Hi all. Anyone got any good alignment charts?

Good and evil are forces that you can measure, etc etc...

Jesus christ, that scruffy hooligan. Never again.

Holy, shit I've never had a conversation with a more autistic person. All alignment charts are bullshit because there is no universal idea of good or evil. In any normal stable modern society, the "justice system" is a punishment system. So if you want to sperg out about it then consider justice as punishment.

In D&D yes, and I have no problem with that as a game mechanic or way to map a character behavioral patterns. I just don't understand why this guy(possible multiple people. I don't know) is so obsessed with the relativity of the definition of justice, when the original is just as relative. For the sake of a substitute, which is what I original wanted to discuss, it works just as well.

>CN
>I'm Lawful Evil
Priceless.

> In any normal stable modern society, the "justice system" is a punishment system.

No, absolutely not. You need to educate yourself. In almost every developed European country, the justice system is a rehab system. Not a "justice" driven by the victim's will. That's why death penalty doesn't exist anymore in civilized countries.

This one requires some thought.

user you originally replied to
I see justice as a rather finite thing that has to arise with civilization. You take out a loan and sign a contract. Justice would be the loaner receiving his money, wether he must take all your possessions till h regained his value, or have the government repay him after throwing you in jail. Either way he must have justice for you breaking a contract.

That is what I see justice as

I should add on that in this sense I feel there is little difference from justice for medieval to modern societies. how exactly you achieve justice is different.

dnd alignment is shit and people who take it first and then write their character around it are stupid and shitty roleplayers.

>The United States
>China
>India
>Japan
>South Korea

None of these countries are civilized according to you. Forgive me if I don't ignore all of your retarded opinions.

If I can give you some advice it would be to go to amazon, buy a tank of helium and proceed to inhale the entirety of it.

Oh Lord I'm giggling

South Korea is apparently run by a shadow government and some insane shit so I would say it isn't civilized.

Seriously, look up the news of what is actually happening in South Korea.

China and India definitely aren't countries where the Human rights are the best. That you have to put the USA next to them raises questions indeed.

>justice-forgiveness and religious-spiritualist
I don't think either of these are really opposites of each other, or form a spectrum. They're both just pairs of not-necessarily-related ideals.

I think the only country on that list where you can get at least 90% of the people to agree it's fully civilized is Japan.

And even then, Japan society still is batshit insane on certain levels like dedication to your job and suicide rates.

The U.S. justice system is sort of a mix between punishment and rehabilitation. To the point where it's a bit of a soggy mess and it doesn't really do either.

Civilized doesn't mean good.
There is a reason why Japan has such huge suicide numbers.

USA has a Great Justice System, If you're Rich.

If you're poor it's another bullshit tax, and punishment system looking to just dick your day over.

Cool, lets look at all the civilized countries that don't have the death penalty.

South America
Brazil
Venezuela
Uruguay
France
Greece

Sorry, meant South Africa

China has great justice system if you're in good graces with the Party.
India has great justice system if you're of the best caste.

You're retarded. Justice is a word that has connotations depending on culture, as is mercy.

What he proposed, the strictness versus leniency thing, was a very good way of avoiding the semantic argument you're currently losing.

Also, the countries leading the list of happiest nations on Earth.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Happiness_Report

Civilized can mean a lot of things.

Let's consider something we can put a number on. For example, the HDI. Out of the first ten countries on the list, the USA is the only one where death penalty is still legal.

Actually the European Union even forbids the transfer of prisoners if that means they risk the death penalty.

Well if you say I'm losing then holy fuck I guess I lost, damn it.

Also I'm not arguing semantics, that autist is arguing semantics, maybe that's why I'm "losing" because I'm not trying to argue that Justice means one defined thing in all cases. Also, strictness versus leniency, what the fuck does that mean, strict about what, everything? lenient on what, the amount of spices you put in your cooking that wasn't in the recipe. If I'm retarded then you must be full on brain dead.

>Let's consider something we can put a number on. For example, the HDI. Out of the first ten countries on the list, the USA is the only one where death penalty is still legal.
yes but that is because not every state made it illegal.

Personally I don't see why taxpayers should be giving sustenance to someone who wont contribute to society after breaking the laws of society. I would prefer more labor based prisons, but sadly that would get people crying slavery.

Happy doesn't mean civilized, monkeys can be happy but you wouldn't call them civilized.

So we agree, justice is simple the system most politer societies use to oppress the undesirables, while keeping a straight face, smiling, and acting like it's their fault.

>I would prefer more labor based prisons,
America has a problem of too many prisoners, not useless prisoners.
The entire world has a problem of overproduction, not lack of labor.
Having your prisoners work would ruin your economy.

Part of the goal of trying to rehab them is so they contribute to society again.
Also you know, that whole "they're human beings like you and me" stuff.

Have you taken a look what they measure happiness by?

Not anyone you replied to, but going from counties that use their justice system for punishment to countries that don't have the death penalty seems like your grasping at straws here. But as I've started to reply, let's play your game

Countries with the death penalty:
USA
North Korea
China
Saudi Arabia
UAE
Iran
Zimbabwe

As you can see, I too can quote some countries from a list I found and give them no real context to support my argument.

Well honestly you need both. Without punishment there's no reason beyond morals not to kill people, which gives way to opportunities for vigilante justice, which means paediatricians get their houses burned down.

...

Canada.

...

Ok, well, not, like, usually. I think someone would have to engage in high-treason for something like that. I believe the law is still there, but, as with most Canadian laws (including our concubinage laws), they're old, moldering, and nobody can really do anything with them.

(Execution by hanging, I should clarify)

>Personally I don't see why taxpayers should be giving sustenance to someone who wont contribute to society after breaking the laws of society

Well if you're referring to cases of murder etc then I agree on a moral standpoint, but I would also point out that it is very very hard to bring someone back to life when it turns out they were innocent all along. At least you can release a false convict.

If you mean "DEATH PENALTY FOR EVERYTHING" then... Yeah, no. You might as well be hung for a sheep as for a lamb.

...

I'm sorry if you felt that way, my argument wasn't suppose to be a big thing, I was just trying to make a point that saying a culture is uncivilized because it has the death penalty is stupid and close minded to other variables. I wasn't trying to say anything else about it. Also I wasn't the guy that said justice systems are for punishment.

The thing is, your argument is really bad, because it doesn't disprove anything.
It's just a "bad by association" thing.
When I say "life cannot be without water", your pointing at Europa and saying it's devoid of water therefore life and water are completely independent would be fucking stupid.

>devoid of water
*devoid of life

Yeah, that sounds like a hold over from when they were a colony, you can still technical be hung for treason in the UK as well, but the last execution in the UK was in 1964, so I can't see it coming back.

Ah okay then, I apologies for thinking you where the same person.

I don't entirely agree with this one. Lincoln didn't give 2 fucks about slavery until it would help the war effort, and he suspended habeas corpus. Ghandi also perpetrated the caste system so fuck him.

But if you kill your enemies, they win.

>Che
>not Evil
Remember, kids, not every terrorist is Muslim.

Definition of a terrorist really depends on who win the war at the end.

Fuck commies, they always make people believe their cause for the common man until they're rounding up and massacring those common men for disagreeing at all with them.

Accccck Trudeau

I like him better than Harper, but that one quote has so much bitch in it that it makes me cringe

Well, not many people engage in high-treason anymore. I think someone would actually have to try to take a shot at the whole Royal Family in order to be charged with it, even in Canada.

In Canada's case, like...being separate from Britain (mostly), I can't see how anyone could attempt to use it.

>also perpetrated the caste system so fuck him.

having Castes isn't inherently evil. Heck, very little is, even slavery. Though that last bit seems to anger Americans quite a bit. Idk, after looking at the history of slavery, the kinds of slavery, the why and how of slavery, I've come to view it less as an evil and more of a "not very viable anymore" kind of thing.

I'm not saying not having a death penalty is bad or that having one is good. I was just trying to point out that there are civilized and uncivilized countries in both categories. The comparison of water and life isn't very good because the capital punishment or the lack of it, doesn't make civilization impossible. Where a lack of a source of water does in fact make living there impossible. Also way to call me fucking stupid for an argument that I didn't even make, jerk.

>In Canada's case, like...being separate from Britain (mostly), I can't see how anyone could attempt to use it.
They do still acknowledge the queen, so it's basically the same thing.

>Be born
>Forced into slavery despite never committing a crime

That's evil, then again niggers weren't considered people before so it's just animal husbandry to them.

>Lincoln
>Lawful Good

While I disagree with the good part I can understand the argument for it, but saying he's lawful is just wrong. He ignored the constitution and refused to take the case of whether or not secession is constitutional and instead just provoked a war with them

>All slavery is the same

...

We do, yeah, buuuuuuuuuuut...

...Well, like I said, idk. I guess someone could be treasonous to Canada and they'd just lock them away, but if they took a shot at the Queen on Canadian soil, maybe they could get them that way

Still, all speculation on my part.

I'd like you to tell more about your view of slavery.

Especially if you have a rebuttal to what said.

>I'd like you to tell more about your view of slavery.

I would but...you know, shitstorm. In any case, I'd be speaking as an outsider: I'm not American, and Americans are touchy about slavery.

I'm not american either, and you're anonymous. Come on. What's the worst that could happen ?

Contributing

I'm the same guy as Well, I don't want to derail too bad

aw geez, my Canadian is showing

the difference between a terrorist and a freedom fighter is all in perspective.

...

"They're only terrorists until they win- then they're just rebels"

Don't be a pussy

If a Justice System only works for a certain group of people then there is no justice in the Justice System ergo it's a bad Justice System.

...

...

...

...

this is probably the best ive seen

The meta ones like and always are.

Good Tier
>LG
>TN

Decent Tier
>NG
>CG
>LE

Not Very Fun Tier
>LN
>NE

Go Kill Yourself Tier
>CN
>CE

...

Rance is a great example of orange-blue morality. The good/evil and lawful/chaotic dichotomy simply don't apply to him.

There's a problem with the new common conception of lawful good as presume who are just general do gooders, who will fight against tyranny by breaking the tyrants laws.

It's a valid interpretation of lawful good, but not the only valid interpretation. It is also possible to play a lawful good character as someone who sees the rule of law as the highest good.

Tyrants may be bad in the short term, but they create a structured society, and it is better to change things from within than fight things from without, because the chaos as a result of rebellion will lead to more suffering overall.

Whatever the cost, the law must be upheld, even bad laws, because the rule of law is the most valuable thing to society.

...

Surprizing that rape wasn't mentioned even once

fucking skelington shirt.

I've seen that image a dozen times before and never noticed that. Thank you based user.

...

>Marx
>Not evil

I don't get it

>122▶
>
>
>I don't get it

Loss.jpg

...

I always feel like for this one we should either keep it the same or switch Freedom with mercenaries

You must be new here.

This is arguably the best alignment chart out there

what is it?

S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Some meme game from Eastern Europe that /v/ pretends is good

Like 8 of these quotes are invented by someone who never played the games.

Not really.