/osrg/ OSR General - Lizardmen Edition

>Trove
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>Previous thread:
THREAD QUESTION
>Do you like playable monster races? Where do you draw the line?

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I barely like having demi-humans at all these days. But when I do I see no reason not to have a few monster races that would be reasonable to have walking around. But I prefer human-centric stuff with other races being particularly exotic in thought process and culture, and they would be hard to roleplay for my players in particular who are often dense.

1. Look up detect magic's "Cinematic Fighting". Has some stuff about letting fights escalate when people miss. Missing becomes dangerous in itself.

2. Talk to your players, tell them the rules of your game. Stuff you put there are meant to be (catiously) interacted with.

I love playable monster races. I like to reskin the base classes into new ones, often demi-humans. Like this Kenku for LotFP.

That said, I also prefer a more DCC approach to things and like my games a bit gonzo. As much as I love LotFP's macabre vibe, it's hard for me to personally pull off effectively at the table. The more I play lately, the more I want to go back to DCC.

youtube.com/watch?v=fnrCdsicThk

This is the inspiration for your next setting. What is it like?

The Napoleonic Wars but in a universe where the celestial beings hate us almost as much as demonic beings do but for different reasons.

oh those whacky edgelords

Whacky edge is great! All their modules have at least been edgy to the point of looping back into funny or have been genuinely weird or creepy.

>Whacky edge is great!

it sure is

>not Weilheim Wonkerkin's Confectionery Crematorium

Berserk

The art for this one is looking crazy awesome.

>I like to reskin the base classes into new ones, often demi-humans

I like to play a game where I can reskin this as a Goblin Ratkeeper.

I made those!

Usually not, at least not as default starting options. Maybe if a player character dies and they have had a certain degree of interaction with members of a species, but usually I would prefer to keep inhuman creatures as alien as possible.

Thoughts/Opinions on DCC? Seems divisive due to it's basis being 3.5, funky dice and having so many tables.

I love it. My group has never had more fun at the table than with spellcasting gone wrong, halfling dyers parasailing into an abyss or Mighty Deeds fucking shit up in combat.

It DOES kinda suck that the Crawlers Companion app is almost mandatory in order to speed up gameplay, but the fact that it still works parallel with physical dice rolls makes that a-ok in my book.

I wouldn't call the app necessary. I've run and played numerous games and only just remembered it because you mentioned it. Everyone in my group knows what they need to know, we have multiple books, all that.

Fully agree with it being fun as hell though.

It just started up, actually. Speaking of which, just a reminder that the next session of the /osrg/ open table will be this Sunday, from 2:30pm PDT/5:30pm EDT/9:30 UTC. Contact Stagehand on the Discord or Roll20 for details.

I downloaded it from last thread. Make more monster classes, dammit.

I'm waiting for the new printing. I'm a fan of randomization and the tone, I think this system will be a lot of fun.

I'm a whore for simplicity and streamlining so DCC isn't my cuppa tea. I can understand the allure of options and tables but I wanna spend my time at the table playing the game, not reading about it.

Liked it a lot when I read it. Switched to it in my campaign from LotFP. It comes with a new slew of problems that I didn't expect, and I can't say yet whether it's stuff me and my group can get past or if I have to give up on it.
I think mighty deeds are great and my players don't like vancian magic so that's good too. Fumble and critical tables I'm already finding to be uninteresting though. Mercurial + magic is a lot of stuff to think about even with the app. Getting experience doesn't seem to be as fulfilling. Also, just the general "flimsiness" of some rules (because they assume you already know how to do things and don't bother with certain things) irk me a bit.
But on the whole I think I like it. Will probably merge the parts I like with LotFP at some point.

>1. How do I make combat more interesting? Especially the ones that just tend to drag on, miss after miss? Our LotFP hexcrawl last night had only 2 encounters and both seemed to take a fucking eternity.
Allow and encourage players to make shit up instead of just "I hit him". Oh, you want to dive over the table, stab the goblin on the other side and then crouch down for cover? Sure, roll a regular attack roll and if you hit you also get cover this round. Swinging in a chandelier? Sure, -1 to hit but +3 damage if you do. Et cetera.

Also keep in mind that even if the players whiff every blow, a round takes like one-tenth of the time to play out in B/X as it does in 3.X or god forbid 4E (I like 4E, but it's slooooowwww).

>2. How do I get my players to stop being huge pussies? It's one thing to be cautious and another entirely to avoid interaction with everything suspicious or interesting they come across.
Dial down the lethality of all the stuff.
Normally the advice from /osrg/ is to crank it up, but that's for when you're dealing with HERPTYDERP bumblefucks who try to eat everything. If they're scared of everything instead, that means you have to make it a bit safer. In most cases there's a way to keep the interesting part of an item or event while making it less deadly.

You shouldn't remove ALL the save-or-dies, of course. Once in a while someone should still get instakilled.

>Do you like playable monster races? Where do you draw the line?
yes, honestly I really don't get the appeal of settings limited to just the standard set of Demi-Humans(those kinds of settings tend to be bland), or god forbid Human Only settings, those ones are almost always so boring and low-fantasy in nature that there's often no real point in them even being fantasy settings in the first place instead of Historical

as for where I draw the line, pretty much anything as long as it's under ~20 feet in height, is capable of communication(and thus is sentient), and isn't something like a pure-bred Angel or Demon(or other Outsider), being of humanoid form and/or having hands is optimal but not a hard requirement

I like the way you guys think

>Thoughts/Opinions on DCC?
My main problem with it is it's large as all fuckoff and still isn't a complete game. As points out, there's a ton of stuff they just cheap out on giving rules for because they figure nobody would ever buy their game who hadn't already played either B/X or 3E. And sure, okay, probably the majority have. But every one of those missing rules isn't just a hole in the book, it's a missed opportunity. And yet the book's the size of a presentation Bible. What the fuck?

>Contact Stagehand on the Discord or Roll20 for details.

How the heck do you search for a specific user on Roll20?

Examples? Despite the arbitrary nature of skills (d20 if knowledgeable, d10 if not) most everything needed seems covered thoroughly.

Hey TroveGuy and CUTT-guy, I have a small supplement for Labyrinth Lord that I don't see in the trove. Pic related, it's all about cartoon animals exploring dungeons and dying horribly, with a smattering of puns thrown in for good measure.
uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1477527214

I disagree that human-only setting have to be inherently stodgy and no fun allowed; it's just that the majority of people who want human-only games play it that way.

I never knew I wanted this.

Isn't Tekumel human-only, and weird as fuck?

well I didn't mean ALL human only settings, just most I've seen for OSR(heck a lot of them seem designed to make it hard to justify playing as anything besides Fighters and maybe Thieves)

really wish we had more OSR settings that go full Mystara/Known World/Hollow World levels of Gonzo in terms of races

>Running a LotFP campaign where the players are settling a territory and building a trading post/fortress.
>Put an ancient barbarian burial ground about a mile away, expecting them to go murderhobo grave robbing.
>Underestimated them, they investigate it, but leave all the treasure alone, saying it wouldn't be right to mess with it.
>They clear the whole tomb of evils and have druids come bless it each day, to remove the taint.
>They actually set up a road to it, and hire guards to watch over it, now they're talking about unearthing it and making a monument out of it to honor the noble savages that once claimed this place as their home.

I'm actually caught off guard by this, and think that it's interesting and creative (considering how most if the time, they literally just steal everything and piss on every upturned stone.) How do you think I should work with this?

I want to reward them in such a way that suggests I'd like them to do things like this in the future, as opposed to the standard "Steal and kill everything, and never look back" method.

>I love it. My group has never had more fun at the table...
theres your awnser - as long as you and your friends are enjoying it what does it matter what we say?

Involve the descendants of the barbarians in some way- they just had a random band of what would normally be looters not just cleanse the resting place of their ancestors, but also take no 'reward' from the possessions of their relatives while doing it?

What ever barbarian tribe was using that mound to bury their dead will be super grateful to the players, if not indebted- perhaps have some of the barbarians help this fortress as labor or mercenaries at a good discount for a while- it rewards the players and gives you a way to deliver future plot hooks through the troubles of the barbarian tribes.

God, why didn't I think of that? I guess I got caught up in them being dead for so long that it didn't completely occur to me that the descendants of the tribe would still be around.

I think I'll do it like this,
>Some barbarians have been seen on the outskirts of your claimed territory.
>Workers have said they look rough and fierce.
>Really play it up like these big barbarians are gonna come ass fuck them in their sleep
>Start rumors that they are probably pissed that someone entered their ancestor's tomb
>Then, suddenly have the barbarians show up and have them explain that they are indebted to the party
>Have them feast with the players, then help build their fortress or work as guards.
>The barbarians give them servantgirls and prime breeding wives before leaving, as a thank you, and a means permanently unifying their trust.

>Do you like playable monster races? Where do you draw the line?

i'll take whatever, just fuck me up

If you could take three elements of DCC and plug them into a simpler system (like LotFP) which three would they be and why? Bonus points for "how?"

This is him: app.roll20.net/users/1532559/stagehand

Mighty Deeds
Spell Duels
Dunno about anything else.

Dice based spellcasting is the biggest thing for me. I would probably not include patron/diety stuff to keep it simpler. May/may not keep spellburn or turn it into spellburn lite. I honestly like running spellburn lite in these games because it makes being a level 1 magic user suck less.

I like deeds, but not sure they fit well in every game.

I'd probably take some of the silly racial stuff like smelling gold or passing luck around. I like kinda zany things like that.

1. Mighty Deeds (already converted this for my LotFP hack 'Ruinations'). Because it makes being a Warrior/Fighter cooler.
2. Spellcasting (I'd just use DCCs rules) because once-a-day casting is lame and I like spell corruption.
3. Luck Burning (I kinda like the Luck attribute) because I like having a reservoir to draw from when shit is getting real.

Not really, there are some half-dozen playable alien species, among them lizardmen, insectoids, molemen, bat-men, and a couple of more unusual species.

The setting is heavily anthropocentric though, with most aliens regarded as second-class citizens across the five empires.

What's the dealio with the troves?

Base64

Good in theory but the shitty dice and constant fucking referencing of the giant book kills it for me.

Im already doing this.

Ive stolen mighty deeds, Corruption, crit and fumble tables, luck stat, and probaly some other shit ive forgotten.

All of it very pared down, except mighty deeds which remains largely unchanged. Tables are squished down into single d12 tables. Luck gives luck points to be used on re-rolls n' shit.

I've been using these crit/fumble tables in LotFP, minus the text page talking about percentile adjustments. Just straight d100 rolls.

One of the reasons I like underground adventures is that you can have the "normal" upper world above, and then the Underworld, where all sorts of crazy shit goes on. I was even thinking about running Dyson's Delve as the beginning of a "Journey to the Center of the Earth" kind of underground hexcrawl.

>Allow and encourage players to make shit up instead of just "I hit him".
I think a good method is to always follow up a "I hit him" with a "How?". Force some flavor and descriptions before allowing the roll.

You could always spin it later with some of the descendants breaking of from the others and claim that exorcising the burial ground was sacrilege. Now you get both yout initial surprise as well as an antagonist. 6

One of these days I'd love to make an OSR game called "The Filthy Lucre", just because I love the shit out of that title, only problem I'd have making this is that I'd fear I'd be extremely derivative of literally every other OSR game.

Boner achieved.

You could always make a house rule compilation and call it that.

>I'd fear I'd be extremely derivative of literally every other OSR game.
Isn't that what all retroclones do?

I did what this guy said.
Even though I've houseruled LotFP so as to be almost an entirely new ruleset, I'd feel dishonest about calling it my own game. Especially since a lot of the houserules are adaptations of shit from other OSR products/blogs.
I have put a lot of work in to making it cohesive and I'm sure a lot of people would argue I could put it out as my own game but...I dunno. I guess I just have chronic imposter syndrome.

I've got a question about Caverns of Thracia.

The map scale is "1 inch = 40 ft", but i have a problem: I only have the pdf, so I'm not sure how to measure the inch on the map. What format was this printed in?
At first I thought that each square on the paper was one inch, but then I did the math (I'm not really used at thinking in terms of inches and feet so I have to convert everything mentally) and realized that would be fucked up. I doubt they printed this so huge.

Anyone can give me a good clue as to how big are these squares on the map? Thinking of going with "each square is 3m or 10ft", sounds right?

Probably printed on 8.5in x 11in so the squares would be 10ft squares.

Just cite your sources/inspirations. It's not like anyone can reasonably bitch you out for doing exactly what they're doing.

How much i hate crit/fumble tables. I fucking love randomization but these are complete horseshit.
Every 20 hits in a fight an experienced fighter does something disastrous like critical hit himself or fall over? No way!
Likewise a 0-level mook having a 5% chance per hit to critically hit and do something disastrous to a legendary sword master?
If a professional mma/whatever-fighter fights a normal person, there is an absolutely predictable outcome.

1. Mighty deeds. No idea how to though since the mighty deed die evolves so fast between levels. Maybe by making it a skill?

2. Spellcasting. I'd simplify it a bit, maybe only have three magical effects in total and still keep corruption and misfire. I'm adding cleric spells here too.

3. Hm. It's a tossup between level 0 and adding luck. I think luck is a bit too hard to add to retroclones other than DCC, so I'll go with having a level 0.

Also I'm probably doing this too.

If you're doing this guys post some pdfs of your house rules. Mighty deeds sound cool but i'm not sure how to make this work.

Another topic: Do you use reaction rules from B/X in LotFP? The latter doesn't even have them for monsters and charisma has no effect. I like the rules from Moldvay Basic a lot more.

I started working on the math to mighty deeds just now actually, so I might deliver something. Don't count on it too much though, I'm both bad at designing and bad at math.

Oh, i just realized that Charisma modifier in Moldvay is just used in secondary talking to monsters. The initial reaction is an unmodified 2d6. ACKS uses Charisma for initial reaction from the lead PC.

Then don't use them.

Yeah, it's just a convoluted way of saying each square's 10'.

"Feats" (Mighty Deeds) for LotFP:
To attempt a combat feat, the player announces their intent and rolls to attack (d20 + applicable modifiers) along with the appropriate Feat die.

- If the attack is successful and the Feat Die rolls a 5 or higher, the attempt is a success.
- A successful d20 attack with a Feat Die roll under 5 is a failure in plan, though weapon damage is rendered as usual (if applicable.)
- A failed attack, regardless of the Feat Die’s roll, typically results in a problematic setback or predicament for the PC (Referee’s discretion.)

Feat Die
Level:
¤ 1-3: d6
¤ 4-6: d8
¤ 7-9: d10
¤ 10+: d12

or for a faster progression:

¤ 1-2: d6
¤ 3-4: d8
¤ 5-6: d10
¤ 7-9: d12
¤ 10+: d20

They're used to add spice and give you erratic, memorable moments in gaming.

What are you gonna talk about later, that time your lv. 6 Warrior obviously and plainly bashed in the skull of the enemy or that time your lv. 1 Halfling goat herder managed with dumb luck to inexplicably slide his dagger between some death-lord's visor slit and shove the blade into his frontal lobe?

What is your opinions on level caps?

Even though I have never had a game go above level 8, I like the idea of level caps. Currently I'm making a house rule document (my own little OSR compilation as per above) with LotFP as the base game. I'm thinking about instituting a level 9 hard cap for all player characters. That way there is some sort of "physical limit" to the character growth, which gives the game-world a certain sense of mortal scale imo. It basically says; you have grown as much as is possible for a mortal adventurer, congratulations!

It also has interesting mechanical consequences. It is the level that the Fighter stops getting an increased attack bonus, the last level of variable HP gain, specialists have a nice amount of skill points (instead of eventually maxing out all skills and not really being a "specialist" anymore) and it would mean that spell level 5 is the "max" spell level for a single player character (although I like the idea of retaining awesome high level spells in the game through complex, multi-caster rituals which require a lot of sacrifice).

I chose level 9 because it is the traditional "name level".

Like it!
I'd use the faster progression and would say the setback is having surprised AC for one round.

DCC is a game of chaos and it kinda fits here. It's just not something I would use as standard. And I rant about it because as a young DM I thought it would be great to use and quickly realized it breaks immersion.

I do see myself playing Dungeon Crawl Chaos with a gonzo module though. Fun Beer & Pretzel (& Heavy Metal) game.

I'm doing mighty deeds in 2 parts. the first is general for anyone to use:

Gambit: Perform a stunt or called shot. Make two Attack rolls; if both hit then it succeeds. 2 failures causes a Fumble.

The second part powers it up for Fighters:

Warrior's Gambit - Replaces the Gambit combat option.
Instead, the Fighter performs a stunt, maneuver or called shot by rolling an additional 1d3 Gambit Die with their Attack Roll.
If the Attack hits and the Gambit Die comes up as 3 then the stunt is performed successfully, otherwise the roll is added to damage. A successful Gambit does not increase damage, but has some other kind of combat effect.

and then some advice about coming up with gambits/deeds.

additionally, at level-up a fighter may pick the following bonus if they so choose:

King's Gambit - Increase the Warrior's Gambit Die by one type up the chain. Success on 3 or higher.

(I use reaction, but I don't recall what b/x did. my houserule might be the same)

DCC is great for jaded veterans who want to spice up their not-having-sex-life.
At least until the novelty wears off. Good for one-offs. Tedious over the course of a campaign.

Hmm, the gambit rule is simple and nice. I don't even think there needs to be a fighter's gambit in LotFP, since he has such a huge advantage hitting stuff as he levels up.

Based on experience, I'd disagree. DCC made for a memorable and great sword & sorcery campaign.

String a few modules together on a map and add a few towns and cities for flavor and you've got a hell of a ride.

Not the one quoted but I think many here find the OSR refreshing because we're DMs who realized a rules system doesn't need to be convoluted. I appreciate DCC for it's unique style but DMing this thing for a longer time is like going back to 3.x/PF.

in LoFP when a monster says it has 5HD. how do i determine the number of hitpoints? i dont see where a range is specified. what is the size of the HD that monsters have?. did i miss the part were they clarified that?

I've never found DCC convoluted. Simple 'skill' system (d20 or d10 over DC). Dice chain for advantage/disadvantage.

Spells are convoluted, yes, but are more rewarding and exciting in play than traditional Vancian magic.

I dunno. Just opinion. It's got some crunch, but it doesn't even come close to 3.e/PF.

If it's based on Basic D&D then each Hit Die is a d6.

I would roll 5d8.

so is not specified? i never played OSRs so i cant reference unless i go chasing for old rules.

d6 seems logical but d8 seems to "include" the monsters "constitution".

I'd roll d8 cause LotFP emphasizes less traditional weak & abundant monsters and more singular daunting ones.

It's 1d8 per hit die; It's specified in the Grindhouse edition referee book.

Its listed in the Referee book, but its supposed to be 5D8.

See, been debating how to do this myself, given all the options that later editions put on the table

Half-elves, goblins, orcs, gnomes, hell, even gnoll and catfolk. I've been debating whether to just say "Oh, you're X, but your play is defined by Y class levels"

thanks

It's still "problematic". The AtticBat guy made the point that using saving throws make sense because it's too easy to fuck high hd creatures over otherwise. That's swell but saving throws in LotFP are a bit strange for this.
A M-U has a better chance resisting a bull rush than a Fighter if we take save vs. paralyze. Doesn't make any sense.

...Which version of Basic uses d6 hit dice for monsters? I'm pretty sure that the only major D&D version out there that does that is pre-Greyhawk OD&D. Although Holmes is a huge blind spot for me.

The answer is that you'll talk about when your ninth-level Lord that you've spent a year playing got one-shot by a kobold.

The biggest and most consistent problem with crits (and, to a lesser degree, non-at will casting systems) is that each PC is going to get hit by a magnitude more of them than each individual monster. If a monster dies ten seconds after it shows up, big deal. Chances are that if it got killed by a crit it was going to die soon anyway, and no-one would be surprised by that.
But each individual PC is expected to take a lot of hits over their lifetime, a lot more than even the nominal big bad dragons and death-lords.

It's not a question of "if" your PC is going to get critted to death, it's a question of "when".

Better to limit the system to specific characters, IMHO, like with Vorpal swords in O/AD&D - in that case you won't get a high-level character instagibbed by a housecat (does three attacks mean three crit opportunities?), but if you give an NPC a Vorpal sword or similar ability you know that they've got a less deadly version of the Basilisks' petrifying touch or giant spider's venom and can design around that.


(The problem with non-at will casting systems, meanwhile, is that while players need to worry about whether or not they should save a spell for later NPCs have no such issues. Even from an in-universe perspective, chances are that the players are the only combat that the NPC caster is likely to see for the day - while the Temple of Chaos is a hostile environment to the PCs, it's a daily routine for the Evil High Priest. He has no reason not to blow his load.)

>Which version of Basic uses d6 hit dice for monsters?
Holmes. I had to check what Moldvay has and was surprised that it's actually d8 there. Then again I only care about OD&D so I'm not too well educated in later editions.

Tell me about your homebrew settings, /osrg/!

I like race to have at least a small impact on mechanics. Otherwise it just feels like pointless window dressing.

Faffing around with an idea for an Underdark type setting that's monstrous races only, and with no arcane/divine magic, just psionics. The biggest issue is finding a psionics system that's actually worth a damn; I'm thinking of just stealing the one from Stars Without Number, or maybe Chaosiums' Basic Roleplaying.

>Holmes.
Holmes uses d8s. I'm not sure it actually ever comes out and tells you what size dice to use, but if you look at the monster stats, you can tell it's d8s because A) it indicates 1-4 hit points for monsters with half a Hit Die, B) dragons go up to 8 hit points per Hit Die, and C) the sample dungeon has a 2 HD monster with 13 hit points.

Hey /osrg/, do you have any ideas for a session without a dungeon? Like, something that still provides ample danger and excitement, but without the romp-through-endless-rooms bit.

A castle or a tower maybe?

I was thinking something more outdoors

A forest or a swamp?

possible, they're really close to a super-spooky forest. Would a forest where you always get lost work as an adventure, or is it too cliche?

World of the Lost for LotFP. Tho it will require a bit of prep or improvisation on your part.

>Trove

What is the link? How do I use that info there? Call me a newbie, if you must...