/awg/ - Alternative Wargames General

Why does this place hate frostgrave so much?

If I had my way this thread would all be naval wankery too.

I was cheating a little bit- the official Spartan Poland army looks a bit rubbish compared to stuff like their French army.

I only thin the second layer of red on py PLC tanks.

Finding it mediocre doesn't mean we hate it. It has its place, but there are better games than it overall. If randomness and wizars are your jam, more power to you.

Everytime Ive tried to discuss it all I get is

>Just play mordheim
>I dont like the snowy settings
>I dont like wizards
>just play songs

We actually don't hate it as far as I've seen, it's had plenty of discussion. But I suspect that most here don't see it as something really amazing because the focus on the wizards and serious lack of detail on everything else is not enough to remain interesting.

Basically, no matter what was claimed, it did not become the second coming of Mordheim, which is dissapointing. And the claim that it was going to be that was mostly false advertising by people who had not played it.

Use the minis, play Song of Blades and Heroes instead.

Check back in a bit, a particular topic such as Naval tends to stick around for a day or two before the discussion moves on. Or just go over there and change the conversation to something you're interested in.

>tfw still no good plastics for gaming Stalker

The Project Z Spec Ops are nice, but fukken expensive and have stiff poses.

Any sign of a scan of Konflikt '47

(you)

In other news, finished the flame tank. What was that quote about 'a house sized mass of fuck you'? This is a house sized mass of highly flammable fuck you.

_(you)

to (me), to (you)

barry was underrated on that show

That bit with the hitman was great though.

Hey guys, a question for you all;

Which are your preferred settings for skirmish wargames? Which are your favorite mechanics or games? Do you think every skirmish game should have a campaign and be based around it?

Competitive play or narrative campagins (Mordheim-like I mean)?

Narrative every time. Favourite mechanic would be card based systems for additional events to inflict upon the game in play be they helpful or hindering. It is a great way to add more to the gameplay than what could be achieved with forces and terrain rules alone.

Some kind of generic high fantasy - like the basic DnD setting, or something like that. Maybe the Old World.

Fucktons of spells, magic items, randomly generated items and lots of different weapon types.

No, but a campaign system is always a nice addition.

I'm still not sure about that game tho...Frostgrave at least has stats 'n shit.

But with that said, I've yet to try SoBaH, along with other skirmish games to choose which would be the best for me.

I can tell you why *I* personally hate frostgrave

Your entire warband is completely reliant on your wizard, so if he dies, you will not recover in the late game. I believe they did this so in the post game, you only really need to focus on one guy getting better (since your apprentice is just a point or two less of your wizard at all times). What sucks about this is, you don't get experience for your lackeys doing kills, you get most of your experience from capturing treasures, casting spells, or killing people with your wizard and their apprentice. So you have to make a choice: be a pussy and stay in the back and pop a spell or two off, or balls out, rush in and possibly fuck over your entire warband.

Your lackeys are literally canon fodder. Personally, after playing Mordheim, this bothers me. I enjoy having my entire team grow.

Remember how I said you get exp for each spell you pop out of the sorry thing you call a wand? Unless you're really good at remembering to put a tick after each time, you'll lose experience. This happened a lot between me and my friends. We'd be so caught up on moving through the game, we ended up asking each other how many times we casted at the end of a match.

Matches take forever for a skirmish game, because they have no routing rules.

Archers murder. Literally, all you need is archers. Barbarians? Naw, git rekt. Get some sticks and string, bruh.

I remembering being pissed about the rules being vague, and some magic being way overpowered and unbalanced, but I haven't touched my copy of it in months, so I can't properly bitch about it.

The best part of Frostgrave is the artwork in the books and the miniatures.

One term you might like for reference and googling is "imagi-nation", it's a grog thing where they make up fictional countries so they can play with toy soldiers in a fictional setting. Typically 18th century, but also ancients & medieval, and the whole modern AK-47 Republic thing is the same style of play. Bad puns are fucking everywhere.

That would normally go in historical, kind of, because mechanically it is.

(also look up Tony Bath's Hyborean campaign, which is the progenitor of a lot of this stuff, and maybe Blackmoor (in its pre-D&D incarnation))

Same, desu. Pre-ordered the book, played one game, two of my thugs got one shot by archers, they also killed my wizard...wasn't too much fun. I'm thinking of selling the book since I did not played it again. Production value is awesome, the illustrations are top-notch, the figures are great, but the rules...nothing to write home about.

>that board
pants status = gone

Osprey games in a nutshell right there. And I am still uncertain as to why that is the case.

I mean they're small passion projects given a shot of production value and publicity, yet so many are the kind of game that could be written over a long weekend, not counting fluff, rather something that clearly serious thought got put into it like gruntz or hammer's slammers or armies of arcana or fucktons of other games that are still compact, single book affairs.

>i wan spirtul sucesr to mordham
>has to feeeeueuerhghgleeel lik merdhum
>no not think add fun and stories

The problem is that 90% of the enjoyment of Mordheim is "You were ten and everyone yelled and then someone rolled a six and something dumb happened and you remembered it" and that is a very difficult thing to replicate. And because people are more interested in replicating that than making a good game, they don't make a good game.

It's sort of nustarwars dilemma. If you make it too similar, people go "You just made the original again." If you make it too different, people go "IT NOT STER WERS"

True, but given better mechanics and the same (or even a bit less to be honest) chances of random shit happening and ruining your most beloved characters, or converting a usless minion into a powerful hero, you got it.

I've got some nice rules, I just need the money to pay for sculpts to go with my game. Or maybe even just not have an attached miniature line... but that's really harder to sell

mega.nz/#!N5EB0bQC!8wLmJCu2mqeUTWHk00zvcHw-IRgUvViz8TLkVzHxv7I

Something for the trove: Iron and Honor. warband scale skirmish game, build your own dudes sort of affair. The creator sort of dropped off the face of the earth a while back, and the game has its flaws but I still enjoy it (some things definitely need house ruled though, like the rarity of certain traits).

The thing I love most about it? The initiative system. Chuck a bunch of chessex mini-d6 into a bag (color coded per player). Pull a dice of your color? It's your go. Want to steal a turn from someone? Spend a resource to make it your turn.

Also opens up the idea of "autonomous" entities for scenario specific encounters. Want to write a scenario with an ancient golem that might activate and do stuff? chuck in x d6 for the golem to use. Weird mage-wars where ancient obelisks fire off lightning blasts? add another y dice.

I am not even a fan of mordheim to be honest. Was always more of a necromunda player.

But also that might well cover frostgrave, but what about all the other games?

>Osprey games in a nutshell right there. And I am still uncertain as to why that is the case.
They're throwing shit at the wall and hoping some of it sticks.

I'm a fan, personally. Fund a bunch of small games and see if one takes off - far better than trying to release one megagame, which means they have to nail it down and make sure it'll sell. They have bumped up the effort on some games (Frostgrave, of course, and Horizon Wars to a lesser extent) but I don't think Romans Vs Magic or Interwar/VBCW Action would have been given as good chance under another model.

Plus, it got us In Her Majesty's Name, a legal and IP-friendly version of In The Emperor's Name. I enjoyed that as a 40K skirmish game, and was happy to pick up a VSF reskin.

I'm pretty sure Rogue Stars will be a disappointment, but I'm OK with that (and probably won't buy the book). There look to be some neat miniatures coming from North Star that I can grab for other games, although they're not doing Frostgrave-style plastics.

Other user.

Checked their Soldiers and Cultists boxes. Need to stop drooling.

It's like from half to 80% of any semi-medieval warband.

Activation sounds a bit like Bolt Action, but other than that I like what you described. Thanks for sharing!

Their Gnolls are fucking fantastic too. Can't wait for the Barbarians and what else they come up with.

Is it weird that I prefer specific settings over really open and generic ones? Setting and models usually sell me on a game.

>Archers murder. Literally, all you need is archers. Barbarians? Naw, git rekt. Get some sticks and string, bruh.
Just like mordheim tho.

Not in the slightest. Most people prefer not having to build their own setting, and many who do are kinda crap at it.

I prefer open and generic, but I definitely feel like I'm in the minority. I love games that don't require specific miniatures and let you go nuts with your imagination.

Thats how I am with scifi games. Its a bit weird, especially since I don't need anything for fantasy, just throw me some elves and swords and I'll forge my own setting.

Working on a new batch of adventurers for Pulp Alley. I'm not the best painter, but I'm fairly happy with how they're turning out.
Most are by Copplestone Castings with some Foundry and Ral Partha in the back.
Feel free to name any of them if you want, I have dozens of characters that need names and backgrounds.

I'm also having way too much fun collecting and collecting random animals. Which comes in handy in Pulp Alley, since you usually end up with a spare slot in your League that you might as well fill up with a dog or pet snake.

I'm really into pulp settings right now, since the genre is pretty much just a melting pot of whatever is cool. So I can use historic soldiers, mummies, dinosaurs, robots and ninjas, and it wouldn't really be that much out of the ordinary. It's a fun excuse for mixing models I like.

Always bring your shotgun when hunting dinosaurs.

Thought I would share an example of Fallen Frontiers minis on GW terrain

And one more

Pretty nice models. Very generic, but I think that's by design.

They're part of a corporate army. There are a few poses available. I also have the assault troopers that wear more armour and carry different weapons. And I need to get the stealth troopers. But as a new game we need to wait for more options to be released.

What scale are they?

The humans are 35mm and the aliens and superhumans are bigger and more like 38mm

>35mm
So they're Spanish?

Yup.

What is it with the Spanish and making models that are too big to be compatible with models from anywhere else in the world? It's weird, and they're pretty much the only ones who dabble in those scales.

Well I play Warmachine and Hordes, Guild Ball and now Fallen Frontiers. I divested of GW stuff when I quit working for them over 10 years back and just have Necromunda gangs and will be embarking on making new Gorkamorka mobs. So compatibility is not something I bothered by save for terrain.

>Reading Dragon Rampant
>tfw no chicken-riding goblin cavalry minis are made.

Why even live?

There's the Gremlin Rooster riders from Malifaux. Its close.

user you are a scholar and a gentleman. Malifaux is 32mm, right? Time to start looking for some gobbos to go with.

But more than Archers murder in that game

Here's to looking at you, Dual Whip Sisters of Sigmar.

>Archers.
>Not BS4 xbow witch hunters with dog shields.
>Not skaven sling lists.
It's like you don't even play mordheim or know what you're talking about.

A fun thing to do when people are being silly is to individually suggest each edit made by coreheim without mentioning coreheim.

>wow that makes guns and crossbows both viable but different
>wow that disconnected houserule makes halberds good enough to use haha I forgot they were in the game because dualclubs4lyfe
>what a creative way of making axes decent mordheim really is the best game because you can ignore its rules and substitute whatever

Coreheim feels soulless and shitty though.

>Coreheim

It's Wyrd Wars now.

>being the subject of the joke and posting anyway
Not related, but I have a great list of Mordheim houserules in my notes, perhaps you would like to hear them one at a time?

Have you tried this? HP, armor HP, and initiative HP on every grunt makes me suspicious.

Was that a joke? I mean the intial comment is factually incorrect so I dunno what you're on.

Plus xbows and pistols were fine anyway.

>Muh rules
And no I really don't give a shit at all.
Everyone who played it house ruled mordheim.

Everyone.
v
e
r
y
o
n
e

It's not exactly an amazing feat. More amazing that people actually picked up coreheim (thanks ribbit and whineseer) in the first place over houseruled empire in flames.

Yeah, 32mm.

>crossbows were fine
>always better than guns for less money even before before applying quickshot

Let me explain the joke.
>"Here's coreheim, what do you think?"
>"not feel like mordhum"

>"Here's my houserules [which are the text of coreheim but I'm not telling you that], what do you think?"
>"AMAZING"

Because the nerd pretends to have real opinions based on things but actually runs on pure fanboyism and assrage.

the best part is that I think coreheim is kinda hit or miss and has several major flaws

Only the very best jokes need to be explained right my man?

I hope you call the one on the right Billy the BARtender

Alternative Armies have goblin knights riding on dodos.

Their armoured goblin range is very, very Labyrinth inspired actually.

the ganesha dwarfs there are the best ive ever seen

They are nice, tho I prefer the Reaper Warlord ones desu. Or the AoW ones, even though assembly is horrible.

what does /awg/ think of In Her Majesty's Name? good as is, mechanics good but best used for other settings, or complete dog shite that shouldn't be touched?

It's an unfinished mess, and the author has no plans on fixing it. Several important rules are left up to the player to make up for themselves, character advancement is an afterthought and the author is kind of an arrogant cunt. Look elsewhere, don't spend your money on an unfinished game.

>It's an unfinished mess, and the author has no plans on fixing it. Several important rules are left up to the player to make up for themselves

I legitimately thought you were talking about Frostgrave for a moment.

At least FG actually has scenarios. The scenarios in IHMN just consist of a description of what they would be about, and then omits the rules for how that would actually work. There are however rules for magic artifacts (that aren't even a thing in the game, so there's stats for them but they never come into play). Absolutely no proof reading or playtesting went into this game. Which is a common problem with Osprey.

>At least FG actually has scenarios
Which are mostly unique and each of them has something going on - how fun is to play the mission with the djinn the tenth time?

Is there any range of fantasy or ancient miniatures in 10mm that actually looks Okay?

I just wanna play games with 10-12 elements in 10mm in a really small space, but none of the minis I'm finding look good enough.

Hell, I'd even try it in 6mm

Is Mercs any good? Every single review is from 1.x, with everyone talking about how 2.0 is either going to make it excellent or make it bomb. But 2.0 is what's for sale, and I can't find reviews.

Wait, are you dissing or praising Frost Grave? You seemed to change you mind in between sentences.

What's good about the scenarios is what's bad about the scenarios.

Copplestone's 10mm fantasy looks fine to me. The range is very clearly based on LotR though, so it doesn't have anything that's not orcs, humans, dwarves, the odd special unit and characters.

Ah, I think I see what you mean: they're so gimmicky that the novelty quickly wears off?

Yup.

Still, I'd rather have that than a game that's literally unplayable without a large amount of homebrewing, just because the author is too full if himself to playtest or fix huge problems.

I hear that while not fixing ALL ambiguity of tye rules, 2.0 is a pretty solid improvement on an already enjoyable game.

Also, each full faction costs $35 (which is witchcraft as far as I am concerned), so maybe get one you like, and if the plastic quality isn't shit, get a second and try to drum up interest in your area.

Better to have an interesting game a couple of times without frustration of having to fix the system. These kind of games rarely retain attention for very long anyway.

>Also, each full faction costs $35
Come on, really?

So Mantic's Star Saga KS starts tomorrow with allegedly a single pledge level of 100$. I'm broke as fuck and Siege of the Citadel has my hobby funds of next month, so I'll drop in for a placeholder, but the renders of the minis look nice.

>Which are your preferred settings for skirmish wargames?
Sci-fi. I think ranged combat necessitates more interesting maneuvering. And you can have all the cool toys like exo-suits and stuff that goes boom.
I really liked stuff like Helldorado and Dark Age for the minis too, but I never really got into the setting. Maybe one day I'll pick some stuff up for those games, just because.
>Which are your favorite mechanics or games?
I liked the idea of building a character as leader for your warband like in Frostgrave. Mainly I'm attracted to simple and elegant solutions in general though.
If a game has dozens of armylists, or special rules and exceptions I'm put off by it. I hate bookkeeping.
>Do you think every skirmish game should have a campaign and be based around it?
No. Nice to have though.
>Competitive play or narrative campagins (Mordheim-like I mean)?
Ideally your rules should be robust enough to stand up to competitive play. Supplemental rules for handling advancement or injuries and the like a good, campaigns have to be 'made' by players mostly though.
The thing is you can have narrative campaigns with a balanced rule set, but you can't play competitively without balanced rules. It's mutually exclusive at all. It's just a measure of quality in general if you could play competitively I think.
That said I never entered a tournament in my life nor have I any interest in doing so in the future.

>That said I never entered a tournament in my life nor have I any interest in doing so in the future.
I've made that mistake too many times, and last time it made me want to burn my dwarven army.

>Your entire warband is completely reliant on your wizard, so if he dies, you will not recover in the late game.
>What sucks about this is, you don't get experience for your lackeys doing kills, you get most of your experience from capturing treasures, casting spells, or killing people with your wizard and their apprentice.
This is a common concern with the XP rules. The supposedly easy fix for that was to get rid of double XP for wizkills and instead give more XP for every successfully cast spell. Getting your people into position via magic should be just as useful as killing stuff.
That the warband revolves around the Wizard is a given though. It's the cornerstone of the game and the setting.
>Your lackeys are literally canon fodder. Personally, after playing Mordheim, this bothers me. I enjoy having my entire team grow.
Opens up some pretty interesting tactics though. The Captain rules might help scratching that particular itch though.
>Matches take forever for a skirmish game, because they have no routing rules.
You could just play a predetermined number of turns or houserule those?
>Archers murder. Literally, all you need is archers. Barbarians? Naw, git rekt. Get some sticks and string, bruh.
Sounds like you didn't have enough scenery.
>I remembering being pissed about the rules being vague, and some magic being way overpowered and unbalanced, but I haven't touched my copy of it in months, so I can't properly bitch about it.
The whole idea of the game - and the book specifically mentions this in the beginning - is to rip shit out and jam stuff in. Take what you like, leave the rest.
It's not a set of tourney rules.
Maybe you should have a look at it again, not to bitch about it, but to see what you like. If you liked the idea behind the game, just cut down some magic options, add routing or game length rules and adjust the rules for gaining XP the way you like.

>It's mutually exclusive at all
derp That should have read as 'not mutually exclusive at all'

>computer sculpted models
Gross.