HH Characters Making Dumb Choices

Nah, I bet Daemon Magnus just wants to replace Tzeentch.

Lorgar, if Emps didn't went autistic over the worship, destroyed the great city, and had him and his Legion kneel before Himself and Ultramarines that destroyed the city.

Mortarion hates his patron deity too. He wasn't even really manipulated into service, just tortured until he gave up.

Fulgrim had no idea what that sword was or what it did.

Ferrus and all the Primarchs were taught to never ever trust ayy lmaos by the Emperor.

Fulgrim and Ferrus' fates are very well done in that that are perfect demonstrations of how the Emperor's arrogance and methodology were hugely flawed.

Almost all their falls were easily preventable. Mortarion and Horus are the only ones I see as destined for Chaos, Mortarion because he was just too fucked up, and Horus because he was an arrogant manbaby.

I feel like if Lorgar hadn't fallen and ruined everything we might have seen a very different Heresy, not about Chaos, but just about guys like Sanguinius and Khan disagreeing with the Emperor.

Lorgar was designed to be utterly loyal yes, and the destruction of the Perdect City was a retardness only the Emperor was capable of, but due to Lorgar's upbringing on Colshis with all the religious nutjobs there, there was no way for him to fit into his father's atheistic Imperium. And atheism was the most important thing for Emperor.

So, while loyal as fuck, Lorgar was definately not the most likely to stay loyal. Sooner or later he and the Word Bearers would have to suffer and shit would get ugly.

Wasn't magnus sharded though by the rubric? That's what I got from the Ahriman series, with Magnus sometimes trying to kill Ahriman and sometimes helping him.

Perturabo and Magnus

What about Konrad Curze?

>Mortarion and Horus are the only ones I see as destined for Chaos
u wot

horus required direct corruption to turn
mortarion was the only traitor who horus himself, with all the powers of chaos at his back, didn't think he could turn

the rest were going to fall one way or another.

>Horus because he was an arrogant

Having a little bit of self doubt about living up to your Godly father isn't being a manbaby

Curze was a complete madman from the very beggining. His fall was inevitable, one may say he was already fallen when the Emperor found him.

Mortarion's case was similar to Angron, if the Emperor treated them well at the very beggining, like he did with Corax or Lion, there would be no trouble, escpecially with Mortarion hatred towards magic. Horus was manipulated by Lorgar and Erebus, his fall wasn't his fault despite his flaws. Only later he accepted his destiny as Chosen of the Gods, but then, all Chaos primarchs embraced Chaos sooner or later.

>His fall was inevitable, one may say he was already fallen when the Emperor found him.

He was basically asking to be put down along the rest of his legion from the moment Nostramo was murder. His suicidal breakdown just happen to coincide with the Heresy.

But fuck morty. he knew about the golden throne and the webway project. He knew the emperor wanted to rid the imperium of warp and disassociate from it and let him have his way on nikea but that miserable bastard still said nah fuck you im going in deep

warp travel*

>Just as planned

In the grimdark future of the 41st millenia. The lore is itself at war with itself.

Curze was the only one with a valid reason, and the best view of the whole situation. The night lords these days are the (mostly) the most humanly relatable marines in 40k (except maybe salamanders)

Magnus. He only went over because the other option was let his entire Legion die. He himself was willing to give himself up, but his Legion wasn't.

I think Lorgar would've stayed loyal if Kor Phaeron and maybe Erebus were out of the picture, since they were the ones who lead Lorgar to find Chaos by saying "look how our Old Ways are similar to all these other religions that never could've made contact with eachother"

At the very least it would've delayed him finding Chaos long enough to where the Emperor might have been able to finish his Webway portal.

Yeah, Mortarion went a long with Horus because he was resentful of civilians running things, and he saw the rebellion as a way to cast away the old order.

How likely is it Fulgrim would've remained loyal if he didn't pick up the Laeran sword?

He would've definitely stayed loyalist if it wasn't for the corrupting influence of the laer sword. He was the ideal Primarch who served the emperor and he wouldn't have any personal reasons to join chaos like Mortarian did.

I think there are a few cases that show Fulgrim was seduced to Chaos, and that if certain events hadn't happened he would have remained loyal.

If the Emperor hadn't openly chastised Lorgar and his legion by blowing up a city that was considered their crown jewel I think Lorgar might have been able to resist the influences of Kor Phaeron and Erebus. Maybe his love for the Emperor would have won over his closeness with his lieutenants. Thus Horus wouldn't have fallen and the others with him.

I think most of the traitors would have stayed loyal if circumstances had been different. Angron and Curze were always loose cannons so they might have been problems later, but the others seemed decent. They just needed more support from daddy.

Yep he would likely have heeded eldrads warning and taken action

>Ancient seer of an alien species warns another civilization of impending doom
>Human ignores it
>It comes to pass
>Woooow fucking Eldar

Humans dindu nuffin.

You don't know much about Night Lords do you

Pretty much what I said. Lorgar's betreyal was caused by his upbringing on Colshis. If was found first like Horus and traveled the galaxy with the Emperor he would be so fucking mindlessly loyal it would put Dorn to shame

I think you guys are forgetting how Typhus fucked the entire Death Guard and Mortarion over. They ware pretty much forced to become Nurgle's cult Legion.

>HH is written to resemble a tragic story of ancient times
Well, it was supposed to be. But the quality is so inconsistent and the writing so asinine that it resembles the WWE more than ancient mythology.

>IMPERIAL TRUTH AS MY WITNESS, RUSS HAS BROKEN MAGNUS IN HALF

He had legit reasons to distrust the Emperor, but there's no really legit reasons to throw your lot in with Horus after he went full Chaos.

Really, Curze is just the most sympathetic Primarch, because he was broken. He was not fit for the position the Emperor put him in. He drew the shortest of short straws and nobody seemed to give a shit, and because they didn't give a shit, he fell.

I always thought that kneeling thing was stupid.
>Look Lorgar I'm not a God seriously
>Now watch me force 100k Astartes to bend the knee with my mind.

fuck eldars

So what you want about Lorgar but he was pretty much right at Monarchia and the Emperor shouldn't have done what he did.

>But Father, are immortal, all knowing, you guide thousands of ships through the void with your mind and have conquered countless worlds. You are a God

>My cities are the most loyal

Never tought of it that way.. that is freaking stupid..

If humans would trust every "vision" the Eldar share with us we would all be living on fringe worlds as cannon fodder, dying in trilions shielding them from any threats.

Agree with , meant for

>So what you want about Lorgar but he was pretty much right at Monarchia
Lorgar was right, period.
His fathers fedora "materialism is true, science rules and there's nothing it can't explain, there are no gods, spirits or souls" propaganda was utterly fake, and
>inb4 they aren't actually gods and daemons, just extra-dimensional energy constructs blablabla
Pic related

*and the whole galactic religions sharing the shame theology because they are actually grounded in something real, and faith is the biggest rallying banner that inspires the greatest deeds in history, both good and bad, was utterly correct.

>control f
>No serious mention of the khan

it's as if none of you remember the shape of the hunt.

We're basicaly talking about which traitor primach would be the most likley to have stayed loyal. Do you know something about Jagathai that neither we nor the Inquisition does?

It was fake, but it was faked for a purpose, and one that the Chaos gods feared: without access to humanity's widespread population and vulnerable psyche, they would be drastically reduced in power. Without warp-rifts being opened constantly by starships - if the Emperor's webway project had come to fruition - they would have lost huge numbers of opportunities to spill into the real world. With the proper control and soul-binding of psykers - and the dissolution of those unable to be controlled - the dark gods lose countless more opportunities.

Don't mistake the failure of the Great Crusade to utterly crush problems that had dogged mankind for millennia for failure overall. The purpose of the GC was to unite mankind: actually eliminating the problems it faced would take generations more even in ideal circumstances, but starting with the absolute destruction of those worlds and cultures which threatened the rule of order was the best start they could make.

That Lorgar, casting around for something to believe in because daddy was mean to him, found that his Chaos-worshipping world had been right about the existence of gods all along and was therefore "right" about the existence of divinity is immaterial. He believed the Emperor to be a god simply because he wanted to believe. If Chaos hadn't existed he'd probably be sucking Tyranid dick or worshipping a Necron kettle these days.

Determining the existence of a dataset and understanding its meaning are two different things: the Emperor was right to keep Chaos from his sons, because clearly they were fucking idiots.

All Lorgar ever wanted was the truth. He strongly believed that the ugliest truth is always better than the most beautyful lie.

>

>It was fake, but it was faked for a purpose
And Emps decided to chimp out on him for rightfully finding signs that contradicted him.

>He believed the Emperor to be a god simply because he wanted to believe.
Or because his entire life had been dominated by those facts, which he knew was right.
Remember, the first way he interacted with the Imperium was having prophetic dreams of basically Jesus coming down from the heavens. And that came to fruition.

>If Chaos hadn't existed he'd probably be sucking Tyranid dick or worshipping a Necron kettle these days.
a)Those 2 aren't the gods of a ton of human worlds in the galaxy.
b)E didn't deny they existed;

>the Emperor was right to keep Chaos from his sons, because clearly they were fucking idiots.
Ok, then ill be sure to deny drugs exist to my kid, and that everyone who uses drugs is just playing make-believe, and hope i will finish purging all the cartels in Latin America before a drug dealer or a stoner friend offers him something.

I agree with everything except for the last part. Emperor's attempt to convince humanity that there are no gods was his attempt to shield it from them. He knew of their corrupting power and that humans ware perfect fodder for them. Id humans suddenly learned about the Gods many of them would immiedately seek for power Chaos brings, thinking they are strong enough to control it. And since noone is, humanity's downfall and ultimate Chaos victory would happen much sooner.

He also knew daddy was a hypocritical psyker

Magnus from TTS had it right
"I'm not a god but you should all still treat me like one"

Alpharius and Omegon turning traitor because a bunch of Xenos showed them a movie

Magnus if Russ had followed Emps orders and brought the TS to Terra instead of being misled by Horus they would still be loyal

Russ really screw it up by not demanding Magnus to surrender over the vox instead of trying to use the suppose "spy" to get his message across. The thousand sons might have complain but Magnus was willing to face his punishment.

No Black Library screwed it up by making everyone involved an idiot.

It's fine that the Emperor sends Russ off to kill Magnus. That is perfectly in character for him. Why bother changing it when all it does is reduce everyone else into bubbling retards.

Simple. The Horus Heresy was decided even when it began, and some may say that even Horus did not want to make the decision to be the bad guy. Still, back when Imperial Truth was law and understood, Emps wasn't very happy with being the Emperor, and makes many decisions that many would find unsavory and bad enough to have him stripped of his position. That being said, he still knows he's the most qualified for it.

So yeah, Horus makes stupid decisions because timey wimey hijinks dictate that he had to have made those decisions. Emps does the same thing for the same reason.

Also, the Golden Throne is a time machine that allows Emps' consciousness to transcend time. Horus is jelly that he doesn't get to be a God like Emps, and starts the heresy to gain Godlike warp powers.

End of the HH: Emps wakes up while on the Golden Pot, and realizes that he is an actual God in flesh- Malal. His rage then infects Khornate berzerkers to Malal and they start killing Daemons and people alike, until eventually killing Daemons exclusively.

But I digress.

Angron would have died soon anyway. Hence why lorgar was rushing to exalt him to demon princehood

They are pretty human relatable in the ADB books is what the other user meant. Even the flaying and cruxifications seem like 'yeah that seems reasonable for them to do here, I get that'.

Typhus could only fuck them over because Mortarion had already pledged for Horse

That's one of the good things about Lorgar. He took steps to save his brother Angron.

>inb4 he turned him into a hellish abomination

At least it's more then what the Emperor did for him.