Flames of War General - Iron Maiden Edition

Reading through some books, and it seems that the British tank brigades with Churchills had dedicated OP Churchills to call in artillery support. Would that be better represented as a psudo-AOP (independent team you purchase that can spot for any battery with a staff team), or as an upgrade for the Observer teams in the artillery batteries? And how many points do you think would be fair? I was figuring ~20 points by itself, 10pts as an upgrade (still has the hull MG, but the main gun is replaced with a wooden dummy).

>Things will be streamlined similar to TY, but it will certainly not be a TY copy
Could be cool.

Has anybody ITT gotten to use Iron Maiden yet? How was it?

Against enemy infantry lists you should do pretty well. You are going to have a lot of trouble with tank lists, especially lists with lots of light/medium tanks. I'd think about ditching the confident potato KV-1 for some T-26s.

I doubt they're that aware, or the book dump would be DMC'd.

Do y ou think Artillery will ever get streamlined? Because it's a clunker in my opinion, what with the ranging in factor and the occasional double-width template.

Aside from Battlefront, who else makes plastic US Paratroopers?

Panzerspah guy from last thread. How does this list look? I used ArmyBuilder for it, sorry if the format looks screwy.

>Command 223, 2iC 223

>2x Light Panzerspah (4x 2cm 222, 2x Radio 223)
>2x Light Panzerspah (4x 2cm 222, 2x Radio 223)
3x Heavy Panzerspah (6x 231 8-rad)

>Scutzen Spah Platoon (Command SMG, 4x MG, 1x 3.7cm halftrack, 3x 250/10 halftracks)
>Armored Car Platoon (3x 233 7.5 cm halftracks)
>Anti-tank Platoon (4x 5cm PaK38 guns, Command SMG. Kfz 15 car, 4x kfz trucks)

>Afrika Scutzen Platoon (Command MG, 6x MG, Kubelwagon, 3x kfz 70 truck. 2x 5cm PaK 38 guns, 250/10 halftrack)

List is at 1500 points.

Newfag question. Am I reading it wrong, or is a Parachute Rifle/MG Team made up of two bases of 4 dudes, with every other base having an MG?

rifle/mg is like the bastard child of a rifle and mg team. while there are MGs in the team, the relatively smaller numbers mean there's not as much ROF as a pure MG team. it's however many stands there are in your platoon with 4 lil' dudes on them.

Athough the difference is more or less conjecture; the difference is small enough that you can just call them rifle/mg teams one game and have them be pure rifle teams the next. More or less about being clear to your opponent what they are.

Yeah, that's what they intended.

It's a balancing act between fast game play and accurate game play.

It would otherwise be one rifle team with RoF 1 and one MG team with RoF 3.

So they simplified it to 2 Rifle/MG teams each with RoF 2.

You're still getting the same number of shots either way.

I'm not a mid-war player, but it seems decent.

My one concern is the uneven platoon count, but it seems like you have a decent mix of anti-infantry and anti-tank abilities.

Speaking of which, who makes the better infantry, Battlefront or Plastic Soldier Company?

As far as I know, only Battlefront, and only in the Open Fire starter set.

PSC has had some notable screw-ups with their infantry.

Most notably with how they sculpted German style equipment webbing on their US infantry.

That's a shame, seeing as how the PSC infantry tends to be much cheaper than Battlefront.

>and only in the Open Fire starter set
That's a bit odd, seeing as how they have lists made entirely out of paratroopers.

Sounds pretty awesome. If it plays as quickly as Team Yankee I bet my LGS might actually get some players again.

Tossing the dice and trying to make MW the default era is a good idea, too. LW is such a clusterfuck.

Part of that is also that PSC infantry are supplied without bases.

The intent is to attach the pak platoon to the light spahs, driving forward and planting down to harass the grants and brens on the way. Makes an even platoon number, and keeps the enemy in place as I flank. My partner brings nebs and panzers out the wazoo, so there will be actual hitting power present. Maybe 88s, too?

How much do bases cost, honestly? Unless they're made from the ashes of dead Jews (for that nice period feel) they shouldn't cost too much.

At one point BF announced that they would be making plastic US Paras outside of the Open Fire set, but they never materialized.

All we have are the metal figures or the Open Fire plastics.

I don't know about it becoming the default era, but it's long overdue for some attention.

It hasn't seen any new releases since Version 2, and even those were supposedly just reprints of the V1 stuff.

>LW is such a clusterfuck.

Late War is detailed. Almost ever major campaign, especially on the Western Front, has been given detailed books about the forces involved.

Mid-War needs that kind of detail. Having only North Afrika and Ostfront for Mid-War books is pitiful for such an important and interesting part of the war.

Definitely. I think they wrote themselves into a corner with the really generic/universal lists. There's definitely potential to detail the battles of Kharkov, the counter-attack near Moscow, et cetera.

And LW is definitely brilliantly marketed. You have all these things that were just footnotes in history that BF developed in books/lists. Inexperienced panzer crews get themselves surrounded in the Lorraine - new list. An SS training unit puts up an unexpectedly good fight against veteran Americans - new list. Up through the release of Berlin I almost felt like WWII was something unfolding and not something that's been settled for 7 decades.

Is it cool to post lists ITT?

Go for it. What are you looking for advice on?

I'm new to this whole thing, so I'm looking for general advice alongside list specific advice.

Parachute Rifle Company, 500 points.

++Headquarters++
Company HQ (45)
-Command SMG Team

++Combat Platoons++
Parachute Rifle Platoon (225)
-2 Rifle Squads
-HQ Bazooka Team

Parachute Rifle Platoon (225)
-2 Rifle Squads
-HQ Bazooka Team

Grand total of 495 points. First list ever, so please advise on any retardation.

FoW punishes creativity so you there's certain nigh-mandatory units you want depending on your company type.

For infantry you want 8 total platoons in a full size list. You want some artillery, some heavy weapons to cross-attach to your platoons (since they're small), some AT guns to ambush with, supporting tank platoon, that sort of thing. Be wary of junky support units: AA without gun shields, light field guns in platoons of 2, that sort of thing.

In the case of elite infantry you usually end up having to skimp a bit on support since your platoons are pricy. IE, cheaper units like Hetzers or basic M10's in support.

Small, but capable. Decent against both tanks and infantry. Especially at such a low point value.

Which book are you using to build your list?

Overlord and Market-Garden are both good, but The Battle of the Bulge also has some great options.

For that points level, you're fine. That's the backbone of an American infantry list. The first rule of that is MORE BAZOOKA. Gotta have those zooks. Granted you're at the limit but when you can bring more, bring more bazooka. Artillery is nicely costed with great rules, but imo our tanks are a bit over costed and don't perform as well as German counterparts. Don't depend on at emmplacements to work as well, you'll need to hit their sides.

I'll take all that into account, though I'm not sure if I can put all that in a 500 point list.

>Small, but capable. Decent against both tanks and infantry. Especially at such a low point value
Stop it user, you're making me blush. And I'm using the Battle of the Bulge book, actually.

Pretty good for such a small list. There isn't too much more you can do with US Paratroopers at only 500 points.

>For infantry you want 8 total platoons in a full size list.

Not always possible with Fearless Veteran forces. Especially depending on the points limit. I find 6 platoons is a more reasonable expectation for FV forces.

Oh, the whole list is 500 points. I figured this was just the basis of an army. Is the league/game going to be Infantry Aces, out of curiosity?

If I could, I'd legit give every Rifle Squad a bazooka.

>Is the league/game going to be Infantry Aces, out of curiosity?
I honestly don't know. My area has a fairly casual group, so I'm not building for a league or anything, I just want something to start with.

500 points is a good place to start, but 750 points or 1000 points will give you a better feel for how full-sized (1500 to 1750 points) games will play.

I'm planning on going to 1K ASAP, but I'm starting with 500 because it's cheap, and it'll give me an army to play with while I paint the other 500 points.

Where do my fellows Burgers order their minis from? Wayland Games has good prices and reasonable shipping, but I dunno how long it'd take coming from the UK.

What are your thoughts for 1000?

I'd suggest maybe some MGs or Morars for more anti-infantry capability and some anti-tank guns to add some range to your anti-tank weaponry. Bazookas are good, but they don't have much reach.

I figure I'll grab some Shermans (dunno which variant) first and foremost, then some AT Guns + Arty. Maybe some MG Teams and Air Support? I'll burn that bridge when I get to it I guess.

The War Store, based out of Riverhead, NY is pretty good.

Miniature Market, based out of Saint Louis, MO is also pretty good.

Seconding both of those.

I've used them both and was happy with both of them.

Also, technically ordering from The War Store counts for me as me still supporting a "Local" Game Store. If 60 miles away from my house still counts as "local".

I also have an order on the way from Wayland. The emailed me Thursday saying that my order had shipped. I'll let you know when I get it here in NY.

>I'll let you know when I get it here in NY
Absolutely based.

I order most of my stuff through them, and a lot from ebay as well

So I've finally gotten around to updating this thing to v0.6. Still 100% fanmade bullshit, so don't go trying to use this without your opponent's permission. And feel free to point out when I'm being dumb.

New stuff:
>Churchill OP tanks
Purchased as an independent observer team, can only be gotten if you have a Churchill VI in your force. That limits it to lists with NW Europe Churchills, since they used Stuarts for the role in Italy, while allowing it to be used by infantry/mechanized companies with Churchill support. Much slower than an AOP, and doesn't give the extra re-roll, but doesn't die to AA .50s everywhere.
>Heavies Forward
"Jumbos Lead the Way" for Churchill VIIs, with the additional caveat that you have to actually be leading the way (be the closest tank).

Changes:
>Medium Artillery support increased to 35pts.
It's 30pts as an upgrade to the light howitzers in MG, but I figure it's better to err a bit higher in points, even as an addition to 25pdrs that have better bombardment stats.
>Tip and Run Training is now +5pts per two teams
Because Archers suck, but it's still good enough to require some points expenditure.
>Clarification on wording and rules for Rocket Rails and AVRE attachments
Straightforward
>Grant CDL no longer removes concealment from night
The strobing that dazzles the target is going to make it trickier to see the target, so even with something that bright they'd be concealed.
>Air Interdiction removed
Air support points are a bit off, but this wasn't a good way to solve that.
>Eight Tradesmen no longer applies when gaping or in transports
Just making it simpler and more logical.

You could suggest these changes to the Version 4 suggestion threads on the official forum.

I'd recommend focusing on infantry 'solutions' first - if you're starting out with them, learn to wield them properly before dropping cash on expensive (points wise) tanks. Once you're used to your army, dabble with mechanized if it's your thing. Personally I love my MW armored gents - one big block of men (CT, unfortunately, but numbers trump that) with LMGS and about half a dozen bazookas each. Even has a few Sherman's to keep the enemy back, but those are expensive as hell (to me). Downsides are that it suffers at long range and a low platoon count.

I recently came into possession of a shit ton of little 2 man bases and various figures (american). I want to build an OSS detachment, but is there anything else i could build as an allies player?

I like oss just because of the rules they get in midwar, will take all sudgesstions.

Is that all you have? Can you see what they're armed with?

Bought them cheap from a guy who mas/clearence bought the minis. They appear to be a combo of us (troops/para) and scatteriengs of brit troops. They came with like 40 smaller bases. The ones about galf the size of the four man bases. They are cast metal, some flashing. I need a small base army to use them with, since they wont be able to count as full/regular bases of rifle teams.

The Warstore. They're quick, friendly, reliable, and they match any sale Battlefront does. They also tend to have their own sales and offers.

I've ordered probably $600 worth of FoW from them and never had a problem. Also, their shipping caps at like $7, so its really cheap to have it shipped out to wherever you live.

Hope you like pasta, because your guys are suited for the breakout in Italy. In the Road to Rome book there's a First Special Service Force detachment rated FT. They had combined arms US/Canadian commando unit. It's late war but the nice thing is that there's a paired german/italian book with it (Fortress Italy) that the rest of your group can use, if they do that sort of thing.

I'm a historical gamer, so we pick out the literal battle with similar force comps and see if we changed history, then drink booze and discuss the battle afterwords.

fowlists.blogspot.com/2014/07/road-to-rome-us-first-special-service.html

Oh shit nigga.

Thanks, this was what i was looking for. I didmt want to be trapped in mid and early war.

From Facebook... I'm excited!

>Plastic Tiger

I FUCKING KNEW IT

"OH NO, THEY'D NEVER RELEASE A PLASTIC TIGER, NOBODY NEEDS THAT!"

HA WELL FUCK YOU LOOK WHO'S LAUGHING NOW

Eh. Fuck the Tiger.

But they've got a most adorable little puma. I hope they sell them in 5-packs, I'm already gearing up for 15.

I think the success of Tanks is what made a plastic Tiger feasible.

Tanks is finally back in stock at my LFGS. Might be too late after the initial hype died a horrible death due to unavailability, but I do hope it catches on.

I'm guessing the fresh look at MW is more relevant though - history buffs love the Pz. III, but you need a plastic Tiger for the publicity. Then again, those are LW wheels on that sample. I assume the kit will have both.

It has zimmerit though.

Would be a reason for me to ditch the PSC tiger and get BF tigers.

They sold out of 6 weeks worth of world-wide stock in 2 weeks.

So yeah, it was a success. But the question now is did it survive the unavailability caused by selling out that quickly?

Hype. Absolute HYPE.

They finally got it in at the FLGS. Thought I would be able to wait until the Tuesday I normally come in. They sold out of pretty much everything in 2 days. Who knows when they will get a restock.

I think it will survive. I am hoping to play some games with the guys who did buy the rules until I can get my copy of the game in.

MY DIIIICCKKKK

Screw zimmerit. Let people sculpt it on if they want it. I just want plain tanks I can paint hinterhalt camo onto or do the LLW dunkelgelb over primer thing to.

Do Banzai and Gung-Ho have any DLC?

Not yet. Not that I know of anyway.

Go buy PSC tigers then.

Sculpting on zimmerit at 15mm is for criminals.

That's cool, I just wanted to know how much Battlefront was gonna nickle & dime me.

Speaking of which, any word on a Pacific Theater compilation?

I'd like to offer thanks to Plastic Soldier Company for starting an arms race. Battlefront was getting lazy and was still trying to sell players shitty metal figures with pumpkin heads from 2002 like the British infantry. They were dragged kicking and screaming into the 2010's(they even tried to buy PSC) but now they're actually having to compete for players' dollars and everyone is better off for it.

Zimmerit was discontinued the month after Tiger I production ended. That means all late production Tigers (the ones with steel wheels like in that picture) should have it.

No panzer gray Tigers would have zimmerit. For six months (Feb. to Aug. 1943), Tigers were produced in dunkelgelb before zimmerit became a thing. Most, but not all mid-production Tigers (late cupola but dished, rubber-rimmed wheels) would have had zimmerit.

I'm hoping they'll have a non-zimmerit hull top with early version details. Here's a comprehensive breakdown of when every little change was made (not including color changes).
missing-lynx.com/panzer_facts/pftiger.htm

Plastic US Paras pls.

There only are those two books.

What is there to compile?

Hear hear

They tried to buy PSC?

I've never heard of that before.

>(they even tried to buy PSC)

Source? I know some people *suggested* they should do it, but AFAIK that was just wishful thinking.

Sometimes I feel like BF don't get enough respect for making one of the better set of WWII rules out there (out of thousands) and, mostly, for offering models that cover some very obscure infantry and vehicle options. I'm happy to pay a premium to enable them to do that. They're also more responsive (as in, responsive at all) when they make a historical accuracy mistake in their models.

On the other hand, you're right, they needed a push. Their hand-sculpted resins often look cartoony, and their metal casting is just plain bad. I can't help but recommend The PSC models when the BF equivalent is resin+metal.

>(they even tried to buy PSC)

Yeah, heard from a friend of a friend who works in the industry that BF was mad as hell when PSC released the T-34s and Panzer IVs.

Couple dumb question from a beginner:

1) I'm fascinating at the idea of a fortified company, but what happens if two fortified companies play against each other? I'm assuming not all your matches involve sitting in your trenches and rolling dice? I like the idea of having the other guy come to me and deploying ambush units and so forth.

2) What's the importance behind having even numbers of platoons? Is having, for example, 7 platoons so terribly bad that you'd rather break up a strong platoon to have two weaker platoons to make it 8?

Thankee

There's a "No Man's Land" mission just for two fortified companies facing off against each other. But really, you want to have enough models so that you can run a normal infantry army every once in a while.

The even numbers is for the sake of reserves... but I'll let someone who isn't new explain the details.

Many missions have reserves and forces you to leave half your formations rounded up on the bench. Also company morale, making you roll after the destruction of more than half of your formations.
Having an uneven number screws you over.

>I'm fascinating at the idea of a fortified company, but what happens if two fortified companies play against each other?
Well, first, you find out how to capture that unicorn you just ran into.
More seriously, you play in the trenches, because otherwise one of you is getting fucked out of a chunk of your points and has to go against their normal gameplan while the other gets everything just fine. Luckily for you, very few people play fortified companies, so turtle wars are going to be infrequent.

>What's the importance behind having even numbers of platoons?
Say you have 7 platoons. When deploying units in a mission with reserves, you get to deploy only *3* of those 7, leaving the other 4 off table. When it comes to morale tests, having 4 of those platoons killed forces a company morale test. If you had 6 platoons, you'd still only deploy 3 and still take morale at 4, but now you have individually stronger platoons (presumably). If you went to 8 platoons by splitting one, you now get to place *4* platoons on the field in reserves missions, and need to lose *5* to take a company morale test. Worst case, splitting the platoon does effectively nothing. Average case, it lets you place another important platoon on the board in missions with reserves (most of them), while needing to lose effectively the same number of platoons, assuming they kill the two shorter platoons instead of the larger one they would be otherwise. Best case (small platoons are easily hidden and the single platoon they were before rarely gets targeted or destroyed), you get an extra platoon from reserves and they need to kill another important platoon to start forcing company morale tests.

Note, in tournaments, there's an exception to "always be even in number" for 9 platoons. This is because 9 platoons is the magic point where you get to ignore a dead platoon for determining your victory points, and you want to maximize those (obviously).

Thank you all, very helpful to know.

I gotta say, making lists is pretty fun, there's so many different books and lists and equipment available it boggle the mind.

Any tips for someone looking to get into the game on building a Tankovy Battalion? My friends play late war so thats what I'd be building for. Also I'd like to try and fit in some rocket artillery and a platoon of something heavy as a centerpiece.

In the beginning when you've only bought half the models, you might want to run Hero lists. Hero motostrelk are fine, but Hero tankovy not so much. Normal tankovy is fine. Hen & Chicks hurts, but it means your tanks are about 2/3 normal price. The idea is to keep one company still for good shooting while the other one moves. Leapfrog them. T-34/85s for anti-tank duty, /76s for assaulting things (consider tank riders). The bedspring armor from Berlin lists help. 7-8 seems to be a favored company size.

Make sure to take recon of some sort in addition to the other goodies you want to take.

Alright, thanks. Any particular book that stands out or should I just use the free Tankovy list available for now? As I understand it the late war books I should be looking into are Red Bear and Grey Wolf, right? One of my friends also said maybe a book called Desperate Measures too but I can't seem to see that one.

>tried to buy PSC
Fucking kiwis get oooouuttt!