Warcraft Lore and RPG Discussion

Are You People Literally Incapable Of Starting New Threads edition
Second Best King subedition

Discuss the lore of the Warcraft universe and its potential uses in TTRPGs.

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If Genn "I will build a great wall and make the Forsaken pay for it" Greymane is supposed to be Trump, then does that make Sylvanas Hillary?

every woman in Warcraft is Hillary
>Tyrande's shrill, obnoxious voice
>Jaina "so what if I abandoned the Broken Shore? What difference, at this point, does it make?" Proudmoore
and Sylvanas of course

Genn "my people are homeless hobos near extinction but let's start a pointless war anyway" Graymane better not be what Trump turn out to be.

He won't because Genn is actually a leader.

Genn Greymane isn't Trump because Genn is occasionally capable of acknowledging he might be wrong.

>Trump gets elected
>the Democrats unleash the plague
F

I could see them doing that.

Was someone talking about a three-faction system some thread ago?

I know one side was made up of all the titan forged, anyone remember the others?

And as a brief aside, would you give up dranei for mogu?

it was probably something like
>Titanforged: dwarves, gnomes, humans
>natives: tauren, trolls, elves
>aliens: orcs, draenei
but that doesn't really make sense

mogu and draenei are both really cool, if Blizzard wanted to give the mogu a unique model they could have easily been a great new race

>there has been a president ever that said they made a mistake
How fucking stupid are you?

No, he's point out that Trump doesn't admit his mistakes and doubles down on his own stupidity to the point that it's just numbing.
But this /pol/ shit doesn't belong here.

>american politics

So, I've kind of asked this here before, but I'm brainstorming again so I'm going to ask it again.

If I was trying to run a campaign that captures the feeling and magic that made WoW good, where on the Warcraft timeline should it be set?

I was originally going to set it in vanilla, but re-reading a bunch of the lore I realized the plot of vanilla WoW was not terribly interesting. The weird Lo'gash shit felt campy as hell and the rest of the world seems focused around generic hordes of monolithic bad guys being evil for the sake of evil.

What do y'all think?

>But this /pol/ shit doesn't belong here.
yeah, at least thinly veil the /pol/ shit as thread related

btw the Legion is invading Azeroth because of an offensive Youtube video and suggesting otherwise or trying to stop them is hateful and bigoted, the Horde is the real enemy

I would say Vanilla because most of what's there is generic, but it's simple and can serve as a foundation on which to build a proper, more fleshed out campaign story.
Burning Crusade is fine, too, but that felt like it was building up to a climax battling evil Illidan, whom we now know dindu nuffin wrong.

The later you go in the series, the more convoluted it gets and the more bullshit you have to keep track of.

>The weird Lo'gash shit felt campy as hell
that was from Wrath
>and the rest of the world seems focused around generic hordes of monolithic bad guys being evil for the sake of evil.
this describes Cata better than vanilla

the reason vanilla is good for adventuring is because there wasn't an overarching plot. In BC we knew we were going to fight Illidan and the Legion, in Wrath we knew we were fighting the LK, in Cata we knew we were fighting Deathwing. In vanilla you just had a bunch of fucked up countries trying to scrape together enough to survive

Everything seems to be taking place within hours of each other, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, other than when you wan it relative to the cataclysm.

>MFW i finally found out where the shit my hidden artifact skin is
>it actually isn't doing retarded crap in the sewers of dalaran.
nice.

>that was from Wrath
It was, but it has its roots in vanilla conflicts.

>this describes Cata better than vanilla
It's also very true for Cata but fuck Cata.

Vanilla seems too, for a lack of a better word, vanilla. The challenge of survival lacks any real interesting conflicts. It's just about gathering resources.

>implying both legion and horde aren't the enemy
The legion made the horde invade azeroth. That doesn't make the horde any less of goat fucking child rapists.

>there has been a president ever that said they made a mistake

There've been plenty, actually.

Who has admitted their mistakes, which possibly cost people their livelihoods?

I have yet to hear the Clinton apologize for the legislation that incarcerated the most blacks in the country alone. Pretty sure they doubled down on that.

Have yet to hear Bush apologize for the war in iraq which wasted american resources and lives for the next 12 years.

I have yet to hear Obama apologize for the rhetoric that's enabling more police violence and rioting that is predicated upon a misreported lie. I also have yet to hear him double back on when he propagated advocacy research about the wage gap which gave legitimacy to bullshit anyone with two brain cells knows is a crock.

>but user, there was some shit in the 1920's that no one living gives a shit about
>but user, raegan apologized for mispronouncing a leppo

My point is that the neither party will acknowledge anything that cannot be spun, minimized, or deflected as a mistake. For purely political posturing. You would never hear anyone admit that their campaign platform was a mistake. Ever. Raegan would never say his economic package was a mistake. Clinton would never say the war on drugs was a mistake. Bush would never say the war on iraq was a mistake.

Will you admit to your mistake of spamming up a perfectly good warcraft thread with /pol/ shit and kindly fuck off?

/pol/ for political discussions
/v/ for video game discussions
Veeky Forums for video game discussions
Veeky Forums for the novels

Are you going to actually talk about Warcraft Veeky Forums any time soon?

Will you admit your mistake of making a real world allegory unsolicited and then getting flustered when it balloons into something you didn't want to?

>haha, like the clinton assassinations
>actually blah blah blah
>bruh, I was just making a shortsighted shitty political joke in a context where it's not fair to challenge me on it

Don't respond. Just report and ignore. He's just going to keep spouting memes and misleading talking points just to get a response.
The only thing to do is report and ignore.

>there are only 2 posters in the thread
>there's no way an outsider thinks this argument is dumb and just wants me to fuck off with /pol/ shit and talk about warcraft

...

I just thought that maybe if I paid enough attention to him, he'd get enough screentime for us to have a proper troll racial leader

>implying there will ever be a proper troll leader
you goys had Vol'gin, then he ate it, now enjoy going back to irrelevancy.

I'd feed certain trolls, the ones with tits and vaginas to be exact

>Old gods: Voidtards
>Burning legion: Sargeras and his legion of retards
>GLORIOUS SCOURGE: The living dead, soldiers of the cold dark.

>One of the original inhabitants of Azeroth. Not made by the Old Gods, or the Titans. Didn't fly over on a space ship or warp in from another world. They ran this shit.
>Leagues of interesting lore, characters, and history, including some of the most bizarre magic and religions that are all their own and can't be linked with other existing magic types or deities.
>Trolls have always been my favorite race. From the tribal voodoo culture, to the endearing as fuck accents, to the just plain neat design of blue elephant elves, to riding fucking velociraptors as their beast of choice.

>A significant portion of every expansion is specifically dedicated to driving them to extinction
>So ignored in the grand scheme of the WoW they might as well be blue orcs with a funny accent. To the point where they don't even get their own starting area until Cata.
>Vol'jin, true friend of Thrall, significantly powerful lore character, and otherwise invisible background character FINALLY has the spotlight cast on him
>Only to be fucking shanked and die like a bitch expressly so Sylvannis can look almost maybe kind of redeemable, so it might not be as flaccid a twist when she fucks up again. Basically jobs so the banshee queen can have a decent promo for summer slam.
>Meanwhile someone's edgy OC Varian gets a full send off of his brave and noble sacrifice, punks a felreaver, knocks some demon heads around, and tells Gul'dan to suck on his big gay ponytail.

What the fuck does Blizzard have against us, man?

Did their original designer fuck Metzen's wife or something? Why do they just hate trolls so goddamn much?

I love the trolls, but they're basically there just to be raid fodder once an expansion.
Like the Legion, but less threatening.

He tried to change that user, and 5 murderhobos ruined it.

actually only 1 murderhobo ruined it

also Arthas being a retarded faggot

Yeah my mistake thought he was offed in Grundark for some reason.

H-Here's hoping someone has the PDFs...!

Reminder that not only are jungle trolls cunning and badass, but they are also fuzzy and thus the perfect texture for cuddling.

Which artifact, user?

This is a /v/ thread and belongs on /v/

Sure, but their raids are always great. And 8 or 9 years later and they still have the best patch trailer.

That's because trolls are bad ass.
It'd be nice if we could stop killing them all.

This is a necromancy thread it belongs on /schol/.
Get the helhiem out of /dal/ this is a mage board.

>mage board

Are you sure we're not on /fel/ right now? Seeing a lot of Warlocks here.

Both of you need to get off the Titan basket weaving board.

Are you saying we should discuss the RvB nature of the horde and the alliance on /pol/?

maybe you're just paranoid, mortal... I mean friend.
definitely no warlocks here

>>GLORIOUS SCOURGE: The living dead, soldiers of the cold dark.
suffering status:
Rare [ ]
Medium [ ]
Well [X]

Is it just me or is there gonna be leadership issues in the Horde?
There's no real significant Troll character after Vol'jin other than Rokhan, who is just a skilled soldier, not a leader.
Saurfang is fine and all leading the orcs, but he's old and heirless. Nazgrel has been stuck in his faraway post in Thrallmar since TBC and is long irrelevant, Drek'Thar is the same, but old too. Nazgrim is undead now, but it would put the Ebon Blade in a terribly screwed up place, consiering that Sylvannas likely has something against them after they raided Undercity, and even if he's back, orcs ain't gonna take that well that Nazgrim's tomb got desecrated. To boot, Nazgrim is half-insane and raided Light's Hope (risking alienating the Horde's paladins).
We need new storylines for a potential orc and a troll leader and we need them soon.

Broxigar will fly out of a portal at the end of the final raid of Legion to one shot the last boss and take over the Horde

I've mained a Belf Prot Pally since BC came out. Payed close attention to the lore the whole time (which is why I dislike Cata so much). I switched to maining an Unholy DK for Legion because I couldn't deal with how little fun Prot or Ret are right now. When I had to fight Lady Liadrin I was genuinely upset.

>mfw still have my very first male human warrior from vanilla

>When I had to fight Lady Liadrin I was genuinely upset.
playing through Legion as a Horde death knight drove me insane
I started off as a true believer in Thrall's plan to forge peace between the factions. But the Broken Shore, the class campaign and Stormheim slowly made me realize that the living will never cooperate, they'll never hold together in the face of oblivion, they'll never resist the subversion of the Legion. Only the dead can do that. Only an army of the dead can stand against an army of demons.
When I attacked Light's Hope, I'd lost all faith in the living. I was ready to destroy them. with every stroke of my blade I relished the terror and confusion of the crusaders as they were betrayed and slaughtered by their former allies. Even though the attack failed, it was merely the first shot in a war. The war that will end the weakness of Azeroth's people in the face of armageddon.
The one true king comes again, and I will lead his soldiers in the war that cleanses Azeroth once and for all

I wish I did, but I switched account 3 times.
I RP my worgen warrior as the same guy that got back to Gilneas after defeating Arthas just in time for th Cataclysm.

That's retarded. It would be like a reverse Varian for the Horde


It's gonna happen.

Who will be the new racial leader for trolls?

I think there's potential for whatever remnants of zandalari to finally admit that instead of enslaving loa and attacking anyone that comes near them hasn't worked out, and that their best chance at survival is with the horde.

Bit late but JFK. He apologized after the Bay of Pigs incident and took responsibility for it. Turned out people liked him for be honest.

Now if you weren't already out, go away.

>The living can't be peaceful together
>So let's openly attack the headquarters of literally the most anti-Horde/Alliance conflict faction
>That has been this way since the end of the Third Fucking War
>That had a leader who openly shamed Garrosh and Varian for their pissing contest in Northerend
>And that has literally accepted the Forsaken despite being comprised of Paladins who usuaoly hate the undead, because they believe the Forsaken aren't all evil

Get the fuck out before I bring the hammer down. Gas the Ebon Blade, class war now.

no paladin has ever accomplished anything without plot armor saving them or a death knight backing them up
eat shit and die lightcuck

Eh, to be fair, you'd never have willingly given up Tirion's body peacefully.

I didn't want to do it. I cried a bit while I did it. If you must kill us, please. Kill Bolvar too.

And where were the so called 'Knights of the Ebon Blade' on the Broken Shore? Paladins got there early, and you idiots were still cowering in your flying shit factory to actually come out and face the demons. But oh yes, now that the Lich King, who was in fact a PALADIN, has rallied you, you can now spend your time avoiding the Broken Isles as you try to raise your new liutenants, fail on the fourth and final, and slink back to your disgusting flying saucer to coward and lick your wounds, while other classes are out in the world getting shit done.

While you were crying about the Light kicking you to the curb, I was slaying Balnazzar alongside one of its very liutenants.

Get fucked Death Faggot.

...yeah but I hear Demon Hunters fucked your waifu

>And where were the so called 'Knights of the Ebon Blade' on the Broken Shore? Paladins got there early
the better question is why Tirion rushed into the battle before anyone else could even organize an attack. Seems he isn't a very good strategist without Darion guiding him

Tirion made the call to attack because otherwise the demons would've started marching unopposed to the Pillars of Creation. He bought the Alliance and Horde time to rally and follow, even if it cost him his life.

Wait what was this? Who'd they fuck?

Couldn't have been Liadrin.

No user, YOUR waifu

Tirion had no idea about the Pillars, Khadgar and Magni would only bring it up later.

Again, couldn't have been Liadrin.

Would tauren be the most populous race in the Horde? I mean, let's look at them all:

>Orcs
Aliens who came through a portal. Two clans (Frostwolves and Warsong), both of whom probably took a lot of damage during the First and Second war, with the Warsong explicitly described as only made up of soldiers who evaded capture, plus the contents of like, four or five internment camps. Probably took heavy losses during crossing to Kalimdor and the Third War. Topped up by the Mag'har (one small group of plague survivors) and a section of the Dragonmaw (who had been having their shit kicked in by the alliance and random adventurers for years). Had a large portion split away and get killed during the Horde civil war. Have been on the front lines of battle getting themselves killed for ages. Any children they had since crossing to Kalimdor would be just now reaching maturity.

>Trolls
Horde trolls are mostly Darkspear trolls, and made up of whatever survivors of an island catastrophe that the orcs could pull onto their ships while crossing to Kalimdor, which is probably not a lot. The Horde also has, like, one small tribe of forest trolls. Again, children had since coming to Kalimdor would only be reaching maturity now.

>Blood elves
Had their homeland recked, lost a ton of people to arcane withdrawal, and had a large portion of their race bugger off to outland with KT through a portal (having to fight shit there, as well as come back to fight at the frozen throne for a while with Illidan). Steady losses since then, like everyone else, and it's implied that elves breed and mature slowly.

>Goblins
A few survivors of an island that got blown up. Constantly getting themselves killed by their own inventions. On the plus side, goblins are said to produce a lot of kids quickly, but it's implied that this is just what keeps equilibrium with them setting themselves on fire all the time. There are plenty of neutral goblins, though, and some may have joined the Horde.

[cont]

>Pandaren
Horde population is just a couple of tourists from an island.

>Forsaken
Possible contender for most populous. If we assume something like 9/10 of the people of Lordaeron were wiped out by the plague and the scourge and raised as undead, and then say, half of those were able to pull away from the Scourge and become Forsaken (seems a fair enough estimate, considering there are tons of Scourge undead still running around the northern eastern kingdoms), then the Forsaken would have started with very large numbers. However, as is a large part of Sylvanas' plot, Forsaken can't reproduce. Sylvanas got some Val'kyr to raise some more during Cata, but a Val'kyr can only raise so many at a time, were limited in their numbers, and had a bunch of themselves killed to bring Sylvanas back to life. Since Sylvanas is now running around still worrying about her people's future and trying to get more Val'kyr, we can assume she doesn't have enough to counter the decline in the Forsaken population. Which is probably pretty steep, since the Forsaken are on the front line with the Alliance and are constantly fighting the humans, dwarves, worgen, and had to deal with the Scourge remnants, as well as contributing to the Horde, and slowly decaying/going mad on their own.

Whereas:
>Tauren
Native to Kalimdor. When originally met during WCIII, were described as nomads fleeing the centaur, but that was just the Bloodhoof tauren: in the time between then and WoW, what seems every other tauren tribe in Kalimdor also joined the Horde, and a large portion of all horde settlements in Kalimdor seem like they were originally tauren settlements. Most of one tribe (Grimtotems) left the Horde during Cata, but this was probably more than compensated for by the taunka, who joined during WotLK. Tauren mature relatively quickly and would have been having kids the whole time, so their population would have been getting refreshed steadily.

What do you think?

So was Prince Malchezzar looking for information on the Pillars in Karazhan back in TBC?

the Legion doesn't even know where any of the Pillars are other than the Eye of Aman'thul

Yeah, but he did know about the demons. He did what he needed for everyone else to get it in gear, and then Sylvanas fucked it up by not simply shouting 'We're being overrun!'

He was probably sitting on the sheer amount of energy there, Karazhan is on top of a major ley-line intersection. Also he was waiting for his invite to the party

Well I just recall that people have been trying to deduce his purpose ever since the raid first came out and knowing that a book on the Pillars was there the whole time makes it seem like a possibility.

>Yeah, but he did know about the demons.

Not really, he blundered into their trap.
He really should have cooled his jets.

>Let's rescue Koltira!
>Be Horde DK
>Thassarian: "Meet me at the Undercity"
>Ok bro
>Wait why at the sewers entrance
>Uh ok you're with the alliance yourself so I guess you need to sneak in
>Wait don't attack the g- fuck
>Sigh
>Ok here's Koltira
>Wait all he had to do was get out of the cage and use a death gate?
>We didn't even need to get a key?
>Thassarian I could have just walked in here and done that
>For fuck's sake Thassarian

>trap

user, Gul'dan used Tirion as bait for a 'trap' to get the Alliance and the Horde, and even then it wasn't really a ttap since they were both going there anyway.

The ToS is literally the biggest army of demons ever seen in one place. It dwarfs even Archimonde's invasion during the Third War.

Naturally nobody knew that, but I'd hardly call it a trap.

I wish we got that greymane as a posterboy for the Outlaw, but that would require letting rogues equip real pistols.

>But oh yes, now that the Lich King, who was in fact a PALADIN
>Stop being a memedin
>????
>Be useful
Who'd have thought.
He's also 1/3 shaman and the one true king.

So, was I the only one who thought of Medivh first, when Turalyon's message arrived to Khadgar and he talked about "the Prophet"? And then Khadgar went "we have to get this to Velen" and then the thought was "oh yeah Velen I guess he's called a prophet too"?

They had the Tears of Elune, and knew where the Aegis was.

>Medivh
Not the only one.
FWIW I kinda hope they bring him in somehow.
I'd settle for party monster hearthstone Medivh in new Kara

I just realized something. The Old God(s) are throwing in their lot this expac too, pretty hard.

>Tears of Elune almost fall into the Nightmare is Xavius wasn't an arrogant cockmongler
>Naga literally get the Tidestone for a bit
>Drogbar are subtly hinted at being corrupted by Shadows, heavy association with deep places in the Earth, had history with Deathwing, had the Hammer for quite awhile.

Azshara's gonna be pissed when push comes to shove.

>I'M GONNA OOK YOU IN THE DOOKER

What did he mean by this?

He's gonne ook you. In the dooker.

God I want to play as a Hozen and I'll never get to. And I mean in a tabletop game.

>party monster hearthstone Medivh in new Kara
After you beat the last boss he shows up hung over with a half naked Medeva
Asks you whats going on he feels like he's been in that party for twenty years
Ends the invasion in one night
Goes to Suramar to take his partying to the next level with the elf high ballers.

He's gonna punch you in the butt.

>Ends the invasion in one night
I can believe it, he's not a shit Wizard like Khadgar

Tauren are big, but slow breeders.
They were so few in number that when the Orcs arrived, they needed Thrall's help to tone down the quillboar enough to make their journey.
Any of the smaller races could outbreed them easily.

Khadgar is exploring the untapped powers of meme magic. He doesn't have time for boring regular magic

Too bad meme magic means he's incapable of turning off a fucking portal.

>a shit Wizard like Khadgar

>nazgrim's tomb
he was buried in an unmarked grave near the road outside orgrimmar. Pretty much a ditch.
I'm gonna say that the horde leadership wasn't terribly fond of him not betraying Garrosh.

>Medivh brings about world peace with a harem of apprentices from all 13 races

>EXTREMELY HIGH ELF