MTG EDH/COMMANDER GENERAL

Yes... yes I did.

I'm sorry guys. It's just a lot of prethure to pleathe everyone. I hope you can forgive me.

>partner
can we talk about partner? I want to talk about partner

I'll start by saying that I don't know what your local playgroup or edh meta is and I also don't care at all

but I view the essence (or spirit, if you will) of the format as being inherently tied to deckbuilding. more specifically, that the deck you build should have at its center your general, and the pieces of your deck, its strategy, perhaps if you're the kind of autistic tard I like to play with, even its flavor, should revolve around the commander

mostly by this I mean mechanically. if you have a goodstuff deck you're a plebeian. I don't give a fuck if you win 100 games out of 100

so partner comes along and all of a sudden deckbuilding options for obscure color pairings absolutely explode. are any of the individual effects "good enough" on their own?

let me stop you right now: good enough does not exist. if you have a quality or power threshold, you should play competitive constructed. there's nothing wrong with being a spike, and there's nothing wrong with being a spike who plays edh and builds spikey edh decks

but if you take the format seriously you're only hurting yourself. it's like wondering why it feels weird and uncomfortable to put on (your undergarment of choice): it wasn't fucking made for you. be happy with whatever spikey shit you like to play with. bitch not at things which do not concern you

so partner: I feel like everyone is looking at it the wrong way. you shouldn't try and think of them as two complete pieces, like the halves of a two card combo. that's not what partner is for. partner is for people who look at suboptimal cards and see them as a challenge, not a hindrance. partner is for people who want to know what peanut butter and chocolate taste like together, or people who want to know what peanut butter and salmon taste like together, not for people who want to make sure their peanut butter is organic, their chocolate free trade, their salmon sustainably farmed

I always have to stop myself from being a petty douche when I run into someone using a general that I use.

>oh, he runs that card? What a pleb.

>At Least It's Better Than Partner Edition
Are we really that triggered that we didn't get another fucking power leap on the order of Prossh, Derevi, etc.?

Yes.

I'm triggered I didn't get Urza and some other titans.

>if you have a goodstuff deck you're a plebeian. I don't give a fuck if you win 100 games out of 100

I too often see people being fast and loose with their definition of good stuff. With too many people that just means "deck that beat me."

So what you're saying is that Partners that don't combo are for goodstuff plebians.

Would you like it if from now on every Commander preconstructed deck came with a Partner commander?

Nobody wanted that power leap. But we also didn't want the shit show that was partner. There has to be some middle ground here.

No, they should forget the mechanic ever existed.

Nah, we're spoiled. I'm brainstorming around some partner combos and it's fine. Not very powerful but not particularly weak either.

I'm happy it's shit. I was worried it was going to be some degenerate nonsense, and instead, I got a bunch of french vanilla losers with maybe 3 playable options. Really, the kentaro comparison is apt, because at least Kentaro can hit his colours, unlike whatever 4c abomination people think they're going to build.

Why not?

Fuck that, would have rather seen secondary commanders with two colors in the casting cost, and the two other as hybrid for an activated ability.

fuck sustainable salmon

as I've already said synergy is important, if not the absolute core of edh

but edh isn't about having things handed to you, either. it has turned into that lately, as legendary creatures are designed now with at least some small nod to the format. but everybody looks at oloro and nekusar and ezuri 2 and what have you and has the exact same "oh alright that's the kind of deck you make with this" thought

and there's nothing wrong with that, because those things are often fun, unless they're oloro

but that's not what partner is about. partner isn't about looking at these cards and thinking "oh that's what you do with this" (reyhan and ishai being the notable exceptions; I'm sure there's one or two other obvious combinations), they're for putting together two wildly different pieces which are almost certainly not "good enough" on their own, and possibly not "good enough" together, and seeing what kind of insane nonsensical garbage you can make out of them

partner is about taking two things that have no business being together and finding out they're fucking perfect for each other; and failing that, it's about taking two things that have no business being together and smashing them together into a horrifying misshapen sin against deckbuilding, and feeling proud about it as you sit down and shuffle up

if that sounds like bullshit, that's fine. partner isn't for you. you can keep playing derevi with spike lee and worrying about doing the right thing

I'm going to be over here doing something only I think is interesting with cards that are definitely worse than my other options. why? because they fucking made partner for people like me

Maybe not forever or anything crazy.
partner really only has room for five more cards anyway.

They probably will make at least 1 per deck whether it turns out to be a commercial success or not.

I mostly just don't like the way they handled the four color general thing all together. I was just largely disappointed and that could be closing my perception.

Honestly some of them aren't that bad, and tweaked a little could be decent single commanders. I just dislike the whole idea of the two commander thing.

I still dislike the planeswalker commanders too, so take it as you will.

>The design team knew they could design three-color legendary creatures. Two of the previous Commander decks had been built around them. To make them have a four-color identity, all they would need to do was have an off-color activation using the fourth color. There are ideas that sound interesting in concept up until you actually design cards—this idea falls into that bucket.

>Imagine a red-green creature with stats and abilities that overlap red and green (like a 4/4 trampler). Then imagine an activation using a different hybrid activation, like a white-black activation that gives the creature lifelink until end of turn. This execution had a few problems. First, while the first creature usually turned out okay, further designs got harder and harder as you used up the small amount of hybrid design space between the two colors. Second, color identity is already a little tricky, and hybrid mana made it a lot more confusing when we did testing.

Sure, just tack on partner to the weak ones. Lord knows each commander product has a few weak legendaries.

that's just the sort of thing a goodstuff plebeian would say

I don't begrudge you your lack of vision. but don't make the mistake of thinking that because you think something is shit means everyone thinks something is shit

>but don't make the mistake of thinking that because you think something is shit means everyone thinks something is shit
Who cares. If something doesn't pass the "sight" test, usually it's more underwhelming than you would expect. For example, how do you feel about Mazirek?

>underwhelming
this is a word I have never used

what's your question? If you're asking if I like him, the answer is no. if you're asking if I think he's usable, fun, or good, the answer is I don't know and I won't ever find out because he doesn't appeal to me in the slightest

OK seriously what the FUCK is going on in this card's art

Its a blast of fire and energy breaking through what it looks like a barrier on some dark stronghold.

But that's not entirely true.
>another set of allied partners
>two sets of mono colored partners
>Maybe shard and wedge partners
>additional partners in any given color or combination of colors that do different things.

So really, its 15+.

Personally, I'd really like more partners down the road. Maybe we could get some that range from 'Huh, not awful ' to 'Wow, that's 95% playable on it's own'

The point was, when subjected to the "sight" test, Mazirek doesn't pass. This is despite being a relatively powerful combo general in productive colours. The reason it doesn't pass the "sight" test is because it doesn't have enough toughness to eat a bolt, and doesn't have any built in protection.

Why is all this relevant? Because this is a general people build suboptimally for fun just to have access to colours as well as a moderately spikey general for goodstuff style decks. Is it bad? No, not really, it's just underwhelming unless you have a very specific set up, like almost every single partner in combination. Partners exist exclusively to give players access to more colours with garbage french-vanilla legendaries. It doesn't matter how pretentious your wank, or purple your rhetoric, the point is, if they're worse than Mazirek, they don't deserve a slot in a deck or a dedicated build. Design space is fluid enough to create consistently compelling products, and all the partner mechanic enables is Wizards to put in half as much effort in all future sets, which is what people were mad about in the first place.

Someone tried to counter your energy vortex with a wall but you overmastered it.

Stronghold was 4 years earlier than that

It's a blast of lava puncturing through a magic barrier bitch, you got a problem with Anthony Fucking Waters?

Looks to me like a weird dragon frog that's also the sky for a sand-dune pirate ship giving stained glass-birth to a giant worm tounge.

>'Wow, that's 95% playable on it's own'

You would never not choose to play those with a partner.

OK seriously what the FUCK is going on in this card's art

Hey fa/tg/uys I play a lot of really tuned commander and looking to take a step back and build a more normal commander deck, what's your favorite middle power level commander?

>or purple your rhetoric
it's nice to know one's work is appreciated

>the point is, if they're worse than Mazirek, they don't deserve a slot in a deck or a dedicated build

I don't believe we understand each other. which is fine. we're on opposite sides of the gulf here. this is a product that appeals to me and does not appeal to me

but it appeals to me. it isn't useless or garbage by virtue of appealing to me, and perhaps even one or more other people

I don't have a sight test, this concept is foreign to me. I don't run generals for their colors, because that's pleb shit. I would only run mazirek in a deck designed to make people sacrifice things while also generating tokens. I couldn't give less of a rat's ass if mazirek dies to bolt. if you play bolt in edh and you've got it in your hand when I cast mazirek, you got me buddy, you deserve it

A middle eastern merchant had a dream about a spirit dragon, and is upset when he realized that it doesn't want to play magic with him. The dragon in the upper right represents the sun, and the man in the lower left represents the moon. Together, they're at odds, but apart, it's synchronicity and ephemeral, hence the smoke of remembrance from his hands.

That's Susan "I Made 'Three Wolves Howling at the Moon' Before It Was Cool" Van Camp for you.

>this is a product that appeals to me and does not appeal to me
does not appeal to you

disregard I suck cocks etc etc

Honestly, experiment kraj.
It's the perfect mix of flavor, weird interactions , and fun jank.

Reveka is a woman

Your sight test is awful.

>this entire post
Have you caught a case of the downs? Your opinion on quality commanders seems to be largely arbitrary and based on nothing to do with the format.

Personally, I could give a shit less about the 4c products. That cascade ogre looks fine, but in particular, the partner mechanic is vexing because it's either underpowered or overpowered by definition. There are two reasons to run them: access to extra colours, and synergy between the commanders. This particular batch lacks synergy because WotC was afraid of over-incentivizing two commanders. As a result, they create an underwhelming pile of schlock and hope people tentatively justify their poor design decisions. Look at Atraxa. She's a horrible mis-matched mess of improperly balanced bullshit, but she's still playable and interesting, despite the inherent disadvantage of her colours. The same cannot be said about the vast majority of partner commanders, particularly any that you would use in a 4c deck. Some of the tricolour combinations are fine, but why not just build a tricolour legend that says both things, instead of creating some meta-fuckery in an attempt to appear ahead of a non-existent curve?

There are plenty of middle ground commanders. Pick something that isn't overwhelming, but you can build around.

Ulasht the Hate Seed and new Sigarda are my mid level commanders of choice.

>largely arbitrary and based on nothing to do with the format
yes, it is, as is all other opinion

it's common for spikes to believe in their one true spike truth, and sometimes some of them are even accurate, but it isn't a complete understanding of the game or of the reasons people play it

>instead of creating some meta-fuckery in an attempt to appear ahead of a non-existent curve

because of the people who would rather them appear to be doing so, which they have deemed to be a larger or more important segment of their market share

Because I know a decidedly underwhelming commander is decidedly underwhelming? If he had power/toughness above curve, had built in protection, or was capable of functioning in a wide variety of decks, he would be better, but he's not. You're stuck building exactly one style of deck, and outside of comboing off late game, you're going to do fuck all for the first 6 or 7 turns unless you're incredibly lucky. You can build him for casual purposes, but that has little to do with him mechanically.

Anything can be card advantage, even one with nothing, if you're using a dredge deck anyway.

>or was capable of functioning in a wide variety of decks

this is the least edh sentiment anyone could possibly have

if your general fits into lots of other decks what's the fucking point

I need to play with partner first, but some have absolutely no synergy with each other, making the mix and match idea of them suck balls.

One of the ideas that is repeatedly being thrown around the boards is to make them all competent on their own merits by making them all follow some generic archetype.

Some had much more love put into them than others, and it shows.

>decidedly
Decidedly based solely on whether it can survive an awful not used card in edh and whether or not it had hexproof.

Fucking brilliant.

Pew pew, I spy a texas sharpshooter, and not even a good one. It's almost like you're approaching the argument, but you can't quite grasp what I'm talking about.

You're a narrow minded idiot with incredibly misinformed opinions. Tajic is an excellent example of a good legendary creature capable of being the commander in many different decks. Even Meren, who is often maligned for the sameness of her builds, can facilitate a lot of interesting things, but when people build her the same way, it fosters a lot of resentment.

No, if you had the ability to read, you would have included the part where I said above curve power/toughness, as well as build flexibility, IN ADDITION to the two points you trivialized.

>they don't deserve a slot in a deck or a dedicated build.

>My fun is the only fun.

why are spikes always angry when people tell them they're not having fun?

you're not having fun user. have you tried modern?

>The reason it doesn't pass the "sight" test is because it doesn't have enough toughness to eat a bolt, and doesn't have any built in protection.

This is what you said, moron.

Go to bed.

>lightning bolt
>awful not used card in edh
I think you can only pick one of those statements? Sure, it's not as popular as it is in other formats, but it's pretty much the gold standard for determining the basic viability of anything in an eternal format.

>I cannot read, but I must imply.

Ive played Voltron Infect, Derevi Stax, Hermit druid Sidisi, and Merlia Pod Karador. Whats the next step. How do I do more harm to the people around me?

Yes, and I clarified it much more in the following point you replied to, which implied you must have read at least part of it. Fuck off and go back to your general.

Why do new players who never post in this general insist on parroting nonsensical opinions despite evidence to the contrary?

Saskia group slug of course.

So does anyone have any particular builds in mind for new set? Boros affinity? Supergays prison? Ludevic Storm? Atraxa Hatebears???

>How do I do more harm
Burn

Bolt is straight up not good in commander.

I wish it was. I played it for so long trying to convince myself that it was fine. But it is just sub par (in commander).

Thats the funniest thing. Just started brewing with her yesterday and played a game with a proxy of her last night. Pretty spicy hitting someone with a double striking infecter and then it killing the other person I named. Felt good...

>Why do new players
>anyone who doesn't share my views must have been playing for a shorter amount of time than me!
edh was invented by judges who wanted something to do that wasn't hypercompetitive eternal formats

edh is where many players end up after they decide they don't want to be competitive. to imagine edh is a competitive format and thus subject to the views of a competitive mindset is silly and reflects a lack of understand of edh in general

>who never post in this general
besides your no true scottsman, this is an user imageboard, user

>insist on parroting nonsensical opinions
wait I'm confused, am I new and have never posted here, or am I posting things other people have posted?

You seem to think I'm someone else. I called you out on your stupid sight test. You claimed to have moved your goalposts, and I showed you what you actually wrote.

Congrats on your (you)s.

I'm going to ishai and reyhan my way into non-red non-artifact modular stupidity, and when that becomes boring I'm going to try out some kind of esper graveyard thing with silas and ravos

But what if I'm a Johnny who wants my shenanigans to go all according to keikaku, really really well, consistently

Super Gays mana ramp. I'm going to make them think it's group hug until it's to late for them to stop my pile of hot sticky mana killing them all.

Yes and no. If you had more than one bolt, it would be awesome. In general it determines the proper "curve" for optimal red scaling damage (RR for 6 damage, or RRR for 9 damage). But yes, it's not optimal.

You're going on and on about things being competitive, yet I haven't mentioned anything about building competitively. Simply put, some commanders are better than others, and most of the partner commanders are not good, even in tandem, which sets poor precedent.

If you don't understand that there is a mechanically sound method to constructing any commander deck or selecting a commander, there's no hope for you. I can only hope you'll fade into anonymity like Mogis/Brago Stax user.

Yet, you still failed to read the post you replied to. Go to bed user, you're drunk.

I've played it for a while and it's always been good for me

Okay, I think Mazirek isn't a great commander, but only because he relies on winning during the combat step. He's probably the best BG sacrifice commander, RIP Savra.

He doesn't pass the bolt test, but this isn't modern or legacy, and that isn't as relevant. His ability makes it worthwhile, even if he dies right after he hits the field.

If you're running Mazirek, you should have a sac outlet, tokens, and probably a Grave Pact on the field. When you cast him, you're probably going to overrun the fuck out of the table, or you have so much mana that you don't care about casting him again.

If you sacrifice a plant token with a Grave Pact out, congrats, he passes the bolt test.

I won't be making any new decks with these, but I was thinking about puttING some in the 99. Human soldier pseudo flying dude will go well in Sigarda.

>yet I haven't mentioned anything about building competitively

>Simply put, some commanders are better than others
>there is a mechanically sound method to constructing any commander deck or selecting a commander

user pls

Just stop dude.

You're making yourself look like an idiot.

Bolt in commander
>kill target utility creature/Gaddock Teeg
>kill the table with Reiterate and infinite mana
>blow the fuck out of the guy trying to win with lab man

It's not an all-star, but it goes up in value the more your meta relies on elves and hatebears.

Outside of being niche removal, it tended to be a dead draw for me.

This is a much more reasonable point. Thank you for being coherent user.

The reason Mazirek is underwhelming is more tied to the board state required to take advantage of him. Realistically, if he was 4 mana, he'd be perfect, but at 5, even if you're ramping hard, you aren't going to be able to combo off until t6 or 7 with a persist creature. Even grave pact curves into Mazirek, which means you're going to need solid token producers under 4cmc in order to actually benifit from his effects. Realistically, you run him in a reanimator build, and pull a giant token producer early, but this is still more magical christmasland than reality.

I like Mazirek. I've actually built Mazirek, and he's very underwhelming. The bolt test is the real kicker because you can't even swing with him without dropping some significant pieces on your board, which will almost certainly require tutors.

Says the user who can't read.

Gahiji

Literally any version of him- straight Naya tokens, political Gahiji with cards like Ghostly Prison and Rite of the Raging Storm, or midrange dragon variations all love to go full group slug

Honestly, I replaced it with Red Sun's Zenith and never looked back. Much less of a dud.

I'll agree that if Teeg is in your meta, bolt goes up in value.

I don't really consider it niche removal since lots of important creatures die to bolt

Depends on your meta I guess, In my grixis control deck it's been valuable against Azami, captain sisay, Animar, meren, Zada, and mizzix in my meta

If your meta is all bigger creatures then I could see it being a dead draw, though I also love hitting planeswalkers with it

>all the (You)s

I copy and pasted exactly what you wrote. Do I need to do that again. You can go right back up there and look yourself. Or would you like to move the goal posts some more first?

You tried to sound smart with a moronic test on how good a commander is and ended up sounding dumb. It happens.

>curve
>planeswalkers

you play some weird games of edh user, no wonder your opinions don't make any sense to me

which block was worse, theros or battle for zendikar?

see
and
Now fuck off and learn to read you cretin.

theros didnt kill my boy kozilek and put my meta through a solid month of me playing him exclusively in memoriam

Deck thinning is a meme and don't forget it.

Also do we know when the decklists will be available?

Red sun's zenith is playable I guess but I don't see how it compares to bolt, I don't like sorcery speed removal in general, paying at least 5 mana to kill something that doesn't die to bolt at sorcery speed is a pretty serious downgrade

Do you unironically not understand what "curving into something" refers to?

What do you mean about curve?

Also I don't see how any of those commanders are "weird" to play against, also planeswalkers are fairly common in edh

>The reason it doesn't pass the "sight" test is because it doesn't have enough toughness to eat a bolt, and doesn't have any built in protection.
>gets called out
>oh but I meant one other thing that I'm desperately trying to save face with but also really doesn't matter
>cretin

How autistic are you?

of course I know what curve means

I also know it means almost nothing in a 100 card singleton format

as the fuck if I'm going to run enough one and two drops to reliably curve out, that's a waste of my motherfucking time

planeswalkers are shit in edh, they're a great way to make everyone want to kill you that same turn