Warmachine/Hordes General

Well, there's always the chance his feat will be good...

I just want field marshal [gang] and not Fury5. The spell list is perfectly fine.

Battle-charged beasts behind a burning ash screen sounds legit as fuck.

A legit way to lose heavies, yes.

Clouds are nice except most gunlines already ignore them. Flashing blade is a trap spell unless it kills the enemy war caster. Counter charge without something like knockdown is a good way to lose heavies.

IR is nice.

IR is indeed nice. Trying to drop him into Cygnar or Legion does seem like a mistake though, you are right on that.

I would consider the following though:
1) I don't expect as many gunlines as now to completely ignore clouds come January.
2) You still have a second list to cover those that do.

Why it would get your heavies killed I cannot fathom. If you place the clouds at the right distance that enemies can't walk+attack what's behind them your models are safe from melee. And if you place 1-2 reach beasts behind them, you can even allow a few enemy models in to fish them off.

The entire faction has problems with gunlines, he has no one to pair with.

Counter charge works like this. You charge forward, make a single attack, and now your heavy is right in front of the opponent to get murdered.

you are bad at the game n will 4ever remain a baddie lol

Well, so far it's not looking good. And he's almost definitely fury 6. And flashing blade. Classic Skorne.

I'm guessing his game plan is cloud delivery with counter charge shenanigans, but I think our only eyeless sight beasts are the razorwurm and despoiler right?

So far just another caster that needs a permissive shooting environment to perform. If you maintain your upkeeps you can make a 6 inch cloud wall and camp nothing or very little.

I think trenchers do his job better.

Could you do a battle report with Skorne into Sloan pls? Or Caine 2. Or Tristan. Or Ossyan. Or, well, Khador. Your hidden tech has piqued my interest.

Gladiators can slam whenever the can make a charge (Bullheaded) and get +3 to the distance roll.
Soldiers have pull. But yeah it's not super amazing. He will need good abilities and a good feat to impress me.

nareesh wins every one of those matchups v. handily barring maybe Tristian who i guarantee u will never c in a tournament setting due 2 the proliferation of wurmwood/karchev/those exact same gunlines 2 which he withers like a doe in a storm

brute, gladiator, sentry, tiberion, paingivers, legends of halaak, wrong eye and snapjaw - martin hornacek never lost vs. a gunline w/ the list

makes a solid pair for rasheth/hexeris2 where hexy2 also plays into wurmwood v. reliably

the ideal thing about zadeesh2 @ this point is that he possibly answers non-Cygnar gunlines in a manner that can allow you to flex pair into other things and counter charge+burning ash forces unfavorable engagements vs. most melee lists

if he's got any type of beast buff ability (such as conferred rage/alpha hunter/old eKaya Alpha ability) and/or a feat that buffs beast SPD or has a control element he will b v. good just off the strength of burning ash + cc alone where he can put up 2 clouds n camp 2 if upkeeping both spells w/ despoiler/marketh

>Well, so far it's not looking good.

Without knowing any passives (god I hope they start giving Hordes casters passives that are *comparable* to Warmachine caster passives) or feat, this is a *good* spell list. If the rest of his cards are dreck, he'll sill end up being dreck, but I can't see calling this spell list bad by any stretch.

Given recent history, though, Skorne players have no reason to expect something not-terrible from the rest of his cards, though, but this spell list is solid.

That's not what Bullheaded does. Would be awesome if it did, but it only lets you slam on a frenzy.

If he has FM: Gang (and don't all of the junior2s so far have a FM, even Una?), that kinda begs light spam and go for multiple counter-charges per target.

Oops, only most upgraded juniors have FM abilities, but one of those with one is a Hordes caster.

>Flashing Blade
O shit nigga dis gon b gud.

>Countercharge with a Soldier
>Drag the target away from its charge target
HUEHEUHHUEHEHE

Rule of thumb for a new Skorne player or an established Skorne player that has hit upon a winning combination of rules and abilities:

>is it good?
>then you're probably doing it wrong.

That... wasn't a joke, anons.

Stops the model from getting the charge attack, but it can redirect the charge attack (and buy additional attacks if a jack or beast) because the charge succeeds *when the charge movement completes*, regardless of whether or not the charge target is there when the charge attack is made.

Also allows weird things like Megalith under Krueger2 charging a target that Envlivens away, using Geomancy to TK it back, and still getting the charge attack on it.

Hard to speculate what Skorne will look like post-errata, so Zaadesh2's current stats are probably pretty meaningless.

BG Countercharge + BG Gang would be amusing on a big pile of Brutes, though.

Zaadesh may as well not have clouds though.

He upkeeps his two spells and casts two clouds. So he's now camping zero, and can't cast any rushes.

Why bother? Zaadesh2 needs zaadesh1 as an animus bot and he can't use him. And marketh can't cast any of his spells to lighten the load, he can just use souls to upkeep for 6 points.

>Hard to speculate what Skorne will look like post-errata, so Zaadesh2's current stats are probably pretty meaningless.
He won't get errata'd.

>implying PP wouldn't change something immediately after 'release'
lol

They specifically said he won't be.

I assume he meant hard to imagine how he'll fit into nu Skorne, since nobody really knows what that looks like. Errata for Z2 or no.

skreeonk

Fyanna 2 speed 7 with chain strike and fury... Sweet mother of god let her have somewhat decent stats and she'll be one of our top casters

>Chain strike

>Fury

Man I wish skorne got to have good spells and abilities.

next skorne caster. Moshar 2 with the feat "mountains of salt"

>Skorne caster getting a feat that would be spell in other factions and the spell has been nerfed to begin with.

Sounds about right.

The dirty thirty lives whenever I deign to play WMH in liue of 9th Age.

Its just not the same. MK3 isnt as tricksy.

Actually I was thinking it would be like Wormwood's feat except it granted elevation and cover in your control

>Sounds about right.
Mordikaar's feat is a Jaga-Jaga spell, but with +1DEF. Great apart from how titans got -2DEF.

This.

He's got at least one BG-wide ability, and given the pattern with other junior2s, might have another.

Whether he's good with 2016v2 Skorne beasts may not have much influence on him being good with 2017v1 Skorne beasts.

Literally an errata to, for example, the Savage can be the difference between him being useless and awesome.

If the model didn't end base to base, there's a chance the Soldier could drag it and have it end up >1" away from both the Soldier and its target, completely negating the charge.

That might convince me to take my Legion off the shelf.

Since the pull goes until it hits something, that's going to be tricky to pull off.

I'd guess that he's going to want lights to threaten multiple countercharges. Best possible world is he gets FM: Gang to supplant his signature spell, and a couple of Skorne lights see some sort of buff.

>Since the pull goes until it hits something, that's going to be tricky to pull off.
Oh fuck you're right.

Fuck it then, just slap the +2ARM on the Soldier and have it play guard dog for your heavies. Bonus points if you can land a Burning Ash nearby to drag the model into.

BUT SERIOUSLY THOUGH WHY DOES HE HAVE FLASHING BLADE PP RRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>WHY DOES HE HAVE FLASHING BLADE
I've got it.

He has an ability that gives him a point of fury when he kills a warrior. You can clump some shit together, Flashing Blade it, and spam fire everywhere. Then Soulwards can scoop up the souls and blow holes in people's dicks.

He'll have gang himself, or perhaps even Flank.

Flashing blade can't kill friendly models.

Well fuck this. There was me thinking PP had finally given Skorne some legit form of counterpunch.

That also doesn't feel very thematic for Butcher since he murders fucking everyone.

Butcher2 had that.

Butcher3 was about him trying to actually control himself a bit more.

But Flashing Blade is usually a trap spell, yes.

My bet is that he'll be RNG2 with Gang/Flank with his warbeasts.

It's his feat that really is going to make or break him. He's almost certainly FURY6.

if he has our 3 battle plans or new good ones he might be decent.

Pray for mat7 Battle Driven Swordsmen in January.

Imagine thinking counter charge in a faction of mat 5 and 6 is good

But the Bronzeback has MAT7!

Zaadesh2 isn't so bad. His feat/statline/passives are good.

Post them then.

Unless he has Field Marshal: Flank (Friendly Faction Model) I call bullshit.

I believe you user, but understand that I'm currently afraid that Flashing Blade means he's going to be another crack at a Fury-6 melee wonder, and short of the egregious jank that is Butcher3 that never produced a warnoun of the first rank and we've already got the makedas.

But user, don't you want a mat 7 pow 12 flashing blade warlock, with a 14/16 statline or some shit like that? Isn't that what skorne really needed all along?

Skorne already has a MAT8, P+S12WM, 16/14 statline warlock. And we really really don't want another fucking Morghoul2.

I was thinking more a dark mirror of Makeda2 as likely. Monotone "yay", and feeling out battlegroup counter-charge would be good for a few games of fun for anybody.

Morghoul2 is just weird (Fury5? The-version-Stranglehold-it's-OK-for-Skorne-to-have?) and I would hope non-reproducible.

I honestly think that Flesh Hooks is a decent spell concept. It prevents the target from doing anything which extends its movement by 3", ie. charge, trample, or slam. This means you can get closer to it without risking being killed.

The problem is that 1) it needs to deal DAMAGE, not just hit, 2) it's only a fury 5 caster, 3) the RNG is short enough that you'll die if you miss unless you bring that good old Skorne support bloat, and 4) IT'S ON A FURY 5 WARLOCK SERIOUSLY WHY IS YOUR FURY STAT YOUR FUCKING MAGIC ATTACK STAT TOO WHAT THE SHIT

Yeah, he'd just need to be released with a "Rabid Reptile Hound" heavy warbeast that costs 7 points and tramples without being forced.

>but that would be unbalanced

And

6. Stranglehold/Lock the Target exist

>Medium base reptile hounds
Maybe they'd have functioning rules that way.
>Hurr it's 7 points for 2 hounds and there's just 1 spiral per card durr
Like nigger anyone who used Naaresh's meme tier list in Mk2 will have like a dozen of these fucks lying around WE NEED MORE SPIRALS.

I get the sinking feeling that part of the problem with Morghoul2 in mk3 is that they actually *did* listen to us. He got his feat back. You'd think we'd be happy.

Leaving aside that the Skorne community does on occasion get in a frenzy over some pretty boneheaded things like a black friday stampede for the last beany-baby... I think we were assuming there would be this, like, widespread improvement that went without saying.

Even listening to Skorne players wouldn't have done what happened to Morghoul2. He lost a bit in the mk2 to mk3 transition.

Gained
>Mk1 feat
>Steady
>gained .5" on his sword
>gained Blessed on his sword
>gained 1 Arm
>gained Grevious Wounds on his sword
>gained Flesh Hooks

Lost
>Lost auto-stand up
>Lost immunity to CRAs
>Lost immunity to CMAs
>Lost immunity to Back strikes
>Lost Arcane Assassin (so fan now no longer ignores spell buffs)
>Lost Elite Cadre [Perfect Balance]
>Lost 1 Def
>Lost Silence of Death (which was buffed to also add +2 Str)

They almost got it right with Morg1. Replace Side Step with Overtake and he'll be great. His only problem in Mk2 was dying to knockdowns. They fixed that but took a point of DEF away from him. 16/14 with steady is not as good as 17/13 with steady. He wasn't even good before, they changed fuck all else about him. Like come on guys he's meant to be an agile assassin/torturer quit with the mediocre DEF stats.

Except for the Arcane Assassin, that seems more of a side step and "general toning things down for mk3".

Didn't he also lose Parry?

>"Hey guys how about we tone things down in Mk3?"
>"Sounds great. Okay so, how about we make the tree the caster, and give it a POW24 AOE7 blast that removes the models from play?"
>"Seems fine. What if the tree could make more trees as a feat?"
>"HAHA LOL XDDD"

Yep.

But he gained Ghostly, which he can now cast on himself every round so he can Flashing Blade your caster 3 times and fucking die. Oh wait, you can bring Marketh to cast it! What a great way to spend your points!

At least Wurmwood is being nerfed in the upcoming errata.

What makes it a pow24?

Yeah great I've only had to put up with 7 months of being easily swatted aside.

He always had Ghost Walk.

Models hit take a POW12 damage roll. It may as well be a POW24 7" blast.

So that's pretty disingenuous, then. I guess that a khador mortar is pow 20 then, mak3's ground zero is a pow 26, and rasheth's breath of corruption is pow 24.

Thats according to the newest insider. We don't have anything besides fury and SPD 7 though

If Fury was the only spell on the card, it'd still be better than most skorne warlocks.

Eruption is a pow 28 AoE4

It wouldn't be a problem if not for how Hellmouth is basically AOE7. You can catch too many things underneath it too easily.

I gave her feat a couple days ago.

Wow I just checked the tree's card and seriously Hellmouth only costs 4? For real? Meanwhile I'm stuck with Hexxy's Obliteration that costs more, and hits a smaller area for less damage?

Didn't see it. Is it in this thread?

Its +3 Def and Dodge.

Can we all stop and wonder how pointless counter charge is in a faction whose entire melee damage output is based on a +2 str buff that lasts one turn

Please don't use your mighty pow 16 counter charges against me. That's as much damage as an 8 point berserker does! But the titan gladiator is 1 higher mat than a berserker, so that makes up for the extra 6 points it costs.

Its +3 Def and Dodge. Basically Mordikaar's feat in a faction that can use it.

Oh for fucks sake...

Fyanna2 also has Admonition.

its the feat that I take issue with most of all. I can deal with hellmouth to an extent with things like proper spacing, stealth, creating clouds to block LOS etc,etc. Hell, I like using it with denny 2 for movement shenigins. but a 14 inch forest that I cant shoot/charge into while wormwood camps the objective on turn 1 then piles all his shit in the way is some serious bull, at least with hellmouth there's some counterplay I can do and it is a moderately expensive spell but against the feat I cant do jack all and giving guys ghostly is just a stop gap measure

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

Hey guys new player here bought the starter box and looking at possible armies to get into. Really looking at the rhulics or trollbloods, maybe pirates or khador.

Would you guys think these would be good first armies or atleast safe purchases. I like the idea of scottish orcs or kiwi dwarfs.

Can Dug In Models be affected by Battle Charge?
Asking for a pack of Scarabs.

Why wouldn't they? They would just lose dig in as soon as they charged.

it's a spell meant to make dogshit casters like Denny2 but then they fucked up and gave it to the caster with one of the best feats in the game.

What? I couldn't hear you over the sound of all the blood in my body rushing to this giant erection

In what way was the Dirty Thirty ever tricksy?

It's as straightforward and brainless as lists get in this game.

Also affects your entire army instead of *one* model, but whatever.

Memes