Warhammer 40,000 general

The only way to get more orders is running another commander.

You get 1 order per command squad, sadly the writer or whoever did not consider the fact that only 1 unit can give orders in the codex and only 1 at a time. Which is unfortunate considering you WILL be relying on those orders to get the dirty work done. Other than that they're fun and fast. You live fast and die fast, but can get shit done if you pick the right orders.

Assuming 8th is actually going to be a big rules overhaul, what are the most important changes you think need to happen?

>warlord traits gone
>random powers gone
>formations gone
>wound rolls/armour saves combined to one roll
>flyers/superheavies in apocalypse only (unlikely at this point I know, but still)

>been planning a game at my shop for over a week
>supposed to play against 1500pts of Daemons
>opponent shows up and we start getting set up
>he is unloading CWE
"I thought you played Daemons"
>"Thats what I wanted you to think"
"Mind if I change up my list a bit then, I wasn't expecting Eldar"
>"List tailoring is kind of cheap, you should just use what you usually bring"

First game against CWE, he brought a Wraith Host and I was expecting a multi-god Daemon CAD.
He wiped the floor with me, I switched the 4 Grav weapons (including the two combi) for Meltas for the Daemon match up and I stuck with it but his transports and WK were just too much.
I sure wish my collection was big enough to bring an entire different army, or even more options for my main one.

>List tailoring
You got what you deserved.

None of those things are going to happen since they all are (sadly) integrated parts of codexes. And they are not going to nuke 40k like they nuked WHFB since 40k is their flagship product and WHFB just needed to die due not selling.

I feel like we need to move away from this 'age of sigmar is op' thing
AoS is the TEQ of WFB

>Charges for assault are now 6+d6.

Suddenly the Assault phase is more reliable and can give more assault focused armies a second wind now that rolling a 2 is impossible.

All those other ones though? Yeah, those are in the game now, only thing they can do is limit their effect. That Pandora's box has been opened.

You list tailored, he played pretty fluffy eldar list and you got beat. Sorry son, no sympathies from here. You better design and/or play your army better from the start.

>flyers/superheavies in apocalypse only (unlikely at this point I know, but still)

The butthurt from the players determined to help GW kill the game would be enormous.

They don't care these things have no place in normal 40k.

>List tailoring
The only list tailoring I did was put an astrik next to my grav and say "incase of daemons switch Grav for Melta". He brought an entire different army than he said he would.

>fluffy eldar list
Oh I see, I am being trolled.

I play Blood Angels, guess I should just play a fluffy Ultramarine Battle Company or something.

>Been planning a game with friends.
>Knights guy says he'll be bringing Eldar
>Turn up at store all excited
"hey I've never seen your eldar. This should be really fun"
>Opens case to reveal Baronal Court
>"That's what I wanted you to think"
Me:
>Opens case to reveal melta tempestus
>"Yes"

So 5th edition?

you forgot the most important and game blancing rule
>being able to hit on 2's in combat
lets say if you are 3 or more WS than opponent you hit on 2's
like purestrain genestealers on guardsmen

>Melta Tempestus

So what? A bunch of 5-man teams falling from the sky with melta everywhere? How the hell did that work out against multiple knights?

Doing a big rules overhaul isn't the same as completely deleting the setting. It happened from 2nd->3rd and current rumours about the next edition have suggested it's going to be a big change. GW has also been avoiding the regular codex release cycle recently, with lots of small/side releases instead which would make sense if they're going to be incompatible with the next edition.

I feel the need to say that guy is FoS and nobody who plays a wraithhost in wave serpents is playing "fluffy eldar"

Just so I have more cred when I say 'swapsies' isn't a real thing.
Just be a man and use your grav list on daemons in future.

He lost 2 knights a turn every turn until he was tabled.
The heavy las teams and LR vanquishers probably helped, but you'be gotta bait those 3++'s somehow right?

Improve assault phase so that you get half a chance against shooty armies.

Remove or nerf overwatch.

Remove or nerf rapid fire. Seriously, so many damn units get to shoot twice, then again when they get attacked in melee?

Units that have a 3+ save don't get a 3++ unless there's a damn good reason for it (I'm looking at you, necrons).

That's still list tailoring.

At the risk of being suffering the verbal equivalent of being run out of town torch-and-pitchfork style, I would like to ask a question:

Why has the inclusion of gargantuan creatures and super-heavies worsened the game?

I mean, clearly some are bullshit, like the Wraithknight and the Ta'unar, but that's because they're notoriously undercosted, plus the current ruleset advantages MCs/GCs over vehicles.

But what makes GCs/SHs prima facie terrible? They're damaged in the same way as smaller models of their type, so as long as you have the weapons that can hurt them that's not a huge issue.

If it's that they're too durable then that's more an issue of cost than anything else - something that costs 500+ points should be pretty resilient.

I'd like to hear the arguments though - what makes Gargs and Super-Heavies bad for the game, assuming they were fairly costed?

Finally finished my army. It's style over comfort, mostly, but it should do good enough. I've been out of the game for almost 4 years now, so i'm really looking forward to getting facesmashed by some WAAC faggots.

I really like the Sisters of Silence, but I'd like to have a few more of mine helmeted.

Anyone know any good GW or 3rd party heads that would work well?

I don't have good enough sculpting skills to green stuff a helmet on top of the bald heads, and I don't think buying tons of ebay sisters just to get the one helmeted head per 5 is very cost efficient

yeah I'm kinda with you
GW has such a bad time balancing points between factions
>but maybe tat will never change, as long as multiple people write the codexes

Remove turn 1 deep strikes entirely from the game.

Bring back the possibilty to sweeping advance into another CC

Make super heavies lose D6+1 PC instead of D3 on destroyed! results

Make FMC have to do grounding checks on 4+

Make flyers able to shoot 2 weapons at full BS instead of 4

Make people able to chose what psychic powers that want and to pay for them (like it worked before basically)

Remove Warlord traits

nice models, terrible army composition

chaos bikers are such hype
>how do they compare to marine and ork bikers?

Impressive army you got there, love the paint job. It's quite strong at 1kpts, you shouldn't get steped on too hard.

Chaos bikers, Spawn, and havocs are pretty good though. especially nurgle. Though id go autocannons instead of missile launchers

I'd argue in favor of GMC/SH if more of them were like the Imperial Knights. Standard fare, not FW (no experience with any of those) a single knight can cost anywhere between 325-450 pts a pop, about the same as a small allied detachment while offering roughly similar amounts of firepower. For the Tempestus army I play around with from time to time even a single Knight can offer amazing amounts of fire support and can be an anchor to the rest of the force. It's still beatable as only 6 HP makes it essentially less vehicle and more MC, which ironically makes it better than all vehicles by simply ignoring the damage chart entirely. If more Large models ran similar to knights than you would get less issues against them.

Posted this in the old thread just as it died.

So i'm working towards a 1500 pts army and i know that the most competitive thing to go for is probably gladius dual demi.
But that just seems to much and i want to actually get casual matches.
Would you consider this list solid enough to not get its shit stomped all the time.
Probably rolling technomancy on at least one of the librarians.

Fist of Medusa Strike Force 1490 pts

Core
Armoured Task Force 655pts
Predators 145pts
Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons, Twin-linked Lascannon

Techmarine 140pts
Servo-harness, Bike, The Ironstone

Thunderfire Cannons 100pts

Vindicators 135pts
Vindicator, Siege Shield, Storm Bolter

Vindicators 135pts
Vindicator, Siege Shield, Storm Bolter

Command
Librarius Conclave 345pts
Librarian 125pts
Mastery Level 2,The Mindforge Stave, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 110pts
Mastery Level 2, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 110pts
Mastery Level 2, Space Marine Bike

Auxiliary
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force 490pts

Land Speeder 70pts
Multi-melta and Multi-melta

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 140pts
Grav-cannon and Grav-amp, Drop Pod

>Why has the inclusion of gargantuan creatures and super-heavies worsened the game?
Cause they were jammed into the game as an afterthough and the scope of the game was never supposed to handle engagements of that magnitude.
>But what makes GCs/SHs prima facie terrible? They're damaged in the same way as smaller models of their type, so as long as you have the weapons that can hurt them that's not a huge issue.
That is a huge issue though.
If you play Paper, Rock, sissors every player will come with at least two of those and be able to play. Throw in spock and god knows what other variations of the game people play these ways and suddenly you got army compositions that you just can't counter anymore unless you got a tailor made lists.
A player that never played against fliers but is transplanted into a meta with fliers is simply gonna be fucked.
>I'd like to hear the arguments though - what makes Gargs and Super-Heavies bad for the game, assuming they were fairly costed?
Super Heavies don't belong in a 28mm game. Put all the titans and super heavy tanks on the table if you play Epic. That's a game made for that.

A game that handles individual grot sized models and stuff like titans at the same time is bound to have some balancing issues.

Not to mention the logistics of simply playing a game with that points limit where using those things makes sense is going to take several hours, simply for resolving checks and moving models. 40ks rules are not exactly streamlined. Especially if you got horde armies like Nids, Orks or IG.

Adeptas Sororitas when? ;\

>plague marines are 31ppm
holy shit, i never realized.

They almost cost as much as my bullgryns.

Yo. Any news on when we're getting the Adeptas Sororitas update?

I'm buying the entire army.

Ork bikers are the stuff of nightmares.
You'd think they're not as tough as RW, but there are so much more of them that can shoot better than RW too. Ork player i usually go up against uses skilled rider orks that turbo boost and jink for 2+ cover.
I legit cannot bring enough Heavy Flamers.

They are 24ppm, the cost in his list includes the rhino.

Still overpriced as fuck

If they actually properly costed them, and included a point limit like 30k has, it would be okay.

Full Knights armies and the ilk don't work, because they're immune to the vast majority of the enemies units. They turn the game into "stand on objectives while I slaughter you."

>Heavy Flamer

Bring Wyverns

How the fuck do Harlequins kill Knight Titans and riptides anyway?

>Still overpriced as fuck
Eh, they're close enough to being viable that a well-done formation/detachment setup could make them viable.

They're just toughness 5 boyz stat line wise which isn't very impressive.

Their real strength comes from the bikes weapons, all Orks bikes are equipped with what is basically a twin-linked heavy bolter so for 180 points you can field 10 (bs2) heavy bolters for some serious dakka.

Fucking this.

Only half of my regular army is armed to take down Knights. Playing against a full Knights army has half of my dudes ducking for cover near objectives while the other half tries to focus fire them one by one. Of course they fail to take them all and then it's just a game of couting objective points while I'm being torn a new one. Shit isn't fun.

I think you can shve some points here and there
It doesn't seem to take advantage of the PotMS bubble enough.
how are you gonna use the bike libbys?
I like the vindicators though
>I'm just rockin 3 auto/las sponson dreads for my armoured task force

>well-done formation/detachment setup could make them viable.
>Implying GW will ever release a good CSM book ever again

NEVER EVER

2+ Jink tho.

>nids
>horde army
1-800-cmon.jaypheg

Grav becomes 30k rules
Stomp and D weapons toned down
Psychic phase un-fucked
Proper terrain rules
Vehicle damage table rework
Change back to no more than 50% of your units can start in reserve, barring special mission types
FMC need grounding test after a unit hits them, not at the end of the turn.
MAKE LAND RAIDERS GREAT AGAIN
More infantry varieties, such as monstrous

>Grav spam
>Librarius
No
Take some plasmas in the pods, have one pod be melta guns. Put your librarians in the pods, use powers to supplement your attack power.
With the points saved, give your techmarine a conversion beamer and maybe some servitors to help repair your guys.

Then use the fist of medusa detachment instead, to give all your models within 12 of an IC +1 FNP and power of the machine spirit. Leftover points can be more marines.

Why are you running two vindicators when you could have a squadron of three and benefit form the squadron bonus ?

Let me tell you, if not taken care of turn 1 that apocalyptic S10 AP2 cover ignoring blast can win you games by itself.

>riptides
Harlequin kisses from that ID, Shadow seer psychic fuckery (mirror of minds, psychic shriek, laugh of sorrows).
>knight titans
Harlequins caress, automatic glance on a 6.

hahahaha gr8 b8m8 8/8

the Wyvern ignores your cover save, but it still wounds on a 5+ re-rollable. For the low, low price of 55pts per tank you to can invalidate any infantry based army!

Wyverns ignore cover saves.

Wyverns ignore cover saves

Examining special sniper teams makes me hatr Ratlings more. Sure theyre BS4 with stealth but 6 scoring bodies for 36 points seems amazing to me. Am I just retarded?

I agree with the digits
fist of medusa is the best way (with a stormlance)

Ratlings are cheaper per sniper as well as being better shots.

>mfw playing 4 of them in The Purge detachment.

6 point difference for 3 plus 3 more "wounds"

So there's fuck all going on?

But the psychic phase is almost perfect. They just need to cap Deny the Witch dice, unfuck Conjurations, and do some minor rebalancing throughout the rest (improve most Witchfires, ITC Invisibility, cap all rerollable saves to fail the reroll on a 4+).

February probably.

2 Bloodthrones?

Posting for a friend who wants some critique. I'm pretty sure he wanted to attach Grim to the Terminators, but I'm not sure how he wants to get them into battle.

Army - Space Marines
Black Templars Chapter Doctrine

+ HQ +
High Chaplain Grimaldus - 150pts
Servitors give FnP 6" for 15pts each

+Troops +
Crusader Squad #1 - 184pts
6 Initiates + 6 Neophytes
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

Crusader Squad #2 - 184pts
6 Initiates + 6 Neophytes
Power Fist, Plasma Pistol

Crusader Squad #3 - 70pts
5 Initiates
Plasma Gun 15pts, Missile Launcher 15pts
Dedicated transport Rhino, 45pts
Dozer Blade, Storm Bolter
/155pts

+ Fast Attack +
Bike Squad - 103pts
2x Grav/Meltas
1x Combi Grav/Melta

+ Elites +
Assault Terminators - 225pts
5x Hammers & Shield pairs

997
/1000

That's still 6 points, 12 if you want 6 snipers who will, again, perform better than their guard counterparts.
Any weapon capable of reaching them in the back is going to wound on 2s anyway so stealth is appreciated and the ability to shoot and run is unique to them.

It depends what you're looking for in a unit.

A ton of SH/GCs are just untouchable, overpowered all-comers that can answer basically whatever is thrown at them. They can delete infantry, MCs, and vehicles with D weapons in one or two goes. They make whole swathes of units entirely worthless, and can also serve as Swiss Army units:

SHs are fast, durable, killy, and frequently just a no-brainer purchase. They often remove the risk of careful role or target choice.

Additionally, besides just wiping out Your Dudes sans effort before they get to do anything, several armies simply don't have any answer to SH/GCs, especially after the grenade FAQ that allows some WAAC shitters to pretend Melta Bombs are thrown rather than planted, further reducing the usefulness of infantry. Orks, Tyranids, & DE have little or no answer to invulnerable rampaging monstrosities, in many cases even if they DO list tailor.

From a fluffier perspective, they take focus away from small "infantry & vehicle"-level engagements by just being huge-ass showstoppers. Galaxy-famous Herfus Derpnut, hero of countless engagements with full honors & legendary stories, just gets turned into another mook among less-impressive mooks besides striding god-machines buildings-tall.

Did some changes, removed the "spam" of 3 grav cannons.
Nurfed the libs to get some more points and managed to squeeze in 3 vindicators in one squad.
I was gonna use the librarians to support the tanks and spread out the Power of the machine spirit bubble.

Fist of Medusa Strike Force 1490pts

Core 770pts
Armoured Task Force 770pts
Predators 120pts
Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons

Predators 120pts
Autocannon, Dozer Blade, Lascannon sponsons

Techmarine 140pts
Servo-harness , Space Marine Bike , The Ironstone

Vindicators 390pts
Vindicator with Siege Shield x3

Command 295pts
Librarius Conclave 295pts
Librarian 125pts
Mastery Level 2, The Mindforge Stave, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 85pts
Mastery Level 1, Space Marine Bike

Librarian 85pts
Mastery Level 1, Space Marine Bike

Auxiliary
Skyhammer Orbital Strike Force 425pts

Land Speeder 70pts
Multi-melta x 2

Tactical Squad 115pts
Meltagun, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 120pts
Plasma Gun, Drop Pod

Tactical Squad 120pts
Plasma Gun, Drop Pod

bahahaha niceee

Like the 3+ armor isn't almost as good

Part of the problem is that they ignore the vehicle damage table. A Leman Russ is terrifying, but it can be shaken, stunned, immobilized, flanked for rear armor, lose weapons, or even explode. It also can only get cover saves and maybe an invulnerable save.

A Riptide, despite being a vehicle with clear vulnerable servos, ammo packs, and a pilot, cannot be shaken, cannot be stunned, cannot be flanked, cannot be immobilized, will never lose more than 1 wound to any given attack, and will always fight at full strength until taking that final wound. It also can get armor saves, cover saves, invulnerable saves, AND it can get feel no pain. Now add a bunch of squadmates to take wounds for each other and you got a crazy powerful force.

Its basically "I want a vehicle but I don't want any of the disadvantages of a vehicle"

> SH/GK
>Riptide

Nice.

Why are the vanilla SM terminator models so shit? Every other terminator kit is nice except for these ones which look like they came straight out of AOBR. The leg-chest ratio looks stupid too.

JUST

>tfw you're so upset about tau you see riptides everywhere

Will GW ever go digital only with their codexes so they can basically release patches for balance changes? I imagine they make quite a bit of money from codexes, but a digital only copy at half the price would probably stil make them a fucker ton.

>Stormsurge
Mega-Riptide!
>Tau'Nar
Artillery Riptide!

Sanctioned abhumans are still mutants yo. Fuck that heresey.

For quick patches they need metrics, which means big data, which means online games.
And once it's an online game, it's done.

Can't balance games quickly based only on griping alone.

If balance was really a priority they could already do it via errata pdfs.

Plasma pistols are horrible.
First 2 Crusader squads need upgrades on the initiates.
The third squad needs to not mix weapons.
The Rhino should be given to a squad that wants to get into melee.
The bike squad needs to decide the loadout in case Grav puts it over 1k pts.
Assault Termies will spend the whole game chasing smoke, they have no place on this list and should be replaced by a big, choppy crusader squad or another bike squad.
Mixing plasma

>digital only

I hope to god not. I don't own a smartphone and like owning nice books. The shift to full-colour hardbacks for Codexes was a wonderful decision IMO.

switch the bikes for ml2 and put the libs in the pods to get the 5+ fnp to the tac squads
you dont need the stave or dozer blades on the preds
ass a combi melta on that melta squad

So the real issue with GK/SH is that they can pretty much take on anything and can effectively render a TAC list useless due to resting on one end of the extreme.

For the first, being able to take on a variety of different targets isn't itself bad, the issue is that if you want such flexibility you've got to pay for it. A Wraithknight can take on deathstars, other super-heavies, vehicles, infantry, you name it, but it's hard to argue that it's cost represents this.

For the second, how is facing an army entirely composed of IKs that much different from facing, say, an entire army of land raiders? Or an IG armoured company? Both also rest on that far extreme of presenting nothing but armoured targets, making life difficult for an army that's taken a balance of both anti-infantry and anti-vehicle units.

Thank you for the responses thus far, they have been illuminating.

Anyone playing any games or working on some new models this weekend?

Whats the plan? Hows it going?

I get to try my Death Company BA w/ Dreads against Grey Knights tonight. Playing 1250pt Maelstrom.
Pretty hyped.

>Anyone playing any games or working on some new models this weekend?
In a couple hours I am heading to the shop with my DA and hopefully catching a pickup game.

In the mean time I am working on my Demi/Battle Company. 30 Tacs down, 6 more to go. Almost done with 5 Devs and I have some assault marines and a Jump Chap on the way. Just need two more Rhinos or 5 more Razorbacks to go MSU LBSF

has the painting guide been scanned yet?

>Anyone playing any games

Taking my 1000pts of Necrons against some Sisters of Battle tomorrow.
Have never really looked into SoB so I am just expecting a ton of fire and melta.
My plan is to put my HQs and Immortals in their Night Scythe, send my two Ghost Arks out with their warriors and hopefully contest fair amount of objectives while the Annihilation Barges harass other armor.

By Death Company BA do you mean all DC? The absolute madman

For what I'm working on with my new job I've been able to get all the 40k stuff I've wanted but now I'm sitting in a pile of 80 ish unpainted miniatures send help and I only game like twice a month because GW doesn't want to put a store in the middle of bumfuck nowhere Ontario

Here is my first ever Tyranid list. Wanted to slot as much spores as possible, and to not rely too much on shooting. Could you gents rate it, pretty please ?

Tyranids - 1492 pts

HQ

Hive Tyrant (1) - 320pts
Wings, Electroshock grubs, Scything talons, Rending claws,Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration, Old Adversary, Hive Commander

Troops

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Mucolid Spore Cluster (3) - 45pts

Genestealer Brood (6) - 225pts
1 Broodlord: Psyker (The Horror), Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration
5 Genestealers : Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands

Hormagaunt Brood (10) - 90pts
Toxin Sacs, Adrenal glands

Ripper Swarm Brood (8) - 232pts
Adrenal glands, Toxin Sacs, Spinefists, Deep Strike

Fast Attack

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Spore Mine Cluster (6) - 30pts

Heavy

Trygon Prime (1) - 300pts
2 Scything talonss, Toxin sacs, Acid blood, Adrenal glands, Regeneration

Sporocyst (1) - 100pts
Five barbed stranglers

Hive Commander will be used either on a Mucolid unit, or on the hormagaunts.

Rippers will deepstrike, then shoot and act as a pain in the ass of wathever heavy weapons team could be found accross the board.

Trygon prime will be used as a synapse support and potential tank buster. Could also help to deploy something else through his tunnel, although I don't know what yet. Maybe Stealers ?

I hope to use the spores do distract the opponent enough for me to move around without too much pressure, and the Sporocyst will resplenish some spores if it survives long enough to do so, while attracting some more ennemy fire.

>I play fluffy guard!
How's that wyvern spam backed up by melta vets going, user?

let me help you out
HFD
3 tyrants
-wings, 2 TL devourers w/ brainleech, electroshock grubs
3 mucolids

CAD
2 flyrants
-same as above
2 muccolids

thats 1275

then add crones or mawlocs to taste
>enemy's tears