D&D 4e General /4eg/

Post animu girls. That usually works like a clock.

Posting a 4e thread usually works regardless.

What did your 3.5 character do? Just refluff brah. Warlocks for example are actually pretty good at doing psychic damage thanks to mindbite scorn (could multiclass psion for battle psion for some extra damage there for example). Take the wild talent theme and you essentially have a psychic striker.

(I'm also looking into how to make a psion be more striker-y, please be patient).

He was a blaster kinesticist Psion that blasted people with energy powers like Energy Ray, Energy Missile, etc. Stuff like Disintegrate and crystal shard.

I'm not sure how receptive the DM will be about re-fluffing sources.

Refluffing is the norm in 4e.

So what's the best Int based Striker around?

Warlock is pretty good and is either CON/INT or CHA/INT if that floats your boat.

There's no INT primary striker. I think both sorc and warlock can use INT as secondary.
Wizard built for striking is your best bet with INT primary striker.

So yeah, Warlock with Wilder theme.

Sorc would arguably work about as well, while being a bit more bursty if built right.

Well Sorcs are charisma and Psions are/were Int based so that wouldn't work. I may just drop it, there doesn't seem to be a lot of wiggle room.

>Well Sorcs are charisma and Psions are/were Int based so that wouldn't work.
Does it matter, really?

Yes because part of the character's "thing" was that he was very intelligent and knowledgeable and not very charismatic. So yeah.

Well, INT is generally a controller stat in 4e.

That's why I'm dropping it. The concept isn't viable in 4e, just like how a strength based unarmed character isn't viable in 4e and 5e.

I think it can be really viable with Wilder+wizard (possibly one of the Mage variants).

What race is the character?

Does anyone here know stable 4e gaming communities?

Improving damage on Dishearten/Mind Thrust psions (the only good type of psion), Virtue of Cunning bards, and actual control-focused wizards follows a simple recipe of magic items: Resplendent Gloves, Headband of Intellect, and one of:
A. Crystal orb.
B. Accurate Staff of Ruin with Siberys Shard of the Mage.
C. Mindwarp Staff of Ruin with Siberys Shard of the Mage.

You are looking for a genasi secondary-striker wizard with an Intelligence/Strength build (dump Charisma) and the Elemental Empowerment feat:
funin.space/compendium/feat/Elemental-Empowerment.html

Such a build's multitarget damage is on par with that of a sorcerer throughout the heroic tier, but it lacks the +2/+4 damage at the paragon and epic tiers that a sorcerer has. Still, a genasi wizard is a serviceable secondary striker even at those levels.

The main issue with such a build is from levels 1-30, your power selection is hamstrung into less-than-stellar powers. For at-will powers alone, you will be missing out on perennial favorites such as Winged Horde and Illusory Ambush (both of which are reasons why Will-targeting wizards are so dominant). By level 9, you will be missing out on the arguably overpowered Summon Succubus.

What level will you be rebuilding this character at, and what free feats are you entitled to?

That would be a Sorcerer-King Pact warlock with Mindbite Scorn and Killing Curse as their first two feats, then taking Twofold Pact at level 11.

Thanks

Human

Addendum: A genasi Elemental Empowerment wizard/swordmage/Malec-Keth Janissary can, at level 16+, add +1d4 thunder damage and thus the thunder keyword on all of their attacks. This makes them eligible for Elemental Empowerment and even the Resounding Thunder feat.

Level 16+ will be a long wait for characters starting at heroic, however.

4e humans aren't all that impressive desu.

Bullshit they aren't

Free feat, +1 to all NADs, free floating stat bonus and some pretty good racial feats

They're amazing at all the most SAD classes, wizard, rogue, brawler fighter, bow ranger, heavy armor ranger, and "good enough" at everything else

I guess.

Also, Adroit explorer.

What level?

The class builds humans are worst at are the ones that make good use of their secondary ability scores:
• Avenger. Dexterity or Intelligence is for AC and riders.
• Whirling Slayer barbarian. Dexterity is for AC and riders.
• Barbarian (berserker). Dexterity is for AC as a defender.
• Virtue of Cunning bard. Intelligence is for AC and riders, and an extra trained skill is less important with Bardic Versatility and Bard of All Trades.
• Druid, druid (protector), and druid (sentinel). Constitution or Dexterity is for AC and riders.
• Strength/Dexterity Arena Training fighter. Dexterity is for AC on a defender.
• Strength/Dexterity fighter (slayer). Dexterity is for damage, and possibly for AC.
• Covenant of Preservation invoker. Intelligence is for AC and riders.
• Strength/Charisma paladins of all kinds. Having equal Strength and Charisma is ideal for using a versatile array of powers.
• Dishearten/Mind Thrust psion. Charisma is crucial for riders on those two powers.
• Strength/Dexterity ranger. Having balanced Strength and Dexterity lends versatility with powers, and also shores up AC.
• Seeker. Strength or Dexterity is for AC and riders.
• Wisdom/Dexterity and Wisdom/Intelligence shaman. Dexterity or Intelligence is for AC on a very fragile class, and also for riders.
• Sorcerers of all kinds. Strength, Constitution, or Dexterity is for damage and AC.
• Vampire. This class uses both Dexterity and Charisma as main attack scores.
• Warden. Constitution or Wisdom is for AC as a defender.
• Warlock, warlock (binder), and Charisma/Dexterity and Charisma/Intelligence warlock (hexblade). Dexterity or Intelligence is for AC, riders, and, for a hexblade, damage.
• Strength/Intelligence warlord. Intelligence is for AC and top-notch riders.

I do value AC even on non-defenders, yes, because Monster Manual 3-math monsters hit hard.

Buncha questions that I would like your opinion on prompted by this thread:

Do you think a Human Warlock with 18 CON and 17 INT at level 1 would be viable?
Any ideas how useful the following would possibly be on such a 'lock, or how to optimize for them?
- Wilder theme
- Psionic multiclass
- Psionic hybrid

Is there a way for an Aegis or a Fighter to use a ranged attack for his mark punish (at range)? I recall a fighter power that lets you punish an enemy at range with a thrown weapon but I couldn't find it.

Either way, do you have any builds/tips in mind for a Psion/Swordmage hybrid that uses the psion powers that force enemies to attack each other to trigger Assault? It sounds like a really fun build, but a quick google didn't return anything interesting.

>Do you think a Human Warlock with 18 CON and 17 INT at level 1 would be viable?
I would recommend a spread more along the lines of Strength 8, Constitution 16+2, Dexterity 12, Intelligence 16, Wisdom 12, Charisma 10.

>Wilder theme
The Wilder, out-of-the-box, is a middling theme for anyone but a critical hit fisher. You are much better off taking up the Noble Adept, which is far and away the best theme in all of 4e from levels 1 to 4, and still on the upper end at levels 5-9. Adept's Insight lets you turn a miss into a hit and trigger your Mindbite Scorn damage, and it can salvage skill rolls out of combat too.

>Psionic multiclass
Most psionic multiclass feats are nothing extraordinary, especially when stacked up against the likes of Battle Awareness or Resourceful Leader.

>Psionic hybrid
There are very few noteworthy uses of psionic hybrid classes. They are certainly not on the level of the hybrid cleric, druid (sentinel), or paladin (cavalier). A hybrid warlock usually pairs with a hybrid assassin (executioner) for Eldritch Strike spam, a hybrid paladin for catch-22 builds, a hybrid swordmage for Aegis of Assault + Eldritch Strike.

The best way to handle your concept, really, would be a reflavored genasi Elemental Empowerment wizard as described in . You could even be a voidsoul genasi for psychic flavor.

>Is there a way for an Aegis or a Fighter to use a ranged attack for his mark punish (at range)? I recall a fighter power that lets you punish an enemy at range with a thrown weapon but I couldn't find it.
Long-distance mark punishment is rare for anyone but a paladin or, under certain interpretations, a paragon-tier warden with Wildblood Speed. It is usually limited to a few specific powers and magic items. There do exist ranged marking builds involving the Sentinel Marshal and Vigilante themes, but they do not try to emphasize actual mark enforcement.

>Psion/Swordmage hybrid that uses the psion powers that force enemies to attack each other to trigger Assault

Since the Player's Handbook 1 had first been released, characters have been unable to take immediate actions on their own turn (PHB1, page 268). The Rules Compendium supports this in page 195.

This also rules out a hybrid paladin, since the hybrid version of Divine Challenge demands an immediate reaction.

I am not aware of any particularly noteworthy hybrid psion builds. The most well-known hybrid swordmage build is the hybrid Aegis of Assault swordmage|warlock, and even then, the build suffers at the low- and mid-heroic tier due to having few ways of mitigating the action economy crisis between Aegis and Curse.

>Since the Player's Handbook 1 had first been released, characters have been unable to take immediate actions on their own turn (PHB1, page 268). The Rules Compendium supports this in page 195.

Dang, missed that. Would still work with dominates, right? Not that that's something to base a build around.

Such mark enforcement would be compatible with dominates. The earliest encounter dominates you will ever find are Charm Beast (druid 7, is not actually limited to beasts) and Touch of Command (warlock 7).

The Heartwarder paragon path also has a dominate as its level 11 encounter attack power.

Do you thing Swordmage paragon multi could be worth it in some situations?

While not having an AP boost sucks, the Arcane Aegis feat feels really, really good.

Alas, I'm not sure what you'd pick up with the other multiclass feats, making it quite the investment.

Only in the rarest of cases is paragon multiclassing actually worthwhile. Arcane Aegis is an abysmal "reward" for taking heavy investments just to paragon multiclass into swordmage; it is nothing more than a 1/encounter Aegis.

The one and only way to justify paragon multiclassing is to abuse the liberal wording of this:
>At 11th level, you can choose to replace one of your at-will powers with an at-will power from your second class.

This can allow you to acquire a Flurry of Blows power, Dual Weapon Attack, or, yes, an Aegis power.

Any Strength/Dexterity-, Constitution/Dexterity-, Dexterity/Wisdom-, or Dexterity/Charisma-based class could make excellent use of a Flurry of Blows.
None of the Essentials melee basic attackers can actually qualify for paragon multiclassing, which is a shame for Dual Weapon Attack.
Censure of Retribution avengers are perhaps the only class build in the whole game that could remotely justify paragon multiclassing into swordmage just to swap out a single at-will power for an Aegis, which will probably be Aegis of Assault to synergize with Overwhelming Strike and Power of Skill.

>it is nothing more than a 1/encounter Aegis.
The aegis doesn't drop. It doesn't have to be renewed like other marks. You can keep punishing the same guy over and over. There are also ways to Aegis multiple enemies, getting it on 2 important ones should be enough for an encounter for a striker.

Paragon multiclassing into swordmage for Arcane Aegis incinerates three feats and your entire paragon path to acquire a more limited version of the hybrid swordmage's Aegis.

If you want to have an Aegis, be a hybrid swordmage. You can even play a hybrid swordmage|warlock if you are starting at level 8+ for an Aegis of Assault + Eldritch Strike build.

Some people suggest a hybrid swordmage|wizard build for the sake of defenses, but I do not see the point of such builds compared to a Staff of Defense wizard with a Staff of Ruin in one hand and a Defensive Staff in the other.

Eh, not all strikers can make use of the Aegis's benefits if you hybrid. In fact, now that I think about it, it's basically just the Warlock or like, maybe the Vampire.

As a paragon multiclass, you could combine it with say, rogue, and get guaranteed off-turn activation with riposte strike.

Explain to me the difference between Arcane Aegis's Aegis and the hybrid swordmage's Aegis. The former demands a much greater investment, while the latter takes being a hybrid swordmage (one of the better hybrids, albeit not on the level of the hybrid cleric or hybrid paladin [cavalier]) and is usable more often.

funin.space/compendium/feat/Arcane-Aegis.html
>Choose a Swordmage Aegis power. You can use that power once per encounter.

funin.space/compendium/class/Hybrid-Swordmage.html
>This class feature functions as the swordmage class feature, except that you can use the power that you choose only once per encounter. However, you regain the use of that power when its target drops to 0 hit points or when its mark is superseded by another mark.

Also, a rogue paragon multiclassing into swordmage is a terrible build due to rogues already having an abundance of good at-will, encounter, daily, and utility powers. Taking feats for *weaker* swordmage powers, squandering your Fortitude and Will with a Dexterity/Intelligence build, and locking yourself out of Brutal Scoundrel (the best of the rogue builds) and Artful Dodger will wholly gut the rogue's potential.

The paragon Swordmage/Rogue can get off-turn damage boosts, while a hybrid wouldn't. That's its advantage. If you'd hybrid you'd lose half your powers (or would have to go DEX/INT, which is bleh), and would have to spend feat on hybrid talent and stuff.

But the main benefit is that I don't know of any other ways you could get an encounter long mark with punishment without going hybrid.

You can't use it as often, but that doesn't matter, because you would most likely not take it on a defender anyway. You'd plop it on whoever seems like the biggest threat this combat and unload on him; later spend a feat to get 2, or all enemies in burst, or pick up SM powers that let you aegis others. The limitation exists, but it is minor, in my opinion.

Paragon multiclassing into swordmage from rogue gives you the following package:

• Forced into a Dexterity/Intelligence build, shattering Fortitude and Reflex and barring you from Brutal Scoundrel (the best of the rogue builds by far) and Artful Dodger.
• Barred off from Aegis of Shielding due to that being Constitution-based, forcing you to take up the horrendous Aegis of Ensnarement or an Aegis of Assault for which you might not actually have advantage.
• Three less feats.
• A power selection downgraded from the rogue's already-superlative assortment of powers.
• No paragon path.

I have no idea why you would want to do this compared to playing a "standard" Brutal Scoundrel rogue with Low Slash at 3, Darting Strike or Startling Offensive at 7, Stunning Strike at 13, and the Daggermaster paragon path.

>'What do you want with D&D?!' Mearls: 'I want it... dead! Nothing personal, a'course. Roleplaying game's just gettin' a bit too modern.' 'What?' Mearls: 'Business an't been the same since they printed 4e. "A clean break from natural language." Hrumph! Well some of us liked that language. How's an honest C-list writer supposed to make a living?' *points to D&D Next* 'This is your answer?!' Mearls releases an early leak of 5e. 'Don't do it!'

>• Forced into a Dexterity/Intelligence build, shattering Fortitude and Reflex and barring you from Brutal Scoundrel (the best of the rogue builds by far) and Artful Dodger.

I don't think this is true. You'll be a bit more MAD because of multiclass requirements, but you can just simply pick up more utility stuff from the SM side. I think. I'll probably do a build tomorrow to see how it works.

Five, sorry for such long delays. I had classes and shit.

How much will I suffer if I take human over Genesai? I REALLY REALLY hate planetouched and the like.

Reflavoring is the order of the day in D&D 4e. It is far easier to reskin in this edition than any other edition, due to how there are very few effects on the DM's side that actually call for anything race- or class-specific.

Elemental Empowerment is a genasi racial feat, so it is completely impossible to take up the Intelligence/Strength-based wizard blaster build described in as anything but a genasi. (The Reincarnate Champion and Soul of the World epic destinies can change this, but those are for level 21+ characters.)

From levels 1 to 30, there are absolutely no swordmage encounter powers that do not call for Constitution or Intelligence.

Also from levels 1 to 30, Binding Aegis (1), Free the Storm Within (15), and Quicksilver Blade (25) are the only swordmage daily attack powers that do not use Constitution or Intelligence.
The first is rather shabby, especially if you lack the Aegis of Ensnarement, which itself is an awful Aegis. The second is terrible for a rogue who wants to stay mobile. The third is actually quite good, but less so on a rogue with hyper-accurate attacks and only 1/turn Sneak Attack, and it comes at only level 25.

As you might expect, this is a very poor state of affairs for a rogue paragon multiclassing into swordmage, in addition to the other titanic downsides raised in .

funin.space/compendium/power/Aegis-of-Lost-Souls.html
You can use this, no? For encounter power I mean. Picked at random, but you'd want to aegis some more anyway.

That is a utility power, not one of the various swordmage encounter and daily attack powers you are required to select when paragon multiclassing as a swordmage.

I addition to what 2hu said, Aegis of Lost Souls has the huge opportunity cost of not taking funin.space/compendium/power/Borrowed-Confidence.html instead.

No, paragon multiclassing requires Acolyte Power as a prerequisite, which is the utility power swap feat. At level 16 a swordmage PMC could use it to take Aegis of Lost Souls.

Ask your DM if you can reflavour your race: you're a genasi purely for mechanical purposes and a human for appearance and roleplaying.

For a race that they tried to design as good general purpose race humans ended up being really good at a few specific builds and not so good elsewhere. If I run 4e again I'll change humans to have +2 to two different stats and no NAD bonus.

Player's Handbook 1, page 209:
>Paragon Multiclassing
>If you have the Novice Power, Acolyte Power, and Adept Power feats for a class

This runs into the issues mentioned in .

Even worse, at level 11, you must choose a level 1-7 swordmage encounter attack power, and at level 20, you have to select a level 1-19 swordmage daily attack power. As we have established, your options are extremely limited.

Paragon multiclassing is worthless for the vast majority of characters, and a rogue PMCing into swordmage is no exception.

>Player's Handbook 1, page 209:
>>Paragon Multiclassing
>>If you have the Novice Power, Acolyte Power, and Adept Power feats for a class

Yes. And as Acolyte Power is a utility swap feat, and since the power can be re-chosen at every level (PHB1, P209), they can use it to take Aegis of Lost Souls at level 16.

If it's unclear what I mean, when you said:

>That is a utility power, not one of the various swordmage encounter and daily attack >powers you are required to select when paragon multiclassing as a swordmage

I took it as you implying that you didn't have to take a swordmage utility to PM, and I was pointing out that that was incorrect.

>Paragon multiclassing is worthless for the vast majority of characters, and a rogue PMCing into swordmage is no exception.

No disagreement from me here. About the only thing I can see it as useful for is taking one of the unlevelled at-will striker features like Dual Weapon Attack or Flurry of Blows, unless they finally closed that.

>they can use it to take Aegis of Lost Souls at level 16
Rogues have plenty of good utility powers, such that Acolyte Power will be a sidegrade at best.

As I have pointed out in , few paragon multiclassing builds can actually make good use of Dual Weapon Attack.

A Flurry of Blows is far better an investment. The following melee class builds have the right ability scores for such a paragon multiclass:
• Dragon Magazine assassin.
• Censure of Pursuit avenger.
• Whirling Slayer barbarian.
• Barbarian (berserker).
• Beast Form Primal Predator druid.
• Arena Training fighter.
• Strength/Dexterity two-weapon ranger.
• Rogue (scoundrel).

You've spent a lot of time talking about when PMC is shit

When is it not shit?

When it's used to grab an at-will power that wasn't intended to be poachable because it's intended as a class feature. On PHB P.209 it says that:

"At 11th level, you can choose to replace one of your at-will powers with an at-will power from one of your class."

This was written before they'd created any at-will powers without a level attached - like Dual Weapon Strike and Flurry of Blows - so there's nothing stopping you from swapping a level 1 at-will of your own for one of those powers. But Dual Weapon Strike and Flurry of Blows are the striker features of Scouts and Monks respectively, so PMC can be used to add another class's striker feature to your own.

PMC has a massive opportunity cost, since it costs 3 feats and you don't get any paragon path features - it's only worth it if what you can grab is a really powerful class-defining benefit. Most ordinary at-wills aren't that good except for Twin Strike, and that's more easily poached by just being a half-elf.

I explain here and here

Anyone running games on roll20 needing a new player? Wanting to get back into the game.

Look up Guild Living Campaign on roll20. They're pretty chill dudes.

>living campaigns

P-Please no.

Oustomia was horrifying.

I know most living campaigns are shit and have terrible rep in general, but this one is actually pretty good. As far as I can see, this is probably one of the best living campaigns to ever exist and competes in quality with normal campaigns instead of living ones.

>voice only

Not all DM's there enforce that, some are more cool with text, some less.
I used 90% text in my sessions so far, only sometimes having to use voice - using it at least a couple times per session is unfortunately demanded there.

Got a build concept (no game planned, just kinda screwing around with builds for the hell of it), and it requires me to be spamming one augmented psionic power per round and also have Channel Divinity without paragon multiclassing - which Divine or Psionic classes are best for minor/reaction attacks to abuse Psychic Corruption of Malbolge bein' refreshed each round?

Had a rogue/wizard liche that was solid. Disabled and did a ton of stabby damage.

Avengers get a few off-turn attacks, as do battleminds

Is battlemind good?

Battlemind is a decent defender, but only if you can get your MBAs keying off of constitution somehow

If you aren't using pre-errata melee training, the only way to do this is to be a half elf, take eldritch strike as your dilettante power, and then take the versatile master feat in paragon

Eugh.

Until they get lightning rush they are middling. They also really need pre-errata weapon training (or half-elf/hybrid shenanigans) to get a respectable MBA. Their mark punish is also very situational, and not that great. One of their paths (persistent harrier) is also loads better than the rest.

However, they get almost striker-tier damage with brutal barrage, so they are pretty good in paragon.

...

Is there a 4E derivative that reduces the amount of fiddliness and analysis paralysis? Even with a seasoned group, a lot of time is spent adding small numbers and trying to decide which action to take when

I haven't seen a good one, although in my group, we tend to pre-perform all the fiddly mathematics so we don't have to deal with that more than necessary

Strike! is the closest to what you describe I think.

Use macros, Luke.
They speed up play about 5-10 times.
>b-but I play offline
In that case, sucks to be you, faggot.

Stop shilling Strike!

Why does Veeky Forums keep shilling Strike!?

Psychic Corruption of Malbolge, while a good condiment to various psionic tiefling builds, is a difficult feat to base an entire build around, unless you have the luxury of a paragon-tier start for attaching fire or psychic damage to all of your attacks. By the paragon tier, you can simply abuse Brutal Barrage as a battlemind, though you will be less effective at this than, say, a Lyrandar Wind-Rider or a Morninglord.

I cannot see a non-Cunning Sneak rogue as having much of a reason to multiclass into or hybrid with a wizard, and the Dexterity/Intelligence Cunning Sneak rogue is difficult to wrangle into a useful build short of hyper-optimized Stealth.

Clerics also have a handful of off-turn encounter attack powers.

The battlemind is simply not worth playing at all until level 7, when it receives Lightning Rush and its playstyle wholly and radically changes. Brutal Barrage at level 13 is another paradigm shift of the battlemind into a terrifyingly optimizable strike.

...

>just like how a strength based unarmed character isn't viable in 4e
Do you even Brawling Fighter?

I would argue that the premier "legitimately unarmed with no weapon in either hand" build of D&D 4e is actually the Tempest Technique fighter/monk/Shock Trooper with the Master of the Fist feat. That can make use of unarmed strikes fairly well, unlike the monk.

A Brawler Style fighter doing the same with Master of the Fist can work too, although I have always felt Brawler Style's powers to be redundant with Combat Challenge and Combat Superiority.

There are multiple ways to build unarmed fighters in 4e

The single-target control-defender brawler fighter build, and the multi target high-damage defender tempest fighter

Just take the master of the fist multiclass feat and away you go.

If you want to be a strength based unarmed striker, hybrid fighter/ranger handles that pretty well

Hybrid fighter|ranger/monk/Shock Trooper is indeed a good choice compared to a pure-classed fighter. You would receive four trained skills and a much better class skill list, you could take Hybrid Talent (Tempest Technique), and you could concentrate your unarmed damage onto a single target rather than spread it out.

...

Hey /4e/, I've been (maybe unironically ) redirected to ask this over here:

What's a good choice of a Sorcerer 13th level encounter spell to replace the 1st level slot one? I really think I'm better off simply keeping Bedeviling Burst

Thunder Breath senpai, multi-target dazing (and slowing if you're a Dragon sorc) is never a bad choice.

Primordial storm or thunder breath

Considering that you had bedeviling burst as your level 1 encounter power, I'm inclined to believe you're either a cosmic or wild sorcerer, if you're cosmic take thunder breath, if you're wild, take primordial storm

What do you guys think of martial practices? Some people found them underwhelming and leaning towards 'you must have X ability to do X minor thing'. Other found them a neat idea and more of a way to do tricky things with little chance of failure than a restriction. Thoughts?

They're a decent idea, except for the feat requirement

The only time I've ever seen them get use is when the DM gave rogues access to them for free

Like rituals, they should have worked on them more. Good idea, meh execution.

If you are a Dragon Magic sorcerer, Thunder Breath is plainly and obviously the best choice. You are no controller, but opening up a battle with an AoE daze and slow can cripple opponents' options.

If you are *not* a Dragon Magic sorcerer, I would still consider Thunder Breath for dazing anyway, but I would also look into Cyclone Pull, a power that fills a niche that most sorcerers (other than Storm Magic sorcerers with the Mark of Storm feat) lack: bringing together spread-out enemies into a tighter area. This allows you to follow up with an action point and an area burst 1, and helps your allies' own AoE attacks as well.

The current buy-in for martial studies is much too much. It costs a feat to use them in the first place, either a feat or a non-negligible amount of gold to purchase knowledge of the martial practices, and then gold and/or healing surges on top. They also max out at level 17; there are no martial practices beyond this.

Most damningly, a large portion of them represent activities a character should already be able to do with raw skill checks. There should be more martial practices that delve into the domain of "impossible by mundane means, yet achievable through mythic extensions of martial prowess," much like Solar Exalted Charms.

If Practiced Study and Practiced Prodigy were rolled into a single feat, there were actually martial studies at level 18+, and martial studies represented activities that would be otherwise impossible with skills alone, then they would be worth looking into.

I would not hand them out for free. The four Player's Handbook 1 martial classes are already hyper-competent in their respective roles, and there is no need to give them extra utility on top.

>The four Player's Handbook 1 martial classes are already hyper-competent in their respective roles, and there is no need to give them extra utility on top.

I kinda disagree, mostly because martial powers are simply not as versatile when used out of combat.

What's your favourite race that's not in PHB1, /4eg/, and why?

What are some recommendations for ways to improve martial practices? I am on the fence of handing out Practiced Study as a bonus feat to some martial classes or combining it with Practiced Prodigy. But more importantly, what are some ideas for martial practices of all levels if you want to do "mythic extensions of martial prowess"?