/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

>"Upgrading" a double Orion+Europa battlegroup to a Hector+Orion+Europa group isn't hugely expensive and gives you some threat on the approach.

Oh fuck me I knew there was something I was forgetting, battlegroups have coherency! That explains why you go for such idiosyncratic multi-role battlegroups perfectly.

Thank god I didn't finish gluing all my stuff together.

Yeah don't make battlegroups with different roles unless the extra ships are corvettes or strike carriers

All Shaltari particle weaponry now has a lock of 2+.
How do you change the costs of the relevant ships? (Diamond is unaffected)

This; frankly, it's best to think of battlegroups as your basic unit of force in DFC. You don't take ships for their abilities, you build battlegroups for their abilities.

I like the Leeds, Jormangundr, Aolus, and Dolomite. All simple, powerful, and straight to the point.

That's a really good piece of advice.
Now my only challenge in PHR list building is figuring out what has synergy with the mission profile of an Achilles. Obviously a second Achilles.

A perseus!

Of course, the one exception being ships with Outlier/Open; those you can just stick wherever you have space.

In general, though; fast ships with fast ships.
Ships that make heavy use of weapons free with each other.
CAW with CAW, or at least with stuff that can survive being in CAW range.
Troopships/strike carriers with bombardment.
etc and so forth.

Taking this into account, we can actually see where the Perseus comes into play.
It's not a line cruiser, it was never meant to be.
It's not something to act on its own, it was never meant to be.
It's purely an escort cruiser to augment the firepower of the battlegroup as a whole, for when you don't want to take another Orion, don't want another Achilles, and/or don't want another Ajax.

It's utterly shit on its own and in general, but as a supplementary escort to provide general firepower to the BG, it's fine.

Actually, I can see sticking CAW Frigates or cruisers into BGs with long range weapons (such as Lasers).

Enemy zoom in to deny you laser shots due to arc? CAW blast 'em.

Enemy keeping at stand off range? fuck it, launch the CAW ships at them, and force them to deal with it or break formation.

I think that 'Perseus' is going to be the new "Nobz in a 'Naught".

Battlegroup composition is a real skill I think.
You need to bundle ships that can maintain coherency and as such, work to the same threat ranges and fire arcs. Similarly they need to share Orders.
For example, I'm theorycrafting UCM a lot and it's quite challenging to blend all of the necessary Limas into the list. On the one hand, they want to be bundled into a Silent Running Battlegroup, such as Seattles or San Franciscos. On the other hand, Scanning is a big red flag against your upcoming targets and they need to precede your heavy firepower options, or else your opponent might move them from harms way.
So if you bundle them into a fighting group that doesn't need WF to operate (Avalons, New Cairo spam etc.) you get something optimal.

Of course, there's always *some* leeway due to the nature of BG cohernecy; 12" is a good distance to play around with, and having your CAW squadron a foot ahead of your beam cruiser is still enough space to aim it. If you exploit group coherency, you can get a majority of your ships farther ahead with a "chain" of ships trailing behind to maintain BG coherency.

Why do you care about WF for a Lima battlegroup?

Even if a Moscow goes Weapons Free, the Limas can still go active to ensure it gets a target... and it can do so first before the Moscow elects to turn the guns on, or if it wants to stay on Standard to not get spiked.

>Battlegroup composition is a real skill I think.
Yeah I'm starting to see that now, this makes listbuilding far more interesting.

Limas can go literally anywhere; Detector means that they can ALWAYS active scan, regardless of the BG's orders.

I really like it when games, both vidya and TT, have some kind of "meta-unit" mechanic like this.
It's not all that present in DZC (due to the already highly defined BG mission profiles and lack of BG coherency), but it's very obvious in DFC.

For the most part, every unit can and will kill every other unit; what matters is their focus, their behavior, and how they mesh in a BG.

So, are Shaltari disintegrators turreted/gimbaled/articulated, or do they just maneuver their ships so finely and quickly that they can let lose multiple banks at the same ship one after another?

Did not see that Limas have Outlier. This is a big help for them as they don't have to follow their group into the centre.
However, while Detector allows them to mix orders, it does not change the fact that WF is completely wasted on them. It's a vitally useful, fragile ship with a Major Spike; too fucking right I want to Run Silent. If I bundle them with a Moscow, I can put the Spikes out and them immediately get killed.
If I run them with an Avalon, I can Run Silent, shoot the Viper, and then remove my Lima's spikes.

I ordered from Wayland and I'm happily gluing together my 3 PHR starter-sets right now.
>I thought the fucking wings were bad.
>Then I saw all the manually fitted guns.
>Hoboi

I've got a rules question. When you've activated a group and you're shooting with it do you roll each ship separately? or say i've got two Topaz as a group would the be able to shoot at different targets?
Also with PD against a group of ships do you roll your X amount of dice per shot or after the whole groups fired?

Different ships in group can shoot at different targets, but all targets of the group must be announced before any shots are fired.

PD is rolled after all shots in a group has fired at that specific target.

Something I missed - when launching bombers at an enemy, do they need to be within effective scan/sig range? I.e. do you treat it as just another weapon shot, or can you just dump them out on the board and have them fuck one guy in particular?

I'm now thinking I want a battlegroup for straight forward firepower with an Orion, an Orpheus and maybe a Perseus. Added to that a Bellerophon and some Pandoras in a headhunter group, possibly a pathfinder group of an ikarus and some Europas and a second light group for my strike carriers

Nope, you can launch outside that range, it's assumed the craft find the targets themselves.

Ah, all right then. Thanks.

"Destroyer" is freak designation name anyway. Let it stay in the dark times of the resource wars.

Or should the strike carriers go on the line groups so I can ensure they show up with some escorts and don't get poached?

Ok, the list building is pretty gratifying, it's very effectively anti munchkin

Sea-navy version of why your PD needs to stop that incoming CAW missile. I want to see the UCM missiles arc like that out of those subtle vertical launch tubes you can make out on the cruiser hull.

No shooting when running silent without Stealth dude.

I didn't explain it very well:

> Group Avalon with Limas
> Special Orders: Silent Running
> Lima Active Scan, place Spikes, Run Silent, remove spikes from self
> Avalon standard orders, +12" turbocannon
> Avalon removes Bloom spike

You misunderstand Detector, user; they may always use the Active Scan special order, regardless of what their BG chose, but they can't do it in addition to other orders.

Active Scanning is a special order in of itself.

>actually using "shitposts" outside of teh 4chans
Wew, the KS comments have definitely stepped up their cancer.

Also, removing spikes happens at the START of the activation, not at the end. That's clarified.

So an Avalon firing will ALWAYS have a spike, even if it did standard orders.

Any "gems"? Too lazy and scared to check myself.

>@Damion
>I have my pledge... I just don't understand you constant shitposts. I mean honestly, who did you really think was going to agree with your comments about updates? I can't work out if your a brilliant troll or a moron

>KS comments have degenerated to just insults at this point, not even arguments and wrong opinions
tbf, Daimon is taking it too far as well. There was a point where both sides needed to stop, and both have crossed it.

>needing a gimbal for your energetic waveform projectors
I don't get it, why don't you just alter the vectors mid-transit?

*

Why are the PHR using archaic naval designs? I mean really, broadsides? C'mon.

UCM: 1
PHR:

Ruby up to 205
Obsidian up to 165
Granite up to 105
Jade stays at 45

you know it speaks badly when you're still getting your ass handed to you by people using archaic designs.

>Achilles assembly
ATTACK SPEED

Guys, guys!
Back the fuck up.
Who here is fully aware that the !ship voidgate has charged air?
Charged air in DFC not only is the only non-corvette weapon with Air-to-air properties, it is non-CAW!
That little static electricity thing from DZC that had 6'' range.
>It can fire 12''+(EnemySig)+Spike range, which can get as bad as 32'' if the enemy goes full retard.
>Static electricity can be fired further than UCM cannons.
>Hedgehogs, not even once.

I have a feeling that's a typo, but good catch user!
Still, it's only 5+, 1, 1

Holy shit you're right. I agree with that it must be a typo or oversight of some kind, because only the most munchkin of fluff-burning rules lawyers would try to seriously do what you're suggesting.

I posted this at the end of last thread when there was some discussion about hull classification symbols. What do you think about this?

Corvette: KV
Frigate: FR
Destroyer DD
Light Cruiser CL
Cruiser CC
Heavy Cruiser CH
Battle cruiser CB
Battleship BB
Dreadnought DN

Ehh, I kinda like

CR
FR
DR
LC
CC
HC
BC
BB
DN

Old is bad only when it dosen't work. Turrets beat out broadsides because turret traverse worked better on water than turning the whole damn ship.

Now they're drifting about with Major Tom, and the space a turret takes up might not be as justified as it would be on the water. As they say in another setting, there's never enuf dakka

CR looks just as much like CruiseR as it does CoRvette. I'm not too happy about my KorVette, but at least you know a C* is some kind of cruiser at a glance.

According to wikipedia, K was proposed at some point to be the symbol for corvette, but one letter didn't fit in, so I added the V...

Eh, I think it's fair enough.

All light ships (Corvettes, Frigates, and Destroyers) have an R as their second letter, while all cruisers (mediums and heavies) have C as the second.
Pattern fails for battleships and dreadnoughts, but oh well.

You have a good idea with the second letter bit, and I don't think Battleships and Dreadnaughts breaking the pattern is a big deal, since they're rare enough to break the pattern already.

If you change corvette to KR I'll concede that your system is better than mine. The heart of this whole debacle is people wondering of CR means cruiser or corvette

KR sounds like a fair compromise, user.

Additional, we've got to make sure these don't conflict with the rest of the lingo.

BG
CAW
LA
HO
LO
Atmo
etc

I'm cool with Destroyers if they do something interesting. Stealth for Scourge, a focus on front guns for PHR, that sort of thing.

I'm just hoping UCM get more missiles at some point. I remember somebody suggested an option to replace the medium mass drivers on cruisers with missile turrets that give more CA, and I like that idea.

That's two videos. The first missile you can see impacting the water, right before the cut to the second ship getting rekt.

>UCM Miami class missile destroyer
>medium mass driver turret (front/left)
>medium mass driver turret (front/right)
>megalodon missile launcher; 3+ lock, 4d3 attacks, 1 damage, CAW (Swarmer) (front)

>Scourge Gremlin class hunter-destroyer
>stealth
>occulus beams (front)
>inferno cannon; * lock, 1 attack, 1 damage, mauler(4) (narrow)
>plasma storm

>PHR Argus class destroyer
>Medium caliber heavy turret; 4+ lock, 3 attack, 1 damage, fusillade(1) (front)
>Medium caliber heavy turret; 4+ lock, 3 attack, 1 damage, fusillade(1) (front)
>mosquito drones

>Shaltari Moonstone class destroyer
>vectored
>light particle lance triad; 3+ lock; 3 attack; 1 damage; particle; (narrow)
>harpoon volley

988/999 Skirmish UCM List.

Pathfinder Battlegroup: 108 points.
Strategy Rating 4.
-2 New Orleans Strike Carriers. 64
-2 Santiago Corvettes. 44

Line Battlegroup: 328
Strategy Rating 12.
-Seattle Fleet Carrier. 132
-Seattle Fleet Carrier. 132
-2 New Orleans Strike Carriers. 64

Line Battlegroup: 283
Strategy Rating 15.
-San Francisco Troopship. 111
-2 Osaka Light Cruisers. 172

Vanguard Battlegroup: 269
Strategy Rating 12.
-Avalon Battlecruiser. 195
-2 Lima Frigates. 74

*Twiddles thumbs until pledge arrives*

I'd drop the sanfran at 1k, mi amigo; replace it with some combat frigates; maybe replace the Osakas with Cairos.

Muchas gracias. The extra troops from the San Francisco will not be needed that much at this points level I guess.

Pathfinder Battlegroup: 108
Strategy Rating 4.
-2 New Orleans Strike Carriers. 64
-2 Santiago Corvettes. 44

Line Battlegroup: 328
Strategy Rating 12.
-Seattle Fleet Carrier. 132
-Seattle Fleet Carrier. 132
-2 New Orleans Strike Carriers. 64

Line Battlegroup: 281
Strategy Rating 13.
2 New Cairo Light Cruisers. 176
3 Toulon Frigates. 105

Vanguard Battlegroup: 269
Strategy Rating 12.
-Avalon Battlecruiser. 195
-2 Lima Frigates. 74

Amusingly enough, the three Toulon Frigates can be swapped with the Taipei frigates without any hassles.
I do think that the Toulons are a better match for the New Cairos since the CAW frigates want to get close while the burn through laser cruisers want to keep a bit of distance for easier aiming.

Thought I'd take this opportunity to post some easy to do 3 piece Corvette conversions. Only have ucm and scourge atm but when my pledge confess in I'll be able to post more.

...

What are these "corvette conversions?"
I haven't really opened by rulebook yet.

Corvettes are a smaller class of ship, dedicated atmospheric hunters. There are no pictures or models of them yet so we don't know what they look like but they have rules.

There are rules for corvettes in game, but they don't have models yet.

Corvettes are atmosphere capable hunters that have rules but no models at the moment. People have been building their own corvettes so play with, since they're pretty important for factions to fight the enemy in atmosphere.

>Amethyst
>Encountered ships of this class: ..., Significant Fire
Guys, we were wrong; the PHR aren't the Culture wannabes, it's the Shaltari

>Nickar doesn't have scald on its Plasma Squall

that corvette seems to heavily armed to be a santiago, also a bit too big, id figure it would only have two or three of those missile turrets at best, and no railgun

Why's it got a gun? Santiagos only get missiles.

This is really good though. It's distinct and looks like an actual ship, plus you get one for every non-heavy cruiser you make.

d6 4+ Scald shots would be pushing towards "delete 1.5x your points in scoring ships every time you shoot" territory. And remember that the little blighters are 22 points and can be taken as a wolfpack.

Guys... are there any painting guides yet for the default scheme?

The actual painter posted complete lineups of the paints used for each faction and answered a couple random process questions on Facebook, but I haven't seen any official step-by-step guides.

anyway to find this without going to facebook?

Open wide for some spoonfeeding

...

mouth is open wide, and appreciate your help, although its almost pointless without explanation. We need to get him to do a step by step somehow.

...

...

As you should imagine, Scourge are confirmed as a well-washed chrome basecoat with details carefully highlighted. PHR and Shaltari are almost certainly airbrushed, with some extra drybrushing on the Shaltari.

Without doubt all the ships are airbrushed.

The devil is in the order of the paints, including the basecoats.

Thanks for the tip re: scourge. That was one of the more problematic schemes without knowing the order.

where the hell is trollslayer orange used on any PHR ship?

Highlight on the railgun optics.

>Tamiya XF-7 Clear Red in the background
My pot just arrived in the mail this morning and I'm terrified at what I might unleash. Tell me your secrets, little one.

thank you sir, and for the spoon feeding.

I wonder if we'll ever see any more of the Shaltari's bitches/former bitches. Pungari are the mainstay since they're so numerous and loyal, but there are apparently others and it would be interesting to see what they're like.

Shaltaris Obsidian slightly confuses me.
3 identical weapon names.
2 of those 3 have linked.
I can see the reason for gameplay purposes, so you have to go weapons free to gett full value, but it having 3 different 3+ (1)shot (2)Dam Particle weapons and no regards for major spikes when their shields go up, feeks way scarier than some of the other things out there,

I'm thinking of going station keeping with shield on. Shield booster gonna save the ship.

why do the DFC models look so much better than the DZC models?

Mostly I gave it the turret to make it stand out a bit. Without it the profile is very flat and doesn't really look like a UCM ship. Plus I thought it looked cool. Of course it's just an aesthetic choice without it the build becomes even easier.

I like it mate, going to look at doing similar with mine so thanks for sharing

I have a really fucking important question.
The shaltari Shield booster rules states that it's usable "once per turn."
It's the only passage in the book that uses that phrase. Do you think it refers to "once per turn, per Opal?" or "Once per turn, period. Further opals are just backup in case the first one falls."

Probably per Opal. Otherwise it would be something like 'only one shield booster may be activated per turn'. It's a big enough detail that they wouldn't leave it so ambiguous.

Remember that while in atmosphere it can only fire its scan range (which is admittedly longer than everyone else's). And, really, fuckingflowers should either be in atmosphere or racing to get there.