Eclipse Phase General - /epg/

tl;dr
I'll just paste this here again:

Books actually DO help with that because it makes understanding the EP writer's intentions easier and more accurate, lets you see what they copied (nothing in EP is original btw, everything is just taken directly from the "inspirations" they have listed, TITANs and their behavior are highly likely to be the same) and can extrapolate what a TITAN would be capable of and what its motives are (Intentional destruction of humanity unlikely one of them, and if so then fighting will be useless).

Seriously, just read the books, the writers presented them on a silver platter. To actually understand EP, you need to the materials it is based on. Your whole babbling about shutdown commands and humans trying to combat a super AI like in hollywood movies is simply ridiculous and childish to me.

>pic related

>Junta

I was actually thinking about this just earlier (possibly yesterday) and "Junta" isn't actually necessarily that bad. It's not inappropriate, if you think about it. "Junta" really just means "Union", like a congregation, or "club", implying companionship, and that's actually pretty appropriate if you want to separate the governing body conceptually.

As if "The Junta" is part of the government, just like "The Senate", or "The Junta" is the entirety of the government apparatus itself. Etc. It's actually not a bad name, seeing as how most of the Jovian Republic is South American.

We just have shitty connotations of "Junta", associating it with Chile, etc., but we can't deny that the Jovian Republic has an uppermost echelon of power that is unelected. Either way, "Junta" isn't a bad way to refer to the "federal government" or that uppermost group of people, either way.

And before anyone bitches, I actually like the Jovian Republic and the Junta, and think that the writers are political illiterates that tried to create an ebul faction to dump on.

You can't beat them because they play the same game, but already know all your moves before you make them. A human being simply cannot out compute a TITAN, and so can't defeat them on a real world playing field. You're never going to do something it doesn't expect.

>wh40k fags

Please leave, you're the one that has no clue.

>hurp durp derpity doo
>muh reading comprehenshu
>just read muh books

How about you just take your inane shit and go fuck yourself with a rake? If you actually had an argument, you would've raised it by now. You don't know shit more than the rest of us.

That being said, I don't necessarily believe any of those theories, I'm saying that literally anything is possible, and pretending that you're extrapolating and thinking that TITANs conform to your faulty perception of "logic" is just elementary school bullshit. Nobody buys that beyond the 5th grade.

Hey /epg/, pregflat player here for more advice... sorta.

We're looking at the 'probably filled with weirdstuff' Ayah pod. Our team grilled the previous owner (who we now know is hyperelite) for more information; apparently the pod's appearance is based off of his ex-wife and he had commissioned it just before he and his ex-wife's 'child' was to be decanted from the Lost generation and presented to them. The Ayah was supposed to be a bodyguard for their lovely young sociopath, and in the owner's own words, 'make sure they knew how to properly be a man'. Seems he's just finally moving on from that whole disaster, wants to get it out of his hab and is willing to go rather cheap on it to do so.

The problem is we're still trying to find out what happened to his ex-wife. He's still being cagey about it, and all we have is a name, but no evidence if it was divorce or death that separated them.

I say kinda advice here 'cause I'm pretty sure we're gonna do the Ayah; our techie was allowed access to the Morph to give it a look over, and there's nothing vile in the cyberbrain and physically it's not in bad shape, just a little underused. It has a helper AI, currently dormant, but we should be able to extract and analyze that easily enough, right? It's just a question of, well, the similarity in looks to the ex-wife of a hyperelite.

>mad poster so desperate to shoot joves that he fraggs his own side

Please, give it a rest. Take some comfurt and sleep it off, K?

How did the ultimates beat them then?

I have no fucking clue. From everything we know it really shouldn't have been possible.

Maybe because the TITANs were dumber and slower then.

Thinking of Ultimates, do they have kids? Do they grow them in tanks or something? They have plans to settle colonies of just Ultimates right? So they must have some population scheme. Also, what are Ultimate names like?

>You don't know shit more than the rest of us.

Yes I do, more than you at least, since you still think your favourite faction can beat a TITAN.

>I'm saying that literally anything is possible
Anything is possible, but very very few things are likely. EP writers aren't very creative, and they won't suddenly deviate from how they wrote the setting.

>thinking that TITANs conform to your faulty perception of "logic" is just elementary school bullshit

I am extrapolating from Superintelligences used in the media that are the source material for EP, the ones listed by the creators. It's not made up and certainly not elementary school bullshit. Authorial intent.

Just read the books.

YES! Someone needs to make that!

>Implying the TITANs are inevitably going to return.

It just the fact that some things can't be beaten. I mean you can be smart all you want but if an atomic bomb is falling on your head right now you are dead. No variants.

Some situations are just unwinnable with resources at hand.

Atomic bombs can be disassembled and converted to computronium.

Only reason Ultimates "won" is because TITANs were still babies, by now they are gods.

Or they're dead. Or they're crazy.

Or any number of things.

Well good luck disassembling detonating atomic bomb.

Known ways to troll /epg/
>Call it the "Jovian Junta"
>Say the Devs were right and the monetary system will become out dated
>Say the Jovians are weak
>Say Scum are the best faction

They probably only increase their numbers through recruitment.

My favorite faction is the ultimates and they've already shown they can beat the titans.

You disassemble it during flight, if it detonates you just sponge it up with fractal magicmatter

>Yes I do, more than you at least, since you still think your favourite faction can beat a TITAN.

This is hilarious, considering that I never claimed such a thing. In a direct confrontation, in all likelihood, any one faction would be complete toast.

I'm ignoring the rest, because you're clearly absolutely and completely fucking retarded. If you had any arguments beyond strawmen, "muh extrapolation" and "muh luhgic", you would've presented them by now.

Whats wrong with the scum?

Maybe the TITANs just got bored of transhumanity and decided to go explore the universe.

1 Babytitan during the Fall, not years later. You are assuming that TITANs didn't evolve to something bigger.

>You disassemble it during flight
You mean you are trying disassemble a ballistic missile moving at around 7-8 km/s through atmo with nanomachines that somehow intercept it? Even though temperatures on it's surface make ceramic plates crack?

I presented them, but I have yet to see any argument from you, other than ad hominem and ignorant raging.

Nothing as far as I can see. They have the perfect economy of no one giving enough of a shit to waste energy over pointless drama and materialism.

>what are femtobots
>tfw femtobots are 10 yo TITAN tech and therefore massively outdated

>Atomic bombs can be disassembled and converted to computronium.
Prove it.

>computronium
lol

>Only reason Ultimates "won" is because TITANs were still babies,
>Prove it.

>by now they are gods.
Prove it.

Judging from how the exurgent virus works they're probably worse off than during the fall.

Prove that that isn't the case. Things turned an entire moon into computronium in a couple weeks.

By now the TITANs are so ahead in technology that they probably figured out time travel and other space magic. Besides, who's to say they couldn't have already infiltrated the ICBM before it even launched?

You're forgetting that the Jovian's are the only group with basically no x-threats within their territory, which means that they are the only self-sustaining faction in the whole setting.

Every other group has numerous x-threats which have to be taken care of by Firewall, and guess what? Firewall only takes care of those threats by doing very horrible things to a lot of people. The only reason the autonomists can be so nice is because Firewall is constantly killing and lying to them to remove the x-threats.

Even the more "reasonable" groups with governments and military forces and transhumanism still have many x-threats within their territory. The only reason the Jovian's are vilified, is because they openly do what it takes to get rid of x-threats, while the rest of the solar system hides how horrible they are while pretending to be much better. And guess what? It only takes one time for an x-threat to get out of hand for the transhumans to get wiped out, which only the Jovian's have prepared for.

Seriously, try reading the books next time before you get into a debate on here.

You're just arguing for the sake of it now.

This argument about the space magic of the TITANs is boring. How about we talk about something else?

Is it rules legal and/or possible in-universe to design a servitor after an Earth creature, complete with a synthetic mask for aesthetic effect?

Yes. That's a silly question, because I think that's already a thing in one of the books.

>Whats wrong with the scum?
Literally everything.

>I presented them
You know it's pointless to lie on a board where the entire history is viewable by anyone and everyone is user, right?

>I have yet to see any argument from you
>What is burden of proof?
>What is evidence of absence?

No known X-Threats. And the only reason they have no X-Threats is because they're too weak and pathetic to worry about.

What happens to femtobots when overheated compressed plasma cone hits them at 8 km/s?

If time travel is possible than maybe. Infiltrating something needs their to be a possible way of doing it. It is not a given. Sometimes it's much easier to destroy something than infiltrate. Some things just can't be countered by subterfuge or surgical strikes or at least need incredibly more advance technology which may be impossible due to laws of physics.

Yes. Now back to TITAN space magic

Femtoswarms function the same as self-replicating
nanoswarms (above), with the following changes:
Area-effect weapons, plasma weapons, vehicle
collisions, and fire-based attacks inflict only 1d10 DV.
They are immune to guardian nanoswarms, and do
not suffer additional effects from adhesives, corrosives,
chemicals, or armor mods.
Femtoswarms may penetrate inside/through objects
and materials at the rate of 20 points of Armor/
Durability per Action Turn, much like water seeps
through fabric. They may penetrate inside most
morphs with one Complex Action.
Femtoswarms can disintegrate and/or convert materials
(including morphs) into part of their swarm at
the rate of DV 1d10 per Action Turn. Once the Death Rating is reached, the morph is completely subsumed into the swarm. Add the Durability of converted morphs/material to the femtoswarm. When 100 points of Durability have been converted, the swarm splits off a second swarm unit. Femtoswarms may interface with electronics and even implants by touch. Many creeper femtoswarms carry the digital exsurgent virus. Femtoswarms are capable of constructing almost anything, including mechanical contraptions, electronics, ultra-dense materials, superconductors, refractive metamaterials (invisible), and other exotic types of matter with unusual properties such as zero friction,
high tensile strength, extraordinary critical temperatures, and so on. This includes the temporary creation of strange matter (matter with unruly quarks) that is stable at standard gravities, which would repel normal
matter, thus providing the repulsion effect described under creepers (p. 101).

Asking for proof or anything substantial to support ridiculous claims is bait, now?

>Literally everything.
>Known ways to troll /epg/
>Say Scum are the best faction

X-Threats are system wide, it doesn't matter if your weak country bumpkin nation doesn't have any known x-threats in it. TITAN arrives, you are toast anyway.

Dude you're talking shit with nothing to back it up.

>Is it rules legal and/or possible in-universe to design a servitor after an Earth creature, complete with a synthetic mask for aesthetic effect?

Absolutely. There's even rules for Smart Animals in.. Transhuman, I think. There's also Pods that could mimic different animals, but you'd probably have to make that some form of custom morph.

Not even, Iepetus is made of computronium isn't it? Like that's the word they use in the books?

>What happens to femtobots when overheated compressed plasma cone hits them at 8 km/s?

They convert the matter and energy to more femtobots

>Infiltrating something needs their to be a possible way of doing it.
>or at least need incredibly more advance technology which may be impossible due to laws of physics.
Our current understanding of the laws of physics. Never assume you know how the universe already works, retard.

Okay guys, since half the time whenever the concept of the TITANs returning is brought up half the board says that no one including the Jovian's would survive it, let's talk about something much more likely to happen, that is somewhat survivable. A large scale exsurgent outbreak.

Because we can't know what the motivations of the TITANs are, we don't know if they'll return. But we do know that it only takes a single x-threat to get out of hand for the exsurgent virus to be raging across the solar system.

Now obviously, the Jovian's are the best prepared for such an outcome. In fact, it's unlikely they'd even be really threatened in such a scenario given their preparation, training, and extensive defenses. The question then becomes, who else would survive? Titan? The LLA? The PC? I'm personally betting on Titan and the Ultimates surviving with the Jovian's, personally.

Man I love that space magic.

Not all X-Threats are TITAN:s, you insignificant fuckmuppet.

Your asking for proof about a hypothetical Science Fiction universe with nano technology that may not even be possible.

Where do I talk about OUR understanding of physical laws?

My argument:
TITAN behavior and capabilities can be extrapolated from the source material that the writers used to write the EP setting, based on the fact that everything else in the setting is a direct copy from said source materials.

Your counter-argument:
You know nothing lol

gg

Ultimates might fuck everyone else by locking them out of the Pandora Gates.

That said, I'm not 100% about how the Jovians could possibly be prepared for that sort of thing, just because I don't understand how a preparation could be possible. Exsurgent virus subverts everything. Any system, biological or digital. If a speck of the shit got inside of the Republic, it would spread like anywhere else I imagine.

Considering that they still take damage from plasma weapons that's unlikely.

>I expect people to try to read this without any formatting whatsoever
>Yes, I am in fact this much of a pompous cabbage fairy.

It would have to get into the habitats and ships first, and the Jovian's ships and defensive systems are designed to prevent subversion from the exsurgent virus.

You guys do realize that not every x-threat is a TITAN right? It also refers to things such as outbreaks of the exsurgent virus.

>i know how this thing is going to work out in this book cause it's kinda like what happened in a completely different book

>Now obviously, the Jovian's are the best prepared for such an outcome

They aren't though. If anything, having a lesser understanding of science and an aversion to nanotechnology (guardian swarms included) it just makes them weaker.

How though? Isn't it supposed to be potentially super undetectable when dormant?

Yeah, the Jovians are an X-Threat.

I am not the one claiming something as fact. In fact, what I said was that anything is possible based on what we know, while the butterfaced cuntsocket keep pretending like he knows something the rest of us don't, which is patently ridiculous.

That is not an argument. You have nothing to back that up whatsoever. You're making a statement. It means nothing. Meanwhile, we have an entire section in the books dealing with the unknowable nature of the TITANs and their motivations, clarifying that this is intentionally and explicitly left open for debate and interpretation, for the GM to decide if it ever becomes relevant.

You're a bigger faggot than OZMA.

>picture related
>you're on the 9th panel

found the newfag

I'm in the 12th panel.
I'm so sorry, guys.

Only 1d10 and they can create strange matter which is specifically used to rpel such attacks. You are assuming that the nuke will be up against a single person sized swarm and not a kilometer big cloud of it.

I don't know the specifics, but what I do know is that the books state that the Jovian's have pretty much no x-threats within their territory, so they must be doing something right.

I do know that they use physical wiring for their ships and defenses and communication, though, so I think that prevents the virus from spreading digitally.

Firewall is an x-threat...
No, seriously, if the Jovian's are an x-threat cause they are "oh so oppressive",

Yes, exactly, because that happened already with existing lore in EP.

That seems... dubious. I'm unsure how you could transmit the required information for the stuff they do and also not be able to to transmit digital exsurgency.

then Firewall is an x-threat for being a bunch of murderous secret "necessary evil" types

I don't know man, but they run the simulations against the TITANs and they like what they see, and they keep the x-threats at bay within their territory. How? I don't know. But they do.

>lesser understanding of science
They don't though.
>aversion to nanotechnology
Yeah because the titans haven't been able to usurp control of these in the past and use them against humanity.

>jovians
>lesser understanding of science
What? Jovians are at the scientific forefront, with easily the best military equipment in the solar system, and the best understanding there is of antimatter reactors and physics, and the infrastructure to back up and disseminate the use of said technology.

Nothing else comes close, even if there'd be individual persons elsewhere with greater knowledge than any one individual jovian.

>aversion to nanotechnology
>makes them weaker
That same nanotech that was subverted and now roam Earth, looking for organics to disassemble?

Yeah, no, if there's an Exsurgent outbreak or a TITAN return, I think I'm going to count "not having nanofabricators in every room" as a big fucking plus, and the fact that there's no autonomous murder-bots, big or small, on every street.

>hi, I've never actually read the EP books, or somehow transferring how they're laid out to a different location makes their content irrelevant the the poster an elitist prick

I'm not even involved in this shit show and can see this is just a pretentious ad hominem attack.

I'm unsure how to feel about this then. It just strikes me as wrong. Seems like the writers were just saying shit, and then not backing it up at all. Kinda like the Ultimates somehow beat TITAN forces on Earth, or some shit that the TITANs actually do themselves. They say "it just is" and then never extrapolate on it.

Cause they want this stuff to stay mysterious

And they want the GMs to make up the answers for them. Don't forget that.

You're pretty much spot on. It's important to understand that the Jovian's actually are pretty scientifically advanced, it's just that they are developed in ways that subvert the technology of TITANs and transhumans. This means that sure, you don't get to be an octopus with 9 penises at the drop of a hat, but don't think that their military is a bunch of pushovers, lest they own your ass in battle.

Alright, I'll concede the the TITAN stuff, but the Ultimates and Jovians still needs explaining. It feels like bullshit, given what else we are told about Exsurgents and TITANs.

>You have nothing to back that up whatsoever

The entire EP setting. It is a copy of the source materials listed. It stands to reason that [Super AI in EP] works the same way or similar as [Super AI in source material] when [Everything else in EP] works in the same way or similar as [Everything else in source material].

I am arguing on the meta layer, while you are still insisting on staying in a closed off system with game knowledge only.

Honestly, arguing with you is tiring, because it is very apparent that you don't really know anything about EP other than what's presented to you in the game books, which is the wrong way to go about things imo, because those don't exist in a vacuum. There's a reason why EP is written as it is, why it has the elements it has. Ignoring those reasons seems dumb to me.

You're gonna see a lot of bad writing and contradictions in Eclipse Phase, sorry to say. But hey, that's the cost that comes with being one of two settings that has transhumanism.

I get that, but I'm not just gonna roll over and take it. The Jovians just feel un-expanded upon. Their pigeon-holing into bad guys has also left them with bullshit abilities with nothing to back it up.

The Ultimates too. I still don't understand what the +Eugenics actually fucking means in relation to them, or how they fight well against TITANs besides "le analog technology". What the fuck does that mean?

>nd they keep the x-threats at bay within their territory

This is starting to turn into a really shitty repetitive point.

Jovians don't have X-risk problems that we know of mostly because they have minimal vectors. They didn't start with a TITAN/ETI site or have any major TITAN attacks. They have strict controls and filtering to make sure only certain people and information gets in or out. And they plan to keep it that way - as their T-Day plan is to raise a giant data curtain and tell everybody else to fuck off, they've got theirs.

This, of course, makes them the x-risk. If the Jovians could persist in this way, they could irrevocably alter the direction of transhumanity and alter fundamental directions in such a way that it would be beyond the practical scope for it to be undone. They seek to control technology, to control knowledge, to control behavior and limit the ability of an individual to do so, and some push against other outside communities to do so. They do this with military force and displays of power, with no interested vested in them other than the Security Council said "we own Jupiter, pay us or else".

This is something people forget when they discuss X-Risks. Regression or Totalitarian control/subversion are usually small beans compared the cosmic shit of Existential Threats, but just like the Ultimates, if the Jovians did go off their rocker and go all "DEUS VULT" they could be the thing which presents a fundamental risk to shape the future of transhumanity as a whole.

>I still don't understand what the +Eugenics actually fucking means in relation to them,

They want the genetrash to get better DNA and stop fucking reproducing with their shitty defective flats, jesus it's not that hard.

>"le analog technology".

Analog Tools - usually -10 to use, but a broad range of bonuses or outright immunity to Basilisk Hacks. Also no mesh - no wi-fi hacking.

Dude we already know that the titans don't work like in other settings because of the exurgent virus.

But they can't go "DEUS VULT!" becauce they are not the only one who have industrial scale antimatter production.