Horus Heresy General /hhg/

I thought most capes were fur on top and ragged 300 cape on the bottom. Dorn wears the red cape alone.

oh... feck

Wait Laurie was in the last thread?

No, there was the link to his confirmation of "of course that is not Bjorn"
z13.invisionfree.com/The_First_Expedition/index.php?showtopic=23&st=2445&#entry40000642

I doubt any of them frequents this site.

ADB most likely does; since a year ago we were shitting on him and discussing how daddy issues would possibly ruin Master of Mankind and the same day he posted this

Daddy issues has already ruined most of the Black Library HH books.

Fun team game yesterday, my WE with some Mechanicum vs DG and some more Mechanicum. Highlights:
>My Kharybdis, Dreadclaw, and DreadPod landed with no scatter
>Red Butchers Devoured saved 4 wounds from Durak Rask's thunder hammer and then wiped an entire heavy support squad with just his power fist attacks
>Kharn and Friends multi-charged 3 rhinos and took a combined 7 HP (sad face), one of those rhinos then killed itself with its own chem munitions
>My javelin survived a dreadnought charge
>Two dreadnoughts exploded each other at the same time
>Kharn and Friends broke from some Grave Wardens and proceeded to fail their regroup check, then got fucked by Castellax
>3 Thanatars are a good thing to have on your team
>Scoria fucked all over my back line,killing at least one of said Thanatars
In the end, I lost every single model but took half the DG and some robots with me, a few of my partner's Thallax and a Thanatar remained, and Scoria does what Scoria wants. All in all, good slaughter. I've come to the conclusion that based on how I like to play my World Eaters, I'll probably never beat our Mechanicum players, but I can sure make it tough for them.

Those highlights make it sound like you were winning, but then
>In the end, I lost every single model

>BJORN DOESN'T HAVE A POWER CLAW AT PROSPERO.

Why is this man so butthurt?

Probably because he is having a sperg panic anxiety based on deep inside his mind he knows that Games Workshop doesn't value canon.

Against the Death Guard list on its own, I would've had it, but all those I4 power fists and S6 AP3 bolt cannons from the Castellax really fucked me over.

>In the end, I lost every single model
>Scoria does what Scoria wants.
You learned it the hard way. Don't doubt our boy Scoria because he'll show you why he's the king of this pumpkin patch.

Horus heresy collected visions is reference info not canon

Best Bjron.

Maybe they shouldn't have put all that fluff in there then, detailing the Heresy.

Is or was the Horus Heresy card game canon?

Why aren't Gorgons Assault Vehicles?

How good are Sons of Horus? Do you need their special units to win?

Might make them good. Can't have that.

RIP.

I really want to have solar auxilia axemen/militia huscarls jumping off a vehicle and chopping up Marines. Would a stormlord work?

He gets the power claw not too long after Prospero.

Those are some silly "references".
Does the SA or Imperial Militia have access to any Assault Vehicle?

Why would they give a nobody bolter marine a lightning claw?

He wasn't given it, he steals it from the armoury while the iron priest isn't looking.

From Scars, if you're wondering.

Why would they let a nobody bolter marine keep his ill gotten gains?

He steals it in wolf's claw.

He steals it in Prospero Burns

He steals it in Know No Fear

>Gee Bjorn! How come your primarch lets you have three lightning claws?

I'm redirecting you to standard GW policy on fluff; which is
>anything that hasn't been retconned is canon

He steals it in Master of Mankind

>I really want to have solar auxilia axemen/militia huscarls jumping off a vehicle and chopping up Marines. Would a stormlord work?
Well, it's open-topped. Lots of people use them. But convincing pre-posthumans to charge posthumans sounds like wishful thinking.

The Gorgon doesn't exist because a) it's on the Macharius chassis which isn't in the game, and b) they don't want you to be able to make an army that feels like a possible 40k Imperial Guard list. That's why there are no Chimera chassis vehicles either.

Bjorn confirmed Blood Raven's founder

the gorgon is a DT for cult militias

So Visions IS (or was) canon? I'm getting mixed messages here.

Also, what if something hasn't been retconned, but doesn't fit or make sense in the context of all the other fluff?

So that's why Russ left him behind.

Dagnabit. Foiled again.

>The Gorgon doesn't exist

Gorgon is the only Dedicated Transport Imperial Militia gets. Also, it's not canonically on a Macharius hull, since the thing has existed way before the Macharius was even a thing. The epic model of it looks more like a Baneblade hull.

>they don't want you to be able to make an army that feels like a possible 40k Imperial Guard list.

If Army can't get Gorgons, Chimeras nor Rhinos, what are they suppose to use?

The stuff in visions that goes against the Horus Heresy BL series isn't canon. The stuff that doesn't is.
>Also, what if something hasn't been retconned, but doesn't fit or make sense in the context of all the other fluff
Like?

>Like?

Shamans, why the Emperor was created, Emperor being born in Central Anatolia in 8000 B.C. to regular people, etc.

>That picture
Hey baby, how far up do those legs go?

All of that is still canon; just hasn't been told (though I expect we'll get a few nods in MoM).

And Emps being born in Central Anatolia in olden times is still correct; seeing as it's mentioned that he gave Horus a ring from his original tribe

>>anything that hasn't been retconned is canon

So Half Eldar Ultramarine astropaths are canon?

Wasn't the case that the Emperor was still born as the Shamans' reincarnation, born Perpetual and a powerful psyker, and went to Molech go gain god-like powers?
Isn't Nastase's position currently occuped by Tigurius? That's from the time the XIIIth was traitor, legions were chapters and Dorn was a regular Imperial Commander.

We don't know who exactly created the Original Perpetuals which the Emperor are a part of. We know they "crafted" to be resistant to Chaos, though.

However, the Emperor wasn't born with godlike powers. He had to ask the Chaos Gods to give it to him in exchange for a promise.

So why did the Shamans put all their souls into one body to escape Chaos, when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?

Why the Emperor, and amalgamation of powerful psykers, need power from the dark gods? Why is he powering himself with the tainted Chaos energy when he's suppose to run off of the untainted pure warp energy? How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?

>seeing as it's mentioned that he gave Horus a ring from his original tribe

But wasn't that Persian? Persia is in an entirely different location and wasn't even a thing until thousands of years later.

Seeing as it's been made clear that anyone not human enough can't take the geneseed process; as well as Tigrius not having eldar genes anymore

The character was never a Space Marine, only an astropath working for Ultramarines.

That guy wasn't a space marine. He was just wearing power armor. Back then everyone were power armor identical to marines.

Anyways, Fabius implanted geneseed into a Tau once.

>So why did the Shamans put all their souls into one body to escape Chaos, when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?
Well they most likely couldn't have become perpetuals
>Why the Emperor, and amalgamation of powerful psykers, need power from the dark gods?

Because obviously those powerful psykers aren't enough

>Why is he powering himself with the tainted Chaos energy when he's suppose to run off of the untainted pure warp energy?
Retconned; all warp energy is now Chaos energy

>How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?
What better way to win than to get the most powerful psyker of all time on your side?

>But wasn't that Persian? Persia is in an entirely different location and wasn't even a thing until thousands of years later
Nope; it's described as being from the Neolithic

>when there's a whole bunch of immortals who can regenerate just fine?

The Perpetuals were crafted alongside the Emperor, apparently. Maybe the shamans didn't want to bet on a single guy so they made more.

>How come the dark gods, who have been watching the Emperor for some time, give him their power?

Just as planned.

I've spent far too much time and energy for this, hopefully it's not too cringy..

Night Lords Legion 127th Reinforced Terror Company "The Court of Malediction"
-------------------------------------------------
-reinforced with an assault marine detachment drawn from several
veteran assault companies of the VIII Legion and a heavy armoured squadron from the
Legion's mechanized reserve in preparation for post-Isstvan V operations
-often deployed as a dedicated harrowing force during the Night Lords offensive in the Thramas
sector

Notable campaigns:
+The Desolation of Kormagor Rift 947.M30+
-127th Company of the VIII Legion censured by the Imperial operational command
after purging the compliant colonies of the Ychea system for suspected xenos taint and collaboration
+Pacification of the Cayex Cluster 962.M30+
-the inner worlds of the cluster surrender into compliance after the 127th unleashes
Exterminatus-class weapons and annihilates the outlying systems of the region
+Thalarisian Genocide 004.M31+
-The 127th suffers heavy losses after the insurgent hive-moons of Thalaris III
engage self-destruction protocols and release horrors of the Old Night in retaliation
to the Night Lords assault during the final battle of the campaign

Additional notes:
-Initially reported to be missing after the conclusion of the
Thramas Crusade, later reports indicate that the company had
become increasingly unstable after the disappearance of the
Primarch, development which culminated in the sacking of
several traitor- and loyalist-aligned worlds on the Ultima Segmentum
-Affiliated with a number of 'Blackshield' Astartes warbands
-Current allegiances unknown

>if only I had more light and a better camera

Back when the Shamans comitted colective suicide, the warp wasn't so turbulent. In fact they did it because up until that time they had been able to reincarnate without problem, but they knew times were changeing.
So they became a single perpetual entity.

What I thought was an original idea ended up being not original.

Fluff as good as the models.

>Well they most likely couldn't have become perpetuals

So the Emperor is not a perpetual?

>Because obviously those powerful psykers aren't enough

For what?

>all warp energy is now Chaos energy

Retconned where?

>What better way to win than to get the most powerful psyker of all time on your side?

So why didn't they approach him before? Or try to possess him? They've been able to do it with other psykers, why must the Emperor have a special portal communion? And if he's resisting their attempts, shouldn't that tell them something about his motivations?

>Nope; it's described as being from the Neolithic

All references I can find say it's Persian, made a year before the Emperor's birth.

Well done, fellow son of the Lion!
I hope you showed them what their meatgrinder-ness meant against the survivors of Rangda.

I'm working on the last touches before I prime my Praetor. Other than that I'm waiting for the resin components of my Damocles to soak before I start putting that together. If I can dig up whatever notepad file I wrote the praetors fluff in I'll try and share it with the thread.

I've also got a box of Imperial Knight: Renegade sitting unopened. I'm trying to work myself into the mood to put together two knights for an allied detachment. I'll probably magnetize them as fully as I can, but if anyone could advise me how best to outfit them that would be appreciated.

>that beep boop

>So the Emperor is not a perpetual?
Never said that; I'm talking about the shamans themselves

>For what?
For the shit that he planned to do

>Retconned where?

In some codex or the other

>
So why didn't they approach him before? Or try to possess him? They've been able to do it with other psykers, why must the Emperor have a special portal communion? And if he's resisting their attempts, shouldn't that tell them something about his motivations?

You don't know if they approached or try to possess him before. And as I said; Emps isn't other psykers. And Chaos might have been fooled (or intentionally let themselves be fooled) to his actions

>Maybe the shamans didn't want to bet on a single guy so they made more.

Then they shouldn't have put all their souls into the Emperor and instead spread them out among the perpetuals and live forever without needing to reincarnate through the warp.

Looks like a Shady Cortex merchant or something

>Never said that

So if he is a perpetual, then they can inhabit perpetuals, so why didn't they inhabit several perpetuals and spread themselves around rather than put all their soul eggs into one perpetual basket to get snuffed out in a freak accident or something?

>For the shit that he planned to do

What was he planning that needed such a lust for vengeance?

>You don't know if they approached or try to possess him before.

If he was, why did he turn them down? If he wasn't why not, if they wanted this powerful psyker on their side?

>Emps isn't other psykers

So what's special about him, if he's not really strong, powered by the pure untainted warp, etc.?

>Hello, do you want to talk about Our Lord the Omnissiah?

>Retconned where?

Picture related.

Also....

>Chaos Undivided is a very confusing concept, especially due to the way one particular edition made it a little "gamey" and changed the lore quite a lot. That was in a very expansionist phase of the hobby, so a lot of players came into 40K seeing it as the truth, but there's a pretty simple way to view the Warp in moments like this.

>The Four Powers are Chaos.

>There's no Chaos Undivided, and references to Undivided as a "thing" are rarer and rarer. No more Mark of Chaos Undivided, for example. No more references to daemons of Chaos Undivided (not that there were many, anyway). The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on.

>The worship of Chaos Undivided is the worship of Chaos as a concept, made manifest in the presence of the pantheon. It's the worship of all four gods equally, or the ignorance of all of them, not realising that they're The Truth of the warp. They can say they pray to the concept of Chaos itself, and that's all fine and good. But Chaos, in real terms, is the Four Gods and everything that comes from them. In this example, a follower of Chaos Undivided will still be getting mutations and blessings from the Four Gods (or their lesser manifestations) he'll just view it in different terms. The pantheon blesses him, or the warp itself reaches out to exalt him. It's not as simple as just seeing your left arm become a tentacle and going "Hmm, this makes me cost 3 more points and is clearly from Slaanesh."

>As editions roll out, and as Black Library gets edited tighter with delicious, beloved fact-checkers, a lot of year 2000-style / 3rd-Ed holdovers seem to be mentioned less and less, or simply never again.

-ADB (source bolterandchainsword.com/topic/260128-chaos-undivided-confusion/#entry3165636)

>So if he is a perpetual, then they can inhabit perpetuals, so why didn't they inhabit several perpetuals and spread themselves around rather than put all their soul eggs into one perpetual basket to get snuffed out in a freak accident or something?
Probably high on shrooms.

>What was he planning that needed such a lust for vengeance?
Imbuing his sons with psychic powers; building the webway project

>If he was, why did he turn them down? If he wasn't why not, if they wanted this powerful psyker on their side?

If he was; he just wasn't ready yet. If he wasn't; who can tell the four's madness?

>So what's special about him, if he's not really strong, powered by the pure untainted warp, etc.?
The guy's been doing for 10007 years what the most powerful human could only do for a hour before exploding into warpdust. Obviously he's someone special

...

What does Chaos Undivided have to do with untainted warp?

Also, if all of warp is Chaos and all of Chaos is the 4 gods, why is there a limit to the power each god has? Why do they have their own realms that have stuff outside of them? Why are there warp creatures not related to any of the 4? When did the 4 take over the warp and make all of the warp their own (while leaving areas and creatures they don't control)?

wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Wolf's_Claw_(Audio_Drama)

...

I should have known you bitter decimators would only care about the beeb boop

Don't skip read. Read all of it especially this part.

"The Warp essentially is the Four Powers, and the millions and billions of lesser entities aligned with them, composed of them, born from them, and so on".

All creatures in the Warp are related to the Chaos Gods in one way or another. The Chaos Gods did not take over the Warp, they have always existed in it. According to the HH serirs, the Chaos Gods were hiding in the depths of the Warp waiting for their time to surface.

Don't believe his lies.

>Imbuing his sons with psychic powers

How did psykers ever get created, if you needed the power of the dark gods to make psykers?

>building the webway project

Wonder how the Necrons ever made those dolmen gates without the power of the dark gods.

>The guy's been doing for 10007 years what the most powerful human could only do for a hour before exploding into warpdust

All of which happened after he got power from the dark gods. But what about before that?

Continued....

>The First Captain, initially angry at the Magos’ imperious summons, had become serious and engaged as Ivasnophon revealed the nature of the technology that he sought upon Amethal. It was an ancient prize, something made by those who ruled the galaxy long before the first Terran life forms emerged from the primordial ooze. Other examples of its sort had been found across the galaxy from time to time, hints at an incredibly potent weapon against the powers of Chaos. Ivasnophon specialised in the location, excavation and imitation of such archeotechnological treasures. For centuries he had been following a tenuous trail of clues towards this, his greatest find. Amethal was not a planet, he explained, but rather a skin of rock and biosphere stretched as camouflage over an ancient cage. Vast beyond belief, wreathed in arcane wards and dark technologies, it was a prison-eternal for daemonic entities. It was the Magos Dominus’ belief that the Amethal Cage contained hellish beings beyond count, trapped for millennia behind warded bars. Why the ancients had sought to isolate these creatures from the Warp was a mystery lost to the mists of time, but the Magos was certain they had succeeded. Captain Karlaen was horrified at this revelation, for if that were true, then the empyric inmates of this world represented a dreadful danger to the defences around the Cadian Gate. At the same time, he was not slow to grasp Ivasnophon’s purpose on this world. Building upon his countless decades of study and experimentation, the Magos Dominus was at last nearly able to replicate the technologies of the Daemon cage. He was weeks, months at most, from creating – and then mass producing-devices that could cage Daemons on a vast scale. Though not a permanent solution to the daemonic threat, such devices might end daemonic incursions as soon as they began, and thus turn the tide in the war for the Cadian Gate.

So why does the 6e codex say the same old thing about the gods being born from the minds of mortals? Why do Furies, Enslavers, etc. creatures exist? Why does the Necron codex mention how the War in Heaven turned the once peaceful warp creatures into terrible monsters? Why didn't the Old Ones encounter the dark gods or why weren't their psychic races set upon by daemons when the warp was calm? Why is there a wasteland outside of the realms of the dark gods instead of the dark gods controlling it all?

oh no I was proven wrong

INITIATE DAMAGE CONTROL

Doesn't the Emperor predate all of the Chaos gods? Except maybe Nurgle. Khorne didn't become a full good until the Middle Ages IIRC.

This is just in case some jerk brings up the bullshit about the Warp being calm and having no Chaos before the War in Heaven.

As you can see from the green text taken from Angel's Blade, several anti-daemons weapons and prisons were crafted by a race of ancients long before any life on Terra formed. That makes it roughly 6 billion years ago. Waaaaay before the War in Heaven which happened 60 million years ago in the 40K universe. These weapons were created as methods with dealing with the Powers of Chaos. The Daemon Cage was one of these weapons and it was a planet size technological construcr made to mass imprison daemons.

>Wonder how the Necrons ever made those dolmen gates without the power of the dark gods.

The C'tan known as the Burning One taught them how. The Webway is after all, half Materium and a god of the Materium would know a few things about subverting it.

He was created because the shamans saw the coming of Chaos and the end of their warp based rebirthing, so they pooled their souls into one body to live forever.

Who knows now. Chaos fluff flips back and forth between "the dark gods transcend the birth of time" and "they were created from the emotions of mortals". GW doesn't care and neither should you.

Just because the warp was calm doesn't mean it didn't have life in it.

>Be Rogal Dorn Primarch of the Imperial Hands-Clenched-Aggressively
>Be snorting a line of fortifications when suddenly an Alpha Legion appears!!!
>Gets into attack position by repeatedly beating myself in the face
>Pain brings me strength
>All this time the Alpha Legionnaire is taunting
>It must be that Alpharius!!!
>Fight begins with an exhausting autistic slap fight but I activate my Power Armor Can Opener and finally bring him down.
>With his last words and his pants down I discover who my opponent is
>"It's ya boy skinny penis"
>Mfw my autism is off the charts

Behold my horrid edit!

Time is meaningless in the Warp.

Furies are rejected souls that no Chaos Gods want to claim. They are shaped into a grusome form by the Chaos powers and thrown to the Wastes to be tormented by the tides of the Warp.

Enslavers are not Warp creatures. They have physical bodies and can exist naturally in real space.

>Why didn't the Old Ones encounter the dark gods or why weren't their psychic races set upon by daemons when the warp was calm?

see >Why is there a wasteland outside of the realms of the dark gods instead of the dark gods controlling it all?

You mean the Chaos abyss? It's just a place for neutral parties like Forge of Souls to run their business without politics getting in the way.

mfw mine is better

>How did psykers ever get created, if you needed the power of the dark gods to make psykers?
You don't; they're born naturally but randomly (one in billion or something) but Emps wanted all 20 to be psykers

>All of which happened after he got power from the dark gods. But what about before that?
He's the guy that managed to fool the gods to give him those powers

That's old retconned fluff; and for a good reason.

You're telling me in a galaxy full of other more advanced species the actions of some middle age tier apes brought on those three?

>Enslavers
Creature Feature made me love those things more.

Nobody predates Chaos.

Be'lakor was elevated to daemonhood by the Four Powers Chaos millions of years ago. He has memories of the first Necrontyr necropolis and the first Eldar homeworlds.

He is said to be the oldest of all who dwell beneath the shadow of the Chaos Gods.

Apparently, it wasn't calm. The powers of Chaos and the daemons who serve them were active in that era. They were enough of a threat that the ancients of that time built Anti-Daemon weapons to combat Chaos and isolate their daemons from the Warp.

We all know where he got most of the DNA to make the Primarchs in the first place right?

My sides. Seriously.
Are you the same guy who wrote the thing about Mortarion getting high on poisocaine and crashing his battle barge on a Hive city?

No I made the Angron xCurze fanfic instead