D&D 4e General /4eg/

I'm currently in a game where they're allowed as is.

They're the 4e version of high elves but more sparkly and explicitly from ultra fairyland

So, elves.

ULTRA SPARKLY ELVES, yes

>tfw they made a dovahkin paragon path
>tfw it requires sorc|barb hybrid

You could do it with half-elf to poach an at-will from sorc, or take multiclass feats for rages.

Although, sorc | barb seems to have some synergy as a hybrid, with armored agility+sorc AC coming from STR.

They're high elves that are mostly mechanically overshadowed by tieflings, because 4e tieflings get all the nice toys.

Are you fucking high, bruh?
Eladrin are better than Tieflings for quite a few classes.

Eladrin get Eladrin Knight.

Your argument is invalid.

They also get some ridiculous support for their teleport (Eladrin Charge anyone?)

Keyword: "mostly"

Eladrin are certainly better at several classes than tieflings, especially classes that require dexterity, but when it comes to cha/int classes, I don't think there's a single cha/int or int/cha class that eladrin are better at than tieflings

cunning bardic taxis?

Actually, warlocks who abuse eladrin charge have been a thing for quite a while.

I think focusing on an element is for disgusting munchkins that just want to deal shit tonnes of damage per turn instead of actually roleplaying

fire

I feel like single-element focus is more valuable for fluff than crunch

Why should a fire wizard get illusion spells? Or an invoker of Pelor get thunder spells? Makes far more sense for them to only get spells of a single damage type

I would think focusing on single elements would be a bad idea for munchkins. Something with resistance shows up and your life is ruined

I actually decided to read up on this, and barbarian multiclass feats are actually kinda amazing.

funin.space/compendium/feat/Berserkers-Fury.html
funin.space/compendium/feat/Rampant-Fury.html

I bet all the avengers are taking these.

...

Was what I thought until I read that they only trigger on barb powers. Huh.

Still, a simply multiclassing sorc could make good use of that PP (funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Dragonfoe-Ragespell.html), with its AoE attacks he can crit fish a lot better.

In an unprecedented twist of fluff-meets-mechanics, focusing on a single element is both flavorful AND powerful in 4e.

beserker's fury is still good especially since it makes no distinction about having to be "weapon" damage rolls, the only problem is that it requires both strength and constitution at 13, which is a stat array most classes would rather avoid

Well, going with Dragon or Cosmic sorc, you just need to get 13 in CON, you'd have the STR covered anyway.

Yes, but you'd rather put that 13 in dexterity or intelligence, intelligence to get some actual use out of your forced arcana training, or dexterity for initiative and a couple of sorcerer feats

Late to the party, but I just discovered the cheese of Nusemnee's atonement + Ancient soul on a dragonborn dragon sorc.

Those seem rather minor to be honest. Better than the bonus HP from CON, but only slightly.

Oh, and also the +1 reflex

That's kind of important, more important than the +2 HP you get from a constitution investment

You won't be able to scale either so 1-2 extra points for skills/initiative are meaningless. better to use your 13s to qualify for feats than for any actual stat usage. You're right on the dex though. Dat dual sorcerer implement feat

Where is 2hu?

Possibly banned for avatar fagging. Kinda stupid.

Shh, mods will ban you for speaking of him

For the Epic NAD feats, how much do the stats of epic monsters expect you to have them?

Can you get away with just taking the Epic NAD for your naturally weakest NAD? Or do you need all 3 to keep up?

Whichever one correlates to your main stat should be up to par on it's own. Depending on what iss/how much you put in your secondary stat, so should that one

Is funin fucking these up? It lists Epic Fortitude as an untyped +4, which would be incredibly crazy if true.

It'd intended. They are untyped.

It's epic, and you'll actually need it

So, for example, an avenger will probably have enough reflex and will, but will still need epic fort, while a rogue may need both epic fort and epic will?

To be honest, while his insights are accurate, I find it exhausting to try and deal with his perception that people will always attempt to maximally optimize, or that people will only have fun with maximal optimization. I mean, I'm all for 'this type of class is pretty crap or performs poorly compared to alternatives', but when the solution is some sort of double-hybrid monster for crazy optimization, my brain just kind of checks out.

4e hybrids are better if you know what to do with them.

Mostly I just hate how much he fellates battle cleric's lore when the class feature is clearly not working as intended when taken as a hybrid talent

You mean as a multiclass feat.

It's working as intended when you hybrid.

No it isn't, it still grants scale armor proficiency without chainmail proficiency

It works fine if your hybrid already has chainmail proficiency, but there is no other way in the game to skip over armor proficiencies

You can go straight from leather to chain with a PHB1 feat.

Oh, hmm, never noticed that, presumably because there is never a good reason to take chainmail proficiency as a leather-wearing class

Still, I believe the treatment armored warlord got implies that battle cleric's lore should be treated the same way. Why should battle cleric's lore give so much? There are only two other armor proficiency hybrid talents that also grant an extra effect, and both of those are for hide proficiency, not to mention that the cleric's own armor proficiency hybrid talent is separate from battle cleric's lore.

It clearly was not designed to be used like that, it was designed to buff clerics (the weakest base leader class) by giving them an alternative to their shitty healer's lore feature, not to put every light armor class in scale armor

Psychic
Human. I feel like they finally have an identity.

bump

I wish touhou posted his views on the dovahkin

>It's shit.
- 2hu on anything in 4e that isn't a radiant mafia party with 4 rangers + 1 warlord

Sure feels that way. He's the only guy on the internet that I'd derisively call an autist.

pls no bully foxgirl

That's just not true though.

I'd quote his posts from the other thread to prove you wrong, but they got deleted.

I'm not. I'm giving an honest assessment of a human sitting at a keyboard.

I think that's a problem with 4e charop in general, because unoptimized characters in 4e mean "you are a few points of damage behind another class" instead of "you lose at the game forever".

Touhou modus operandi:
>I want a Race A Class B
>Are you sure you want a Race A Class B? You could do those things as an X Y and be better at it.
>*details of X Y*
>But I really want AB...
>If you really want to do an A B, you should ...
>*details of A B* but I really recommend you do X Y instead.

I mean, you could cut out that middle part. But it also prompts discussion I enjoy.

I want a Shardmind Bard, go go go!

Sounds easy. Go CHA/INT cunning bard, grab battle song expertise/mark of storm if you are allowed, and shift everyone.

Cunning Bard, loads of will attacks, life singer PP

2hu IS an autist. He talked about it forever ago

This is why it's annoying.

That's just how charopers operate. The practice itself attracts efficiency minded people, even if the efficiency increase is only like 0.846%.

My two favorites are Dwarf Fighter with axe, and Human Warlord with polearm. I love being a) sticky and tough as hell to lock down monsters, and b) ordering my party members to hit monsters or feel better.

>Dwarf Fighter with an axe
Due to 2hu not being here, this role falls to me

Suboptimal as hell

2hu actually did this one.
desuarchive.org/tg/thread/21866122/#21868583

Any way to add the high crit property to a glaive, or otherwise get a reach, high crit heavy blade?

funin.space/index.php?search=high crit&folders[]=feat

If Halberd has reach Deadly Axe could work I think.

I'm not sure it's THAT suboptimal. It seems to be very well supported.

Although Dwarf warden is of course more optimal.

Only via the wicked blade feat, and that only applies to MBAs

So you can't use it to abuse desert moon style

Aw shucks, thanks anyway. I was trying to go polearm gamble + heavy blade opportunity + desert moon style. Was not meant to be I suppose

Str/Con barbarians and wis/cha clerics are also very well supported, doesn't mean they're good.

str/con fighters are awful due to being defenders with terrible NADs, so a dwarf fighter can't really receive a racial bonus to their secondary attribute, with typically means they're starting with a 16/16 stat spread to get a decent secondary attribute score, which means you really don't want to be using a +2 proficiency weapon, which is what all axes are

What does the fighter actually need a secondary stat for (aside from the NAD)? The only thing I can think of is qualifying for feats and some secondary effects of powers, but otherwise just go 18 STR and never look back. Yeah, you lose ~1 point from a NAD and it's slightly trickier to qualify for some stuff, but on the whole, it seems not that big of a deal.

Dwarf can also grab dwarven weapon training, then grab a gouge, and be a cheesy little git with his bullshit spear-axe.

Wis can be fairly important for fighters, and you usually need some secondary to qualify for weapon mastery in epic

Dwarves have to choose between being str/con, or con/wis

If you're making a dwarf fighter, you will always be choosing str/con, it's always more point efficient to put your racial in your primary stat, always

fighters have a bunch of feats that require wisdom or dexterity, and a fair few powers that run off of each, pretty much all of which are far superior to their powers and feats that require constitution

Also gouge fighters are good, but only as strikers, not defenders. Giving up your shield bonus to AC and reflex by using a two handed weapon that isn't a polearm makes you pretty damn fragile

bamp

Mechanically: Githzerai (inherent bonus to initiative, amazing feat support, useful attribute bonuses, what's not to love?), Fluffwise: gnomes (magically-engineered slave race to fomorians that escaped and carved their own niche out of faewild society, again, what's not to love? Also 4e gnomes have cool-looking eyes)

Radiant is my favourite damage type. Because a melee weapon that deals radiant damage is a lightsabre, and implement radiant damage lets you rain the power of the moon and stars upon your foes (unless you're a radiant fist monk, in which case you're just Johnathan Joestar)

Why did 4e flop? In comparison to 5e

It had bad press.
It changed too much.
It was too honest.
It was plagued by executive errors throughout its life cycle.

All of this led to alienating previous fans.

To me, the biggest compliant was 4e felt like a straight jacket compared to 5e. Sure it worked, hell I'll say DnD 4e runs far better combat than 5e, but people liked more choices than picking power arrays.

Oh and gronards thinking everyone becoming wizards.

Because god is dead

You sure you didn't mean 3.5 there?

I could see that being the case but 5e having more choices is ridiculous.

That's a guy. A CUTE!
I mean... A GUY!

Only be perception. I read 5e once, then read what they cut out from the playtest then never touched it again.

What exactly did they cut out from the playtest?

Martial dice, transforming sorcerers... err, I don't think anything else really good was in there DESU.

Monks were also very heavily hit by the chopping block.

Actually, martial dice still very much exist in the fighter Battle Master subclass

It's really chopped and IIRC the rogue also had them and now doesn't.

5e is dumbed down trash.

True, but when given a choice between it and Essentials (Not 4e, just the Essentials part) I'd pick 5e any day.

I just read Essentials for the first time two months ago. I felt ill after reading it.

Martial dice just introduced a lot of dice rolling with no real great results, and spending them for maneuvers was usually a bad move compared to just throwing them onto damage (their default use).

And the transforming sorcerer idea wasn't that useful and cumbersome in actual play.

They're both neat ideas but there are reasons they were removed.

What is the most broken possible character I could make below level 9 that is rules legal?

I want to do this because my GM is a jackass that's forcing us to minmax (and is really just That Guy in general), and I want to make him scream.

Barbarian multiclassed into fighter with Flurry of blows polearm

Forget the build, but it can do like 300 damage in a single turn.

>my GM is a jackass that's forcing us to minmax (and is really just That Guy in general)
Find a new DM. If the rest of your group is cool, take them with you.

Humor me, kind user.

4e is hard to break in heroic tier, a lot of the really powerful stuff comes from paragon path features

What are you playing, folks?