MTG Standard General

What's even the Standard meta right now? Is it worth trying to get back into Standard once Kaladesh rolls in?

I only play Limited and EDH right now

Right now?

Collected Company dominates fucking everything.

That rotates once Kaladesh hits though and I don't think anyone has an accurate picture of what Standard will be once that happens.

G/B had a pretty good show against CoCo, and it doesn't lose that much, so it will still be strong.
The emerge decks also don't lose much, so expect some of that.

Losing CoCo will mean the power of the 2-3 drop value creatures it used will drop some. Which I hope will open up more aggressive red decks. Spot removal just wasn't that good against CoCo decks, because it gave them card advantage and let them dig to keep putting out those creatures that the aggressive deck would need to fight through.

This is true but there wont be coco and the like, a lot of the new good cards are fatter. I feel the set is aiming for a more battleship approach so setting up a better mana base to fire off better spells will be more effective. Also the overlooked herald of kozilek and a couple devoid spells could fill the void the gap. R for 2 and exile still reactivates your alchemist, removes a titi ice counter, making brutal expulsion a cancel that shocks and makes some of the artifacts more playable

opps i got all retard there in the middle

I wonder if Stormchaser Mage will be good enough to play.

Definately in izzet vehicles, theyll trigger prowess and the special vehicle pump will allow you to go nuts, the only thing you lose is the bully which actually has no downsides and makes your opponent open to bad plays.

Thought on the Shaheen Soorani Esper control list he's been running in multiple SCG events now?

Been winning with it a ton in ranked XMage lobbies, but htat doesn#t really say much.

I've been jamming as many games as I can with UR mill until tutelage rotates. Actually been consistently going 3-1 or better with it at my lgs, though to be fair, most of the regulars are so sick of coco that they stopped bringing it to events. I'm going to miss the look on my opponent's face when they cast emrakul and see my hand of nothing but lands and draw spells with tutelage and visions on the field; granted, that only happened the one time but it was sweet, now they just don't bother casting emrakul if I've got tutelage out.

Just did 3-1 at FNM with this last night

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/3-1-fnm-rw-midrange-angel/

Sooo, shuffling, I'm curious.

strawpoll.me/11196109/r

Personally I do a mixed overhand/weave thing. Basically a bunch of cuts, periodically pushing the cuts together side-on so they weave together.

1 pile shuffle and 8 mashes. Kmcs make it the superior shuffle and will keep your cards safe from anything, even the cops.

Weave is how I've labelled Mash shuffling, sorry if it's misleading. But yeah, I pile once then mash+overhand for ~30 seconds to a minute.

I'm brewing a mono white humans deck based around equipment synergy. I'm debating whether I should throw some green in for the general human synergy they have but I'm at such an early stage with this it doesn't really matter that much. tappedout.net/mtg-decks/equipment-humans-1/

>lupine prototype goes very well with crew

I might have to buy a set and see if it goes anywhere

tappedout.net/mtg-decks/the-evolutionary-tree-em/

This is my evolutionary toolbox. The One-Ofs are for evolving straight into. I've also got a werewolf variant.

3x Beastcaller Savant
1x Dragonlord Atarka
1x Dragonlord Kolaghan
3x Gnarlwood Dryad
1x Hermit of the Natterknolls Flip
1x Mirrorwing Dragon
1x Mournwillow
3x Permeating Mass
1x Reclamation Sage
1x The Gitrog Monster
3x Tireless Tracker
1x Ulrich of the Krallenhorde Flip
3x Cinder Glade
2x Evolving Wilds
1x Foreboding Ruins
7x Forest
2x Game Trail
1x Hissing Quagmire
6x Mountain
2x Swamp
2x Soul Separator
2x Arlinn Kord Flip
4x Eldritch Evolution
3x Languish
3x Prey Upon
2x Traverse the Ulvenwald

r8 h8?

>pic related, a good 5 drop etb

>people actually weaving.

I wish I could play against you, just to fuck up all your draws.

>humans deck
>no Thalia's Lieutenant
>no always watching
>chaplain's blessing in a non limited deck (Blessed Alliance exists)

If it's gonna be a kitchentable deck then it looks like something fun to play, but I wouldn't bring it to any fnm.

Eldritch Evolution is absolutely gonna spike when CoCo is out of the picture, I'm getting my playset now while I can.

Also Dragons of Tarkir is rotating too you doofus.

My hands feel quite consistently random and well distributed honestly.

Weave = Mash in this context.

>want to get back into Magic
>friend tells me local FNM has an "above average" skill level compared to most he's seen
>was going to buy pic related
>only buy one booster a week

Is it even worth getting into Magic if I only want to drop $20 to start, and only a couple bucks each week after that? Or should I try and build a shitty EDH deck for $30?

Go edh route. You can't even buy a manabase for 20$

>wah wah red is the artifact color why no artifact stuff in Kaladash
>wah wah red is all about artifacts now

Red mages are never happy, are they?

Went 3-1 on last FNM and 4-0 the one before with RW Equiped Allies.
The deck already paid itself, and now I'm looking to get Gideon, Ally of Zendikar for the sideboard.

I spent like 3 months building a white weenie deck and I'll get to use it ONCE before it rotates .

Any formats Flip Giddeon, Anafenza the ghost, Dragonhorn Hunter and Knight of the White Orchard are useful in?

Yeah, EDH, Tiny Leaders and a subpar Modern List (except for Anafenza, that sees play in Abzan Company).
Also a subpar legacy list. Dragonhorn Hunter is shit, tho.

When did this happen? I though blue was artifacts and white was equipment.

White is still equipment, but we have Daretti, never forgetti.

Doesn't the box come with mana?

There is always a card that I want to see gone in every standard season.
In Khans and Fate reforged rotation I wanted to see Ugin gone so bad, not even meme Rhino compared.
Now it's time for Company to say goodbye, Company itself dosen't make me salty, Company into 2 Reflector Mages or a Reflector and a Thalia, that shit grinds my gears.

Well, you can always try a budget RDW and pray for the best.
You'll be able to tweak it to the meta and splash a color as you trade/buy stuff.

What about playing fnm draft every two weeks costwise?

wah wah's aren't one person, user

>see card thats capable of being lots of damage
>to target creature or planeswalker only :^)

So, between the last reprinting of lightning bolt and today what exactly happened?

RDW looks alright coming up, so long as the one drop for Kaladesh fits the energy theme.

Light green splash for voltaic brawler, which can come mainly of the uncommon land (because it also fits well with the energy theme).
The Chandra's will be expensive, but you can build it without them.

depending on the place, ~$15 every two weeks, minus what you can get for prizes and reselling.
~$10 if you are lucky and good, $13 isn't too hard.

He means Rare dual lands. Prairie Stream, Port Town, etc. Not to mention utility lands if your deck runs them.

The mana base for my CoCo deck before I traded in my rotatoes was $25.

In Kaladesh Standard it will be Lashweed Lurker and Elder Deep-Fiend. Maybe Eldritch Evolution or Rashmi, Eternities Crafter too.

well, the reprinting of lightning bolt was never meant to be an indication that it was the new standard.
It was meant to be a unique bump, and a test. The test showed, surprise, it's really fucking good.

There has also been a push towards making cards that are good at specific things better, but having to pay more for things that are good early, mid and late.

People mistook "we aren't going to have cards like Doomblade" as meaning that there would be no cheap removal, and all removal as bad.
What it meant was that 2 drop removal won't be able to hit everything, For that effect it's 3cmc. When removal is weak, that's murder, when it's stronger, that's murder+upside (heroes downfall etc).

So burn gets to be very good when it's got a restriction. But burn that kills small creatures, but can be aimed at the face for the win late game fits the "good early, mid and late" problem. So that stuff either costs at least 3, or is focused towards creature removal, or pays for that versality somewhere (like incendiary flow being a sorcery).

this is why I think Harness Lightning is going to be good.
If you're throwing it at the targets that will get emerged from, you'll be up energy so it's not overkill. Later you can spend extra mana and still be able to kill lurker, and deep-fiend.

Is black going to get a board clear to replace languish or what?

They just printed a 1 mana counterspell that shuts down emerge decks. I don't think it's going to be as big of a problem as its made out to be

Well
>will black get a spell that says "all creatures get -X/-X" or similar
most likely, there is typically a card like this in standard.
It's possible that the new demon and biting rain is counting as this, at least until Aether Revolt, but I personally doubt it.

However, I don't know how big or how good that card will be.
I suspect it will either be more expensive than 4cmc, or have different restriction so it's not killing all x/4's.

The demon seems good enough, like Tireless Tracker he's both a generator and an engine all on a decent flying body.

The fact that you don't need to play him in an energy focused deck means he might be a common 1-2 of in any black deck

Another fun thing about that demon is if you're using the artifact that doubles etb effects you get Languish on a flying 5/5 for 6

he's not really the same thing though.
It's only -2/-2, which isn't big enough to sweep, and he comes in to late to be an early sweeper. Not saying he's bad, but he's not replacing languish. He's doing other things.
Also, he's at mythic, and WotClike having some effect like this at uncommon or rare for limited.

My guess is 1 of the following
A) another -2/-2 at 4cmc with some upside.
B) 5cmc or higher with a bigger effect
or
C) at rare, some different form of sweeper effect.

If it's A' or the B/C is bad, blacks out a board whip against midrange. Which is fine, it just shift things up.

I agree he's not the same, but I think he's perfectly good enough on his own to justify a slot or two in most black decks.

The energy production works for both sides creatures, and even on tokens. He can take over a game if left unchecked and that seems good enough to me to justify him

What edh list? White shit doesn't seem that strong in the meta.

Does this turn Noosegraf mob into a 10/10?

And if so I am making this deck immediately

Not sure. It reads somewhat suspiciously like they mean a DIFFERENT permanent.

Might have to wait for the rulings to come out.

>mfw all my glorious elves are rotating out

What is left besides sylvan advocate and beastcaller savant?

If they meant it to be a different permanent it would read "of another permanent you control," because if the creature or artifact has already entered the battlefield, as it has to do to trigger the effect, you already control it, so if it itself has an etb (like Reflector Mage) it will trigger it twice.

Ex -
>Panharmonicon is out.
>Ref Mage hits, it's ETB triggers
>Panharm reads that an ability has triggered due to something entering
>Panharm checks that the ability is from Ref Mage entering, and it reads that you control the permanent of Ref Mage
>Panharm triggers Ref Mage a second time.

You coudlve just said wizards is purposely gimping the game to save everyone time.

>gimped the game
No, because that doesn't actually explain shit and is just giving into the stupid "WotC hates removal" bullshit, and doesn't fucking tell you why they did any of this shit.

They want the early game to matter.
You don't just get to stop it using removal and counters, without at least giving up slots for early game removal/counters that lose power, you don't get to ignore it by having a sweeper on 4 that also sweeps bombs.
You don't get to skip it with turn 1 ramp.

Turn one and 2 your opponent might play a creature that you're going to have to spend deck building resources to deal with.

Anybody done any testing with Saheeli Rai? She seems interesting but doesn't look like she fits in any current builds.

The only good way of buying boosters is if you're going to draft with them. You get to win more boosters or store credit and practice.

>they didn't listen

>Standard
What a garbage of a format

...

>Doomblade is incondicional,
Heh, i would love to see a doomblade killing a siege rhino or a tasigur.
>Wizards don't want cards that are good any time of the game
That's an absurd line of thinking. People complaineed about rhino and CoCo all the time. Counterspell could have made those cards much less prevalent. In the same way, if you want beaters that don't die easily you cn give hexproff, like trhun or sigarda. Wizards is ruining standard just because they don't want to create "power creep"

I want this meme to end. Hehe, hope you had fun wasting $2, kiddo.

Sylvan Advocate is all you need user

its stronger than what you think. its worded so purphoros would double tigger, but it would also make a snapcaster double trigger

I think so. Chandra and bedlam reveler. Flow, bombardment, temper, axe, and that collective spell.

Do people still use cockatrice? Or is there a better service now.

>People complaineed about rhino and CoCo all the time. Counterspell could have made those cards much less prevalent.
but rhino and CoCo could be played until the turn after the counterspells they do print came online.

So you don't want a counterspell that can deal with those cards, you want one that can deal with those cards AND stop two drops.
Which punishes 2 drops.

>Wizards is ruining standard just because they don't want to create "power creep"
no, they are creating a standard which involves and early game that matters and last into a late game.

You consider it 'ruining' it, but you aren't the only people who play. You aren't even the majority, and WotC can afford to ignore you in favor of others.
And that pisses you off.

any of the decks your talking about will at least splash for other colors.

The spells heavy one will add blue for Thing, the early creature focused one will splash for green.

Dispel and Negate are still legal.

Rashmi, Sylvan Advocate, Architect of the Untamed, more to be announced.

>no, they are creating a standard which involves and early game that matters and last into a late game.
Except the game has three (four) basic components: Aggro, Midrange, Control (and Combo). Midrange is getting better because they're slowing down the first few turns, which means aggro has a harder time punishing slow decks, and control decks don't have the tools survive the early game.

It's not called Midrange: the Tappening for no reason, it's called that because midrange decks are taking over due to WotC removing efficient cards.

>It's not called Midrange: the Tappening for no reason
because people have the memory of damn goldfish and forget that RDW vs Esper dragons was less than a year ago.

They say that because they love hyperbole more than being honest.

They say that because they insist that a deck that uses creatures to hold block to survive mid-range attacks, board sweepers, and finishes the game with 7+ drops must be midrange, and not a damn control deck because it uses blockers rather than counterspells and spot removal.

They say that because they insist that aggro has to mean a deck that can't win after turn five, rather than thinking that maybe playing one drop, two drop, three drop, and attacking with them makes you aggro. And including stuff to help you keep the pressure up or pull a win after turn 5 doesn't fucking make you a midrange deck suddenly.

They say that because they include ramp and tempo in Midrange, because there is more than one way to divide up the types of decks, and insisting on it being the four of aggro, midrange, control, combo limits your way of thinking.

>Still no Red Gearhulk spoiled yet

How unplayable is it going to be?

>how utterly broken will it be

Fixed that for you.

>Next block is magic steampunk India
>Real India still doesn't have MtG at all

Will jund be good? Should I buy my Arlington kords and flayers asap?

>Red will get a one drop, they always do
And green always gets a 1-drop mana dork.

I don't even know what it would have to be to be absolutely broken enough to justify being held back this long.

Go away Stoddard, your design for the game is shit.
Midrange but 5% slower and Midrange but 5% faster are not Control and Aggro. The metagame is designed to be a closed 2-deck enviroment because it exacerbates the mythic lottery.

Every "pro" that needs a Gideon or a Liliana means 110 boosters sold for each copy of the card and throwing both blue and red into the shitter so that commons and uncommons can't possibly compete with the one good mythic in each set is all part of the plan.

Worry about plumbing first. Demanding luxury before infrastructure is how you end like Mexico.

>The metagame is designed to be a closed 2-deck enviroment because it exacerbates the mythic lottery.
the last two times this actually happened were Affinity (and aggro deck) and Caw-Blade (a control deck), they banned cards to stop this.

The last PT meta didn't have mover 25% in a single deck.

>and throwing both blue and red into the shitter
didn't actually happen, unless you're again pretending that Bant and Temur don't include blue.
>so that commons and uncommons can't possibly compete with
and now that sentence just went out of control because this no longer talking about the same thing.

I'll even give you that they've pushed power into the rare and mythic slot, that's very true. It just doesn't fit with the rest of what you are saying.

>splash blue for two UW creatures
>bant company is totally a blue deck guys

Aggro DOES mean you basically lose if your opponent makes it to turn five, because that's generally when they've stabilized. Aggro means running 8-12 one- and two-drops, and running less than 24 lands.

Midrange means you aim to win between turns 5-10, depending on the meta, but the more midrange decks there are, the more games will drag on (see Abzan Midrange mirrors and GW morph mirrors).

Guess what? Midrange decks want to curve out too, but they start at turn 2 or 3.

>And including stuff to help you keep the pressure up or pull a win after turn 5 doesn't fucking make you a midrange deck suddenly.
Yes, it does. Because your curve is higher than aggro and you intend to go beyond turn five (when facing good opposition).

If you get rid of good creature removal and burn, red decks can't power their way through to victory. If you get rid of good counterspells and control cards, control decks can't punish midrange decks. It pushes everything into a turns 5-10 (or so) format, which turns it into a midrange format.

Especially when most of the cards doing the work are creature cards.

>The last PT meta didn't have mover 25% in a single deck.

>magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptemn/day-two-standard-metagame-breakdown-2016-08-06

>We came in looking at all the new decks that could do well, but also at the potentially scary Bant Company numbers—nineteen percent as a distinct archetype, with 24% of total decks using Collected Company.

Twenty-four percent of the decks running Collected Company, nineteen percent of the competition being the Bant Company midrange deck itself.

Twenty percent is still a lot, and it's only going to get worse if Wizards doesn't allow other decks the tools they need to compete.

>deal 3 damage to all creatures target player controls. If they would die, exile them instead. Deal 2 damage to that player for each creature exiled by this effect.

Sweet

People get pissed when a deck has over 10% presence in Legacy or Modern, why is it ok for CoCo to have 24% of the meta to itself in Standard?

Other decks aren't options, they're ilussions of grandeur.

So I was right. Because I bothered to look things up instead of posting hyperbole.
And a deck being a quarter of the meta isn't great, but it's not terrible either. That's been about par for magic history.

And it's not "getting worse". The biggest boost to midrange was CoCo, and it's rotating out.

There was no golden age, and this is not the end times. Things have changed slightly from a few years ago. Just like it always has and will in the future.

Making top 8s after two days of tournament is not delusions of grandeur

Has Temur Emerge got any chance of staying in the meta?
This is the first time I've ever made a competitive deck and i'd really hate for it to lose it's potency due to Gather the Pack going out (I've been using Natural Connection instead of Nissa's Pilgrimage)

Noosegraf mob is a replacement ability, not a triggered one, I'm pretty sure

It enters with 5 +1+1 counters.
It doesn't gain them from an ETB trigger.
It would die before an ETB trigger if it was worded in any way that would trigger Panhamonicon's effect.
Even then, I still think that Panharmonicon's effect isn't what people think.

This is what I believe:

Any ETB effect that a creature has refers to the name of the creature entering the battlefield, not the creature itself, therefore there would be a trigger that relates to a "Creature" entering the battlefield but not "(Creatures name)" entering the battlefield.
If that creature/artifact entered the battlefield and caused another permanent to trigger specifically off that creature or artifact, i.e. Impact Tremors then the trigger would double.

I hope this makes sense to someone, though the proper ruling isn't out yet, so I could totally be wrong.
I just don't want to suffer Double Reflector mage.