What do you guys think of this game and its miniatures? How hard do you guys think it will be to find other people who play it? In the GTA specifically
A pro and con is that they have cheap models. A "mega army" costs £100, or $171CAD and has about 140 miniatures in it as opposed to GW where 10 space marines can go for $50CAD. I feel like this would mean the models are low quality but after checking them out I think they look fine.
Thoughts?
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I think the rules are pretty good. It's like WFB without a lot of the bullshit (I never knew how much I hated static combat resolution until I played KoW and didn't have to stand there counting ranks, flank/rear bonuses, challenges, etc. on both hands.) Don't have any of the models, but that's the beauty. I have a lot of old GW models laying about since I'm salty about AoS, and I can put them right into play in KoW.
its not always the case, but yeah generally quality is lower. They're sometimes smaller too, the Mantic "big guys" like say ogres aren't as big as the GW versions.
But if you're into things mainly for the game aspect that's not an issue.
>game
Seams like a solid game with good rules
>miniatures
Most of their minis look like a pile of ork shit.
I like their hard plastic stuff (Better than what Privateer Press does at least, and underrated because of the bad studio paint jobs) but I am not super impressed by their resin and metal figures (Value and design wise compared to other companies, they just aren't as good). The rules are a million better times than 8th Edition and AoS though, so I just play the game with GW, Mantic, Reaper, Rackham, Wyrd, and Privateer Press figures in my army.
Their bulk deals are OK (I got their undead batch whose only subpar figures are the mummies). In the end it depends on what you are going for.
My store has guys meet up to play the game every week or every other week depending on the circumstances. If you are at a decently sized place I am sure that it won't be hard if you let people know that you are interested.
Ew
Minis are hit or miss, and a lot of it depends on your taste. I have some Ogres and I quite like them, even with their tiny legs, as I always HATED the GW Ogres.
The rules, however, are solid as fuck. They're easy to learn, over plenty of tactical depth and aren't loaded down with all the bullshit thag made WHFB such a bog after a while. No 20 minute combats figuring out bonuses and equipment and that shit, no counting ranks to see how many attacks you get, no charts and tables to consult to see what you need to roll.
Smooth, simple and fun as all hell.
>Thoughts?
It exploded on Veeky Forums like a year ago.
Discussion died out because the game has no major issues to bitch about and not much lore to discuss. The only thing we discussed were what armies to buy, list creation, and introductory strategy/tactics.
You already missed out on the Veeky Forums scene.
We're at /awg/ threads now
>How hard do you guys think it will be to find other people who play it?
Not hard. Everybody went KoW or 9th age.
It's more popular on the East coast than West coast, and even here on the West coast (USA) I can get a game every weekend.
Check out Facebook groups and ask around on the forum, you'll probably find a group for your area.
Europe has more players by density, of course, though.
Do note, Mantic's own painters suck ass. ASS.
I would definitely agree with this guy. It debloated WHFB the right way. While AoS has a million special rules, KoW does rank based I go you go encounters in a practical way as turns are fast.
I like the game as in an age where everything is trying to be a card game with a million special rules+combos, and regressing to a skirmish size, KoW does standard unit vs. unit battles where each unit is largely its number line and a set of easily memorizable characteristics.
The only real complaints about the thing outside of models have been simplistic magic, lack of character customization options, and lack of fluff. The most recent book however just added character customization rules, and the upcoming books is supposedly adding more fluff along with a bunch of other fun things like siege rules and more units. All that is left really is magic rules.
>Minis are hit or miss
>Ew
>Most of their minis look like a pile of ork shit.
>generally quality is lower
Again, Mantic's painters suck ass. Look at unpainted models, or 3rd party paint jobs. They pack some decent detail.
They had some early production quality problems which got ironed out, then the one Basilean army has a funny story about why you don't source injection molding to China (story in a second). The aesthetics on some stuff has people divided, and the Dwarves are probably arguably the lowest detail models overall but they paint up real nice.
Their newer (post-launch) stuff is solid though.
I am glad to hear that they are redoing the Basileans. I hope that they come out more Byzantine themed than their current iteration. Worse comes to worse we will at least have some Sisters of Sigmar proxies for Mordheim.
I wouldn't play if I had to go back to a massed battle game with individual casualty removal.
I feel the same way. After playing KoW I just can't go back to individual model removal. It just feels so clunky compared to KoW where there isn't any model removal.
Magic was intentionally simple, the whole game was a response to WHFB for which super-influential and swing-y magic was core. I doubt we'll see a major "revamp" of the magic system since there's no technical problems with it and any expansion would be bloated. It literally has just what it needs.
>Basileans
Actually we won't see a re-do for some time. They're going to finish putting out stuff for all armies, the Twilight Kin are going back in the oven, first.
Story attached
Fucking Chinks
I've seen them in person though, we've got a couple Basilean players. They're not as bad as people say, and they're SUPER cheap. The M@A can be fixed with minor cuts or kitbashing, the SoB's worst problem are just the largish hands, and you'll never notice the Paladins are slightly shorter unless you're holding both models side by side.
But they said that the new Basileans are coming in January manticblog.com
Case in point about the painters
Don't judge by the in-webstore photos.
FUCK YES
Sorry man, I've been out of the loop since... February?
Veeky Forums is even further out of the loop. We haven't had a /kowg/ in forever
There is not much to talk about, not many people who play the game, and I honestly don't think that threads for KoW should be made more than once a week. Not every game needs to have a general running 24/7 as board culture seems to mandate.
>not many people who play the game
There's nearly 100 players around my city, and KoW has been picked up by some of the country-wide tournament organizations.
Where do you live?
Northern Illinois. There are certainly more dudes who play it than a lot of other games, but overall it isn't as big here as Flames of War or Saga. Nationwide I am not sure about how big the game is, though you are right at a lot of former WHFB tourneys picking it up.
As a American, I find their prices a tad bit too high for what they're selling. With resellers and ebay, and a lack of incentive to play with their actual mini's, I dont see much of a reason to ever use them. I especially think that they dropped the ball on the whole AoS catastrophe; they could have swept the whole scene by storm, stealing Sigmar's (pun intended) thunder. But instead, they pushed a sci-fi wargame, and waited months to do anything. And that anything was just to release a shitty knock off of tomb kings.
>I find their prices a tad bit too high for what they're selling
Are you looking at single units, or the army bundles? The mega army bundles are usually a good deal.
I will corroborate what he says. Their individual metal guys in blisters for example go for the exact same price that other companies charge for theirs. When I can get shit like pic related for the same price, it just isn't a good deal.
Their bulk plastics on the other hand, especially from resalers, are really cheap. I paid less than $1 a piece for my zombies, and other companies just can't compete in that regard.
>metal
>expensive
This is why they've been pushing towards Restic.
It's the other way around for Mantic though. Older models like their ogres were entirely restic, whereas new figures have been metal or in the case of things like their Obsidian Golem, resin. They have been doing this largely out of quality complaints, and metal certainly captures detail better than restic.
On the other hand, when they switched from Metal to Restic, they had a habit of doubling the units in the box for the same price.
I'm fine with Restic.
>Do note, Mantic's own painters suck ass. ASS.
Have you seen the new Abyssal Tortured Souls? The painting is disgracefully bad. Embarrassing.
I really don't understand the reasoning behind this.
An amazing painter will make even a shitty model look somewhat desirable.
A shitty painter will kill even an amazing model.
Hiring one or two great painters can't be that expensive, GeeDubs has been paying Golden Demon winners minimum wage for years. Just hire two of those guys for Minimum Wage + 10%!
100% agree
I have much mantic, do I like them? no
Cheap, no customer service, but cheap. I guess a cheap GW streamlining of rules, just use the rules......
Single units. I rarely buy whole armies at once, so mega-armies areny exactly appealing to me.
So is this why the nuns all have gorilla arms?
I was really hopeful at the time of adding farmer-wives and nuns to my farmer and brigand Empire army but I hated the gorilla arms so much I ended up hunting down old Sigmar Sisters and all the peasant ladies I could find.
Depending of the army the look like ass, fine, weird but not bad or good for me. Avoid basileans because they will make knew ones, specially incredible bad Man at arms. About the game is the best I found for mass battles, fast lean and tactical enough. I only want more options, but how to do that without effecting the blance is the trick.
Also for cheap minis than look cool (if the casting some times is a bit shit) momminiaturas is my prefered mini maker.
>no customer service
I've contacted their customer service multiple times and they've always been quick and easy to deal with.
Is there a good one lace to find strategy, tactics, and army-building advice for this game?
I'm curious to see how the different armies play, and how the units work compared to other stuff in the same army.
>The mega army bundles are usually a good deal.
How are they usually in terms of army composition? Will you be using most of the stuff in the bundle, or will you be dropping some of it out in favor of other units?
>good one lace
*good place
Not sure what happened with the autocorrect there...
Chariots are a bit lame because of their footprint and cannon-type warmachines aren't reliable enough for a serious tourney-goer, plus there are a few of the more obscure heroes which don't pull their weight. Otherwise they're really aren't any crap units. Some units are more optimal at different sizes (troop/regiment/horde) but you will find a use for all of them.
So yeah, you'll use everything in the army deals.
Shame the undead bundles have a bit of everything, I am only interested in skeletals.
trying to help a guy with his ogres. Got a match against him with my KoM and I butt rape him, feeling soo bad that I need to help him.
What are the common strategies with ogres? Is grokamagot good with a flying item? Is are boomer good with gobos doing a wall infront of them (advancing with gobos as shield and just getting in range to burst their range)?
Also an ogre newbie here. I have hunters, warriors, lots of berserkers, warlocks and a giant but lack goblins , chariots or any range units. I don't know how will this do.
Check out Mighty Fishbat on Youtube. He has a channel dedicated to making KoW Battle reports. Ogres are one of his favorite armies so you should find some useful tips there.
that still looks fucking horrible
>that still looks fucking horrible
It is pretty bad.
Shit ton better then all of GW's retarded ass dragons.
Here's Mantic's old dragon for reference, just because. Less beefy, more dinosaur.
The 1d4chan tacticas for KoW 2E
What army are those models from?
I never understood how GW found it so hard to make a decent looking dragon. The only redeemable one is the Forgeworld Carmine Dragon, though I guess that the plastic Dark Elf dragon is tolerable.
seriously? nah. i'm not a particularly big fan of GW's dragons, but even the high elf one shits all over that monstrosity. the only one that looks even close to passable is the third picture along.
I like this one a lot
The Cabagge dragon? Is good if you like the new aesthetics, it's a lot better made than the Mantic one for sure, but Bones or Dark Swords make better and cheaper ones for my taste.
>Dark Swords
Too old school for my taste
>Bones
I like their PF red dragon and Narthrax
>Cabbage dragon
Can't unsee
It was my first impression the first time I looked at him. C'mon, I can't be the only one.
Does that shit fly? please tell me those are vestigial wings
I am pretty sure that as the orcs believe that they can fly the cabbage dragons can fly.
The models can work as winged slashers in KoW if you want to play a game that doesn't have bad rules
it glides.
Of course it does, using his fel powers.
It's basically a frog with wings.
It leaps and spreads it''s wings and can sort of glide a fair bit.
Don't be under one when it lands.
>Does that shit fly?
According to sales numbers it does.
I love the game and play it often in Portland, Oregon. Your mileage may vary.
Forces of nature salamanders.
They are part of the Salamanders faction as well, the KoW equivalent of Lizardmen.
I want Geko-toa minis so bad. Heck, more plastic lizards should be a priority for Mantic. The salis aren't bad (too beefy for my tastes). Anyoneh as tried the Abyssals? They look cool.
Ruleswise? I run Abyssals and they are pretty fun. They don't have large cavalry or any artillery like their WHFB equivalent, but they have some really durable infantry and tarpit options.
Modelwise the only Mantic Abyssals that I have bought were the succubi. They are posable and come with some fun options. My only gripe is that they don't have bellybuttons, so they don't look quite as cohesive in that regard.
anyone play this with 6mm miniatures? theres surprisingly little blogging on KoW
>Hiring one or two great painters can't be that expensive
From what I understand, the issue isn't money - it's time.
Great painters have backlogs of work. Most of them won't be available to paint something for months or even over a year for some of the best. As your miniatures are produced and you have deadlines to meet, sometimes you have to settle on the sub-par painter who has his work log wide open.
Just say this in the Flames of War thread.
Wayland Games is doing a promotion where you can get either a FREE Team Yankee rule book, or a FREE Kings of War Gamer Edition rule book on any order over £50.
Might be a good deal for any players looking to get into the game. Buy £50 worth of stuff and get the rule book for nothing.
The rules are fantastic. The balance is excellent.
The models are not great.
This matters not-at-all because you are encouraged to make you units as you see fit - so long as the base is the correct size anything can work. My orcish chariots are Orc slave drivers pushing around 40k carnifexes. it works.
Some of the top players in the country are in the midwest. You can get competitive games all over chicagoland.
There are 18 people working for mantic.
> This poster is an asshole version of St Dunc from an alternate universe.
Source? I thought that they just hired a bunch of new people.
>The models are not great.
Some are better than others.
The whole range has a bit of a slight cartoonish feel, like something out of a '80s Fantasy Adventure cartoon.
And that can be a bit hit or miss at times.
There are some direct homages there. The Naiads are lifted from He-Man, and the undead are known to be takes on The Evil Dead. I personally like it when Mantic is more true scale and realistic, rather than going for a more cartoony aesthetic.
I'm not much of a He-man fan, so that homage slipped past me.
I was more talking about stuff like the Orcs, Dwarves, and Abyssals looking like something out of a Lord of the Rings or Dungeons & Dragons cartoon.
Although the Dwarves have a bit of a modern Warcraft or The Hobbit feel to them as well.
What's wrong with the Men at Arms exactly? They don't all that bad.
I thought it was the Sisterhood that was the really fucked up one.
Read the image posted in It explains everything.
There seems to be a lot of negativity ingot his thread towards Mantic's miniatures.
But I have to ask, are there any minis from them that you guys actually like?
Personally I like most of the Forces of the Abyss range. They nail the classic demonic look without being outright nightmare material.
The Hellhounds, the Abyssal Fiend, and the Succubi stand out for me as being particularly well designed.
Undeads, top tier in my list.
Also Forces of the Abyss are good and plenty of the of the Forces of Nature are also good (only bad paint job); still wainting for someone creative enough to do something cools with the naiads.
Personally I like dwarfs (badger raiders and no horns in their helmets) and gobos.
The biggest problem, as always, is paint job. Naiads are a cool concept but they are painted soo bland that they seem uninteresting, same thing happens with Salamanders and other units.
I like everything about their skeletons except their goofy faces.
here are the mantic skellies with GW heads.
A box of 10 GW skellymans comes with - i believe - 25 heads.
So if you buy a box of each mantic and GW skeletons you can build a whole bunch of minis with nice skulls. Some of the Mantic ones wear helmets so you might get away with using those too.
The undead probably. The models are largely hard plastic and the generally truescale proportions are preferable to heroic scale figures. With their more recent figures like the Abyssals though, they are actually posable which is a nice thing to see.
>But I have to ask, are there any minis from them that you guys actually like?
I like the undead, the gargoyle character and a bunch of Mantics Deadone minis.
They've really improved over time.
Speaking of the gargoyles, any recommendations for alternative models?
Those are pretty much the only minis in the Abyssal range that I don't like the minis for.
>Abyssal Fiend
It's nice, but pricey. I Honestly think the GW Chaos Demon is actually a few dollars cheaper, and much more detailed.
bump
Avatars of War is putting out plastic harpies/gargoyles. Much better than Mantic's restic gargoyles IMO.
Not bad.
I'd also suggest Raging Heroes once they've completed the Kickstarter that has their new Harpies and a whole load of other Fantasy and Sci-fi women.
At least he won't hit his own ass when he hops.
That's why you hire a good painter as a proper employee, not as a freelancer.
Yes, and? Hire a painter and make that 19. Mantic is a Miniatures Manufacturer, they depend their product on looking good or at least decent to sell. Letting a shitty painter ruin your models is ass-backwards.
Man, those look fucking ace.
Is there a scan of the new historic armies book?
It's not out yet. It doesn't even gets its early digital release until the 23rd.
Ah, my bad.
Both these dragons look like shit ...don´t even start with b-but GW. Fuck GW I say. There is dozens of other companies that make great looking fantasy models. There is 0 reason to take these horrible models mantic has. Mantic has some good models...yes. Their only real strong point for most part is their price though.
And we can't like a certain mini because...?
Nothing wrong with liking mantic.
I just get the impression you are doing yourself a disservice if you are only focusing on GW and mantic.
As if you had to choose between shitty models or shitty rules.
Ah, I see your point.
I try to keep a broad horizon, and look for the better parts of shit - my dorf army has its core from the Skull Pass box, but also contains MageKnight repaints, Avatars of War rangers, Grenadier/EM-4 plastics, etc. The Mantic dorfs are pretty nice too, and if I had to start an army of stunties now, I'd prolly go with them, but sadly not many competible minis, while the GW style is really popular - plus I have loads of LotR dorfs too I can put into the army which is always a bonus.
For systems, Iunno...both WHFB and KoW has its merits, and I like to play either one, likewise with Armies of Arcana. And since my fantasy armies are compatible with basically every system, who really gives a shit..
It doesn't really have much interesting lore, which is my favourite part of modelling, as I like to RP with my armies. I do like their tomb kings knock off though
Mantic is not Games Workshop.
They have no problem with alternative models as long as the unit footprint is the right size and it is clear to both you and your opponent what the minis are supposed to represent.
As far as alternative miniatures, do we have a list of suggested manufacturers for other fantasy miniatures?
Obviously we have Mantic and Games Workshop.
We also have Reaper, Avatars of War, and Russian Alternative.
Who else?
Gamezone, Grenadier (sold by Forlorn Hope, EM-4, Mirliton), some of Caesar's 1:72 lines could pass (their goblins as orclings), Momminiaturas, Norba miniatures, Black Chapel, and so on and so forth, there's a metric fuckton of them around.
Thanks, glad you like my vids.
I've done a review of Ogres with the Direct Misfire guys here: youtu.be
The only thing I've changed my mind about is that I now think Red Goblin Biggits are great.
>Is grokamagot good with a flying item?
Grokagamok is a unique character and can't be given an item. Also, he is great as he is. He puts out a very reliable 7-8 damage to most targets with a tiny footprint and good defense, plus Very Inspiring.
>Is are boomer good with gobos doing a wall infront of them (advancing with gobos as shield and just getting in range to burst their range)?
Yes, but Boomers are good whether you use gobos or not as long as you take them in hordes.
>What are the common strategies with ogres?
The simplest, I'm sorry to say, is probably a gunline. Ogre shooting, particularly in hordes, is very effective and the units have considerable punch in combat to boot.
In deployment with Ogres the Ogre player really doesn't want to spread out: you've got a ton of pain in in a small area and you want to concerntrate that on one half of your opponent's army, destroy it, and deal with the other half. Ogres don't have flying or cavalry to play the range game with enemy units on a flank to delay them, but instead they get some amazing delay units: the Red Goblins.. Red goblins are great meatshields that sometimes clear chaff with shooting. Red goblin scouts are very manouvarable chaff.
The Red Goblin Biggit and Blaster almost deserve their own articles.
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