Flames of War: REFORGER edition

Buy 'Open Fire' and see if anyone in the store is interested.

Has the game changed a lot? I've wanted to play the game for a long time, but the few times I've played it it put a really really really bad taste in my mouth.

What were some of the problems you had with it?

That could give us a better idea of if it might now be something you'd want to play.

Tanks apparently did well enough to be a victim of it's own success and went out of stock for a while. Hopefully it'll bounce back now they're aware there's a market.

What about it made you dislike it?

I just hope they add enough tanks so I can do a girls und panzer force other than Saunders or Katyusha

Can I just say how shit are the Stug's in the Open Fire box?

I hope the individually packaged ones are better, the two halves of the body don't sit flush.

Buy greenstuff.

I just kept getting steamrolled at the time because only three people played at my shop at the time, and they just kept abusing the rules at the time to stroke their ego's.

For example using a 1944 army against my 1941 army, while telling me its a 1941 army and me being foolish enough to trust them.

The game did nothing wrong, it was just the players, honestly.

Never had a problem with that with the old OF StuGs and the new StuG kit (which is in the newer OF version) goes together even more easily.

What exactly was giving you trouble?
Cause it might just be you misreading the assembly instructions.

Sadly, assholes gonna be assholes.
You told the store owner about them acting like this? Chasing off players with that shit would be bad for his bottom line.

Then the players were dicks.

Playing a 1944 army against a 1941 army is a dick move. Plain and simple. A dick move. The game is balanced around armies from the same era (Early War 1939-41, Mid-War 42-43, and Late War 44-55) playing against each other. Anything outside of the correct era will upset the game balance significantly.

Thankfully this game seems to be relatively free of dick players. At least in my experience.

>Late War 44-55

45, not 55.

No, I just sold my small army and went back to playing a game I'm sick of again, and the game died off at the store.

That's what I figured. I've been thinking about picking up some form of British mechanized army, since I like British tanks of the period so much.

Wooooooooow. Yeah fuck those guys.

It's alive again (after a slow start when they ran out of stock).

In addition to , the Germans are getting the Puma. The Sd Kfz 234/2 and /4 will be in the game (the one with a 50mm turreted gun and the pak-wagen).

I wonder if the M3 and other MW tanks will be in TANKS... and if the M3 will get to fire both guns.

I gotta say, I'm getting excited for Volksarmee. Some warpac veterans will be good to have.

I saw someone call 16C cold last thread. We just had snow here. Like white snow covering everything, not having the courtesy to melt off.

This is bad for my spraying plans.
Do you guys spray in your bathrooms or similar during winter?

What is winter? This is a crazy concept in my part of the world.

I didn't see snow until I was 25 and was visiting Europe

awww yissss

plastic italians apparently coming with new midwar. who else is pumped?

Murican player here, anything for me?

Plastic Lees

Oooooo Lee's. I'll take it.

apparently wogs and yanks are less important though. they'll do DAK and Commonwealth hats.

still, i can be patient for fluffy hats

first*

goddamn all i can think about its hats apparently

might get released as a soviet tank for LW, or they could be a dirt cheap tie fighter type of unit for Americans and they just say fuck history.

I have, do not recommend it, you'll be high as a fucking kite for days every time you need to go in it and it's not good for you.

Why? Were there not that many of them actually made?

You want a large mostly empty space that can be aired out fairly quickly.

A garage or an unfinished basement with some windows might do the trick.

But as pointed out, you really don't want to breathe the fumes. You won't be "high for days", but you'll certainly feel a bit light-headed, and get a strong headache.

Say what you will about the war in the Desert, but it is primarily considered a contest between the Germans and the British Empire.

All of the tanks in TANKS are Late War marks.

There were, but the Americans stopped using them once they had enough Shermans and sold the rest to the Soviets as soon as they could. Those things were death traps.

You realize that the next wave of WWII stuff will be for the midwar period, right? They showed off Panzer IIIs, Tiger Is, and M3 Lees/Grants.

They were strongly disliked by the soviets for being so, yes, but were relatively good tanks in the desert. The sherman was just better (and less of a headache to manage). The assumption is that because the soviets hated them they were equally bad everywhere, but the soviets were facing much nastier opposition; panthers, pak40s, and long-barrel Pz IVs were present in abundance, and tigers, panthers, and even later-model panzer IVs all had more armour than the 37mm could handle. Fighting Pz IIIs and 5cm guns, which they often were in the desert, their armour was reasonable, and the 37mm was an adequate AT gun.

Thinking of doing Team Yankee Germans, talk me out of it

>Tigers

Source?

>Tigers
Was originally told at Spiel, then FlamesCon pics confirmed the plastics a few days later, as can be seen in

As opposed to the soviets, which hate desperate measures. There's only 2 new lists in it, in which you lose the ability to be soviet for pretty much no gain. T-34's and SMG's without numbers and QoQ.

Don't forget the proper late Tankovy and Motorstrelk also in it.

You lose some of the support options from Red Bear Revised, but you gain some others (such as the excellent 160mm mortars) as well as bedspring armour and panzerfaust-equipped infantry.

Those are actually pretty damn solid lists.

>Thinking of doing Team Yankee Germans, talk me out of it
Do you have no money or no time? If so, you have other priorities.

Otherwise go for it, they're solid.

>Thinking of doing Team Yankee Germans

Depending on the force you field, you'll need to buy a lot of resin and your Panzergrenadier zug's have a small stand count, but beyond that I have nothing bad to say about the Best Germans. Especially now that Panzertruppen is out, you have amazing flexibility to field a wide range of options. Aufklärungs are especially fun, because there is something to be said about being able to cover the board with Leo 1s, Luchs and Fuchs, while still having the best gun AA and MBT all in the same formation.

The biggest issue is that the Leopard 2, while an excellent tank, is extremely expensive points-wise. You will not be able to field many of them.

That being said, they are extremely powerful.

Think of them like King Tigers, and you'll do fine.

Meanwhile Leopard 1s are probably more like Tigers or Panthers.

>Meanwhile Leopard 1s are probably more like Tigers or Panthers.
Except for the bit where they're autopen by every AT asset in the game, you mean? Their AT isn't bad in red/blue matchups, but they also struggle to take out the abrams and the leopard. At the chieftain, because that's a tea-powered terminator for some reason.

I was going for "lighter armor, but still has a decent gun and you can field them in greater numbers", but you make some solid points.

Their AT isn't spectacular by any means against the front armor of other NATO vehicles, but you can say that about all NATO tanks.

Blue on Blue is a clang-fest of shells bouncing off the front armor of Abrams, Leopard 2s, and Chieftains.

>Meanwhile Leopard 1s are probably more like Tigers or Panthers.

Tiger: More fucking armour! Hugeass gun! Continental drift will get us there...

Panther: Let's try to make it somewhat balanced.

Leo 1: fuck armour, go faster! Faster! FASTER!

Honestly, they're Panzer IVs; armour is adequate against dual-purpose guns and is going to get ignored by anything with serious AT, and their gun is good but ultimately still a dual purpose gun that's not ideal to tackle heavy armour with. And they're dirt cheap compared to leopard IIs but pay for being veterans.

Where in NJ are you? Every Thursday we play at Time Warp Comics in Cedar Grove from 5:00 to whenever if you want to make the drive. I can give you my email and we can talk about it there.

Apparently I was wrong about the assumption that the resin T-55 is a stopgap; the statement from BF is that "it's hard to justify a plastic kit when a resin kit is in the catalogue already"... So, nobody will ever be playing a T-55 company.

It'all come out eventually.

The current plastics available for FoW used to be resin kits.

It might not be soon, but it'll likely happen eventually.

People are going to have written off the T-55 lists, and probably most of the warsaw pact, if it takes the ten years it took BF to get around to making their WW2 tanks in plastic.

Honestly, it's maddening, NATO is flush with options and cool stuff, while the entire warsaw pact is basically two tanks, three kinds of APC, and a helicopter, and we're going to be missing huge chunks of it for years.

Source? Just curious.

Right. Warsaw pact is looking more like the tan army man OPFOR with each NATO release.

They're pushing things ahead on the schedule due to their own success and overwhelming demand.

Do you want more WarPac now, or when they can actually do it justice?

If they do it now, you complain about the lack of plastic kits.

If they do it later, you complain that WarPac is getting idnored.

It's a no-win scenario.

Right now they made sure they had the Cold War Big 4 (Soviets, Americans, West Germans, and British) ready and mostly in plastic.

And now they can move on to the other nations. Maybe in plastic, maybe in resin.

There's honestly nothing wrong with their resin kits 95% of the time.

You just want plastic because all the major nations have plastics.

>Source?
"Info on next year!" thread on the forums, specifically the first few minutes of the video.

And yeah, it's getting increasingly harder to maintain a red/blue parity with every further NATO release. We've got eleven NATO plastic kits now. They have three books. Warpac's getting a rushed east germany release that's going to cost us T-55s, and soviet book, and then we're getting two more western armies including one that wasn't even in the theatre. It's getting ridiculous.

>You just want plastic because all the major nations have plastics.
Well noted. Yes, it's nice when factions have kits that're cheaper, easier to build and better detailed.

Seriously, this has to be a troll question.

Key words being Major Nations.

The T-55 is a Second-line or Third-line tank.

Much like the Leopard 1, which you'll note is also in resin.

It's a front-line tank for every other warsaw pact nation.

Does your club have endless lines of people going "Man, I'm really happy about yet another NATO release, now I can buy more soviet stuff to fight them with!", or something? Because ours doesn't, we lost a couple of soviet players to the Leopard and BAOR releases and now there's two guys left who main soviets here. It's just a NATO wankfest.

>There's honestly nothing wrong with their resin kits 95% of the time.
Did you actually see the Leopards? Because they're really bad. I was considering panzertruppen but eeeesh...

Because the main combatants are 3 NATO nations and the Soviets.

Those had to be ready before moving on to any of the secondary nations.

Yes, there are East Germans, Poles, Hungarians, Romanians, French, Canadians, etc that could all be put into the game.

But they aren't the main combatants. Which for better or worse are 3 NATO countries plus the USSR.

That would be like complaining about the lack of plastic kits for Italians, Romanians, or Hungarians in normal FoW.

The main nations come first, and they get the plastics.

The secondary nations come later and are typically done with resin and metal.

BF can't rely on wehraboos for the soviets though; the germans had loads of super prototype stuff that give them one of the most varied ranges. There's no equivalent for the soviets, they're actively fighting red hordes mythology for them.

Also I'm pretty sure Battlefront's said the intent with every faction is to give them a plastic helicopter, plastic transport, and plastic tank, and the GDR's resin one is because it was rushed. If it's true that having the resin means they're not looking to upgrade to plastic for many years that's really unfortunate and it would've been better to wait.

Also also I thought the italians were getting plastics in the mid war update?

Can confirm I've been trying to fit the tracks properly all morning. The right side ones are sort of curved and don't fit in properly.

Best solution for that is to boil some water in a pot. Take it off the heat for a minute and let the track sit in the hot water for a few minutes. Then take it out and slowly bend it a little bit at a time. Still probably won't fit perfectly, but it will help.

I agree. It would have been better to wait. I imagine they are trying to capitalize on the success they have had with the other nations. I honestly wouldn't be so salty if they had given the brits the standard 3 plastic kits.The confirmed plastic T-64 will be nice when it comes out with the next Soviet release.

Are the east Germans getting a new helicopter? A hip maybe? That'd be exciting

No, it's a hind variant. They don't have current hip plans; it seems they're focusing on hunter-killer/assault helicopters first.

>no hip plans

FUCK

>All of the tanks in TANKS are Late War marks.

That's true, but it might be because TANKS is plastic-only and the only BF plastic WWII tanks so far have been LW. We'll see - I think there's room for MW tanks in the game.

The attached pic was taken from an online store that jumped the gun.

The problem is that Americans, Brits, and Europeans play these games and want to build armies that they're familiar with. There's demand for all the NATO countries. Demand for Warsaw Pact countries isn't as enthusiastic - it's from Westerners who want to play the other side.

And there really wasn't as much variety on the other side.

Are they?

I'm a bit behind on the news from Essen.

That's what I mean. It's bizarre to hamper the little bit of variety there would've been. It's no big deal for NATO if it's awkward to put together a Leopard list, since you have tons of variety on the same side, whereas when your choices are T-55 or T-72 and one of them's a pain in the ass to make you've cut off half the tank companies.

Who likes battle reports? Nobody? Too bad.

This was one of two games that we did over this weekend, this one being a 2v2 British vs Soviet game (750pts per player), and the other being Shtraf vs Jap infantry (2000 per player).

First up, the forces:

>British
For the brits, we have an airlanding company and supporting Shermans.
The airlanding list was designed to handle most opponents: Two full infantry platoons, some 6pdrs, and some MMG carriers (see PDF).

The Shermans were constrained by the points limit, and ended up being about as plain as you can get them at CV:
2 HQ shermans - 295
2 Shermans and 1 Firefly - 295
2 Shermans and 1 Firefly - 295

The airlanding were being played by a veteran player, while the Shermans were handed to one of our friends that was interested in maybe starting (after the game he expressed an interest in US Marines).

>Soviets
For the Soviets, we have Hero Rota Razvedki (ie: one of the hero lists worth playing) and Hero Heavy SPGs (ie: one that isn't).
The rota had two mechanized platoons, some cheap SU-76Ms (represented by T-70s), and a Spetsnaz platoon to infiltrate up some of the infantry (see pdf).

The SPGs were, similarly to the shermans, constrained by the points limit:
HQ IS-2 obr '44 with bed springs, .50 cal, and SMG escorts - 170
3 ISU-122 with .50s - 370
2 ISU-152 with .50s - 220

Similarly to the brits, the Rota were played by a veteran player, while the SPGs were handed to another one of our friends (he expressed an interest in japs after the game, leading to game 2 and much proxying). In both cases the vet gave a lot of advice, but final decisions were left to the newbie.

We rolled up Surrounded for the mission, with the brits defending. Unfortunately I forgot to grab pictures until the end of the first turn, so here's the battlefield.

The Brits put a platoon of airlanding infantry on each objective, with the MMG carriers placed to react to whichever objective needed HMGs for defensive fire. One platoon of Shermans was placed on overwatch in the wheat fields, while the other was placed centrally to counter-attack as needed. The 6pdrs were in immediate ambush.

The soviets decided to form three prongs:
>Rota, Spetz, and the IS-2 in the northeast
>Rota and ISU-152s in the southeast
>ISU-122s and SU-76Ms in the northwest
Overall russian plan being to push the north hard and surround the brits, while having an opportunity/diversion attack in the south. The infantry were all mounted up at the start.

The 6pdrs responded by placing themselves up on the central hilltop, from which they had a commanding view of the north objective. The Rota and Spetz infiltrated forward to the northern woods, preparing to make a daring assault before the British HMGs were in play... But the brits rolled a 6 and caught onto the Russian plan. Brits have the first turn.

The first turn was pretty calm.

The British moved the sherman reserve (the HQ shermans and one platoon) to protect the south flank, judging that they'd have time to respond to the north attack due to all the fields. The HMGs moved up to cover the infantry, but no shots were fired.

The Soviets responded by dismounting the rota platoons, then retreating on the south flank while advancing into cover in the north. The soviets misjudged the fields, and the IS-2 was unable to move at the double or even clear the field. This was met with much complaining from their vet.

>Who likes battle reports? Nobody? Too bad.

Who ever said we don't like battle reports?

We don't tend to see to many, but we do love seeing them when people post them.

Sadly I also forgot to get a picture of the second turn, only remembering halfway through turn three (when this pic is from).

Turn 2, the Brits move their shermans in the south up more, trying (and failing) to get LoS on the 152s. The MMG carriers duck off to the side and mass-fire on one Rota team sticking out of the woods, killing them. Otherwise, the british stand still and hold their fire, hoping the combination of concealment, gone to ground, and enemy RoF 1 will protect them.

The Soviets decide that now is the time to rush the north objective with the Rota. They move the Spetz around the corner in their halftracks, but hold fire so they can attempt to disengage if shot at. The north Rota break the tree line, while the 122s and 76Ms agressively move up on the Shermans (one 122 bogging in the process). The 152s, having drawn more than half the british armor well off the fight in the north, fall back behind the trees. The 76Ms miss the Shermans, as does the opportunity shot from the IS-2 at the carriers, but the Rota get a murderously effective flame off, hitting with all 4 flamethrower shots and killing half the airlanding platoon.

The Soviets then decide, since they're already past the treeline and out of cover, to assault the abandoned positions. Both MMG carriers are in range, as well as one 6pdr and the remaining airlanding troops. The result is sadly predictable: Two dead stands, and the unit is forced to fall back into the woods.

Turn 3 rolls around, and the Shermans realize that the south flank doesn't need 5 shermans to support it. They move up the road, trying to flank the 122s. Up north, the MMG carriers relocate, but otherwise everyone sits tight and opens up. And open up they do: The Shermans kill one 122, smoke another, and the platoon command ices both 76Ms. The 6pdrs open up on the Spetz, and after a failed disengage roll they lose all their transports (though they pass all but one 5+ save during the explosive dismount).

Soviet losses mounting, the game was paused for food at this point, and the British unleash their secret weapon: A giant housecat. However, it does nothing more than sniff everyone.

Was more a sarcastic saying than real expectation people hate battle reports.

After food, the game resumes. The Soviets regoup and dig in their infantry in the north forest, and the IS-2 finally reaches the front lines. The Rota in the south and the 152s move up to tempt the Shermans back, while the 122s disengage (one bogging on a stone wall, again). The IS-2 misses the one shot it can take.

The British open turn 4 by moving the main body of Shermans out of the town, while the shermans in the north field move to try and cover the firefly. The airlanding troops relocate troops out of the Church, deciding not to have them pummeled by the 152s with the Shermans no longer covering them. Shooting results in the bogged 122 being bailed and smoked, but alive.

The soviets respond by mounting up the south Rota to protect them as they close range against the infantry, as they and they 152s advance into the town again. Up north, the IS-2 takes potshots (and misses), while the 122s retreat further.

Turn 5 sees the Shermans once again dash back into the town, and destroying one of the Rota's halftracks. Up north, the Shermans reposition to try and get out of the IS-2s LoS and tempt it into the firefly's.

The soviets once again fall back in the south, with the Rota moving at the double to behind the woods, while the 152s carefuly back in so that the shermans need to get within 6" to see them. The 122s move at the double (the bogged and bailed one managing to fix both) in the north to get around to the other side of the farm complex. The brits failed to break the IS-2s LoS, but it misses again.

Turn 6 comes around, and the Shermans decide to detach the CiC up north while the other four hold down the town. The brits decide to go for a daring infantry switch, moving the 4-team platoon from the north into the town while the reinforced platoon from the south move to replace them on the northern objective. The north Shermans finally move so that the IS-2 can only shoot them if it gets in the Firefly's LoS, while the MMG carriers and 6pdrs cover the objective.

Missed the end of turn 6 in my pictures, so here's the other midpoint shot.

The Soviets decide to do one last desperate gamble. Clever positioning can get one of their Panzerfaust teams hidden behind the Firefly after a charge, leaving only its MG to stop the assault as long as the other teams stay back in the woods. If they can kill the Firefly, the 122s and the IS-2 can safely advance and start pounding the infantry next turn. It was not to be. The Panzerfaust team is hit only once by the Firefly's co-ax MG, but fails his 3+ save and dies. The Soviets concede the game at this point.

USA USA USA USA USA USA

FUCK YOU RUSSIA, WE GOT TO THE MOON FIRST

Total losses:
>British
3 Rifle/MG teams
1 Panzerfaust/SMG command team

>Soviet
5 SMG teams (3 Rota, 2 Spetz)
3 Captured halftracks
1 M3A1 halftrack
2 SU-76Ms
1 ISU-122

Soviets pushed too early in the north, and while the south diversion worked well it left them short on infantry on the flank where they needed them. That turn 2 charge was a massive mistake, and when it was followed up by the murderous turn 3 shooting from the Brits the game was basically over. The soviet infantry player didn't use his Recce as effectively as he should have, as lifting G2G on the Shermans would have given the 122s a chance and made one of the SU shots hit on side armor. The brits should have attached the command PIAT to the north platoon to bulk them up more, as any tanks assaulting in the south would have had to deal with bogging in the buildings.

List composition wise, the only really horrible one was Hero SPGs. I have no idea why the soviet vet thought that would be a good list to start someone with.

Shtraf vs Hohei battle report later today or tomorrow, depending on when I have time to write it up. I took way too many pictures of that one...

Yeah, and they did pretty much everything else first.

First artificial satellite, first animal in space, first man in space, first woman in space, etc.

First, Brits, not US, in this game. So on the subject of British space program: youtube.com/watch?v=miPCcpzRaPE

On the actually important ones:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_space_exploration
USSR led till the mid-60s, then it was fairly even on important firsts, 69-72 72 the USSR declined, and after that did little to stop the tide of US firsts.

And now NASA astronauts ride in Russian rockets...

But back to FoW... What is the best rocket launcher in the game?

Raw stats or point effectiveness? And we talking artillery or man-pack rockets?

Panzerfaust and Nebelwerfers are probably the two best, effectiveness-wise.

>Much like the Leopard 1, which you'll note is also in resin.
Not to harsh on you too much but the Next Year thread video also says the US is getting M60s in plastic, which seems a clear analogue to the Leopard 1/T-55. It's obviously not the intent that main line tanks are plastic and second lines are resin, it's probably just because the T-55 had to be rushed.

Huh. I did not know that. I was kinda assuming M60s would be resin since Leo 1 and T-55AM are both resin.

So I guess it is just a question of moving the East Germans to the front of the release schedule for Team Yankee.

Don't forget about availability. There are some lists in Late War that basically give every American and every German an anti-tank rocket.

Well, with the Americans it's "basically". With the Germans it's "literally". Fucking panzerfausts everywhere, as if assaulting infantry wasn't risky enough with tanks.

Anyone play the WW1 FoW rules? I watched a brief demo game, looks pretty interesting.

How accurate are they to actual WW1?

anyone have a PDF?

M60s with Stripes, apparently. Also Humvees.