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wmhwtc.wordpress.com/2016/09/06/2016-wtc-list-statistics/
>WTC List Statistics

wmhwtc.wordpress.com/2016/09/07/2016-wtc-objectives-chosen/
>WTC Objectives Statistics

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>WTC Lists

ONE WEEK TO WMW Edition

Previous Thread
Scenario Advice
druidsdice.blogspot.com/2016/10/scenario-8-recon.html

Who here is going to WMW?
I am bringing Skorne and Guild Ball and watching some painting classes.

>eJuniors Hordes Spoilers
Zaadesh2 has Burning Ash
Una2 gives her BG Flank [Griffon]

Reposting a rules questions:
Does Sevvy1 benefit from Eye of Menoth himself? Does it increase his spells?
Does his feat prevent models from using magic special abilities or does it only block spells cast? (A mk2 source said yes, but now it's mk3, so I'm not sure if it still counts)

Yes he benefits from Eye of Menoth
Yes his feat prevents models from using magic abilities

Nice, so Asses to Asses becomes POW 11? And POW 13 when channeled through BoV?

And can you explain why it prevents magic abilities? Where is the rule that they count as spells?

>Where is the rule that they count as spells?

Page 72 of the rulebook.

Great, have a Vigilant! It's definitely one my favourite models the Protectorate has to offer.

Am I right in thinking if Haley 1 feats, Long gunners can aim, and potentially fire 3x Rat 15 pow20 shots?

Yes. Pow 21 if you use the UA.

Yeah. My personal favorite though is Siege's feat turn, popping off two armor piercing pow 20s on two different targets. He can also foxhole them to make them pretty hard to remove if there isn't stuff like eleaps and ashes to ashes in play.

Yes, but they're still not as good as Trenchers or Storm Lances.

They're not one of Cygnar's only two units, so don't even bother.

Yes but why would you want that?

What's the best faction for a first timer?

So with the Master Tormentors and Void Spirits being as good as they are, is there any reason to take the Skorne infantry beyond Beast Handlers?

Bloodrunners are great. Reivers seem p ok. Karax are probably the best 11 point unit in the game.

Not Skorne or Cryx

Im able to find the alphabets for the various factions, but I dont see any numbers. Do the factions just use arabic numerals or what?

Khador. Their stuff is tough enough to be a bit more forgiving of mistakes and the lack of arcnodes means their Warcasters are often a bit more straightforward in design,

If i only want to run jacks/beasts and solos, what warcaster from either Legion or Retribution would be the most competitive?
Any idea on a sample list?

Abby2

Yes. There are reasons to take any Skorne infantry unit other than Swordsmen. There are *great* reasons to take Karax, and not many good reasons not to.

>aw shit
>they're gonna get nerfed, aren't they?

Melt her frozen heart, user.

>sorscha3 feat: Remembering Vlad's "It's not you, it's me" breakup speech. Berserk, Overtake, Additional dice attack and damage. Grievous Wounds if target model has pauldrons.

Reminder that Karax are very overrated.

>Tyrant Commander
>Push to the Limit battle plan removed
>Stir the Blood battle plan added
Voila, it's good.

They're pretty good though. Skorne does suck, but karax, reivers, nihilators, ferox, slingers, bloodrunners, their artillery, and all of their solos are totally servicable units.

Their casters and battlegroup options are ass, and the whole faction suffers from a support tax that's too high.

Boy I sure love paying 6 points so my infantry have the same P+S as any other infantry. On top of paying 5 points to make my beasts hit as hard as everyone else's beasts.

No more fucking support bloat.

>No more fucking support bloat.
You say that as if the Tyrant himself isn't a beast in combat. PS12+4d6 on the charge will make a hole in any heavy.

So you attached a missle to the tax? Guess what, it's still a tax.

>all of their solos
The Willbreaker just doesn't do enough. If you could leach back through it, it'd be amazing. Also the PGMT is overrated. She can run in, kill 2-3 guys, but can't Sprint far enough to not just die next turn. They're a last resort in my lists for dealing with infantry. Orin is choice #1.

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

Gentleman, I wonder: How can we fix skrimish/Rumble format for warmahorde?
>inba go play guildball n' shit.
Still. I want beastjack brawling tactics to be a thing. How to make it happen?
For Rumble I thought about somme limitation like no more than 2 non-unique to limit boring spam. Maybe giving 1 free advance deployment/unkeep on a unit to each player. For terrain 3-5 element with 2-3 restricted.
Any recommandation?

And if so much as one point of that is for the standard bearer it's a fucking insult.

Yeah, they could really give him some sort of ability. Any kind really. Just anything that does something. I don't even care what. Just something.

So it's about what you'd expect if you took a faction, made it play a few points down, and didn't give it any broken shit.

That's a problem, but it doesn't seem like a *loud* problem.

Don't play rumble.

Play something the game is designed to handle

Helynna does some excellent mostly 'jack lists for Ret, particularly for Shyeel jacks. Vyros isn't bad for jack spam either, and Ossyan adds a lot to a gunline.

Are you just talking about infantry? Because a faction with nothing but bad warlocks is not a small problem.

Zaadesh2 gets Burning Ash. (High Reclaimer's cloud spell)

Forums say that it's only good if he gets a way to cast it many times and that even then it can't be his only gimmick. Thoughts?

Depends if he's another low fury wonder of a crack at a melee warlock.

If he can cast it twice, upkeep something, and camp enough to live- however he ends up doing it- I'll not bash even if it's his only gimmik.

Experience says he'll be able to cast it twice and have nothing left over to defend himself or pursue other defensive arrangements, and all the ways he can be easily by other, more capable factions killed despite this cloud defense will be regarded as "balancing".

>battlegroup options are ass

I thought the Mammoth, Titans, Aradus Soldier and a few of the Character Warbeasts were still good?

Who is Convergence's main enemy? Trying to determine basing strategy for them...didn't want to do typical gears/cogs.

Those are all "decent"

Aradus are over priced and so Tiberion. Molik Karn is over priced AND terrible. Mammoth has trouble justifying his point cost when two Cannoneers do his job almost as well.

But the Soldier has an arm buff against shooting doesn't it?

Also, what about Despoiler?

Despoiler is faily priced, but he alone cannot pull your battle group together.

Yes the bugs have and arm buff. That doesn't mean they aren't really over priced.

The Sentinels gun is to short and his animus sucks big old titan nuts.

Soldier is the same cost as the Bronzeback.
Bronzeback offers big damage and threats 10 inches with rush. BUT ALSO fury management for your titan herd of "relatively cheap" beasts. BUT ALSO Countercharge to disrupt engagements.

Soldier offers big damage at also a 10 inch. More durable to guns. Not enough to matter. You can't even spam them since they cost so much.

The soldier also has a very cunning drawback to it's "reach/pull" on it's claws threat extention. You can't pull collossals, so it's jaws have a threat of 7" against the things they are absolutely required for. Self-contained, It's a beast of a combat-heavy with AD, pathfinder, high resistance to ranged removal and a one-rounding threat of 9 inches- except for the case of the one job it's the only thing on the table that can do. Then it's out-threated by the thing it's supposed to fight for you. Such is Skorne.

I thought the Bronzeback was worse now to the point where you'd pick a Gladiator or Canoneer over him?

That's very true. I mean, look at the High Reclaimer.

Yup. For some reason people spend 18p on something that 2 beast handlers do better.

Oh the bronzeback sucks and isn't even worth his 18 points either.

However the aradus solider is worse and therefore certainly isn't worth 18 points.

What would you put into a Mercs/Minions starter pack if they were to make one? What if they made a Mercs V Minions 2-player set?

Yes, but what can you really get that's better for 18 points as far as Skorne Warbeast goes?

Ogrun assault corp vs posse for units.

Despoiler and gladiators are all you need. Or cannoneers.

Is the game designed for 35+ format only?

Rumble is 30"x30", which gets reduced to about 22"x22" after you deploying - which means however goes second can already start shooting, charging or what have you. I'd only use it for Battlegroup or maybe 10 pt games.

Oh and also some feats and most 8 FOCUS casters are retarded, because you just can't get out of their feat range.

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points
>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Despoiler [18]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

Gonna be playing a few games tomorrow, got this list ready for someone who wants to play against a list with Despoiler in because he likes the model. I'm going to be HEAVILY leaning on the strength of Void Spirits to clear enemy infantry. So while Mord has no buffs for heavies, I can get away with just plain bringing more of them.

Infact, I'll swap the Handlers for a single max unit, and bring a Soulward. I'll face a Handler backwards on deployment and have the Soulward shoot it in the back for the soul. Mord can always just Revive it. Hell, any turn I'm not doing anything with my fury, I can just build souls. Then when it has enough, they go Hollow and Mord gets souls.

Fury 5 and Pain Response for one.

Cephalyx

War Room Army

Protectorate of Menoth - reznik

Theme: No Theme Selected
75 / 75 Army


High Executioner Servath Reznik - WJ: +28
- Hierophant - PC: 3
- Revenger - PC: 10 (Battlegroup Points Used: 10)
- Reckoner - PC: 16 (Battlegroup Points Used: 16)
- Redeemer - PC: 11 (Battlegroup Points Used: 2)
- Redeemer - PC: 11
- Dervish - PC: 7
- Dervish - PC: 7

Wrack - PC: 1
Vassal Mechanik - PC: 1
Wrack - PC: 1

Choir of Menoth - Leader & 5 Grunts: 6
Visgoth Juviah Rhoven & Honor Guard - Rhoven, Gius & Cassian: 9
Idrian Skirmishers - Leader & 9 Grunts: 15
- Idrian Skirmisher Chieftain & Guide - Chieftain & Guide: 5


---

GENERATED : 10/29/2016 01:10:54
BUILD ID : 2024.16-08-27

My latest build. I want to stick with it for a while so please give some tipls for it.

Why Dervishes?

So, conflictchamber is down. I can't complain too much because I'm hardly paying anything for hosting, but it's annoying.

Anyone suggest a good hosting place that's... reliable and not horribly expensive?

Seriously?

Hmm, well that doesn't really have specific basing. Guess I'll do a ruined town.

Working on a Steamroller pairing for a tournament. Thoughts?

well they're both subterranean races, it makes sense that they'd butt heads all the time.

Are there any images of their temples (Convergence)?

Convergence has some other enemies as well.

Dwarves as a group hate the Convergece, because any dwarves that go on to worship Cyriss aren't worshipping the great fathers.

Circle is also one of their big foes, as they're fighting over the same spots for use as energy.

Oo, Circle eh? Are the Convergence Temples in the woods--around Ley Lines?

>tfw Zaadesh2 is actually not that bad
>mfw Circle xmas never ends

Yea. In fact, Convergence is attempting to realign the leylines to better suit their purposes, something that puts them at pretty big odds with Circle.

The timeskip fluff discussed about CoC said that Circle had blew so many resources trying to put out fires it left them wide open, and Convergence managed to take more than a few leylines from them.

We have actual spoilers, or just the one spell?

Wanting to get into the game. Looking at four factions.

Khador and menoth for warmachine or trolls and circle for hordes.

Which of those do you think is a good beginner army?

Khador and trolls are both innately durable factions, and are thus more forgiving on mistakes. Menoth is still bit more complicated since you have to leverage a bunch of internal synergy to keep everything running at peak performance. Circle is a clusterfuck of tricky tricks and shenanigans. Wouldnthe recommend for a new player unless you had prior war game experience or are a fast learner.

khador or trolls it is.

Hopefully that man'o'war theme force comes out. Heard about possible trencher battle engine too and that sounds fucking cool.

It is worth noting that once you get to full size games Warmachine's learning curve gets pretty god damn massive, so if you're starting a beginner army so you can switch once you've learned something, you're just best off learning the more complicated army. You'll have a harder time at first, but you'll save yourself a shitload of time.

I am a starting Skorne player - would you mind explaining your tactics a bit more? The strategic value of this eludes me.

It's essentially a heavy spam list, where he's relying on several big heavy hitters along with some support to get all his work done.

Mord can use Void Spirits to clear a lot of infantry, so he can focus the rest of his list into being able to kill big stuff. The Cannoneer provides some backup infantry removal at range as well, but the two Glads, Despoiler, and BB pretty much exist only to break things. BB brings some Fury management as a secondary.

Orin is in there to protect his beasts and caster against enemy magic, while the Beasthandlers are in there to do their stuff.

He's looking to use his feat as a delivery method, using that +3DEF to keep his big boys safe on the way in.

At least, that's my analysis of the list at a glance, I'm no Skorne player.

>Circle is a clusterfuck of tricky tricks and shenanigans.

This. Out of all of the factions I've fought, Circle was always the screaming cunt filled with bullshit. If you want to win by pretty much jumping over your opponents army and fucking their Warverber, pick Circle.

On a feat turn with no upkeeps on he hits at Pow 14 + 5d6 when charging a model engaged with one of his warbeasts.

Menoth has just as much, if not more denial as Circle does. Though I guess I don't know how Mk3 has changed that.

Source?

Soles and company have managed to take a pretty great game and shove it down the shitter.

I'm pretty sad about the game now.

I mean, I don't think that the game is that bad right now, I just think that their PR has been so fucking poorly managed that it seems bad.

Like, the boogymen of Mk3 aren't nearly as nasty as the ones of Mk2, and outside of Skorne, I think options are overall better balanced. Gunlines need a tweak, but hell, WM spam needed a tweak for years in Mk2 and the game managed to go on.

Don't let Sole's inability to grow out of his highschool goth phase put you off the game.

Meh.

Nothing in Mk3 is as bad as Mk2 Gaspy2 or Haley2.

There's a different set of bullshit at the top, but it's not as bad as it was. If they follow through with the actually rebalancing stuff via errata, things will be much better.

Bump for comments.

I'm pretty happy with the Amon list, but iffy on the Kreoss list since I don't play him as much because I feel *worse* about dropping "oh, you moved your caster within 20" of mine, you lose" than "here, deal with seven heavies".

+3 def on def 10 beasts isn't shit. His feat is only good at delivering infantry or lights.

I wasn't making observations of the strength of the tactic, simply what how the list plays.

Beyond that, Skorne players need to quit bitching about their 10/19 statline and focus on their real problems. They are not the only faction with a 10/19 line on their heavies.

Fyanna2 definitely gets more out of a +3 def feat.

I didn't complain about the 10/19. I said a +3 def buff on def 10 is worthless, and that is a fact. 10/19 is fine if you get armor buffs, but Skorne really doesn't get any of those. Defender's ward, x1's feat, and naaresh's feat is it. Agonizer helps but only against melee.

Amon really should have two min choirs instead of one max. I also never run him without a devout and vigilant.

I just hope the errata actually improve the game. Something makes me think PP don't actually know what the hell they are doing anymore.

>and focus on their real problems
Like needing to bring 20p of support to make our stuff not suck. Or our infantry sucking regardless of how much support they get.

It's not that our infantry it's bad it's that our infantry can only kill other infantry, while everyone else gets infantry that can crack armor., while either being cheap or decently costed and durable.

All we get is arcuarii which are fragile and cost more than the single wound options others get while only hitting as hard as them and being slower, or we get cetrati which is the cost of a heavy cavalry unit while doing less damage than a cavalry charge.

Like, they get enough right that it can't just be a fluke.

I just think they've picked an insane idea for Skorne and they want to stick to the fluff instead of trying to make them work as a competitive option, a choice they've said they regretted. Now the question is if they will actually do something about it.

Like, a shitload hinges on this errata. If they don't get this shit right, I think Warmachine is going to end up in a downward spiral. They've blown so much good will in the last year.

>It's not that our infantry it's bad
Yes. Yes it is. Have a look at other faction's infantry and compare them for a second to our crappy Hoksune mess. Now add to that the fact that other factions can suppport their infantry very well, sometimes with just their caster.

>Like, a shitload hinges on this errata. If they don't get this shit right, I think Warmachine is going to end up in a downward spiral. They've blown so much good will in the last year.
Absolutely. If I were them I'd work very very hard until January. That pdf will make or break the game.

Bloodrunners, karax, nihilators, we have single wound infantry that are great. It's just that they're great at killing other infantry. We're awesome at killing single wound infantry. Nihilators will tear through an infantry blob just like they did in mk2. But killing infantry isn't a thing that we need units to do because we have maybe some of the best anti infantry solos in the game with PGMT, and one of the best solo hunters in the void spirit. And you don't see infantry nearly as much as you used to. Only things I can think of that are better are some of the ranged solos like deathstalkers and kell bailoch. Combine those with cannoneers and what we need our units to do is jam and crack armor. Karax and cetrati can jam, but we can't crack armor. We need skorne doom reavers, knights exemplar, champs, anything like that. Instead all we have is arcuarii.

to their credit, they have managed to fix their PR problems, or at least from making them worse, and they've been honest about their mistakes and issues.

One other thing that I think they really made a mistake on was simply how like extra meat Mk3 had. I mean, we got Rumble format, which no one is going to play, and not anything else.

They really should have found a good mode or modification to the game to shake shit up.

I'd have personally loved being able to play two warcasters/warlocks, though the rules would have to be changed pretty drastically for it.