/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

What if I want a system with in-depth rules for being a Werewolf, that focuses on the difficulties that you would face as a Werewolf, with conflicts focused around coming to terms with being a Werewolf, but I also don't want to be forced to be a Power Ranger who talks to ghosts, who consults with a shaman who makes deals with a used-condom spirit, that places a frankly unhealthy amount of time justifying why two Werewolves having sex is worse than incest.

The kiss automatically causes swooning or scarred depending on whether it's non-violent or violent in 2e.

You mean the penalties you get for ignoring the thematic elements that exist in no other Werewolf/Vampire media, that exist solely to punish players who don't adhere to the setting original content.

>I'm annoyed that the book written for a specific universe doesn't automatically accomodate my desire to jury-rig it to work in some other Universe of my own design
Haha, get fucked.

Two werewolves having sex isn't a problem anymore.
Have you read the new book?

user I know you haven't done it with a woman in some time. But when you do it right thats what the bite feels like, but if you do it wrong and they beat you, up that is also the bite.

You see just because people call women crazy doesn't mean that they are actually. You're confusing the two, user. They're not mentally ill, they just don;t like you. Don't worry one day you'll mean a nice ... person and it'll all work out for you.

No, I'm annoyed that the setting original content is all bad and obviously exists for no other reason than to force characters into hackneyed archetypes.

You mean the one that introduced a race of demonic Ratmen for Werewolves to protect the world against, just like all the classic Werewolf stories had?

Except that's not how it works faggot.

If you bite someone forcefully they're scarred, if you bite them non-forcefully they're swooning.
The option to bite someone because you're hungry without jacking off under the table doesn't exist.

It is like this solely to remind players that being a Vampire is a cursed existence, that the action tied to their very existence is sexual and damaging, and all that other Twilight-tier hogshit that goth faggots eat up.

And so the average player doesn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that there is literally no ethical drama if all they do is drink 1 dot of blood off 10 different people in a night when you don't add some 'gotcha' to it.

>It is like this solely to remind players that being a Vampire is a cursed existence
Grab some blood bags you whiny cunt

I've joined this oWoD discord channel lately and hoo boy is it shit.

>Vozhd rampaging through the streets for no reason
>Prince using Obtenebration in plain sight
>The main 'storyteller's' character has Temporis
>They've completely disregarded the Red Fear (another vampire was using a flamethrower)
>Also have a random Child of Osiris running around

How shit have your experiences been Veeky Forums? Can you feel the salt?

"if you do it wrong and they beat you, up that is also the bite. "
>If you bite someone forcefully they're scarred,

"But when you do it right thats what the bite feels like,"
>if you bite them non-forcefully they're swooning.

user where did the Manly English Teacher touch you that you never learned Reading Comprehension?

Stop prentending inflicting lethal damage to feed isn't a big deal. Swooning and Scarred are not mental illnesses, but in-game rationalizations of why most people don't go reporting that some asshole bit them. The bite also spreads disease, and feeding on ten different people is way more difficult than you make it out to be.

Don't bother he's obviously a Republican. If the harm doesn't affect him he doesn't care

You are the epitome of whiny bullshit.
Jesus Christ, just play a Werewolf game in GURPS or something. Just play your Vampire game where there's no downsides or drawbacks or repurcussions for being a vampire and you can just chew into the neck of 10 people and it doesn't cause problems.
Also, have you ever played a "traditional" Werewolf story, where you just turn into a Wolfman three nights a month?
That's pretty boring.

For a second I misread that as Obfuscate and thought "isn't doing it in plain sight the whole point?"
Also, aren't you the one being salty? I mean, at least from what you just said people seem to be having fun, even if it sounds dumb as fuck.
Also, my experiences with persistent chat settings and MUSH style games is that they're horrible bullshit. Basically similar to your own experiences, but with more pointless backstabbing. Cliques taking over and either strongarming the STs or having the ST be part of the clique and rewarding (or not punishing) their favourites. Everyone else exists solely to colour the world for the *real* group. People letting OOC feelings dictate IC actions. Blatant cheating. Ignoring common sense things like "wizard cops shouldn't kidnap people". I once got put on trial because some hobos that were never mentioned watched me do vulgar magic to stop a fight between some losers and a Banisher/Seer, but the Arrow was throwing celestial fire with his Supernal Familiar. After a week of me being confined to jail IC, the story officially said he was a fucking idiot and I clearly wasn't a BaniSeer. He ragequit. Another time my Sanctum was burned down, the ST basically declared it as such that we could do nothing, the guy who did it deleted his character to avoid facing the consequences, and then he used his ST permissions to sanction his own character [a no-no] and then join up with the clique that benefited the most from our movers and shakers being fucked over.

Chat games are fucking garbage.

>Chat games are fucking garbage.
Truth. This post. It always happens

>People defending beasts and vampires in the previous thread
fucking race traitors.

Not sleazy like you mentioned but Stranger Things is pretty WoD.

Werner Herzog's Nosferatu and Coppola's Dracula are good.

Eh, tried it, but I guess I'm an outlier as it just didn't scratch my itch.

Seen them a long while back. I'm not having much luck with horror/urban fantasy recently.

Supernatural has been around so long it's pretty much a habit that provides no real satisfaction, Stranger Things bored me and the kid characters annoyed me, I liked American Horror Story but it's over with for now, Daybreakers was fun if flawed, I loved Only Lovers Left Alive and may rewatch it for the nighttime city shots alone, but aside from these nothing really sticks out.

From Dust Til Dawn (the Netflix show) didn't grab me early on, but that was because it was a shitty retelling of a classic as far as i got, and now it has three seasons I imagine it's become it's own entity. I may try it next, even if the vampires have that oddly squishy thing going on. Surprised they don't die falling down stairs.

Anyone have the updated Mage 2e PDF with errata?

Give Penny Dreadful a watch, I dont watch many straight up horror movies, I can recommend plenty of great sleazy movies...
Actually watch Bringing Out The Dead. It is about an ambulance driver that sees the ghosts of people he cant save. Fucking awesome flick. Goes great in a double feature with Taxi Driver

Seen Penny Dreadful, thanks, and it was pretty gud, aside from dying far too early (did we ever get a clearer answer than the bullshit one the showrunner gave?).

I'll check out Bringing Out The Dead, thanks.

>Owod, It's crossover
>Be a damn ST
> player fcks up three times(she is the admin)
She's playing the street urchin on the run from the big bad Tech.
> Runs into them on the first day, turns self in.
> Run minor adventure for admin and murderhobo in a broken Tech chantry. let the players run out.
Literal MurderHobo, Homeless Stabbing Evil for sack of being evil. her Magic is drugs and Stabbings, herself and others.
> Second adventure, run her backstory, she's an escaped experiment.
> Enter Brokendown laboratory.
> Finds out she is a clone. MurderHobo takes over adventure and wants to unplug the Original Mage on life support
> Have to stop the adventure so admin can make her own damn choice in her own damn story.
> FastForward She's in the hospital. Don't know WHY I was on vacation that month
> Gets prescribed Meds, Other ST said they'd handle it. [Spoiler] they don't. LazyBitch[/spoiler]
> Meds make her a sleepwalker, but cures her insanity.
> MurderHoBo flushes meds down the drain
> Admin overdoses in desperate attempt towards sanity
> ??? Fuck this bitch
> Admin is the Sister of a high ranking NPC turned PC. Wants to fix her head.
> They're lazy fucks and never get around to it
> Runs around town, gets fucked by vampires. Bleeding out gets taken to hospital.
> Hospital says FCK IT and dejects her ass to a pyshic Ward. Run Living by Techies
> Enter "Rescue Mission" MurderHoBo, FurrFastist, Bronie(Nice guy, wrong crowd), and Bob. Bob Is cool
> Enter Normal hospital, magical hampering field. Not even a no magic field
> Enter Pam the Receptionist Huge Mind Shield
> MurderHobo casts knock off charm spell. Works kindof
> Pam explains the hospital procedures. Offers a Tour and A meeting with the Head Adminstration.
> Explains they'll need to give some ID
> Explains that they'll be searched for Sharp objects and Drugs. Pretty Reasonable, don't want sharp things around mentally damaged folks
(cont.)

> MurderHobo flips his shit.
> Pam doesn't back down, All good will lost in this tantrum
> FurFast, Bronie and Bob agree and hand over ID
Why these fucking bitchs didn't use Fakes IDs. Fuck these dumb bitchs expecting me to hand them the Technocrats for a third time
> FF Bronie and Bob walk inside
> MurderHobo walks outside and around the back
> I try to introduce a simple character to explain the situation. Calls him a fag, welp that NPC is not going to help anymore
> Ground FireDoor only opens from Inside, Handle is on the Inside, cause yeah fuck this exact situation.
> Fire Escape swings down from second story
> MurderHoBo procedes to fail muliptle Climbs checks
> -murderhobo why don't you use magic-? Bitch has forces bitch has life. literally a dozen ways for her to do this. Dumb bitch never learned the game in over six months of play time. FFFFFFF
> Not helping her this time, cause fuck this bitch claiming to beat the techies twice before hand, with those preivous milk run shit.
> After about a hot minute of roll fail. Flaming jackass wouldn't use willpower. Declare he can simply forgo roll by taking an hour to do so.
> MurderHoBo is barely contianing his shit. I'm a smug ass, but I'm trying not to show it.
> Finally he'll calm down, and learn not to rush nope
>Realize He's been trying to rush blitz the scene the whole damn time
> I've sat down and ran a ten man PVP, I'm NOT getting rushed down
> At this point inside team has actually made progress.
> Bob distracted Nurse while FurFast and Bronie got away
> Nurse Explains the hospital staff, goals and operations

> Nurse Explains the hospital staff, goals and operations

> MurderHoBo Calls inside. Says "Pull the Fire Alarm"
> Realize this is a desperation move
> I pause the session to talk with Side ST about what this means
>Reads Hospital procedure.
> Two Alarms. Aid has to go check before a general alarm is called. Makes sence flashing lights loud Noices around the unstable is a bad idea. Determines that makes perfect sences for techies control and procedure orienated paradigm.
> Standard technology is awesome. Cameras are awesome. Eletrical trips are awesome.
> They Pull the alarm
> no lights no loud noices ... beat ...
> Oldman runs around the corner out of breath with a fire extinguisher. Asks Fire?
> Bronie asks to call for the night. I like bronie I agree and let him and FurFast Fair escape away. Basically thinking escorted out
> Give rest of the players options to fair escape. They take it.
> Give Admin a chance to escape. fucks it up
> Escapes general population. Good Start. Runs into hallways without a clue, bad start. Not giving Players anymore chances. lead her to doctor. so we can move the plot
> Meets the Doctor. Doctor Asks what happened, being all dipolmantic. Please explain. Meeting you halfway.
> Roundhouse Sit. Luls No I have labcoat Armor.
> Runs away again
> I'm too nice
> Led her run to roof.
> has a temp guardian spirt, never claimed it. FFFFUUU
> Lets her climb onto the roof fencing. Tells her jumps = maybe escape, most probably death. Perfect opertunity to End the Madness Now, like she'd been wanting to and saying to for a while.
> Chickens out like a coward.
> Goes back
> Doc offers One more chance to explain. Attacks again.
> Doc is done with this and tazes the bitch. Should have just shot her.
> I'M SO DONE
> They complain. Fck these bitchs
> Handoffs the adventure to another ST. Rehash material. Don't care it's over.

(Cont)

> two weeks later, Gets IDed for looking at the park with a telescoping magical item. ... From three miles away. LazyFucking Bitch gives the character's Secrete ID For free, To the Entire Venue. FUCK THAT CHEATING HORSE SHIT. Not the first time FurrFag has pulled that NPC metagaming horse crap. but just the right time for me to say fuck that sht.

>Two Weeks after THAT ADmin Murderfucks an old folks Home.
>Finally Two Weeks After that Roit for everyone not the ADmin's Cabal

Sorry user but the skaven-lite were in 1st and 2nd.

>And so the average player doesn't put 2 and 2 together and realize that there is literally no ethical drama if all they do is drink 1 dot of blood off 10 different people in a night when you don't add some 'gotcha' to it.

You are complaining that vampires dont have any drawback or that they have too many? You autism is confusing.

>The kiss automatically causes swooning or scarred depending on whether it's non-violent or violent in 2e.

Yeah. They get fucked up for a short while. But you know what, they get over it. Rather quickly too.
It's not as if they become, eh, I dunno, mentally ill from it.

Wait.
Are you complaining that there are actual repercussions from feeding off of people as a vampire?

Chapter 1 of the story.
archiveofourown.org/works/8402227

>You're going to be a Werewolf who ignores the spiritual elements of the setting? Nuh uh, if you do you won't be able to progress your renown/honor/glory/etc. which mechanically affects how strong you are in combat.
If you don't go into the spirit, they'll still give you renown for worthy deeds. You don't have to do anything in the spirit for it to exist.

But if you're some sort of weirdie who demands there is no spirit in your game and werewolves must only hunt humans, aside from having really really easy combat, you can just have a rite that gives you renown (its how 1e did it)

>You mean the one that introduced a race of demonic Ratmen for Werewolves to protect the world against, just like all the classic Werewolf stories had?
In classic werewolf stories, werewolves killed good people or demons. Beshilu/azlu can fit as demons.

...

How would you go about adding a bit of Morality to Beast?

I'm thinking about using Conditions like Guilty for if you sate your Hunger without paying lip service to your Lesson, or even simply losing Satiety if you do something shitty enough. I don't want to just give them Integrity back, but I do kind of want to make it so that they've got a very Vampire-esque "you feel sad when you're reminded you're a monster" thing going on.

Anyone here to answer a rather specific M20 rules question?

Just ask the question or gtfo. Faggot.

How many instruments do I need for a spell in M20?

One, faggy mcfagface.

This is pretty crazy but: Have you tried playing D&D?

>This is pretty crazy but: Have you tried playing D&D?

To be fair for a supposedly tool box sometimes it feel the designer do a "my way or gtfo"

Yeah, but you got 5 editions to pick from, plus 3rd party versions like PF and FC.

>Yeah, but you got 5 editions to pick from, plus 3rd party versions like PF and FC.

I meant CoFD and their over enforcing of themes.

Not really. The setting and system are toolboxes, but this isn't a Generic Universal Roleplaying System. That does exist, though, if you'd prefer. Chronicles of Darkness is first and foremost meant to be played in a specific setting that has many optional components. More than that, some tools require a lot less tweaking compared to others. You can go outside of the "forced" themes. It just means more work on your part. And the notion that they should do something different because that's what you want is sort of silly, and clearly not what most fans want. As another user said, these games are very strongly sold on the setting, and things like "werewolves are pack hunters and shaman" is one of the aspects of that setting that people like.

If you don't like that, though, and want to just play a game about someone who turns into an uncontrollable murder beast... well, that's still a possibility. You're just going to have to do your own groundwork, since you're going far outside of what the game is meant for.
Check out the Forsaken Chronicler's Guide for that.

Not this shit again. Someone had started a similar thread about 40k RPG a couple weeks back. If you wanna do shit like this you have GURPS/FATE/Savage Worlds/whatever else. Systems like the FFG 40k RPG and oWoD/CoD have a very particular setting that they are going for, and trying to be some kind of special snowflake that goes around all of it is missing the point of playing such a system. Despite DnD also being mostly open, if you play one of their special settings like Greyhawk, Eberron, Dark Sun, etc. similar rules will have to be followed, too.

While it's true that having too much metaplot can screw with options for the player, that's why CoD exists so that while there's still cool setting/lore, it doesn't get in the way of gameplay. Second, if you want to find ways around certain things, just get creative. Ex. lot of my trolling directed at my superiors in MET is done through coordinating me getting away with it through my Primogen, one time I pissed off a keeper of elysium and managed to survive thanks to a particular Discipline my character had access to plus some lucky rolls.

-Primer (feels like a Mage game)
-Late Phases (Elderly Hunter v BSD)
-Only Lovers Left Alive (Toreador, A how-to guide)
- Aguirre, The Wrath of God (Desperate, evil explorers get what's coming to them)
- Sinister (A Mortal fucks with a a Specter's Fetter.)

I didnt mean sometimes as extreme as overhauling the whole game. But as mechanically broken as OWoD was something i feel was more tool-boxy in nature was that it never tell you what you character felt. Werewolves never had mechanically enforced (or at least that i remember) inherent psychological/personality traits by default. Same with mages (though i dont remember if vampire had to be shitheads by nature).

While in CoFD you have all mage must be hubristic and/or obsessive. All werewolves must think in terms of the hunt, apparently all changeling will be mercurial. Is not even about playing the special snowflake but as ST, if i wanna make a say werewolf who doesnt hunt but instead play the politic game or a mage who is not particular obsessive about mystic shit but wants to grab a position on the concilium (which is an example on one of the books). It feels a little constraining, not a deal breaker though but i dont see the whole "toolbox" advantage CoFD posses over OWoD when as a DM im free to shit all over the "canon" as long as i let the player now beforehand in either games.

>Werewolves never had mechanically enforced (or at least that i remember) inherent psychological/personality traits by default.
If your rage got too high you'd wig out, and if your willpower got too low you could go into Harano and become useless.
> i dont remember if vampire had to be shitheads by nature
The only thing that Vampires had was Fear of Fire and the Sun, as well as occasional problems with wanting to feed really, really bad if they're low on blood.
>While in CoFD you have all...
Because on a certain level, those games are meant to have certain tones. You can blend the tones with others, but the underlying mechanics and fluff support a certain kind of story.

>But as mechanically broken as OWoD was something i feel was more tool-boxy in nature was that it never tell you what you character felt.
Except that it does. All the time.
Even then, the argument that CofD "tells you how to feel" is sort of missing the point. It tells you how to feel in that your actions have repercussions and you generally don't get to decide them. You get to decide how to react to them, but you don't get to decide how you feel about certain things any more than you do in real life. That's sort of the whole point. And oWoD had it a ton, they were just a whole hell of a lot worse at managing it.

It's not constraining, that's the *whole point of the system*. The CofD games are all about playing in settings where your nature is inhuman and different. Systems that mechanically incentive playing someone who's morals and outlook have been changed are not a bad thing.

CofD is still very much a toolbox, and far more of a toolbox than oWoD's very defined and detailed metaplot. Complaining that your toolbox for running modern urban fantasy horror games doesn't inherently have the tools for running high fantasy action heroics pulp games (or whatever else) is like complaining that your toolbox for painting doesn't have roofing nails and shingles.

Why not just play another game if you don't like the setting? White Wolf games have always had their setting tied relatively close to their mechanics.

>Why not just play another game if you don't like the setting? White Wolf games have always had their setting tied relatively close to their mechanics.

I like the setting what i dislike (a little, like i said not a dealbreaker) is how all werewolves and mages feel the same (werewolves think in terms of the hunt and mages are obsessive)

>CofD is still very much a toolbox, and far more of a toolbox than oWoD's very defined and detailed metaplot. Complaining that your toolbox for running modern urban fantasy horror games doesn't inherently have the tools for running high fantasy action heroics pulp games (or whatever else) is like complaining that your toolbox for painting doesn't have roofing nails and shingles.

What? user please, your autism is showing. I never said anything about running "high fantasy action heroics pulp games" just that

A) Just because the setting is left up in the air in many parts doesnt a tool box make. If i wanna make a all-lancea sactum city in Requiem i have to warn the players as much if i was gonna make an all caitiff city in masquerade.

B) >The CofD games are all about playing in settings where your nature is inhuman and different. Systems that mechanically incentive playing someone who's morals and outlook have been changed are not a bad thing.

Past wod games lend more on playing a different biology and society (Now you turn into a wolf, have this fuck up garou nation to deal with). Even lost 1st, did the same as it didnt dictate how your character felt (morality scale aside).

To me it feel restrictive as both DM and Player the way the system forcefully makes you a defined psychology traits. I can ignore obsessions in mage and just downplay them but Werewolf get tricky as many gift only work on the hunt.

>I never said anything about running "high fantasy action heroics pulp games" just that
>(or whatever else)

You can argue that oWoD didn't tell you how your character felt, but considering the long paragraphs about how characters feel and stats LITERALLY being named after emotions, that's bullshit. They had all of that, they just didn't handle it well. The CofD games on the other hand gamify those themes and make them have mechanical weight, which in turn gives them narrative and emotional weight. And yes, in 1st edition nWoD, you had plenty of systems to "dictate how your character felt". In fact, that's a complaint a friend of mine had long before she played 2e.

You can tell me you liked the old way better, and that's fine. But don't act like the old way didn't tell you all about how your character was supposed to feel when there were whole chapters about your biology and society and their effect on you, along with stats like Rage and Self-Control and Angst.

I think you just need to play another game, maybe something with a different design philosophy. You might just not like games that puts heavier emphasis on enforcing archtypes, which is the direction CofD 2e wants to go in with its system.

It told you how your character might feel, but in practice it's not that it didn't do it well as much as it didn't do it at all. That's not a knock on the system, because back then we didn't even know that was something we could do with mechanics. Now instead of the only way to play, it's one way to play, and some people like it more than any of the other ways.

>I think you just need to play another game, maybe something with a different design philosophy. You might just not like games that puts heavier emphasis on enforcing archtypes, which is the direction CofD 2e wants to go in with its system.

Suuure user or i could ignore the mechanic i consider shit. Funny how CoFD fanboys like to wear the "its a toolbox" like is some sort of medal of honor but as soon as someone doesnt like 1 aspect is all "You should play something else"

>Now instead of the only way to play, it's one way to play, and some people like it more than any of the other ways

Thats the most stupid thing i read in Veeky Forums......just wow. You earn the cookie today.

>Werewolf get tricky as many gift only work on the hunt
Werewolves also have a background entirely based on this, being inhuman creatures, and it ties into their origins.
A werewolf could easily create his own gifts not based on the hunt, but the ones that are based down from their forefathers will be.
It sounds like you have more an issue with how the game lines each have a strong overarching theme than anything else.
That said, the reason it is called a tool box is because while each game line has a theme to explore, you do not need to bind yourself to it, and the basic rules and setting can be used to run many kinds of urban horror ideas.

>Now instead of the only way to play, it's one way to play, and some people like it more than any of the other ways.

Because fuck creativity am i right mate? Look at those peasants trying to tweak the game as this was some kind of toolbox or some shit. Dont they know that everytime someone doesnt play the exact standard way the dev intended a furfag gets triggered? How dare they?

Hey Man I have no problem with them being monsters, or can be played like dark knights or victims of circumstance.

Just don't try to pretend that Roofies aren't rapey as Believes

Personally i am more annyoned when making npcs to have to consider those things that are apparently intrinsic to all which makes it repetitive and are also things more designed for pcs than npc as the latter must have less (not none, just less) agency than the former.

You shouldn't have to ignore the mechanic, especially when the system would really like you to use it. 1e was a toolbox, but 2e is clearly becoming something else, and it's OK to not enjoy that, and you might be happier if you found something that synced better with how you like to play. This can even be as simple as just sticking to 1e.

If you have to fight the game to get the kind of game that you like to play, it's not creativity anymore, it's just busywork. With the immense amount of systems and playstyles that exist, you should be able to find one to your liking.

No one's a bad person for wanting to play a game in a way that a dev doesn't want them to, but sometimes it's just easier to play a different game.

>Pulling out core mechanics with setting implications

I'm not saying don't do it. Just understand, thats a Shit tone of extra over head and work to have to go through. Or you could just play something else. If you want something you do the fcuking work. don't come crying to tg and expect it to agree

Like what?
What is keeping you from taking motes of different sides and changing them up?
The open nature of the setting means you could reasonably create a heretofore unknown creature, or even variety of existing splat, and it would be entirely kosher in the realm of the game.
You don't like werewolves as antagonists? Here is a tribe of *insert near cousins* with their own set of *reflavored Gifts that mechanically are similar and thematically are different* instead.
Don't like vampires as stated? Here is an entirely different breed with it's own history and archetypes.
Seriously, I'm sorta confused about your quarrel when it feels like some familiarity with the system and some personal creativity is what is called for.

Roofies aren't rapey when self-medicated.

>user please put this into your drink, so you'll pass out and I can fornicate all over your face, without your knowledge

try again Broke Turner

>Princess: The Hopeful ?

It told you how your character should feel, but had no actual systems in place to encourage emotional weight to it, which is what leads to Vampion style play. Your character has no compunction against or reason NOT to just go ripping criminals arms off. And oWoD *tried* to have emotionally resonant mechanics--again, there were stats like Self-Control, Courage, Angst, Rage, Willpower, Pathos, etcetera--it just didn't know how to do anything with them besides have them.

You can tweak the game all you want. Just don't bitch and moan that you have to tweak it. Again, you're complaining that the game doesn't do a thing you want it to do but that it doesn't have any interest in being.

What are you even going on about? You realize you're not supposed to fuss over every little thing when making NPCs, right?

2e is just as much of a toolbox. You just seem confused about what "Toolbox" means. It doesn't mean that this game is GURPS.
It means that if you want to play Demon as Jason Bourne you can, or you could play it like Tinker Tailor Soldier Spy. It means that if you dont' want Demons to exist, they don't. It means that if everything Supernatural is actually Faeries, then it is. It means that if you don't want any supernatural societies, there aren't any. If you want a big conspiracy of all the heads of all the Supernatural groups getting together, then you can have that.

It does not however mean that the game is GURPS.

So one of my mage awakening players want to join the guardians of the veil. So far i handwave them because i dont understand laberynths but now im gonna have to put spotlight on them.

Does wod have any sourcebook for human cults ala wod mafia or 13 precint? I dont know anything about real life non magical cults and my only idea is CoC cannon fodder cultist.

Where i could get more info on them?

I think he means if you roofie yourself and jerk off?

If someone wants "traditional" Werewolves, really they should use Hunter. Or Wolfblooded. Or simply use only certain aspects of the Werewolf template (why is this guy talking about Gifts anyway? Lon Chaney didn't have those).

Hell, Demon's STG tells you how to use Werewolves/Vampires/Prometheans/Mages in your Demon game using only Demon mechanics.

>2e is just as much of a toolbox

The tight, intricate storytelling mechanics of games that 2e takes a page from have a tendency to clash with the modular thematic and mechanical style of 1e's design philosophy. While 2e's ruleset makes a decent compromise between the two, it has intentially eased up on some of the last edition's toolbox nature in order to provide the "emotional weight and meaningfulness" you prefer. Toolboxes and narrative mechanics don't play well together without a lot of effort to keep their natures in balance.

It's still a toolbox in many ways, and the game's never been anywhere near GURPS, but there's a clear step toward a more focused setting and style of storytelling gameplay in CofD 2e that the designers of 1e never took because of the circumstances of that edition's development.

>I think he means if you roofie yourself and jerk off?
user please

>It means that if everything Supernatural is actually Faeries, then it is.
um no. thats not a toolbox thats just you randomly rewriting their setting. anyone can do that with any game.

> How many alt d&d settings are there?

a shit ton, every game is a tool box. because all tabletops can be modified on the fly. You can't do that with videogames.

If St is writing the world and running the game, he could do whatever the fucks he wants. user doesn't have to play it. As long as the ST is up from about it. There's no problem

Except the kiss isn't rape and only an autistic virgin would equate the two?

Do you just fundamentally misunderstand what it is that makes rape horrible and causes victims to kill themselves?

The kiss doesn't pervert a basic human desire into a source of fear and shame, it doesn't cripple the victims ability to create meaningful relationships by giving them fear of intimacy, it doesn't cause months of terrifying uncertainty about being pregnant or infected with diseases that can mean never being able to find a significant other.
The kiss has none of the consequences of being a rape victim, the similarities are solely aesthetic.

And yes, the Vampire bite has always been sexual in fiction, but unironically implying that being the victim of the kiss is even remotely equitable to rape is entirely wrong.

>Like what?

Like say a mage of the local consilium who is a lich but manages to steal one soul from a tourist in a tourist city so he doesnt stand out.

He is part of the ladder but doesnt do much beside managing his ilegal bussiness and enjoy inmortality. He doesnt care about mysteries so he rarely if ever comes into conflict with other mage so he never under scrutiny but as he sell good luck charms to the hierarch (melancholy carnival) so they dont look to close into him either.

A vidantus arrow who broke an oath by avenging his death husband and became a vidantus and joined the free council. He is apathic and cant seem to care about much just going through the motions but his "lack of caring" couple by him being the head of the free council makes him politically volatile

Basically a mages without obsessions.

>or infected with diseases that can mean never being able to find a significant other.

I am pretty sure you can get an blood transferable disease from the feeding.

A werewolf movie buff who loves the golden age of Hollywood monster movies, he cries everytime he sees The Wolfman because he knows he'll never live in a world where he isn't scheduled to hunt down a rogue colostomy bag spirit who had been killing people on the local hospital in a week.

So can you from a blood transfusion, but the horror of that isn't rooted in the event itself.

Not him, and while I'd otherwise agree with you, but...
>kiss doesn't pervert a basic human desire
Sure it does. While simply biting and taking blood from a mortal is a rather mechanical act, the supernatural compunction to provide pleasure is in of itself a change, or perversion, of otherwise natural reaction.

That being said, while referencing the consequences of rape is one thing, if we look at it from a form of consent, then, sure, the Kiss would be non-consent. Unless you say that applying a Swooning condition while feeding non-violently (Blood and Smoke p. 95) is somehow consensual, which is... an odd thing to say, i suppose.

"It could all be so simple, Brendan."

"You know, he's never in control of when he changes, and he still ends up killing people that he loves. I'm not entirely sure why---"

"You didn't get sprayed with the essence of shit, Brendan! You don't even know what that tastes like!"

What's wrong with Vampion style play?

You know, all this arguing over themes and play styles has got me wanting to run a Vampions-styled 1e game just to piss you guys off.

These threads are so full of close-minded autism it's become hilarious. You're all acting worse than pic related, which is funny to me.

But at least the majority of this thread turned on Martin Ericsson and see him for the worthless jackoff oWoD fanboy he is.

You see, it is simply not "emotionally meaningful" to Celerity your enemies into orbit.

Also huh, what was the GET? I bet it was terrible! Let's find out!

Consent is an accidental aspect of both actions.

You can consent to a fight in the form of an mma fight, but being mugged isn't equivalent to being raped.
You can consent to someone using your credit card, having your identity stolen isn't rape.

The fact that the kiss has no meaningful, persistent injury to the victim means it isn't even in the same ballpark as rape.

>has got me wanting to run a Vampions-styled 1e game just to piss you guys off.

Carmilla, why would that piss me off if I'm not actually in it? Just run something you like, who gives a fuck about whether you're doing it to spite people. That's petty shit. People on the internet don't matter.

Since when did RPG's have to be emotionally meaningful? What the fuck is this bullshit?

That's the one thing I never understood about the WoD/CofD fandom. The settings were good up to a point until a certain edition ruined the settings (Revised for WoD, 2e for CofD) but the fans were always the worst.

And now the IP is in the hands of the worst stereotypical WoD fanboy ever. Pic related.

At least it's not 300 posts of people arguing over which version of Mage is better.

True, I am glad those arguments are gone for now.

>You see, it is simply not "emotionally meaningful" to Celerity your enemies into orbit

Seems someone never experienced emotionally meaningful fun.

>emotionally meaningful
>fun

Pick one

>Martin Ericsson
Who?

I'm thinking of running a core game on Halloween. Random guy gets drawn into a dark god manifesting on Earth. Now, I'm going to use a Mage with beefy Attributes for the dark god, but how much should I give it sphereswise?

The current head developer of oWoD and head honcho at White Wolf. Works for Paradox Interactive, looks like a Goth Steven Segal, we all call him "Dracula" around here, which in my opinion, is an insult to Dracula.

Known for his rampant WoD fanboyism, his disdain for CofD, and being a generally unpleasant edgelord douchebag.

The fuckers on the internet really don't matter, but I dislike them anyway.

People like Martin Ericsson, Justin Achilli, and the other thematic purists make me ashamed of liking WoD and CofD at times.

Uhmmm no? Why not both? Is the idea of emotionally meaningful fun so hard to grasp under all that black rimmel?