Hektor Heresy

On the nose is fine. But in the nose is too much.

In the nose is just fine if you're into that.

>That's just the Primarch. That they're black isn't really as stressed as with the Salamanders
Yeah but a primarch reflects his legion, and vice verse. There's a reason Vulkan's sons all end up coal black, and why Imperials Fists so often have white hair, and why Raven Guard all look like black metal guitarists. Geneseed affects appearance.

>How weird would it be if the space marines from a jungle feral world were white?
Not weird at all if their homeworld doesn't get a lot of ultra-violet. But saying that the dark skin is consistent with the setting described is a diversion from user's point that the SBs are very similar to the Salamanders.

>On the nose is fine. But in the nose is too much
Exactly, keep it modest.

I mostly agree with you, but changing yet another Legion drastically around could be a fucker. Besides, it's not about doing things different, just making things interesting. One of the facts of the original heresy is the Salamanders kinda just get, shafted? They don't show up much in the Heresy and are kinda left to the wayside. So yeah, SB aren't a font of creativity but they can be made interesting.

>Salamanders kinda just get, shafted
Yeah, the salamander's arch in the heresy storyline is... weird.

>Salamanders fight at Istvaan and Bad Things Happen.
>The legion is broken, remnants retreat to Noctourne or fight alongside the Iron Hands and the Raven Guard in the Shattered Legions warbands.
>Vulkan is captured by Curze, who stops to torture him for a couple months.
>Vulkan eventually takes advantage of Curze's arrogance to grab his hammer, a hammer whose in-built teleporter literally sends him HALWAYS ACROSS THE GALAXY to Maccrage.
>Vulkan, being a perpetual, and thus literally immortal, regenerates from his many wounds.
>Vulkan goes crazy, gets stabbed, and dies.
>Vulkan's terminator guard take him home to Noctourne and toss him into a lava flow
>Someone claiming to be him fights in the war of the Beast a thousand years later.
>8,000 years later they're just now getting back up to chapter strangth and have no canon sucessor chapters

wut

>One of the facts of the original heresy is the Salamanders kinda just get, shafted? They don't show up much in the Heresy and are kinda left to the wayside.
Yeah, well.... that's kinda what happens to the Scale Bearers, too. But it's probably better to take this up with Sneaky.

It'll be an absolute travesty if the SB don't get successors.

Agreed.

The books are dumb.

>Pick a Loyalist Legion. Write a critique.

The Steel Marshals seem fairly bland. There's nothing that really stands out about them, They are good with sieges, but nothing else has been written to really give them more flavor.

Way to pick the easy duckling out of the bunch buddy

Even though I agree totally

Hey someone's got to mention it eventually.

Do they have anything else to them?

Just had an idea for yet another roughrider regiment, this time traitor.

A regiment gets lost in the Warp while fighting Chaos on a planet and devote themselves to Khorne, who gifts them with possession and immortality.

Wait I'm confused. I thought chaos wasnt a big deal in real space until the Primarchs fucked everything up.

And even then they kept that shit super secret when they could, right?

This will be in the future, after the foundation of the Imperial Guard.

Ah gotchya

1d4chan.org/wiki/Legio_Maleficarum

I need names! Names for psi-titans!

Majestor Salem

Sure, why not.

Transcendus Inferium

Magnis Primordial

Summaton Phobos

Commedentus Anima

So Ive been reading up on this on 1d4chan, what are the Orks doing during all these happenings?

I think I get the third reference, but not the rest.

They're not all references. That's not really my thing, as you probably guessed by now. :P

Transcendent Flame, Great Primordial, Eater of Souls, all with a fucked up Latinization courtesy of a man who knows no Latin, lol.

I'll take Summaton Phobos.

Are you guys team Edward Blood Angels or Team Jacob [Spoiler]Space Wolves

I'm Team Yui

The same things Orks always do, Johnny.

Et Serae Deii

Hate's Song

Rumination of Mars

Desidiaii Umbrorus

Omedaron

Alemphidus Pax

Nunitus Armageddon

Erronus

I'm Team People Who Actually Get Shit Done.

Does Nunitus Armageddon involve nuns and the Apocalypse?

Give it a female princeps and a planetkiller and it could.

I already have a picky titan and it only likes pyromaniacs.

Cracius Angron

Antolichus Kerodon

Legion

Thaumael

Thaumastiel

Imperator Exorcisius

Frater Malfius

Rafael/Mikael/Gabriel

Metatron Primarus

Jihad Defiant

Silvered Crescent over Blackened Seas

Brightchalice

Paladín Gaston

Satana Rebuked

Molochbreaker

Gatewelder

Seventh Seal

Pale Horse

Lamb of the Emperor

A Tongue of Swords

Eyes of Flame

The Warp Shattered

EXCELSIOR

Tide Stemmer

Clarity's Bastion

Pride of Heaven

Wytcheater

Painted with Daemon Blood

Bane of Doombreed
Also, these guys are gonna be sooper secret like the Grey Knights, right?

>Also, these guys are gonna be sooper secret like the Grey Knights, right?
So secret that their base is in the Oort Cloud.

>Cracius Angron
Maaaayyyyybbbeeeee?
>Antolichus Kerodon
?
>Legion
kek
>Thaumael
Something about Kabbalah?
>Imperator Exorcisius
I already got an Imperator
>Frater Malfius
Brother something?
>Metatron Primarus
First Metatron best Metatron
>Jihad Defiant
I could use some Jihad.
>Silvered Crescent over Blackened Seas
>Brightchalice
What.
>Paladín Gaston
Gaston was a ranger.
>Satana Rebuked
>Molochbreaker
>Gatewelder
>Seventh Seal
>Pale Horse
>Lamb of the Emperor
>A Tongue of Swords
>Eyes of Flame
>The Warp Shattered
>EXCELSIOR
>Tide Stemmer
No.
>Clarity's Bastion
>Pride of Heaven
>Wytcheater
Eh...
>Painted with Daemon Blood
>Bane of Doombreed
kek

I think we need some more metal stuff in this, like steel or iron or adamantine or something.

Ferrus Harkorriad

Adamantine Besseer

>Harkorriad
>Besseer

I am not an imaginative person

Fine, some original names
Thunder of Steel
Equinox Absolutium

>I am not an imaginative person
I don't even know what I'm looking at. Were they a reference to something?

This is Zorg

Dune. House harkkonen are bad guys, bene gesserit are manipulative witches

I didn't even recognize the names. They'll do.

They're just names m8. Drop the autism and use the ones that you think are cool, don't think about them so hard. Not everyone is going to be a winner. These are only really supposed to be inspirations for better names anyway, were folks can mix and match for optimal naming.

Judea of Kalispell

Northern Lion

Great Gryphon

Lucifael ex Machina

Kaldor Agamemnon

Magnanimity Incarnate

Cleaver of Sinai

Chalice Sought

Charlemagne Adamantine

Bahamut Chiron

Shield of Jove

Jovian Flame

Worldcleanser

Lazarine Martyr

Fallen Witness

Templar

Holy Diver

Cruel Anonymity

Defender of Kaliban

The Good Book

Pleading Missive

Righteous Retort

Architect of Faith

Cannonite Cathedral

Furious Pilgrim

Forbidden Questions; Unbidden Answer

He Who Slew Leviathan
It Who Slew Ziz
She Who Slew Behemoth
We Who Slew The Dragon

Taintender

The Titan Formerly Known as Kingmaker

The Emperor's Hand

So National Novel Writing Month is coming up.

Should I partake, or get back to my promises of prose for HH already?

I believe someone out there wants mortal interactions still.

Write a novel about HH, problem solved.

Those that don't get used should be ship names, at the very least. The vast majority of these are golden.

Wait, we can't have The Litany of Litany's Litany?

Yup, heard it.

Nope, not going to change it unless somebody's got something better. When I took over writing for Tiran, he was defined as a guy who loved dinos, hated Orks, and got killed in the Heresy. I had to make something more of him than a one-shot, one dimensional character. So I rewrote everything with a story line that would hopefully get people invested and make him more than the dude who got killed early.

So I made him a man of principle, and a uniter of people.

The green armor and him being a black guy predate my changes, and to be honest, the majority of the complaints lodged are window dressings.

Also, I got rid of the jungle and he's in the plains now, because cavalry makes more sense in open terrain.

>Holy Diver

While we're going that direction, might as well add Painkiller to the list.
youtube.com/watch?v=UJ4Nel-aHZM

Okay, with this I have rounded out all thirteen and a half titans of the legion.
Well, Holy Diver has the word "holy" in it which is why I used it, but I guess painkiller is okay too because religion is the opiate of the masses.
youtube.com/watch?v=HadhQrPXenY

Great. Now you've got me thinking I should rename The Emperor's Shadow (flagship of the IR) to The Ænema...
youtube.com/watch?v=uCEeAn6_QJo

Cleaver of Sinai is on there twice

Time paradox

Holy shit, this Halloween scheme is fucking killing me.

...

So that's one off my list next is...

>Cyberzombies
>ALL the roughriders
>Demigryph riders
>Traitor dog riders
>Traitor robot riders (Transplanted from AS)
>Dino riders (No relation to scale bearers, also transplanted from AS)
>Literally Metal Gear
>Literally VOTOMS
>Nausicaa traitor guard (Transplanted from AS)
>Mistyfags btfo
>Space KKK (Kinda-sorta from AS but dating back to this)
>Space Civil War Union (From AS)
>Totally-not-Destiny voidfighters (Same story as Space KKK)
>Spanish tankers
>Traitor Phantom Roughriders

Spanish tankers. The Tiberon Armoured Hidalgos! Sharks of the Galaxy!

>When I took over writing for Tiran, he was defined as a guy who loved dinos, hated Orks, and got killed in the Heresy. I had to make something more of him than a one-shot, one dimensional character. So I rewrote everything with a story line that would hopefully get people invested and make him more than the dude who got killed early.
I'm a bit surprised to read this given that you insisted on keeping the Scale Bearers in the last cut (i.e. prior to your rewrite). Still, if your objective is to garner sympathy the complaints shouldn't be dismissed so quickly. If people see Tiran as "Vulkan clone with a sillier name", that is a barrier to investment.

OK, so I read over the page again and he doesn't come across as an important sympathetic character. Part of the problem is structure. For example, the Soliriens are introduced at the end of the third paragraph and come across as an afterthought, so his victory over them is under-cut from the start. The conclusion to that conflict is anti-climactic as well! So Tiran's great achievement is beating these random aliens that nobody cares about and he doesn't conclusively beat them... well, you can see why he's the last Primarch recovered in the 850s.

In terms of the principle, there's no great test. In terms of uniting the people, it's not a focus of his activity. He spends more time on rebuilding planets (like the War Scribes, and the 13th Legion, and...) but trying to appeal to the reader by saying that this guy's not as big a jerk as his brothers is not going to work.

>Nope, not going to change it unless somebody's got something better.
This is a decent principle, though. I'll rough something out.

Long story short, I think the idea of "nice guy who's black and wears green armor = Vulkan" argument is akin to saying Superman and Captain America are the same guy because both are boy scout superheroes who wear predominantly blue and their symbol is a shield. With enough generalization of the right details, you can make just about any equalization argument. Just because I'm an angry asshole who lives in a former blue collar ghetto neighborhood and hates the local punks does not make me Clint Eastwood from Gran Torino.

To point, I didn't get to where he is just by thinking let's make him a nice guy. Our Primarch spectrum has liberators, oppressors, diplomats, men of action, conquerors and subvertors. What we didn't have is someone who was rather earthly, and who worked to bring people together first and foremost. And that's where I started with Tiran. Everything else is a natural conclusion from that basic premise. So he became a Nice Guy(TM) Primarch.

>For example, the Soliriens are introduced at the end of the third paragraph and come across as an afterthought
That's because, well, they're not meant to be the focus of that section. The focus was how he gathered people around himself and turned the tribes into a single force.

If you think it would be best to highlight the unification more, we can throw out a few examples of campaigns where he would be working with more diametrically opposed Legions and manages to get the Primarchs involved working together well. I'd say have a campaign or two where he manages to get several rival parties to unite against a larger threat and join the Imperium, but I'm not sure if that steps on Lumey and/or Merrill's toes.

Eh, whatever. If you don't want to take criticism onboard there's no point in trying to help.

I am arguing a point, not objecting to criticism, which is why I made a suggestion in that last paragraph.

>I am arguing a point
Right, and your point is that people who see Tiran as a Vulkan clone are wrong.

Well, he's right though. Nobody confuses Captain America and Superman.

Actually, a couple of points.
I said that he's not a clone, why I remade him the way I did, and explained my reasoning behind writing up his past the way I did.

And I thought I only made a brief mention of him staying a bit longer to help rebuild, but maybe that needs to be kept down because I just wanted a brief mention, not a point to be made.

This is kinda how arguments and discussions work. If I disagree with a point, I state so. Then counter arguments are made. Then counter-counter arguments, etc.

I'm not going to argue if I seem a bit testier/aggressive/confrontational today, because I've had a shit weekend and it's quite possible I am. And for that I'll apologize for the extra asshole in my statements. But I am typing this all out to come to some form of understanding and earnestly discuss possible fixes or improvements.

>Implying I'm Clint Eastwood...

But people do confuse Vulkan and Tiran. The point that some amount of similarity isn't a problem is trivial. Nobody is saying, "Hey, Hektor is a Primarch, Konrad Curze is a Primarch, clearly Hektor is a rip-off of Konrad."

Or maybe they are, I don't know.

>I said that he's not a clone
In response to readers looking at your work and saying, "these guys come across like Salamanders". You're basically saying that they read it wrong and there's no problem with your work.

There's no arguing with that sort of pigheadedness. You're right, everyone else is wrong, let's move on.

>But people do confuse Vulkan and Tiran.
Since when?

I'm sorry I'm asking too much by wanting more info than "nice black guy who wears green" to deserve an overhaul. So, yeah, let's drop it.

I've attempted that before

Lore changes shredded it to pieces.

>wanting more info
I really want to drop this, but if you insist on lying to my face I'm going to call you out on it. When people want more information, they ask questions. You haven't asked one! You pronounced that you were right and that you weren't going to change things. That's where we started, that's where we finish, because you're a self-righteous scumbag.

I wish you'd just quit the other day, rather than threatening to so you could get your way.

>I wish you'd just quit the other day, rather than threatening to so you could get your way.
Holy shit, shut the hell up you two.

You're right. I'll stop.

Black Augur writefaggotry incoming in 3...2...1!

They raced one another across the field. Opposite the line of his black-clad brothers he had caught the eye of sergeant Absolon, and with an almost imperceptible nod, challenged him. Bolt pistols spitting death, chainblades shrieking in impotent rage at being denied first blood, and the Augurs smashed into the Steel Marshals' ranks. They had crossed half a mile of no man's land in the same number of minutes.

He had felt the rush as they charged, the acrid thrumming of his blood, as if the reactor at his back had somehow been connected to his spine; it came so easily to him now, opening his mind to the Warp. 1-2-3-4 and the Steel Marshal fell, drowning in the sands as his shattered chestplate and ribs shredded the organs they were intended to protect. Mikael chuckled at the irony as his right boot crushed that crimson head, his chainsword already outstretched before him and knocking the tip of another Marshal's bolter upwards and away, allowing the recoil to seal his opponent's fate. 5-and-6 and Mikael smashed his pommel into the crumbling ceramite web that used to be the Marshal's helmet.

He chanced a glance to his left, searching for the sergeant, and noticed for the first time since the beginning of the attack the number of dead behind him. Too many, of both white-and-red and black-clad bodies there were already too many. He didn't remember doing most of that, but he did remember the crest of his rival, unblemished, its purple feathers still protruding from atop its beheaded wearer's helmet about 100 meters back amidst the broken bodies of at least half their number. Laughing in hind-sight at the order to charge a Steel Marshal's firing line through no-man's-land, Mikael made a point to remember to go back after the battle and make that helmet his own.

>self-righteous scumbag
Hello pot, meet kettle and so forth.
For such an intelligent guy one would have expected that you'd have at least grasped the core meaning behind the phrase: "people who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones."
Then again, that's the nature of hypocrisy and arrogance I suppose.

>inb4 I'm "Knight of the Tin Foil" to discredit me despite being a different user.
I mean, its completely insane for someone to think you're an uptight and pompous manipulator, right?
Can you not see you drive people away?
Probably not.
In your eyes, everyone else is the problem, right?

Don't bother replying.

This is why starting the thread with "Shit-talk a primarch" was a bad idea.

I don't have a problem with Trian being Similar to Vulkan because Vulkan is awesome.

However Lumey is once again, being a complete faggot.

Not this user btw nor the "tin foil avenger" who MAY have had a point

Maybe we should stop putting prompts in the OP.

So how about talking about how a primarch is black, let's talk about Legio Maleficarum.

Stop objectifying women as objects or numbers to be obtained.

Titans: check

Sue Storm isn't a DC character you plonk.

Yeah, I kind of regret bringing up the issue in the first place. Valid criticism it may have been, but I didn't want the drama.

But I could have done the same to two of the other loyalist primarchs.

>Sue Storm isn't a DC character you plonk.
Tits.

>That spoiler
Speak your mind or don't speak at all friend.

If we can't take the most minimal scrutiny we don't deserve to continue on.

Add old-timey divers to that list.
Man, I love that pic too much. I think it's because it honestly surprised me.
Criticism is always good. Just not nitpicking.

>They had crossed half a mile of no man's land in the same number of minutes.
This sentence has problems.

>acrid thrumming of his blood
Acrid blood?.. Unless this is purely prosaic or a nod to the Augur's corruption, it's bunk, considering that blood is almost completely neutral on the Ph scale.

Other than that, I like it.

>I don't have a problem with Trian being Similar to Vulkan because Vulkan is awesome.
That would come across as more comforting if you'd said that Tiran is awesome.

>However Lumey is once again, being a complete faggot.
It's not a secret that I'm an asshole. But is it wrong to say that Sneaky hasn't asked any questions? Is it wrong to conclude that someone who doesn't ask questions doesn't want more information? If I've gone wrong, then I'm happy to be enlightened, but I don't know any better right now.

If you're going to make those remarks about anything I've written I'd be forced to take you seriously on pain of inconsistency.

>If we can't take the most minimal scrutiny
You can't. At all.

Pointing out that Tiran and Vulkan had lots of superficial similarities lead to a shitstorm in which two of the veteran writefags denounced each other.

We need to finish this old-school. Ideally, with a flintlock pistol duel. I'd settle for rapier or smallsword too, I suppose.

Also fuck you I do what I want.

>But is it wrong to say that Sneaky hasn't asked any questions? Is it wrong to conclude that someone who doesn't ask questions doesn't want more information? If I've gone wrong, then I'm happy to be enlightened, but I don't know any better right now.
Per usual, you're technically right but handled it in the most moronically abrasive way you possibly could have.

>If you're going to make those remarks about anything I've written I'd be forced to take you seriously on pain of inconsistency.
AlrightthenyOUASKEDFORTHIS

LUMEY IS SHIT

BUUUUUUUUUUUUURN

Really though, after the last shitstorm, I think I'll avoid criticizing primarchs, thank you.

>This sentence has problems.
Please help, I totally had a brain-fart while writing that sentence. I hope you got the jist anyway though.

>Acrid blood?.. Unless this is purely prosaic or a nod to the Augur's corruption, it's bunk, considering that blood is almost completely neutral on the Ph scale.
I meant it as a physical effect of the Augur's psyker-steroids kicking in.

>Please help, I totally had a brain-fart while writing that sentence. I hope you got the jist anyway though.
I kinda don't get what you're saying. Are you saying that they crossed half a mile in thirty seconds?

Consider, do you think a space marine can really move 60 miles an hour? Not saying they can't, just pointing out that That's how fast a marine would have to run if you meant that they crossed half a mile in thirty seconds.

Consider that if that's true, it means that the cruising speed of a Rhino tank is 120 miles an hour.