Warhammer 40k General:

>A devastator squad seems fun but I don't really know what special weapons to put in it.
For competitive, do grav. Esspecially grav cents
For non-competive take whatever you want.

>115

130. Fucked that up.

Reposting from last thread. Following up from last night. The change from the last list to this one was that I removed the Interceptors and a terminator squad in place of the new Paladin squad.

>I should really just start editing the .PDFs and release an updated codex

Start with taking 5 points of the base cost of every squad with a Champion in it. A mandatory leader that brings 1 additional attack and a rule that says he can't deny challenges should not be 10 points on every squad, including cultists.

Cultist Champions may upgrade to Rouge Witches, gaining Psyker 1 and losing 1 attack and LD, for 20 points.

Give Forgefiends and Maulerfiends a "Quadruped" rule that lets them re-roll immobilization results.

Give Havok Champions a piece of Wargear that lets the unit effectively threaten fliers.

Lets Rhinos and Land Raiders take vehicle wargear that allows units to deep strike out of them, as though they were disembarking. Fluff it as a warp portal inside the shell.
Allow it to make use of rules like Assault Vehicle, so your 20 man blob of marines can begin play in position to assault.

While we're on vehicle wargear, Daemonic Possession doesn't eat models on a 6, but you can sacrifice one model inside during the movement phase to restore a hull point.
Additionally, a vehicle that kills at least one model with a tank shock maneuver, or kills a model in the assault phase, restores one hull point.

Raptors down to 16 per model.
Warp Talons down to 27 per model.
Possessed down to 23 per model.
Terminators down to 29 per model.
Warpsmiths down to 100.
Dark Apostles down to 90.
Chaos Lord down to 60.

VotLW grants Hatred (Imperials) instead of Hatred (Space Marines).
Icons of Vengence go down in price by 5 across the board, with the exception of Possessed.
Terminators are Fearless.

...

It's not competitive.

Don't mix your heavy weapon types in a dev squad. Make sure you have guys with just bolters in there to take wounds for the important dudes.

Missile Launchers are versatile. Lascannons will give you decent anti-tank. Multi-meltas are too short-ranged to be ideal, but if you're not worried about that for whatever reason, then they're not bad.

Point-for-point, Grav-cannons are your best bet, because they mulch everything (thanks, Grav-amp!). Only downsides are their high cost and that they've only got a 24" range, but thanks to being Salvo 3/5 you can still move and pump out shots. Run them in a rhino or razorback, pop out and murdelize anything that needs it.

>Rouge Witches
It's spelled "Rogue," silly traitor scum

Its always fun to play the typical Veeky Forums mathammer expert down at the local shop. He always has the odds calculated for him, and then he gets surprised when he finds out its a dice game with actual strategy.

After a good whoop ass, and some clean up he stills deny defeat with a "you know, it shouldn't had gone that way according to my papers....".

Good advice.

Miscellaneous question. Should I build SM or Dangels? No particular reason why it matters but I can't really make up my mind.

Something something Khorne something blood something something psyker.
I got nothin'.

I don't know, the google results for that are about as heretical.

Great post, this would really fit well with my house rules. I wouldn't mind playing something like this.

Which has fluff that you enjoy more? Is there a particular chapter of regular Space Marines that appeals to you?

Dark Angels and their descendants are fairly unique in their iconography and story. The benefit of going with one of the "special" space marine armies is that they get both their own rules and unique miniatures. Dark Angels' ravenwing bikes can look pretty impressive, and the dork angels have unique models for pretty much everything.

The benefit of regular space marines is that it's easier to make up your own chapter. If you don't care for standard schemes or stories, you can always make up your own.

I'd spend time reading about each option before I made any decisions.

Ok then, what ever you want.

That does fuckall to actually help CSM. Thy still have leadership issues, try still can't get into CC, and they're still wildly overcosted for what they can do.

I definitely like how, instead of actually fixing things, you decided to just stop trying to fix the units that people called you out on.

How bout mechanicum?

>oh hey CSM here we'll copy paste the loyalist psychic powers
h-hey geedubs, can you copypaste the gladius strikeforce too?
>no. we're going to take even more effort to give you an infinitely worse decurion.
t-thanks gw

That depends on a few questions:
Whose fluff do you like more? What type of playstyle do you like? Whose your favorite primarch, including every chaos one but lorgar, since all lf them have a loyalist chapter? What chapter are you looking at for C:SM? Any models you like in paticular?

Again, probably a little difficult for a noob just because they don't have a lot of options available to them. No transports, for instance.

But, really, 40k's a pretty simple game. A new player can probably figure it out and understand how to deal with the problems an army has unless they're a complete idiot.

>can you copy paste a detachment that is unique to codex compliant chapters?
Moron. CSM players bitched for months about how you didn't get the AoD powers. Now you got them and it's still not enough. For Christ's sake, just play C:SM with CSM models if you want the C:SM stuff so badly.

All you all do is bitch about the chaosy stuff anyways.

how is a wulfen team in killteam?

Well, yeah, I'd wanna come up with my own chapter, but I can do that regardless of which codex I run. I just wanna know if either of them are better suited for a bike focus. Gotta admit some of the Dangel models are pretty fuckin' sweet, like their ravenwing bikes.
>Whose your favorite primarch, including every chaos one but lorgar, since all lf them have a loyalist chapter?
probably Mortarion or Magnus
>Any models you like in paticular?
Is there a codex with good Dreadnoughts? Dreadnoughts are sweet. Otherwise any and all bikes

Stupid looking.

>inb4 GW apologists and shitposters try to tell you that free VotLW and a free boon every turn is a major game changer for chaos and that you should STFU and be happy that your army is still the second worst in the game
>inb4 retards try to argue that Codex: Flyrants and Codex: Corpethief Claw are worse than CSM

Yet another thread claimed for Chaos!

Let the nonstop bitching begin, my brothers!

Name the last release that Codex: Corpsethief Claw got. Be happy that GW is at least trying to appease you in one way or another.

>Is there a codex with good Dreadnoughts? Dreadnoughts are sweet

Iron Hands get tough dreadnoughts thanks to their Chapter Tactics. Blood Angels get a couple of cool dreadnought variations. Space Wolves dreads can have axes and shields.

>who cares that my army is better than CSM, even with all the new shitty CSM formations! at least you got shitty new formations!
what was your point?

They aren't trying to appease us. They're trying to bilk us for money by shitting out many half-assed books as they can, never mind whether they actually add new content or have writers that give a shit.

>Access to fearless is cheaper
>Every single goddamn marine unit is cheaper
>Land Raiders can dump 20 CCW armed MoK marines into the enemy lines with Warp portal

Not every army should have free fearless in some way or shape. They have 9 leadership with those mandatory leaders.
Getting to CC should be the challenge of a CC force. The other side does need a chance to shoot back, otherwise there is no real way they'd ever win. Right now, it's more because GW is giving every army large blasts at high strength with low AP for cheap. Shooting is too good because they keep buffing super shooty codexes.
They perform just as well in combat as loyalists, barring chapter tactics, and are one point cheaper. They're supposed to shine when you have large units with icons, marks, and support, but, as stated above, it's not going to always work.

CSM aren't supposed to be Loyalists-but-with-Demon-Powers-and-Bonus-Stats. They need to have weaknesses and strengths.

I will, however, admit to abandoning Mutilators when asked. No points or power switch will fix a heavy melee only specialist unit in small squads, with Slow and Purposeful.

No. Fuck that shit. Chaos has had it's time, now it's getting old. So in the interest of actually having some real discussion:
What are you working on Veeky Forums? Played any games recently? Plan on playing any soon?
And a special bonus question today:
What is your favorite list you've ever ran, and why? Doesn't have to a good list or bad one, a fluffy list of WAAC one, just your absolute favorite list you've ever ran.

Blood angels and space wolves can have all dread armies. And with the attack buff they recently got they are both Lilly as fuck in melee

Almost had a game last week, ended up being the odd man out and the one who everyone asked for rules clarifications since the normal guy wasn't there. Was fine, if one of the guys hadn't walked out with my codex instead of his. Not sure when I'll get it back.

Favorite list was probably the one based off the first stuff I ever ran.
Vulkan, 2 Tac squads with stupid loadouts, sniper scouts, hammer terminators in land raider, sternguard, and a dreadnought. The sternguard and dreadnought had to share a drop pod so they swapped every other match. Not competitive, but nostalgic and fun to play.

drop pods

Why does everyone scream when they don't get a Gladius equivalent now? You guys do know that its complete and utter bullshit, right? That it shouldn't exist? That no one else really does anything like that? That its all a stupid ploy to sell Rhino/Razorback kits?

That you consider this the default state of the game then turn around and whine about WAAC and tournaments is frankly disgusting.

Finished painting my start collecting tempestus today

Left to right: Head of Security, Warden, Security

>probably Mortarion or Magnus
Well the 1k sons succesors are well known, the blood ravens. For the death gaurd Sons of Antaeus are heavily implied to be DG succesors. So if you want to play a chaoter based on the geneseed of those primarchs, there you go.
>Is there a codex with good Dreadnoughts?
C:SM. Ironclad is the toughest and most survivable dread there is. BA are the most killy, but that also requires you to play BA who have their own huge mess of problems.
As for bikes, both Dangles and C:SM can do bikes well. They have different styles of bike lists, but raven wing is with out a doubt the strongest way to play Dangles, and one of the strongest ways to play C:SM.

>rare, internecine space marines blessed by the chaos gods are supposed to be a horde army
Ah, you're on of those retards.

The basic CSM squad is still as expensive as their loyalist equivalent despite being significantly worse. Our upgrades are still overcosted for what they provide. Our psychic disciplines (y'know, our actual disciplines and not the copy paste from AoD) are still fucked. We still have no way to get into CC. Yes, you shouldn't be able to instantly with no way to prevent it, but CSM can't do it at all currently, and you've done absolutely fuck all to help with it.

Firstly, no it's not. It's fluffy. Powerful if abused? Of course. But the answer isn't to limit options for players, but to not play with morons who abuse it.
More options and bonuses for people is always a good thing.
>That its all a stupid ploy to sell Rhino/Razorback kits?
Rhino and razorback strikeforces are not what makes gladius strong. At least learn what actually makes gladius good before you start saying it should be done away with.

>Working on
I'm "Working on" my Pathfinders, aka I need to stop browsing the web for 5 minutes so I can get back to painting
>Plan to play
Hoping to play against my friend when he comes back from college for the weekend after next.
>Favorite list
I don't really have one, although the one I did quite enjoy was a Corsairs+DE+Haem Covens list I beat my buds Necrons with.

Did you thin your paints?

Go look at Duncan Rhodes' videos on painting scions. Don't need to use the same colors, but follow his general advice.

Try to thin out your paints a bit more next time. You could give the commissar another wash.

They're fine for an early paint job. Keep practicing!

Weaker armies should be getting superior formations and detachments to counter balance it. Or they should get new codexes.

Instead, GW is continuing to bloat the game with more and more mini-dexes. Meanwhile, the most powerful factions are doubling down with extremely powerful formations and detachments while the weaker codexes are getting shitty ones.

Waagh Ghazkull and the trio of shitty CSM books should have been extremely pushed in order to bring their factions up to snuff. Instead they were full of mediocre, poorly-thought-out crap.

I agree that giving us free models is a shitty marketing tactic. This has been true since the Chaos Boons table was released and had a pair of results that literally just kill your dude if you don't own particular models.

2000pts, Iron Warriors 99th Grand Company

++ Helfist Murderpack ++
4xHelbrute [Reaper autocannon]+ [Power fist [Heavy flamer]

Helbrute Champion [2x Power scourge] (Warlord)

2x ++ Mayhem Pack ++
3x Helbrute [Multi-melta]+ Power fist [Heavy flamer]

++ Hellforged Warpack ++

Warpsmith [Bolt Pistol, Power Axe]

Forgefiend [Two Hades Autocannon]

Forgefiend [Two Hades Autocannon]

Maulerfiend [Lasher tendrils]

Maulerfiend [Lasher tendrils]

Not him, but I wish I could nail paint consistency on my wet palette. Most of the time it's too thin so when I apply it to the model it just pools up and it ends up with uneven layers. If I don't thin it to around that point it feels too thick.

I am almost done building a Getting Started: Necrons box and a box of Wraiths. I picked up a box of Immortals and the codex today. Looking to play some games in the 700-1000 area next week. And then when I get some more time off, I'll probably start priming and blocking out the units for paint jobs. Nothing too fancy, just a variation on the default scheme. I bought them to have a simple, solid army with an easy paint scheme I can relax while painting. Needed a break from all the red and gold in my other armies.

Paint's look a bit to thick. Nothing too bad, but you should try and thin it out a tad more next time.

>Every Chaos Space Marine is supposed to be better than Loyalists
>What are renegades
>What is fluff vs crunch

A Space Marine is supposed to be the equal to 100 guardsmen, but he'd never make it past overwatch.

I can understand where you're coming from with the traitor legions, but devoting yourself to chaos isn't going to give you a blanket immediate buff.
The ancient ones that are blessed by chaos gods are the one with Marks, to make them faster, tougher, more fortunate, or more violent.
If you want your super army, you have cult units, chosen, even standard marines with marks. They'll all win out against an equal number of marines.

Basic Chaos renegade rabble, however, should be less disciplined, have less cohesiveness, and be more brutal. When YOU invest those points into them, you're having them rise above the rabble and making YOUR DUDES the big badasses.
Hell, even just spending the points to outfit your dudes with CCWs means you'll win against loyalists.

>Hell, even just spending the points to outfit your dudes with CCWs means you'll win against loyalists.
>because CCWs will make the grav cannons not kill you

This.

Cult and Chosen are more accurate and close to what an actual Veteran of the Long War is. Everyone else is replacement recruits, and yes CSM do recruit new astartes into their ranks, often from recovering their old gene seed or (more commonly) raiding other astartes and stealing their geneseed.

>Every Chaos Space Marine is supposed to be better than Loyalists
Equal or better in skill and training. Generally lower in gear, but with higher extremes. Of course, they should pay for it. As it is now, the lack of Chapter Tactics or ATSKNF means that base CSM are vastly inferior to their loyalist counterparts and the mandatory challenge bait means that we pay as much for our guys as they do.

>>What is fluff vs crunch
Given how shitty this game's crunch is, that's an awful argument.
>They'll all win out against an equal number of marines.
No, they won't. They'll get gutted, because the free chapter tactics are superior to every mark that isn't Nurgle, and even that one's debatable. The marine's superior equipment (namely Grav, although Pods and Razorbacks also play a role) just tilt it even further in the loyalist's favor.
>Basic Chaos renegade rabble, however, should be less disciplined, have less cohesiveness, and be more brutal.
But they aren't more brutal. They're just straight worse.

Jesus, you actually think paying the 2 PPM for CCW will result in wins?

>Jesus, you actually think paying the 2 PPM for CCW will result in wins?
nobody tell him about space sharks getting CCWs for +1 point while having ATSKNF, grav, and free transports

SW also have to pay 2 PPM for their CCW's. I don't like to bring up Space Sharks, since it weakens the argument. It's essentially just bringing up the "free" Chapter Tactics point again, since the CCW's are essentially being subsidized by their relatively weak CT.

>since the CCW's are essentially being subsidized by their relatively weak CT.
which is still better than the CSM chapter tactic, which is nonexistent.

also space wolves get insanely powerful not!juggernauts of khorne and insanely powerful not!pocessed, with formations that make both of them even stronger

In 5th, when parking lot was at it's height I ran an Ork Monstertrukk list. Driving through forests and over chimeras was fun. Using Grot tanks and warbuggies to act as mobile cover and bubble wrap for my bigger vehicles.

With Fleshmetal Hide, a biker sorceror of Nurgle can bump himself and his unit to T7. Probably not worth pursuing but could be fun. The effect seems to permanent too

No, the CCWs won't make shooting, which is a real damn problem in the current scene, stop killing everything.
Each mark gives them an advantage, but if you give a shooty squad MoK, then you're not using the advantage, like you'd not be using the ability to deal twice the hits as a loyalist if your CCW guy isn't in close combat.

MoS lets the melee army strike first every assault phase. MoK makes for a more violent round, and reduces the penalty for being charged. MoN is just plain good at having your dudes not die. The only iffy one is Tzeentch, but it shines when places on models that have an invulnerable save to improve.
If you pay for an upgrade and don't get use out of it, then somewhere something has gone astray. Either you failed to get them into combat, or were denied the chance to.
But, if you were both in combat, both fresh out the gate, you'd have utterly stomped them. You're paying for the chance to stomp them if you can get into melee, which, once again, is an uphill slog in this edition. Free melee starters would just flip it completely around, with ranged firepower being useless since you can warp rift into their asshole and assault on turn one.

Also, why bitch about not having broken shit? No one says anything positive about Grav. All anyone says is that it's too good, or utter bullshit.
You may as well bitch that CSM don't have scatter lasers on every jetbike. Don't base what you want off the shit that infuriates everyone already.

>What is your favorite list you've ever ran, and why? Doesn't have to a good list or bad one, a fluffy list of WAAC one, just your absolute favorite list you've ever ran.

Black Templar Terminator Missile Spam, shit was cash because it was nothing but 5 man Termies with two Cyclone Missile Launchers and 5 man crusader squads with a missile launcher and all the termies walked forward shooting shit and whatever they caught in close combat fucking died.

Yeah I was fine with the Thunder Wolves.
Wolfen are everything Possessed should be though.
I'm pretty damn jealous of those wolfen.

Coolest Traitor Chapter?

>Also, why bitch about not having broken shit?
because like half of the armies in the game have broken shit. several of them being literally just space marines directly comparable to CSM. yet here we are playing paddycake with ork players at the bottom of barrel while literally 3 other SM books (SM,SW,DA) are out stomping the toughest lists, no problem.

>Yeah I was fine with the Thunder Wolves.
i wasnt. we've had khornelords on juggernaughts for like 30 years yet the faggot ass furry legion is a fucking unit of guys on juggernaughts while we get jack shit.
>I'm pretty damn jealous of those wolfen.
their very existence infuriates me

>hey loyalists want to play a closecombat focussed CSM army? heres the totally loyalists space wolves guys, enjoy. buy all these new $20 models goyim
fuck everything about sw

>You may as well bitch that CSM don't have scatter lasers on every jetbike

I'm putting together a bunch of jetbikes now. Considered magnetizing the weapons on them but I'm not crazy with how that turns out.

How many scatter lasers is too many for a fun game, do you think? I have no interest in the tourney scene and my local metas aren't filled with Riptides or Wraithknights.

I built a mold for boyz so im working on casting a 300+ strong green tide

Favorite list is probably my orky airforce.

14 planes

>Also, why bitch about not having broken shit?
Why respond to things that nobody said?

MoS and MoK are both totally based on getting into CC, and they're both mediocre for their cost.

MoN is good, but it's overpriced on most units that can buy it. MEQ durability upgrades tend to be overvalued because the things that are good at killing MEQ's are still good at killing T5 MEQ's.

MoTz is shit on most of the units that can buy it.

>But, if you were both in combat, both fresh out the gate, you'd have utterly stomped them.
So, in the magical Christmasland of things that will never happen, CSM can do okay. But in the real world, they'll just get cut to ribbons because they're severely outnumbered thanks to everything being overpriced and being incapable of getting into CC.
>Free melee starters would just flip it completely around, with ranged firepower being useless since you can warp rift into their asshole and assault on turn one.
The Assault Marines are the least powerful part of the Skyhammer, and the Shadowstrike Kill Team (in the detachment) let's Vanguard Vets assault turn 1 with a perfect deep strike and it's still not very good. Even if the Raptor formation let them assault without it being disordered, the formation would still only be okay. They'd still be praying to dice gods to come in early, and they'd still be liable to deep strike mishap, and they'd still be paying a premium for their units. The disordered charge limitation just guts the formation, and it's a limitation that loyalists don't have despite being the less CC oriented army.

Iron Warriors.

Iron Within, Iron Without.

Word Bearers.

Thousand Sons.

I don't know too much about all of the Traitor Legions/Chapters, but I personally like Alpha Legion.

For non legion I'm partial to the Corpus Brethren, though their fluff is really little more than a snipet.
They were the "ever-vigilant" Sentinels chapter, and they were wrongly sent on a Penitent Crusade for charges of mutation/corruption that they were innocent of.
Ultimately, the "ever vigilant" marines failed to realize they made planet fall on an world in the Eye of Terror that was actually a gargantuan man. Their slaughtering of goat-headed cultists and eventual combat with Noise Marines woke the planet up, which swallowed all of them.
When they were finally regurgitated back into reality they were unrecognizable as loyalists, and their only characteristic is they are cannibalistic and depraved.
Naturally I fill in the gaps with my own head canon.

Is there a compilation of the new formations anywhere?

Don't Word Bearers have those special Possessed, Gal Vorbak or something? They can "turn" the possession on and off and shit.
Okay, THAT is fucking badass. Where'd you read that?

I think Blood Angels should sue the Space Wolves over the Wulfen. They're an obvious copy of the Death Company. Also Murderfang is an obvious copy of Cassor the Damned.

Also I want Wolf Claws. BA could call them Blood Claws OH WAIT

My local redshirt seems to be gearing up to banning Forgeworld at the shop

RIP my 4000 points of Kreigers

And 6000 points of 30k EC

imgur.com/a/GwGSt
Doesn't have all of them

A games workshop shop is going to ban games workshop models?

Saying this as a space marine,
How do you think a few psychic powers make up for an entire editions worth of fuck you?

Thanks babe

hahaha is that the face from the bends

It's detailed in Codex: Chaos Space Marines, page 18 under "an ill fated odyssey" which recounts some of the other tales of "The Judged," a group of 30 Chapters that were sent to their damnation/obliteration under false pretenses.

Speaking of black Templars, running 100 of them on foot was the shit in fourth edition. Whether or not it was good the black tide was still fun to play.

They cant sell forgeworld at the store, so every dollar spent there is a dollar they dont make

I honestly cant blame them with how shitty their sales quotas are. I blame GW for creating this retarded dynamic where I have to choose between supporting the store or buying what i want

Complain to corporate; they'll get straightened out right quick.

Reminds me of a match I saw a few months after 6th dropped. The Black Templar player and Ork player were tired of playing the local WAAC fags and set up a 2000pt match. Nothing but infantry models of all kinds, no vehicles, a few bits of terrain in the deployment zones with a big empty killing field in the center.

Was cool as shit, both guys got into it and it was a massive slug fest. I had to leave before they finished, but was a nice change of pace. Wish I could find someone at my shop who'd be willing to do that.

Any Khorne Daemonkin players lurking ITT who can criticize this?

+++ New Roster (1000pts) +++

++ Chaos - Khorne Daemonkin (Formation Detachment) ++

+ Formation +

Gorepack
Chaos Bikers [3x Bikers]
Biker Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]
Chaos Bikers [3x Bikers]
Biker Champion [Bolt Pistol, Close Combat Weapon]
Flesh Hounds [5x Flesh Hounds]
Flesh Hounds [6x Flesh Hounds]

Slaughtercult
Bloodletters [8x Bloodletters]
Bloodletters [8x Bloodletters]
Chaos Cultists [7x Cultists, 7x Replace Autopistol with Autogun]
Cultist Champion [Autopistol]
Chaos Cultists [7x Cultists]
Cultist Champion [Autopistol]
Chaos Lord [Axe of Khorne, Combi-Bolter, Sigil of Corruption, Terminator Armour, Warlord]
Possessed [Chaos Rhino, 4x Possessed, Possessed Champion]

Tell me Veeky Forums, have you ever had a game where you were certain from the get go that you would lose, but the dice were on your side/the opponent made a fatal mistake?

Pic related was the last time that's happened to me. Pic explains itself, but I still somehow pulled a win out of my ass. The mauler here was the MVP, had just made a 11 inch charge and wiped out Shadowsun and her stealth team, then miraculously made his invul saves when the stealth cadre went to fuck him up

Have faith, Word Bearer.

Chaos Warband + Helforged Hunting Pack a good base for a CSM army?

Thats every game as Orks

I run everything in battlewagons and drive them up the board as fast as possible.

At most my opponent has one turn to react before im on him and I pray he makes mistakes

first of all
>grey

now that thats out of the way, that maulerfiend deserves a fucking promotion
i like to decorate units that pull off MVP shit by painting them a little mark or something to distinguish them from everyone else