Warmachine/Hordes General

I'm not sure there's a single heavy with zero overhang.

Conservator in Convergence is the first one I think of.

Monitor's not too bad either.

I remember most of the Ret crab heavies being pretty good about overhang.

Whenever they feel like it

And not going to happen

If their printing process is anything like their model production process, I wouldn't hold your breath while they've got 10 to 20 force and theme books in the pipeline.

DID SOMEBODY SAY

OVERHANG?!

No but seriously the overhang is the main reason I don't want to buy one of these. It's bad enough not being able to play with titans without having to moonwalk whenever there's combat, but this guy just takes the fucking piss at that price point

It's an amazing model, but yea.

Pride rock, magnetizing, and raised basing work help write a bit. But it's still an unmitigated disaster to play with no matter what you do. Everyone claims it can get shot off the table anyway. Haven't seen it happen though.

Can everyone stop acting like eMadrak and Gunbjorn are some unstoppable force? Tournament results and playtesting showed that they fare average and Ragnor/Doomy2 are the powerhouses.

The people not playing Madrak2 are just being polite.

eMadrak is a meme. Sure, he probably rolfstomps newbies but there is a reason they don’t sweep tournaments. Way too many things counter Madrak, including himself if he fails at going Rambo.

My local discount books retailer has a buncha copies of Grind on sale. How is the game? I've been looking to rebuild my decimated tt board games collection. And how big of a faggort am I if I konvert the jacks as addons to supplement my previously jack-lite armies? Mk3 has made me want more robutts. Like, if I magnetize arms/hands so they can play smashball or with a fast swap go wreck face in gaems, is that kosher?

His problem is that he bends the fuck out of list building.

You simply can't afford to bring any sort of infantry against him.

Why do people even bring infantry? It can't really deal with heavies, so just being heavies and you beat infantry. Easy.

Plenty of people can bring infantry that can deal with heavies.

Irusk2, Ossyan, Butcher1, and pDenny off the top of my head.

>New rpg book when?
>Rpg rules update when?

They can't even get the current product range produced in time. You expect them to do more?

This model wasn't even supposed to be in this pose, the original art I saw had it standing upright, but they didn't have the time or money for a resculpt, so they gave it to an in-house sculptor make alterations to it and add all the details.

Someone really needs to go over to PP HQ, smack all the production managers in the head, and straighten out their freaking process flow from top to bottom. It's insane.

>Someone really needs to go over to PP HQ, smack all the production managers in the head, and straighten out their freaking process flow from top to bottom

Many have tried. They either quit or were fired, or they decided it wasn't worth the trouble and just keep their heads down and don't interfere.

Sucks, but that's what happens with cronyism.

To kill khador and ret infantry.

That was Jay Larson's innovation, as if it needed to get any worse. Spam single wound troll infantry, and Blood Fury does the rest. You simply can't afford NOT to bring infantry, battlegroup skew gets carved up by ~20 Trollblood weaponmaster Fennblades/Krielwarriors out of 40 potentials.

Well, from by observance, the reason he hasn't swept tournaments is because invariably the last guy in the chain of games that makes a tournament isn't playing against Madrak2.

>trolls
>using warders
>innovative

Collect your retard point, user. Seriously, you've earned it.

>Madrak2
>Mauler
>Earthborn
>Lanyssa Ryssyl
>Fell Caller Hero
>Swamp Gobber Chef
>Swamp Gobber Chef
>Krielstone
>Fennblades w/ UA
>Fennblades
>Kriel Warriors
>Kriel Warriors

So in MK3, how is the Archangel now?

Better, and can be made to work, though I don't know if I can define it as great.

It's animus actually does something now(and can be very good in certain situations, and it's Reposition lets it shoot and scoot to keep it safe from charges.

That d3+1 on the gun really hurts though, along with the RNG10 and still only being AOE3 when the Ravagore picked up AOE4.

So, as a utterly new player to warmachine, I came up with a 15 point beginners list for myself so as to try out this game:
Lord Kozolov[+28]
-Decimator [16]
-Juggernaut [12]
Manhunter [4]
Man-O-War Shocktroopers (min) [10]

[14/15]
What do ya'll think? One thing to note, all the units in the list are free in WarRoom without paying for the Khador deck.

How bad is this list? I've heard both the Manhunter and the Man'O wars are both trash tier, so I have yet to order either of them.

It's been well over a year since I've painted anything Warmachine/Hordes related so I decided to get back to it with my favorite model I've horded but never painted: Dozer and Smigg. Had these guys sitting in my backfill for around a year, primed but never started. Just put a few base coats on him for now and halfway through that I accidentaly dropped him a small distance and he scratched his face and hands. That's to explain the primer I've put over some parts. I hope Dozer turns out nice.

Any game fellow can tell me if he got better in Mk III? From what I remember of Dozer and Smigg in Mk II is that they were kinda fun with the inaccuracies, but rather inefficient and better left with a bomber. Is that about the same as they are now?

Manhunters just suffer from being combat solos, which, unless their stats are insane, just don't do the work you need them too. They're not bad, per say, but it's hard to get them to have a real impact on the battle. And that 4-5 point solo slot is fought over a huge amount of models, so simply being ok doesn't cut it.

MoWs are a lot better, especially with the UA coming out this month, and I believe Kozolov wants to bring them. But they're a difficult unit to use because of how slow they are.

Juggernaught is a cheap beatstick, and very good at what it does.

Decimator is a bit weirder, but better this edition.

It's an alright list for a beginner, though there's a ton of other things you can slot into that solo spot.

What did MK3 change for the Skorne?

If this isn't bait, then I'm sorry man.

I'm really sorry.

Skorne lost a lot, all around. They picked up some new stuff that could be interesting if it actually worked. There's a big debate about Skorne's position in the game right now, and the developer response to it has not been promising.

I'm happy to hear I'm not completely borked when it comes to my list; Just from doing a bit of browsing, I already hear plenty about how Kazyak Eliminators are miles better. I've also heard a lot of bad things about MoW, but im also glad to hear they've gotten better.

But remember, I'm just stuck with what ever cards I can get on WarRoom, and at the moment, Manhunters are the only Solo with a free card.

Our heavies got cheaper but we lost punching power, Karn got the nerf bat, Cataphracts lost DEF and boxes, titans lost DEF, our small infantry is basically unchanged which means it's still shit. Makeda1 was nerfed into the ground for no apparent reason.

The only upside is the Gladiator was basically unchanged but got cheaper, so you can just spam them now. And the Cannoneer is very good. Pretty much all of my lists are now 2/3 Gladiators, 1 Cannoneer, and 1 Bronzeback to manage their fury/punch shit.

Models come with their cards. If you buy the model, you get it's stats and everything.

War room is mostly used for damage tracking faster, holding lists, and faster reference for rules and such. But you don't specifically need it to play.

What about the Mammoth?

Or for that matter, the units like the Void Spirit or the Catapult?

Catapult promises to be better, but it wants the new solo to really work.

Mammoth went down to AOE3, but picked up RAT and some boxes. It's about the same/slightly better.

They got better, but it's not like they're incredible. The Master Tormentor is great at mauling infantry now though with its Apparition and MAT8.

Skorne in Mk3 as summarized by user:

>Fury Management
Condition on beasthandlers got nerfed so there is less fury management
Enrage no longer gives free charges and Skorne now has no access to free charges
Titans had their fury reduced

>Defensive stats
Titans had their def reduced by 2
Cataphracts lost 3 boxes

>Animus
Far Strike became self only
Fatewalker got worse
Krea bubble lost its Arm bonus
Skorne gained Spiny Growth but Spiny Growth became self only
Sentry lost Locker

Losing theme forces hurt Cataphract play or usage
Morg2 got his feat back but lost a few rules (like immunity to CMA/CRA) and traded out Silence of Death (which got buffed in Mk3) for a shitty nuke
Makeda1 randomly lost Combo-Strike, Defender's Ward and traded Savagery for Quicken
Makeda2 lost Road to War and Leash
So now only Mak1/Morg1/Xerxis2 can buff speed
Spell slave can't cast upkeeps anymore so Marketh is now pretty costly for something of debatable use
Xerxis1 lost Inhospitable Ground for Rift
Mobility went up in cost which hurts Xerxis2's gameplay
Croak raiders got nerfed
Gators got nerfed
Archidon is shit
Rhinodon is shit
Bog Trog Ambushers got nerfed
Hakaar doesn't count as an Ancestral Guardian anymore so Zaal can't Direct Spirits to him
Zaal traded Invioable Resolve for a spell that makes models undead (hence no longer producing souls for him/his guardians)

There's tons more and PP even admitted in an AMA they basically have no idea what they are doing with Skorne.

Cataphracts lost a point of def too.

Oh and you forgot about placed models not being able to attack, making Makeda1's feat and Mordikaar's Revive worse by a lot.

Funny how spoiling Makeda1's feat was what made people think placed models couldn't attack that turn as a rule. Turns out they were just nerfing a mediocre feat.

>PP even admitted in an AMA they basically have no idea what they are doing with Skorne.

Like GW admitted they didn't know what they were doing with Orks?

Seems odd. I usually don't expect wargame companies to admit they don't know what they're doing with one of their own factions.

Still, at least Privateer Press is honest about it.

They didn't so much admit that they don't know what they're doing, as much as they insist on keeping Skorne in a very specific sort of tactical/strategic niche that's notorious for being very hard to balance competitively.

>Croak raiders got nerfed

>Gators got nerfed

So Chain Gang, in essence, got nerfed too then I'm assuming.

Tier lists no longer exist as you knew thatm.

There's new ones coming, though only two are out and I think one more has been previewed.

They're no longer caster specific, however, and meant to fit a more general theme.

Who all has theme forces right now? Just Mercs right?
>Mercs - Cephalyx - Operating Theater
>Mercs - Kingmaker

PoM one got previewed, but those are the only ones officially released.

>>PP even admitted in an AMA they basically have no idea what they are doing with Skorne.
>Still, at least Privateer Press is honest about it.

No, they aren't. There is a clear idea about the Skorne, it's just that certain other staff are interfering since they have their own idea and want it to be used.

It's basically the PP version of our Congress, each side is preventing the other from doing anything.

>tfw Trolls are better counterpunch faction than Skorne

Though by no means even beginning to turn things around for Skorne, I recall that they made Gakaar count as an ancestral guardian again.

They also said that BB's Fury management stacks, though why you'd bring two BBs is a question.

>only works on non-BB titans
>paying more points to take extra BB titans over other titans, while also making the leadership ability less useful by having fewer titans that can be affected by it
>they arrived at this ruling to correct their previous ruling, which had been ruled incorrectly, because they ruled it without knowing their own rules

And these chucklefucks expect us to believe them when they say the erratas and theme forces will make everything click.

And have been for all of Mk2. I don't get why PP suddenly want Skorne to take their place. It's pretty dumb.

Why pay 18 for a BB when you could pay 19 for a Gladiator and a min Handlers?

Or 18 for Zaadesh with a Gladiator.

larger life spiral, MAT 7, Grab & Smash, counter charge, base str 13 for power attacks.

And well, most people would just take a Glad + BB + PGBH cuz you know they kinda all work well together.

We're you planning to run Zaadesh right into the middle of the fight so that Tag Team actually benefits the Gladiator? Kinda risky but sure I guess...

>We're you planning to run Zaadesh right into the middle of the fight so that Tag Team actually benefits the Gladiator? Kinda risky but sure I guess...
Sure. When you commit the Gladiator it's gone anyway. Might aswell take that sweet MAT8 P+S18 to actually deal some damage for once.

>And well, most people would just take a Glad + BB + PGBH cuz you know they kinda all work well together.
But 2xGlad + PGBH works better and costs 4 points less.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

The BB sustains more damage, and dishes out more damage then the Gladiator at a higher MAT, and the combo means both models will be dishing out 8 attacks each vs. 7 for twins.

The BB also brings in useful abilities like beatback, counter charge, as well as being able to throw a beat to shit heavy at other things up to 7.5" (when enraged).

Double gladiators is cheap and fine, but their not that scary where as the the BB is an undisputed beast that my opponents know not to just waltz up to.

>Like GW admitted they didn't know what they were doing with Orks?

Ex-40k player here; as far as I'm aware they made no such announcement. What happened was one of the guys who wrote a Fantasy Orc and Goblin book admitted that he didn't really like the army. Which isn't really any better and it's obvious that they don't care about Orks in 40k either, but stuff.

Yes to all, but you usually just want a BB in your army so at this point better scrap up 4 point and upgrade it with Tiberion that is just plain better at everything.

Then you have to consider that a SPD 4 beast with 1" threat will never be delivered so you always need a Gladiator at least.

BB was slow as fuck even in MKII, but the free charge + the old beat back + plus the amount of initial attacks + all the various SPD buff that Skorne had made the BB a great piece with plenty of strange ways to his target.

With MKIII he lost free charge, Skorne lost a lot of SPD buff, you can no longer made beat back trick made the BB in MKIII the shadow of what he was.

Nigger if you're running Zaadesh, you bring 2 Cyclops Brutes along for the ride. And you only do it with Morghoul1 because +6 damage on 10 attacks is PRETTY GOOD. You get more boxes than a titan, almost as much armour as a titan, better total defensive stats than a titan with 15DEF against charges, a pair of shield guards, higher speed, and it's spread across two bodies.

Morg1 + Zaadesh 2 Brute is very legit. You just send them out to a flank and they'll hold it. Then when something needs killing, they'll hit it harder than a regular Gladiator can in most lists.

Yeah that's pretty good too. The Zaadesh+Gladiator combo is more for spamming Rush and getting some high-POW attacks (20 before caster buffs) out late-game.

Honestly the Rush spam is overrated. It's only really worthwhile turn 1, and if Zaadesh casts Rush turn 1 it means he has to spend next turn casting Tag Team rather than keeping up transfers or something like that. I've tried both and the Brutes felt a lot better.

I'd swap the manhunter out for some mechaniks

The problem is you have to suicide Zaadesh to get those high POW attacks, and while scooping up wild beasts isn't really that big of a deal, it's better if you don't have to do it.

Link?

Don't forget that Aptimus Marketh now can't cast anything you want him to cast, but didn't get any cheaper. Now there's basically no reason to use him in any list. Like man, Makeda1 got hit by the nerf bat so hard it's unreal. She easily got hit harder than anyone else in Skorne, and I'd love to hear an example of a worse nerfing. Fucking competitive Cryx casters didn't get it THIS hard.

>Lost Defender's Ward AND Savagery
>They were replaced with an upkeep that gives beasts Shield Guard, and a bad mix of Defender's Ward and Savagery
>Aptimus can't cast her shit anymore which means no cycling upkeeps, not that she has ones you can cycle anymore
>Molik Karn ate some nasty nerfs
>Models brought back with her feat now can't attack the turn they enter
>Lost combo strike
I'm surprised they didn't remove her magical weapon honestly. She used to be a solid mid level caster. No tricks, no gimmicks, just a nice solid caster. SHE WASN'T EVEN COMPETITIVE.

>but didn't get any cheaper
He got slightly more expensive.

>I'm surprised they didn't remove her magical weapon honestly. She used to be a solid mid level caster. No tricks, no gimmicks, just a nice solid caster. SHE WASN'T EVEN COMPETITIVE.
PP brain damage.

you know what riles (heh) me the fuck up more than model overhang?

basing overhang. especially all the mongoloids who have all their models sitting ontop of massive boulders.

He's 6 points, and used to be 3. He stayed the same. Unless you're looking at it from a standpoint of "losing the ability to cast upkeep spells" without getting a point reduction makes him come out as more expensive value-wise.

Points weren't doubled. It's more like x1.9. Anything which stayed the same costs more and thus is worse. See: Incindiarii.

Anyone get that funny feeling that MK3 just made the game worse?

Worse in some ways, better in others. But what it has done is showcase a level of negligence on the part of PP that we thought they had grown out of by now. I absolutely love the, "THEY'RE A SMALL COMPANY YOU SHITLORDS" defense that many of the podcasters and forum members have created. Corvus Belli, the Spanish firm that makes Infinity, is probably just as small as PP, and yet runs their game, ironically, like a well-oiled machine. You don't see them pulling rushed releases and ruining one faction in particular.

Our illusion of a competent dev was shattered. That, more than the rules, is what makes mk3 taste so sour.

>New to WMH
>buy 2 player battle box of both Warmachine and Hordes because value and physical mini rulebooks
>check online pdfs while waiting for shipping
>FOURTEEN pages of errata

Jesus fuck guys, this early in and 14 pages already? Is there even a point to own the physical rules?
I'm huge on physical media as it speeds my games up, this is going to suck

/nice.jpg

>David Carl is now full time in Steamforged
>Guild Ball is now my main game forever

What the fuck did they do to DC at PP to make him leave after MKIII?

>14 pages
Most of those are listing every model that has Flank, Gang, Tactician, and True Sight due to the changes to those four rules.

Nobody told him about mk3 until the project was basically complete, according to rumor at least.

Incindiarii are probably a bad example, since they didn't stay the same. They got their DEF and boxes reduced, but stayed the same cost.

Not really. The core rules of the game are honestly better than Mk2. Faction balance is totally fucked though.

If we want to keep playing this game we kind of have to accept that we're basically all taking part in the Mk3 Field Test right now. It'll be awhile before PP actually fixes stuff, until then the game feels kind weird.

That I'd assuming they actually make due on their promises and fix under/overpowered stuff. This upcoming errata is incredibly important, of they fuck it up the community is never going to forgive them.

I personally have about zero faith at this point. Hopefully I'm surprised

I paid for finished product

>Is there even a point to own the physical rules?
Not really? The only reason to buy the books is for art/lore. All the rules are free online or in War Room

I've always been a fan of the physical rules due to how easy I can flip through it vs searching forever on a pdf. With all this errata I guess I'm just fucked.

and ye, the clouds did parten, and a golden beam of light struck the earth, and behold for PP asketh for proper playtesters to actually put mk3 right.
Rejoice?: y / y

privateerpress.com/organized-play/playtest-application-and-instructions

Well that was your mistake. Pretty much everyone knew before we even saw the rules that this would be a ~6 to 12 month field test.

If you bought in expecting otherwise you're incredibly foolish. If you're a brand new player this is going to suck for awhile so either keep having fun or go play a better game.

>terrain plays important part of the game
>PP refuses to standardize terrain
explain this to me

What do you mean by standardize? You mean like have all forests be a specific size and dimensions?

Main reason is that's incredibly dumb. The second you do that you invalidate every piece of terrain every LGS and club has and force your entire community to either buy new terrain just for this game or be unable to play. All of your future events are fucked for a while too since it takes a long time to make new terrain for a 64+ person event.

You also kill a huge part of the hobby aspect of the game.

Actually no, size is not important
Number of terrain and their placement is more important.
Obviously this game was designed with somekind of map design in mind

>What the fuck did they do to DC at PP to make him leave after MKIII?

Same thing they do to everyone else that falls out of favor, they exclude them and either wait for them to get fed up and leave or they can build up an excuse to fire them.

Make no doubt, PP is filled with very immature and unprofessional people.