I didn't understand the rules before and I don't understand them now, so no.
Angel Fisher
well depending on whether some of the PHR ships have that reinforced special rule, might make the more resilient than people initially thought given the damage system, alternatively given that there was concern heavy broadsides would be pointless, if any large enemy ships have that rule, it would make large broadsides more effective against them than mediums, as mediums would have a more difficult time getting criticals.
Parker Stewart
other picture of rules that got posted.
Gavin Flores
thats pretty much impossible to read, hard is an understatement
Jacob Jones
See if this one's better. Something happened when I uploaded it last time.
Andrew Cooper
Ooh, you beat me too it, I was just finishing my "lewd spacebutt edition" image. Well, here it is anyway.
I wonder what ships will get Regenerate. PHR (white nanomachine privilege) seems like the obvious candidate, maybe scourge as well. The next question would be which particular ships get it.
Xavier Jones
...
Anthony Carter
Cheers dude.
Ian Lewis
thank god, I wouldn't have been able to post well with a constant boner. >we now have launch capacity limits, fleet organization limits, explanations on tonnage, and a need for only 1 line battlegroup in skirmish level battles oh man oh man, I might have trouble posting anyway
Nathan Ortiz
This is the first time that a thread has died before I could make a new one; thanks for making the new OP, user.
>launch capacity >skirmish: 10 >clash: 15 >battle: 20 Oh baby, looks like BEEES-HR is going to be a thing.
Grayson Bennett
I like that you can still bring some heavy ships in a Skirmish, so you can have a bit of a "flagship" going on. In general I like that this seems less restrictive than DZC is at low points levels.
Have any of the kickstarter commenting chucklefucks started complaining that they've ordered 5 battleships and you can have a maximum of 4 in a fleet yet?
Dominic Evans
Now just need to find out how much Bellerophon, the other Battlecruiser and the Icarus vanguard are packing in launch assets, i'm assuming the Medea is only launch 1.
Evan White
>reinforced hull >regenerate >Minos pictured
PHR confirmed for tanky as fuck.
Parker Fisher
>according to facebook, rules for the corvettes are already in the book >no word about the dreadnoughts >not all special rules are on ships, and some are just there for future proofing >Invasion will be ending right about now, which means update from Hawk now or tomorrow hopefully I CAN'T WAIT
Angel Collins
What don't you understand, user-kun?
Juan Taylor
way better, does anyone else notice that open rule, I think that should be of interest, as it indicates that battlegroups may not be able to just split up and search for clues, may make your tactical options more restricted depending one what you take as far as how you move the whole thing.
Zachary Parker
>Beast ships get angry when hurt, gaining a -1 lock bonus I love Dave's rules-writing, it's just such fun.
Nathaniel Hall
I can't read.
Also I just got here two threads ago. So I know that PHR has broadsides because they like doing incredibly stupid things with their advanced technology, but not much else.
Leo Roberts
Reinforced hull might also be a point in favor of the heavy guns, if the special rule shows up enough.
Of particular note, it means that PHR medium broadsides can't crit against reinforced ships.
For example, against a 3+ ship with reinforced:
light guns: 0.67 medium guns: 0.67 heavy guns (vs non heavy): 0.67 heavy guns (vs heavy): 1.00
Perhaps the heavy guns aren't meant to take on just heavy ships in general, but instead to take on reinforced ships?
Jackson Price
Welp, here's a crash course for you.
>core mechanics The main mechanics of DFC boil down to: >Alternate activation Each battlegroup has a strategy rating assigned to it, based on the tonnage of the ships present within the battlegroup. Each player has a deck of card with each battlegroup's name and rating on one card. Before each turn, players organize the decks however they'd like, face-down. When the turn begins, players place the decks face-down and reveal the top cards; whichever of those battlegroups has the lesser strategy rating, that player may choose whether to activate first or second. Once those battlegroups that have been revealed activate, the players then reveal the next top cards, and repeat. Once all battlegroups have been activated, and the entire deck revealed, players may reorder their decks in preparation for the next turn.
>Signature+Scan For most ships, weapon range is functionally infinite; their range is equal to the scan value of the attacking ship, and the signature value of the target ship. The signature of a target ship may be modified by status effects called "spikes", of which there are minor spikes (one spike) and major spikes (two spikes), which respectively give +6" and +12" to that ships signature. A ship can only ever have a maximum of a major spike. As an example, a ship of sensor 6" wants to target a ship with signature 12" that is 18" away, and a ship with signature 3" that is 12" away. The ship can attack the first target because it is within its range, signature+scan (12+6 =18). It cannot attack the second ship, because even though it is closer in term of absolute distance, it is farther away than the signature+scan (3+6
Liam Phillips
>Orbital layers The battlefield is partitioned into three abstract vertical layers, High Orbit (HO), Low Orbit (LO), and Atmosphere (Atmo). Ships may move between orbital layers at some cost to their movement or turning, and receive accuracy penalties for shooting at ships between orbital layers. Atmosphere usually destroys most ships if they were to enter it, but some, such as small frigates, are able to.
>Crippling damage All ships have a total amount of damage points (DP); when their DP is reduced to half of their total, they are now "crippled". The ship rolls on a table of (usually nasty) status effects such as decks being on fire, deorbiting (going down a layer, possibly into atmos), weapon failure, sensor failure, engine failure, etc. It is possible for a ship to save against crippling effects, but every turn that it takes damage after being crippled, it rolls on the table again.
I'm...I'm sorry about the guy on the right. Consider it a rite of passage to put up with his shit.
Oh, and obviously I'm not recommending you watch multiple hours of videos in one go. That would be silly. Just posting them all so you've got them.
Carson Moore
>the urchins This is another good slur for the Shaltari, I like it.
Jace Fisher
SPHERE PRESERVE ME
Camden Butler
That seems ridiculously niche.
And I doubt many non-PHR ships will even have reinforced hulls. That seems like their shtick.
Gavin Cooper
I feel like reversing the colors would improve that scheme vastly.
Owen Taylor
You're probably right. Here's hoping that the heavy cannons actually do 2 damage on critical hits.
I don't think the scheme is the problem, user.
Jason Jenkins
Don't worry, I learned to put up with that dude a while ago, he's been in Infinity BoW videos as well. And he's not even the most obnoxious I've seen, there are people who simply should not be allowed to be in videos.
Daniel Morris
so that's what they mean when they say thin your paints
Charles Richardson
>And he's not even the most obnoxious I've seen, there are people who simply should not be allowed to be in videos. Now I'm intrigued, care to link us to someone worse?
Lincoln James
Found some more rules on facebook.
Elijah Hall
Hang on, so if one dice in the burnthrough gets a critical, all subsequent hits (i.e. from ALL dice that are still hitting) are criticals (i.e. you don't need to track "dice lines"? Have I got that right?
That makes BTLs quite a bit nastier if so. Also would explain the point of the Ifrit's 4 shot profile: there's a good chance you'll get a critical in the first round of rolls, and then you can get more criticals on any successful dice later.
Colton Cruz
I haven't got the link and don't even remember what the video was about since it was a long time ago and I didn't drag out my suffering any longer than was necessary, but I do remember a bit about the guy. He kept interrupting everyone else for the most inane reasons, sometimes to explain the exact same thing they were explaining, and he spoke in what was quite possibly the most terrible incarnation of that nasally stereotypical nerd voice I've ever heard. 'Twas not a good time.
Nicholas Cruz
Well shit; the picture implies that you track dice lines, but the wording is as the wording says.
Nicholas Bell
Actually, on second look, the picture doesn't imply that at all! BTL's confirmed for suddenly super great.
Samuel Johnson
That must have been horrible.
Christopher Perez
>BEEES If I'm reading it correctly, dropships and bulk landers count toward your Launch total (see pic, the Ganymede's bulk landers have a Launch value). You want to fill the sky with BEEES, you won't be able to put as many troops onto the planet below.
Luke Morales
>Fighters, Bombers, and Torpedoes are [rare] resources and as such fleets only have a [limited] amount of them. This is represented in game by a [Launch Capacity] Cap and you may not have more [than this] Capacity for Fighters, Bombers, and Torpedoes [in your fleet] than shown in the table below
Owen Martin
Well darn. And there I was thinking Hawk had pulled off a masterful piece of balance.
Disruptors are better than I was expecting. They're not going to set the world alight, but that's pretty legitimate firepower.
Julian Adams
Tossing out projective rules text for Linked.
Linked-N >this weapon may split it's attacks among N additional ships
Probably a good idea, to avoid clogging up ship profiled with four separate entries for light halfsides.
Zachary Sullivan
Sweet jesus it's wonderful. the DMC is a 2 dice 2+ to hit gun with 3 damage per hit and an auto cripple roll, and it's broadsides get the lock bonus against light and heavy ships if I'm reading it correctly
Aiden Jackson
Also my reading of the linked rules is that different guns with the same link values count as one gun for the purposes of firing in orders, which would be quite nice for the purposes of standard orders etc
Xavier King
It's great, but do keep in mind that each individual point of damage is saved against by armor on non-critical hits. Also, the callibre rule is for (H)eavy and (S)uperheavy; not (L)ight and (M)edium.
Josiah Murphy
>Also my reading of the linked rules is that different guns with the same link values count as one gun for the purposes of firing in orders, which would be quite nice for the purposes of standard orders etc Where did you read that? It'd also make no sense (and make PHR incredibly powerful) if all they got to do extra for weapons free is fire their (relatively underwhelming) prow weapons.
I'm going with for my interpretation.
Chase Gutierrez
I thought that was an S for Superheavy.
It's significant though that heavy broadsides are extra effective against heavy cruisers (though it seems obvious saying it now). That means there'll be many more targets for them, they're not just for having a go at battleships.
Chase Campbell
That would fit with how the Alt rule works.
Charles Bell
Ah balls, the broadsides arent quite as good as I was hoping. Still, when you're normally critting on a 4+ with the DMC, that's going to be a reasonable level of damage it's putting out even with armour. And 3 damage means a decent chance for not crit hits to get some damage in, which triggers the cripple table which is the real nasty.
Jonathan Cox
>It's significant though that heavy broadsides are extra effective against heavy cruisers (though it seems obvious saying it now). IDK, based on the beta stats and all that napkin math we did a thread or two ago, heavy broadsides don't seem that much more effective than medium broadsides.
With the Heracles confirming our numbers, we'll just have to see how it plays out in game.
Brody Bennett
I wonder if Dave worked out the displacements by dropping the models into a tub of water filled to the brim, then multiplying by the game's scale. I wouldn't put it past him.
Lincoln Watson
well this makes my little project seem somewhat worthless now, but ive been writing a program to determine the probabilities for any given BTL against every possible target -- potentially even BTL's that don't exist yet. I think the RAI are what we've all been thinking, but RAW seems to be contradicting itself -- day 1 errata?
Noah Cruz
user, I'm fairly sure he can use CAD to figure out the volume of the model.
I like your idea more
Daniel Gutierrez
nah, he probably has a subroutine in CAD to figure it out given the scale -- but i totally see him "testing" his models out afterwords doing that :P
Save value 4 with shields up 0 damage: 25.2401% chance 1 damage: 26.3374% chance 2 damage: 21.6735% chance 3 damage: 15.3635% chance 4 damage: 8.23045% chance 5 damage: 2.74348% chance 6 damage: 0.411523% chance mean: 1.64883
John Cooper
>I think the RAI are what we've all been thinking, but RAW seems to be contradicting itself Where is the contradiction? It pretty explicitly says: >If a Critical Hit ... Any subsequent hits rolled by this weapon... ignore the target's armor too. And then says in the example: >ALL subsequent successes are Critical Hits
This also makes calculating statistics much, much easier, since now there's only dice pools, rather than dice lines.
Save value 4 with shields up 0 damage: 51.8519% chance 1 damage: 29.6296% chance 2 damage: 14.8148% chance 3 damage: 3.7037% chance mean: 0.703704
Sebastian Rodriguez
As best as I can tell, I think it's saying that all hits rolled before the critical don't ignore armor, but all those rolled after do. It seems a little clumsily worded.
David Cook
>Calibre: (H&S) Does that mean heavy and light?
Austin Jenkins
It's interesting how the probability for 6 damage suddenly jumps upwards for armor 4+ and 5+, but I presume this is because of it being an infinite summation of the probabilities for 6, 7, 8, ..., n damage.
Thomas Martin
see
Charles Campbell
Spasibaw.
Xavier Kelly
you're right. I was misunderstanding the intent of the sentence before the sentence in question. the explanation on the graphic clearly explains their intent, i was just caught up in my old project and assumed they had meant what we all all interpreted
Nicholas Gomez
oh well, ill keep going and post updated numbers later UCM Avalon's Super Heavy Laser Save value 3 0 damage: 5.44231% chance 1 damage: 7.66779% chance 2 damage: 9.59763% chance 3 damage: 10.51% chance 4 damage: 11.4102% chance 5 damage: 13.602% chance 6 damage: 16.256% chance 7 damage: 16.738% chance 8 damage: 8.77608% chance mean: 4.56955
Save value 3 with scald 0 damage: 20.3704% chance 1 damage: 16.2037% chance 2 damage: 19.9074% chance 3 damage: 43.5185% chance mean: 1.86574
Save value 4 with scald 0 damage: 18.8615% chance 1 damage: 15.2263% chance 2 damage: 18.3642% chance 3 damage: 47.548% chance mean: 1.94599
Save value 5 with scald 0 damage: 17.6612% chance 1 damage: 14.3519% chance 2 damage: 15.6893% chance 3 damage: 52.2977% chance mean: 2.02623
Save value 4 with shields up 0 damage: 33.7384% chance 1 damage: 34.4329% chance 2 damage: 24.5949% chance 3 damage: 7.2338% chance mean: 1.05324
Gabriel Sanders
and finally this -- ill be outta the way and stop shitting up the thread with wrong numbers until i fix the program Scourge BTL on 2 shot mode Save value 3 0 damage: 41.3465% chance 1 damage: 25.665% chance 2 damage: 14.6839% chance 3 damage: 8.53879% chance 4 damage: 5.07604% chance 5 damage: 3.04543% chance 6 damage: 1.64437% chance mean: 1.26047
Save value 4 with shields up 0 damage: 44.4824% chance 1 damage: 29.834% chance 2 damage: 15.2344% chance 3 damage: 6.93359% chance 4 damage: 2.68555% chance 5 damage: 0.732422% chance 6 damage: 0.0976563% chance mean: 0.960937
William Ramirez
Thanks admiral user, it's still good to see how effective Shaltari shields are at utterly fucking over damage output.
The one question I do have, however, is how do Shaltari Shields act with armor? Do they entirely replace the armor save, saving against both crits and normals, or do normal hits also have to make the armor save after making the shield save?
Jaxson Howard
It doesn't specify whether rerolls must be done simultaneously and how that's handled, so it needs clarification at a minimum.
Brayden Nelson
>Platinum is 7 launch capacity >Basalt is 4 >Max BEEEStari at skirmish is two basalts at 8 launch >Max BEEEStari at clash is two basalts and a platinum at 15 launch, or two platinums at 14 launch, or three basalts at 12 launch >Max BEEEStari at battle is five basalts at 20 launch, or two platinums and a basalt at 18 launch, or a platinum and three basalts at 19 launch.
Lincoln Myers
Math tip: No infinite summation necessary, just subtract prior probabilities from 1.
Jeremiah Perez
The example image explicitly labels two separate dice being rolled as "1st roll", "2nd roll", "3rd roll", etc, implying that all re-rolled dice are rolled simultaneously.
Levi Foster
they completely replace the armor save -- i was just lazy in formatting my cout statements :P
Ryan Richardson
>Thanks admiral user, it's still good to see how effective Shaltari shields are at utterly fucking over damage output. BTLs are fucked over by it worse than anything else because the critical carryover is worthless.
Brandon Turner
Right, but I'm saying that the sudden jump in probability (while capable of being represented by 1- all other probability) is because of the infinite series of probabilities for 6, 7, 8,... damage being collapsed into the 6 damage slot, as an explanation for why it makes that jump.
Robert Gray
and done with the new version of the progam and the numbers are ....actually not very different. This is probably why they changed it, since this version is MUCH faster on the table top and the difference in damage overall is pretty minor i can post the numbers for these new rules if anyone wants but otherwise the old numbers are pretty darn similar
David Walker
It might be lawyered that this is only an easy graphical representation which is superseded by the written rules. I expect the necessary clarification will agree with you.
Jackson Roberts
Ah, that's good to hear. The alternative would make Shaltari some of the tankiest fuckers in the game with shields up, even moreso than they already are.
The fact that they lose their "armor" with shields up is strange fluffwise, but I'd guess that their normal "armor" is actually just their shields on low power.
True, but pretty much everything gets fucked hard by no longer having crits in effect.
Austin Cook
that and since P({roll n crit} | {r(n-1)c} {r(n-2)c} ...) gets pretty big as you go deeper
Jaxson Turner
If you want to post them, transcribing them into some excel tables would probably be the best. It's interesting that the damage isn't that much different though.
Brody Hall
true, however the data i havent shown is the chance of getting all crits -- which is a bigass number (relatively speaking) even with the old interpretation for a BTL, relative to any other weapon system
Brandon Ross
Man, it's been way to long since I've had a stats class, hopefully I'll be able to job my memory for this stuff in a semester or two.
Christopher Reyes
hrm, well excel isn't much easier to post here, but rather than that ill change my output to make them into .tek files and compile it all onto one pdf, much easier Veeky Forums format.
Julian Gutierrez
Fair enough, but logically simultaneous rolls would be required (at least to make it easier) for the cascading crit dice pool thing, as well as not having to roll more dice than you have to for the maximum cap.
Like, if I rolled the cobra laser one die at a time until it failed, I could be doing 6 rolls with a single die, and then rolling with the second one until I get to 6, or fail, and then having to match them up to see what crits apply where and which hits count and etc.
It's just easier to say "you roll dice pools simultaneously"
Jace Powell
Wait, actually, better names.
>UBM: United BEEES of Mankind >Scourge of BEEES >BHR >shaltarBEEES
Benjamin Flores
>BHR
Nolan Lee
...
Jack Howard
10/10
Justin Powell
Reminder that the PHR's close action weapons (seen so far) are wasp drones and hornet drones.
Cameron Bell
>the flat surfaces of the PHR ships mean they're perfect for templates and stencils >hexagon pattern Mother of god, it keeps getting better.
Oliver Long
>>hexagon pattern To bad the PHR don't have shields, as their hulls would be perfect for the "shield-grid" glow effect using hex airbrush templates.
Colton Gutierrez
ok, here's a pdf of the data with the new rules that we're seeing (i think i put the right things all in the right place)
