Pathfinder General /pfg/

Aight, reposting this from last thread so folks know I'm awake and on deck, gonna be doing more writing today.

Malefex update: docs.google.com/document/d/1W3LrE8WyIxxYRr8d9dHsWioeUk_-HZaSMqVWRnzc9Fc/edit?usp=sharing

NOTABLE CHANGES:

> Added another malefaction at first level
> Added individual saves to the malefactions
> Remembered that undead and constructs get immunity to Fort with stupidly general wording and then built in an exception because fuck that and fuck everything and fuck the world
> Swapped Maniacal Laughter and Dual Malefactions
> Cleaned up accidentally bad wording on Make Do
> Removed the damage bonus from Bare-knuckle Brawler
> Gated Cheap Shot to 6th level
> Added the Personal Touch and Street Tactics knocks
> Added a sidebar about encounters because I'll need one in the final release anyway
> Moved Anteros to Taboos and renamed it Decree: Anteros
> Buffed Iron, Cold Iron
> Realized I caught the house's flu and now I'm praying for death

Expect more malefactions, possibly more feats, and actual archetypes Soon(tm)

I strongly dislike allowing this set of free feat taxes in a game with Path of War characters. Full initiators and half-caster/manifester initiators, especially those that use Dexterity, will dominate the game until 5th- or 6th-level spells/powers begin to appear.

This set of feat tax adjustments was written *without* Path of War in mind. There is no good reason to use them in conjunction with Path of War characters.

Does that really matter? Strength is still useful, and Dex becomes good.

Because most of us have read Dungeon Meshi.

Who's NJolly? Also does plagueofgripes actually write pathfinder stuff?

What if you don't give finesse and agile maneuvers for free, but just combine them?

Everyone has to relearn the game.

That's the point actually. I'm trapped by paidrones

PlagueOfGripes does art.

Weapon Finesse, Polearm Dancer, and Daisho Expertise are all good enough in a Path of War game. There is no reason to upgrade them further, let alone hand out free Power Attack to martials who are already likely to be initiators.

If you are serious about trying to balance a campaign at 5th-level and above, consider allowing only tier 2 and 3 classes. There is no need to hand out free tax feats past that; this si not D&D 4e.

Out of the spherecasting classes, I would allow the elementalist, eliciter, fey adept, hedgewitch, incanter, shifter, soul weaver, thaumaturge, sphere oracle, sphere shaman, sphere sorcerer, sphere witch, and sphere wizard, but I would also force all spherecasters to be single-classed characters. I would also ban the Climate advanced talent for Weather, place various limits on Conjuration, and strictly rule that any character upgrades to Paizo magic do not apply to spherecasting.

No, because Plague hates children

>5th- or 6th-level spells/powers begin to appear.
At high optimization levels they'll dominate after that as well, when it comes to combat. Optimized initiators are simply better at combat than casters unless the caster is doing things like making armies of simulacrum.

Out of curiousity, what's wrong with the Armorist, Mageknight and Symbiat?

>GM gives a magus cohort weapon finesse and a rapier because he's lazy and doesn't want to think too hard on it
>mfw he decides to skip needing fencing grace entirely, rather than merely going with the old version, and just makes weapon finesse give dex-to-damage in addition to the normal effects
>mfw not sure if I'd be unreasonable in asking about getting similar feat tax reductions for other things, especially since I keep getting teased about being useless in combat
>ESPECIALLY since "the magus is to make up for your lack of bombs" is something I was told by the GM, right after helping him with the cohort

I wish I would stop putting myself into these situations, but maybe it's just my subconsciousness telling me to work on my lack of foresight. Maybe I should play a divination wizard next time?

The armorist and mageknight are both low casters, and thus they suffer from horrendous scaling of many sphere effects. They both have 2 base skill points as well. The armorist's thematic niche is also fulfilled in a much better way by an archetyped soulknife, and a mageknight is better accomplished as a hedgewitch gish.

The symbiat is an abortion of a bard/rogue-type hybrid, and its focus is much too spread-out. It is also a mid-caster with no full caster level sphere, and it does not have the sheer cherry-picking customization of the hedgewitch. The symbiat is good for a one-level dip and nothing more.

The soul weaver is perhaps the worst of the high casters due to having little niche, middling class features, and Charisma as a forced casting modifier, but it is still a little better off than the aforementioned classes.

Low casters are ass.

Yeah, I figured. Usually when someone bars a class, it's because they think its too strong.

Paladin with SoP on the side is actually really nice, since Paladin spells are dicks

Sphere paladins and sphere rangers are both low casters with an additional -2 caster level on top of that. Additionally, Adam Meyers states in the Spheres of Power thread on Giant in the Playground that Magical Knack is not supposed to be allowed for spherecasters.

Sphere paladin and sphere rangers can be made to work by having them pick out spheres and talents that never call for caster level, such as the Fate sphere's Bless and Curse, and that is about it.

Base Symbiat isn't very good, but I wouldn't say its an abortion. It has some very neat archetypes.

Show me where it says -2 CL on top of being low caster, and then also show me a GM who would actually use that rule

Mageknight has really good class features though, good archetype support, and since your already Full BAB, it's already the better choice to choose the more utility spheres.

But yeah, Armorist is trash. It's only good points are the telekinetic archetype, and being able to bind a Staff to bump up your CL

>arcane kitsune
Ear and tail fur are always in delightfully clean, conditioned, soft, untangled, and freshly scented condition. Thank you, Prestidigitation!

>non-arcane kitsune
Ear and tail fur get unkempt, matted, smelly, sweat-drenched, sticky, tangled, and dirty with just a few hours of adventuring.

Why would you ever settle for a non-arcane kitsune?

Report and ignore

What's wrong with the Soul Weaver's features?

The whole -3 for Paladins and Rangers is really annoying.

>Paladin spells are dicks
Nigga please. Paladin's may not get the best spell list, but they get quite a few nice ones. Litanies are nice and they get quite a few good buffs as well.

My group is fairly low-op and I'm trying to get them to up that a bit. These are good points, though I think most of the issues come from the free finesse and power attack; the other stuff seems pretty okay to change up.

What if you just gave them full low caster level and casting at 1st?

It seems I was misremembering. They actually suffer a -3 penalty to their class level for the purpose of calculating their (low) caster level, and for the purpose of spell points per day.

spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-paladin

spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-ranger

spheresofpower.wikidot.com/sphere-paladin

The neat thing about the Mageknight is that a lot of its mystic combats let you spend a spell point to achieve an effect which is basically a sphere power with full CL. Utility spheres are good, too (Fate words, War rallies, etc.)

>strength is still useful
No it isn't at that point unless you are retardedly feat starved.

You can make sphere rangers and paladins in Hero Lab, and they come with the built in option to ignore the -3. That's how common ignoring it is.

Anyone who uses these rules is an idiot. I asked my GM to advance like a Mageknight and he said yeah.

Some rules are meant to be ignored

>Ring of sustenance
But they are! That's one of my go to items, and I usually try to get the DM to let me add the 'no breath' special to it.

I don't disagree with you, but you shouldn't assume they are ignored.

see also: fucking jingasa of the fortunate soldier.

Ya know, why don't we try to get them to collaborate?

Knowing Plague, he'd probably just do a whole lot of kvetching about everything, followed by ranting about how dragons are stupid.
Then drawing lots of art of thicc furries and halflings

>see also: fucking jingasa of the fortunate soldier.
I actually agree with it being taken out. The reason being is it becomes what amounts to a required item in your head slot. In most parties a good portion of them would be wearing one in their head slot and anything that forces certain choices as clearly better is bad design.

Getting rid of it forces variety.

This is a problem how?

The synapse is a sidegrade to the symbiat (thank you, Ssalarn), but you are right about the hekatonkheires and the telekinetic warrior. It would be fine to allow symbiats under the latter two archetypes.

The mageknight is a 2 base skill point class with a low caster's talent progression, so the class struggles with utility. As far as combat is concerned, many of the better mystic combats require the expenditure of spell points, and that is simply insulting when those are what would normally be used to finance sphere talents.

The magus has a similar thematic niche and mechanical chassis. The magus has cantrips and magic detection by default (good luck with that as a mageknight), a spellbook with which to prepare different spells each day, and built-in class features for utility and flexibility.

Likewise, the hedgewitch makes for a much better gish than the mageknight.

>What's wrong with the Soul Weaver's features?

The overall package is just not that impressive compared to a fey adept, another Charisma-based high caster whose class features are actually rock-solid and highly versatile, and which has d8 HD and 4 base skill points.

The solution should be making other headslot items worth using, not getting rid of one of the few that is worth the time it takes to write it down on your character sheet.

First time getting to play PF after a disastrous run of Rappan Athuk. I'm torn between Unchained Rogue and Investigator. Which should I go for?

Party's a lot of casters. including a broken as fuck cleric/wizard who is basically gestalt.

What are ways to build a ranged initiator? I can see there are a few archetypes that focus on range (hawkguard, desperado, gunsmoke mystic), but what about feat/maneuver/stance choice? I'm totally lost on what maneuvers are effective. Are the tempest gale strikes that do combat maneuvers actually good?

There is limited design space for that unless you make a bunch of spell activate head slot items.

Forgot to add, the character is basically an underpaid, competent wizard's assistant who has out-survived other employees of his.

Because I'm not exactly a looker myself, and there's a reason humanoids invented baths.

I'm not sure if I simply failed to find it or if it really doesnt exist, but does maneuver damage die get modified depending on the size of the initiator?

Is spell specialization worth it for a shocking grasp magus? I would think it might be lame after 8th level.

Weapon damage dice is the only thing that gets modified with size.

I'm liking this, what book is it going to be in?

Because my kitsune waifu is a psion/thrallherd and as her mentally dominated thrall I have to spend an hour happy brushing her tail every evening. Further, I am unable to even conceive of rejecting her or choosing to an arcane kitsune so I simply have to smile and content myself with what I have.

I have a Mystic Theurge I'm making- have most of her crunch down, and now I'm kinda split as to her characterization-

mechanically, she's a Psychic Mage [Dreamscarred Press] Wizard and Cleric, with a power from 3.0 called Channel Power, which allows me to cast personal ranged spells on other people.

The issue is, I'm split between whether she should be motherly and caring, sitting down and talking about why things happen, trying her best to make it so nobody dies, or if she should be a cunt of a CEO type of character, who is more focused on the information she can gather, and uses her buffing skills to help the party to her own ends.

Caring and helping the party survive for her own ends!

Is there anyway to gain bonuses/templates permanently through rituals and shit, ala eternal apotheosis, that's not eternal apotheosis?

Why not be like the old Jewish mother who guilt trips people into following along with her suggestions.

"Hey, I've only got arcane, divine and psionic power at my fingertips and an Intelligence that makes Einstein jelaous. But what do I know right? It's not like anybody ever listens to me anyway. So just go ahead and ignore my good advice and walk into that dungeon. Don't worry, don't worry, I'll come with you. I'll slave myself to the bones keeping you healed and buffed, and you won't even have to tell me how right I was when all is said and done, even though everyone will know I was right. Because I am. Seriously, would it hurt you to listen to me once in awhile?"

Is it just me or is the OP getting hella verbose now? Can we just pack the ongoing playtests into a pastebin so the OP isn't so cluttered?

What qualities do you look for in the ultimate Aniki, lads?

What's wrong with a full OP? Nobody ever opens the pastebin, so it wouldn't get people seeing the stuff.

I've seen MUCH longer OPs than that on Veeky Forums
Chill

Should we add the SoP handbook playtests to the header?

Would you rather have a kitsune foxgirl or a kitsune foxboy in your party?

I hate it when Roll20 GMs wait to decide who joins and who doesn't

It's like waiting for your own verdict

Which ever one has the more valuable pelt. Although if there are half-orcs in the party, how they taste might be a factor.

Kitsune foxgirl, because when they act cute or sexy my penis isn't confused.

Just have them wear lipstick so that they can't be cute.

I much prefer when the GM sets a verdict date and determines who gets in then.

Makes the party more balanced, and seeing that light pink "1 unread message" gives me the giggles.

The ultimate aniki? You, mean, like a super aniki?

A Cho Aniki, even?

The ultimate Aniki, the one you don't feel worthy of getting a headpat from.

I'm not a big fan of it being like this either, but it's not really hurting anybody so I let it slide.

>seeing that light pink "1 unread message"

"Sorry, but maybe you can get into my next game."

user, you should view that message as a blessing, now you've got free time that night!

So, is there any way to make an Aegis a spellcaster/manifester?

His customizations allow him to get up to 20 different level 1, 2, or 3 psionic spells. His customizations can get him up to a 11th level Manifester level and his Power Points are decent. He'd be more of a weird magus, spellcasting then heavy hitting melee for back up damage when he ran out of spells.

Anybody have experience with a player perpetually determined to have a bad time? Is there any salvaging the situation, to keep the player?

I know "perpetually determined" makes it sound hopeless already, and I should just cut them loose, but this is a friend and I can't help but feel that part of the problem is I'm not being engaging enough for them. The situation is, essentially, this:

"I don't like rule X."
"Okay, let's change rule X then."
"The fact that we have to change rule X speaks to the weakness of the system."

Repeat this about six times or so. I haven't yet overtly used the obvious retort, "Are you truly incapable of enjoying an activity with friends if the activity is perfectly satisfying?" because I think it's something of a rude thing to say.

Kitsune foxboy (female)

I mean, he's right, though. The fact that we have to pile an ever-growing mountain of 3pp and homebrew and houserules on top of the system just to achieve a base level of functionality drives me INSANE. They're not going to enjoy Pathfinder. You can't help them. Play something else, or stop inviting them along.

>Cute vaguely masculine fox

!OOOOOOOY

Sounds like fun, PoG is that person who does the art for Best Friends sometimes, right? I really need to check them out.

Looking for some Vigilante advice. Recommended talents, archetypes, builds etc?

Vigilante is one of those rare Paizo classes where you can't go wrong (Except for that shitty hulk archetype, avoid at all costs)

I wouldn't go that far to say you can't go wrong.

But, it really depends on what you want.

Harness Power Stone, Superior to use 4th level powers is about the best you can do.

But don't forget that you can take Customizations that allow you to gain access to martial initiations and Akashic Veilweaving.

For double the fun, Ectopic Artisan archetype so you can give it access to all of your Customizations, including Martial Initiations, Veilweaving, etc.

docs.google.com/document/d/18z70ARGsGF92VbV0Ithx_4PpwTQXDqUw0Ph1UvqLfVU/edit

I think that's Jolly's guide. It's pretty much dead on. Most any way you build a Vigilante is going to be decent to great, except for the Brute archetype as mentioned.

I have a similar issue with one player who is prone to bouts of depression that make me wonder if he's actually having fun during the game. In fact, he actually sat out of the last session altogether. He showed up, but after a discussion with another player he got upset and left to sit in another room for a while. Which turned into literally the entire session. After the second or third time for asking him to make a roll and not getting any reply, I just found an excuse for his PC to leave the party for a while.

That's the only time that's ever happened, but it was really irritating to me. I don't go to the effort of prepping every week just so my players can sit out of a session if they're not feeling it.

I was thinking either an Avenger, Zealot or Teisatsu. So either a rogueish or fighter sort, though I'm also partial to the fighter/rogue style of say a Slayer, within the Vigilante chassis if possible.

I always play STR builds, so either way I'll likely be 2handing a greatsword or similar, though Avengers could be cool with unarmed strikes/gauntlets?

Jolly hasn't made his guide yet, but that's still a pretty good guide. Except for the fact that Warlock and Agathiel are both massively overrated REEEE

I've looked through this, but it's a little too open ended. Definitely useful for talent suggestions though.

>Jolly hasn't made his guide yet
Well then Jolly needs to quickly slacking and step it up a notch. How am I supposed to know if something's shit if Jolly doesn't tell me?

I don't see those under the Astral Suit. I've also never heard of the Akashic Veilweaving before.

Ectopic seems broken being able to summon a swarm and another battlefield buddy to help out.

Is there any real use to ectoplasmic creation?

...