/awg/ - Alternative Wargames General

Hey /awg/, I'm looking for a ruleset that lets me hunt shoggoths as well as well as brontosaurs is there such a thing?

Don'tcha know Rob Liefeld is making minis now? Soon all games will have pouches as a stat

>I'm confused by these muscles.
good thing you are not the sculptor then.
That's the brachialis muscle and can look pronounced if you got very low bodyfat.

Mate, the only pouch my miniatures need is a posing pouch.

...well, OK, I can't find the hasslefree mini I swear I remember to illustrate that with. But I get paid tomorrow and am very tempted to order some of their incubi.

*posts, has another look, finds it*

So now you all have to suffer the stupidest helmet of all.

...is that a fuckin' Cho Anikified Commander Keen?

That'd be basically any game that lets you stat up your own figures - check Savage Worlds: Showdown, and grab the horror expansion for the Savage Worlds RPG for inspiration.

>That'd be basically any game that lets you stat up your own figures
Gruntz and Lion/Dragon Rampant come to mind as well for games that let you stat your own units.

Some people love to hate the rampant games though. Never played it myself only read the Dragon Rampant rules. Seemed okay to me.

bump

Has anyone assembled the frostgrave soldier box? I am getting a box in the post in a few days and want to get the most out of it. What is a good general list of soldiers I should make from it?

Peeps looking to play Rogue Stars may want to check out Heresy Miniatures as they have a selection of small guns that can be used in conversions.

Anyway, picture dump of some of the Rogue Star miniatures.

A selection of some interesting looking aliens and humans.

There's some robots and dudes.

So I am playing Mordhiem as Norse explorers.

Anyone got some good Viking Barbarian models that fit the Aesthetic.

Oh and a werewolf too?

I'm going for a post-apocalyptic theme for my band, The Dice Bag Lady is releasing a bunch of female post-apoc miniatures. I'll get a couple male miniatures from Reaper Miniatures.

I asked the same question a few times, but never got a good answer.

Basically - this is just my opinion though - you usually want more cheap henchmen than expensive types.
Considering the cost and the actual improvements those soldier have the expensive ones are more of a nice to have than a must have anyway.

Which soldiers specifically you want might depend on your preferences or playstyle. I'd say build two or three of the cheapest thugs and one each of the more expensive ones that seem interesting to you.
Then go from there.

There are 20 in a box and you can only use 10 in a single warband anyway, so you'll have some extras to try stuff out.

Unlike other games the soldiers are entirely expendable too, so making frequent changes in your rooster is probably be a common occurrence.

>Anyone got some good Viking Barbarian models that fit the Aesthetic.
Frostgrave barbarians are gonna be released this month. The only thing the FG boxes don't have are pistols and muskets.

As for a werewolf there are a few good options.
I bought this one recently, though it's not the cheapest.
Reaper have a bunch of Werewoves, one in particular is a pretty good model.
West Wind miniatures have some Weird World War 2 Werewolves, but they would work just as well in a fantasy setting.

Good to know that I am not the only person to ask this question. I have a "soldier sheet" I am working on to maximize the box. I'll share my idea after dinner

>frequent changes in your rooster
Hue

Wait, so is Rogue Stars supposed to be the Sci-Fi version of Frostrgrave? Are there any plastics, and was there a kickstarter? Sad to see them stop supporting Frostgrave, as flawed as it was.

I love the Forgeworld Skinwolves, but those may be too big for your purposes.

>Wait, so is Rogue Stars supposed to be the Sci-Fi version of Frostrgrave?
They answered that on their facebook page. It's not.
>Are there any plastics, and was there a kickstarter?
There wasn't afaik.
>Sad to see them stop supporting Frostgrave, as flawed as it was.
What the hell are you talking about? This month the forgotten pacts expansion and the plastic barbarians along with a bunch of metal characters are being released for it. That will be the third expansion for the game and the second one that was accompanied by a new plastic box set.
They're firing on all cylinders.

Flawed? It a basic tabletop skirmish game with an RPG feel.

It had, and still has a lot of balance issues that ruin the fun.

I am patiently waiting to see what comes after Forgotten Pacts.

>I am patiently waiting to see what comes after Forgotten Pacts.
therenaissancetroll.blogspot.de/2016/09/the-frostgrave-folio.html

The Folio. An Anthology of all the small supplements and the 'first' supplement of 2017

So this is the general list of soldiers I feel will maximize the FG soldier box. So barring any new class the is introduced in forgotten pack, this can be the optimal plan for soldiers.

Each numbered item is a model with weapon type and what it can represent. What do you guys think? It covers all units up to breeding pit

>It had, and still has a lot of balance issues
It's not the kind of game that you can play at a tourney anyway. I agree that the rules for distributing xp during campaign play were not ideal for less combat oriented sorcerers.
That's an easy thing to houserule though as most people have done.
>that ruin the fun.
that's just you though.

So it's still a verifiably flawed game? Glad to hear. It's just that most of the issues that I have with the game don't exist in others. Especially as it is more efficient to just kill the other warband and then take the treasure, rather than focusing on grabbing treasure as the focus on the game is supposed to be.

>So it's still a verifiably flawed game? Glad to hear.
Really? Give me an example of a perfect game. No need to be a smug asshole.
>It's just that most of the issues that I have with the game don't exist in others.
Have you considered that your issues just mean that you don't like it and not that the game is 'verifiably flawed'?
You're pretty upset about something that is an easy fix anyway. It has been discussed at length here, on the lead adventure forums where the authors posts and other places.
Play a predetermined number of turns and you fixed that problem too.

Seriously. It's in it's first edition, have you ever seen a perfect product shipped on the first try?

If there is gonna be a Frostgrave 2nd Edition, I'm sure some of the most common concerns will be addressed, since the author of the game handles the FAQ thread on lead adventure personally.

>So it's still a verifiably flawed game?
I believe you're thinking of Mordheim, a clusterfuck so bad it still hasn't been fixed ages after going out of production. And truly, its flaws meant it was never fun and didn't become popuOH WAIT, YOU'RE A GIANT TALKING SPHINCTER

Fart on, user, fart on.

Just because other games have some issues doesn't mean that it is OK for Frostgrave, especially in its gravity. I like Shifting Loyalties Malifaux though as it does flavorful campaigns with many viable playstyles well, and does simple things to avoid Frostgrave's pitfalls.

Many of the issues I have with it have been brought up before, and despite new supplements being released they haven't really addressed them. I like the game, but don't claim that I was wrong in saying that it is a flawed game.

I'm so sick of this retarded logic that the FG fanboys put about.

Not being a tournament game is no excuse for piss poor game design and no attempt at game balance.

You like the game. That's fine, plenty of people like shitty things but don't try and paint everyone who doesn't like it as some waacfag powergamer who's opinions can just be discarded.

>but don't claim that I was wrong in saying that it is a flawed game.
Dude. The point I was making is that there is no such thing a a perfect game.
Every system has weaknesses.

>No need to be a smug asshole.

Says the smuggest asshole in the thread.

But ever game is flawed and to be honest some of the most flawed games are the most popular. I think just saying something is flawed for the sake of saying it's flawed is rather useless.

Yes, but Frostgrave more so than others

Until the autists showed up that have to compulsively shit on everything they don't like instead of keeping their hot opinions to themselves this was a nice thread.

Seriously. If you don't like a game that's fine. Just move on. It's not the game's fault anyway that your expectations towards your idea of what the game should be weren't met. Just move the fuck on.

i'll bite. i'm newer to frostgrave so the apparent flaws haven't shown up to our game group. so what flaws are in this game?

I mean I can go around 8 posts about the flaws of just how privateer press handle just the models in that game without even touching the rules, so enlighten me

I mentioned that the game wasn't perfect in passing. FG fanboys aren't too unlike 3.5 fanboys in that sense.

so, now that the fighting has died down, does anyone have any input on my proposed list of models to make out the of Frostgrave Soldier box?

Warbands focused on killing others are straight up better than ones that aren't. Even with a lot of terrain x-bows are incredibly powerful, and you are gimping yourself if you don't take a generous amount of those. Going off of that there are few reasons to not just focus on kill spells. This makes the more offensively leaning schools of magic much stronger than the ones that don't. And each type of wizard isn't even optimal at what it is supposed to do. If you want to do summoning you are better off just playing a witch rather than a summoner.

I am sorry if my expectations weren't met, but I thought that the game looked really cool from a distance. The illustrations show people largely fighting in hand to hand combat, wizards of all types not dying horribly, and arcane treasures being sought after, which doesn't match up to what it is in reality. If they just wanted a game where people kill each other then grab treasure, then why even have treasure markers at all?

What the fuck is nickstarter?

They use a kickstarter-esque format on their site where you can pledge to buy some of the upcoming product (Typically at a discount). It is a good deal, though I find that I save more by buying stuff from Ebay later on and not paying shipping.

Nick is the guy who owns North Star Miniatures.
It's private crowdfunding basically. Well strictly speaking Kickstarter is private too, but a third party.

I haven't played a thaurmaturge yet, but the way the schools look and how the aligned classes are setup, you can make a wizard that more of a rpg character that can have a balance of offense and support spells rather then a purely support, which is any fantasy setting is weaker than other types of wizards, so that is really the normal for the setting.

as for the crossbows, if someone is running multiple crossbows and just go full killy, they are playing the wrong game and should go back to sucking in other more combat centric skirmish/war games, as frostgrave is not really meant for that. that is really a player/suedo power gamer issue rather then a game issue.

is that it?

Actually, focusing on evocation in 3.5 is considered unoptimal. The best wizards in 3.5 would be the ones with a lot of buffs and utility powers, not just raw damage, unlike in Frostgrave. So no, that type of wizard is not always weaker.

Sure they might be playing the wrong game, but the game woefully does not actually focus on what it should. Take Malifaux for instance. Focusing on objectives like grabbing treasure actually is the best route, rather than just killing things. It is to the point where crews with very little in the way of armaments like a showgirl one are able to compete with witch hunters and living nightmares. Regardless of what Frostgrave is meant for, it falls short of meeting that goal.

So, if they change the rule to say, you only get the treasure you retrieved if you opponent has no warband members left, the game would be better? Have you played with this rule?

>Regardless of what Frostgrave is meant for, it falls short of meeting that goal.

Beginning of Chapter One:
>Frostgrave is designed to be a competitive game between two or more players, but most importantly it is intended to be fun. These rules attempt to cover all of the situations that are likely to occur during play but, without a doubt, there will be times when the exact rule for a given situation is unclear. In these cases, use your best judgement and try to come to a mutual agreement with your opponent. If you can’t agree, each player should roll a die and go with the interpretation of whichever player rolls highest. You can discuss the situation further after the game and decide how you will
handle the situation next time.
>Finally, think of this book and these rules as a starting point. If you think of ways to make yourgames of Frostgrave more fun and interesting, then do it – it is your game, after all.

You will note that at no point the game presumes to have all the answers, in fact it explicitly states that you should come up with your own solutions as you see fit. It's very much like an RPG in that way. You need a teensy bit of creativity or imagination to get the most out of it.>
>But most importantly, it's supposed to be fun.
Obviously you had more fun with Malifaux. Others may feel different. That's all there really is to say about that.

Seriously. If you don't like that someone doesn't like a game that's fine. Just move on ...

Frostgrave internet defense force should consider practising what they preach.

It would be more honest, but not necessarily a way to make it a better game. In the end Frostgrave is like the more combat oriented wargames that you mentioned.

I never said anything about homebrew. Within the realm of homebrew anything can be ideal. I was referring to the actual printed mechanics. I am just saying that Frostgrave lands far far from it. It simply isn't easy to just start a pick up game with some bloke and hand him a leaflet of house rules that I expect him to play with, and expect him to take it well or smoothly.

>competitive

Due to its inherent imbalance Frostgrave isn't competitive so user is right, it falls short of meeting the very first goal it sets itself.

>it explicitly states that you should come up with your own solutions as you see fit.

Which is lazy as fuck and sloppy game design. "Please buy my unfinished product and fill in the blanks yourself."

Oh you are in of those lazy pretentious gamers who bitches about little shit in games, wonders why they only plays games with the same two people and never plays with completely painted armies.

Please do yourself a favor and fuck right off

>Frostgrave is so busted that the book just tells you to make up your own rules
You can't make this shit up. What happened to actually playtesting things?

If you had ever read a book in your life you'd know that most rulebooks come with a paragraph like that.

>it explicitly states that you should come up with your own solutions as you see fit.
>Which is lazy as fuck and sloppy game design. "Please buy my unfinished product and fill in the blanks yourself."

Most of the time I'd argue against this being a bad thing, given that there is a lot of stuff that players might want to do with a game the original author might not like, think is appropriate or have even considered. I've seen some very un-intuitive re-theming of rules sets in my ramblings around the internet, like trying to make a modern combat game heavily based around suppression fire into something to cover the American war of independence.

But generally the games I'd support dicking around with the system are more 'complete' sets. Or ones that lay out how their systems work and what they're supposed to represent in their abstractions so if you want to tweak it you have suitable ground-work already done.

Can't really say that for Frostgrave though given it's a really simple game built on familiar mechanics that should feel more complete and refined than they do, without modification, given it's a published game and not something just thrown together quickly.

I won't say that I hate FG. The game is merely OK. Average. Uninspired. Lacking in huge gamebreaking flaws. Basic. Frustratingly so. It feels like the kind of game that could actually be the game its supporters make it out to be if it had a lot more work put into it to expand upon and refine the systems whilst keeping it suitably streamlined. As it is, it shall remain a game I played a couple of times with some suitable spare figures and didn't care to keep playing because there were other far more interesting things to play.

There's a difference between "finish my crap" and "add to my finished thing, might be fun"

That is the point I was trying to make. FG I feel definitely is in the former, not latter category, though given the prolific publication of expansion books, I think the creators simply don't realise that. Probably cos they've gotten so much feedback that's basically fellating them for it with no critical thought put into it.

>I think the creators simply don't realise that.
It's one guy. And he's a moderator in the lead adventure Frostgrave forum where he also deals with the FAQ thread. He is very much aware of these issues. And he explained why he didn't publish a quick fix.
>Probably cos they've gotten so much feedback that's basically fellating them for it with no critical thought put into it.
Just check the thread and you can read the feedback yourself.

Don't just talk out of your ass like that, when looking it up just takes a minute to switch tabs.

Anybody have scans of Witchfinder General or Alien Squad Leader?

Anyone played Pike and Shotte and Zombies? Worth buying?

SO HOW ABOUT GAMES THAT ARENT FROSTGRAVE HEY

It's more of a straight pre-order than crowdfunding, with some stretch goal-like bonuses though.

You can also get it through third parties, if there's someone you like or you want to combine an order. IIRC some of them are offering their own additional bonuses.

No, but I got the PDF free in one of Wargame Vault's halloween things a few years back, IIRC.

It seemed... ok.

Anyone else here ever play World of Twilight?

God I wish that was easier to ger here in the States. Hell I feel that way about a lot of stuff for /awg/.

Is that the one that feels like Dark Crystal in the aesthetics and uses two-sided stones instead of dice?

Yeah, that's the one.

Mantic for the wolf.

Just to be clear to everyone. Rogue Stars and Frostgrave are by two different writers. Osprey publishes both but thats the only thing they have in common.

I think there might be a lot of assumptions on account of Necromunda & Mordheim and how half of this board really wants a modern version of both (fuck, I do too).

>As it is, it shall remain a game I played a couple of times with some suitable spare figures and didn't care to keep playing because there were other far more interesting things to play.
Basically this.

Let's talk Warzone!

Any new happenings? Got some assembled and badly painted IG Scions from a friend and the box had a perfect beret-gasmask head to convert them to Imperial Special Forces. Even their armor style is matching, and they won't look too out of place with the old minis.

They're okay, you really need to greenstuff some extra fur on it though.

I was looking for something more hunting focused and got a hold of Tusk, read it yesterday and I think that might work.

Now it's time to get some 15mm adventurers and some shoggoths

They look fine as they are IMHO, just paint the not-furry parts black or whatever your desired fur color is.

I played Heavy Gear yesterday.

Shit was great. My poor grunts got mostly slaughtered by a beam rifle wielding ace but one of them punched an enemy in half, and I won on objectives.

Plus a drawfriend on Veeky Forums drew a lovely picture of my pilots before the game. And then they all got melted/torn apart by bullets/exploded/crushed with what could only be imagined as MD Geist levels of violation.

I should be getting my suicide squad preorder bundle soon. I really feel like I am going to enjoy the game. The suicide squad wouldn't be my first choice but the bundle was a great deal

There are a few pulp hunting games out there.

>And then they all got melted/torn apart
WELCOME TO TERRA NOVA

Heavy gear's tops. I love it and wish there was a group locally.

>hey I have a fuckhuge robot with a chaingun arm time to go heavyarms on these scrubs
>roll averagely
>opponent gets triple sixes to dodge, then braces, lines up his LAC and cripples my Kodiak in one burst with fucking incredible rolls and me failing every piloting roll, then his King Cobra 360 laser noscopes me in the back from halfway across the map

RIP Kodiak pilot, you were the cute childhood friend type of the squad

My stuff from the KS got shipped to my home address rather than my uni address so it'll be a while before I get my hands on them.

So please have mercy, I cannot take much more hype.

I can't contain my own hype, the plastics are incredible.

The moment when I looked at the laser rules and realised their combat range was longer than most weapons' extreme range was a major hype moment.

That and seeing how great melee was when a Hunter punched a Jager in half (then taking a moment to realise thay sick nasty roll was some poor bastard taking a robot arm through the torso)

2.0 rulebooks are shipping out now, so that's a thing, final copy of the PDF rulebook is out soon too, the current one up right now is the release candidate version, so the version that still can have some changes added(formatting, graphics, ToC, etc.).

I'm painting up some more stuff for a bunch of my armies. Like I'm finishing off some Inquisitors and Troopers for my Brotherhood with more Valkyries and some Visionaries after them, Got more zombies and Nasca Razides to finish for my Dark Legion, really keen for the Ilian stuff to start rolling out, but I don't think that's happening until maybe after Christmas. Also on the painting block is more Imperials and Wolfbanes, my Bauhaus and Cybertronic, and finally my AVP stuff, the models have been sitting in a box and I'd like to get them painted for games with my friends.

Did they finally put in an index?

Printed books, of course. The yet to be updated PDF, soon. Graphics girl is almost back from a holiday, should be later this week or into next week. Probably, I just search terms for things I need to check up.

>TFW you've finally got all the Heavy Gear miniatures you've wanted for over a decade now, but you haven't built or painted any miniatures in years and now you're terrified of assembling and ruining them.

Help.

They are really easy to build. Three part body, two arms, two legs, head and gun. Everything fits together nicely and if you feel fancy reposing the arms and legs isn't too hard.

I'm also thinking of ordering the resin arms so I can have some two handed poses.

>exploding across the world
Is this true?

No.

That's a good idea. You could probably hack the plastics up enough and Greenstuff the gaps but it would be a massive pain...

Srill nees to finish building my Northern demo stuff. And then paint my stuff.

Alas my MERCS stuff came first so I have to at least get the stuff I need for those demos done.