. The most desirable location is reserved for the temple. If the settlement is large enough there would be more than one temple. Next to the temple are the homes of revered noble families. Due to intense traditionalism the ideal form of the settlement would mirror Aquinas' city on the hill, where everything is visible to the gods, to the outsiders, and among the citizens themselves. The temple and the noble homes would be tall and storied, with terraces and open windows, then the homes of the lesser folk become more humble as you descend towards the shore. Everyone is expected to have their dealings out in the open, where they can be honored (or judged).

>Do they write or have a purely oral culture?
>I dunno...
Second most important question, but eh.

Assuming d&d again, they'd have a writing system, and use fairly standardized magic, so there's no reason to elaborate on that.

Accent placed on teaching the magic freely rather than treating it as a secret to be passed on from master to apprentice, magic use would be common.

It would be important to explain how their magic and spiritual traditions mix, but I don't think there is any way to make that work with d&d magic, so don't even bother with that one.

>Tools are learned and used to hone focus and skill before using them along with magics.
This doesn't work too well, since d&d magic generally replaces mundane skills rather than complementing them. If knowing prestidigitation is the norm, having to use a broom is a sign that you were too dumb or too lazy to learn basic cantrips. I guess I'd explain it as another tradition carried down from the times before widespread use of arcane magic, where proving that you are able to to take care of yourself was not just a coming of age ritual. So, it's somewhat socially inappropriate to use magic when hard work will do, but at some point it's considered dumb to do hard work when magic would do.

>...communism?
I was thinking of property laws. But, since communities that don't actively trade with foreigners make do well enough on barter economy, and since your elves consider a lot of produced wealth common property, I'd extend that to nearly everything. But I can't extrapolate on how contributors are treated and how social standing affects that, so I can't tell you how that will affect the look of the settlement. Other that all of it will be made with at least advice of the best craftsmen, since skills and knowledge are common goods as well.

One more bump for poachable ideas

tl;dr for the thread. So if this has already been discussed take it as a supporting vote:

Skip the human-accommodations in it. Make the village underwater. Think woven basket meets beaver damn. Built in fishing nets that are communal food sources. Lighting is provided by magical algea where needed, but I imagine low-light vision ties with the semi-aquatic elf thing. Because they breath air, include a system used to generate and recycle oxygen/whatever gas they breathe in pockets at the ceilings of major and minor structures.

Perhaps have a greeting/entry built into the roof that has a flexible bouy system at the top, out of the water. This requires any non-elves to put themselves at great risk to enter the murky depths. Flowing water keeps food and waste constantly shifting, and mud/root/reed structures allow for slowed and controlled currents and protection. Most walls allow water flow through major areas/avenues of travel. There are some more major structures eith internal gardens grown to support addition food and public spaces. These can be used by humans who have gained access, but maintains the submarine danger where flooding and what not are major risks.

But by making the community self-sufficient and cooperative you can aid it in staying secluded and not having the same social and economic requirements human villages tend to have.

These posts are diamonds.

>It would be important to explain how their magic and spiritual traditions mix, but I don't think there is any way to make that work with d&d magic, so don't even bother with that one.
>This doesn't work too well, since d&d magic generally replaces mundane skills rather than complementing them.
This would be where we cite >My own attempts at this have told me you must cut out most of D&D for it to make sense. At a point it would be dishonest to still relate the two
To be "honest", the magic system no longer much resembles D&D as I made it make too much sense.
The closest analog I know would be GURPS thaumatology, but not quite.
I didn't want to get mired in the system as my thoughts were far more fluff related.

>This passage had the most important questions, yet you dodged almost all of them.
Not done intentionally, though.

Excellent post that incorporates with the other ideas well.

This might work very well in a sea, and for beavers. For human-sized people who want to build a submerge village, not so much. Water flow would exert immense strain on buildings, soil would keep piling up against everything, and any river large enough to contain a submerged village would be slow, murky, and prone to carrying lots of trees and dead animals during stormy seasons. Then, there's the inability to write underwater, and to use fire.

>Then, there's the inability to write underwater, and to use fire.
Yes, you're right.
That raises further questions.

Maybe they only dwell underwater occasionally, for religious reasons, and normally live in surface dwellings. Maybe the times of peril
mentions are a mythological fossil of some ancient disaster that happened on a moonless night, the only survivors of which were those who hid underwater, breathing through reeds like anecdotal ancient Slavs until the enemy had gone. And so they seek shelter beneath the river's surface, only emerging to continue their normal lives after the young moon emerges or the priests make an auspicious reading.

Of course, for a friendless people who live in small settlements deep in the wilderness, underwater hideouts would also have a very practical purpose. Women and children hide inside, warriors wait underwater to tie rocks to legs of would-be attacker so that the river would claim them. This would also be a good excuse to have your elves to love spears rather than swords, for a change.

>This would also be a good excuse to have your elves to love spears rather than swords, for a change.
I also like the idea of the elves stabbing intruders through gaps in the root bridges and spearing fish.
Yeah. I'm digging spear elves.