/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness General

BURN OUT PARADISE

It's Burn Out PARASITE. Did you even read the wrapper?

More like big Nathaniel Hawthorne Inspiration. Think Young Goodman Brown and the like.

Question: If I make a Hunter game and I want to add a beast in the story, can one of the hunters become a hero for a while until they kill the beast?

Will the hunter go back to normal after he/she kills the beast?

Q: Is there anything in either setting akin to a true-LG Paladin? As in, someone that would by code defend anyone or anything regardless of what they may happen to be so long as there's no evidence levied against them as to being an actual monster by their actions? In example, even if they were to encounter a Nagaraja that needs to consume human flesh, they'd still protect them from some extermination-minded cunt so long as the Nagaraja wasn't serial killing to get their meals.

No. Also, Heroes get their powers from killing Beasts.

If you want to add Heroes and Beasts, here's my advice:
Don't.
I mean, as I always say: Use what you have, don't bring in additional books.

So take what you know about Beast and use Dread Powers, or make up new powers based on what you know from other books (I'm fond of using the Physical Disciplines from VtR2e).

Although generally how it works is that Beasts upset the Primordial Dream when they feed their Hungers, which can cause distress to humans who are sympathetic to the Primordial Dream. Those are Heroes. The ones with low Integrity seek to kill, while those with high Integrity seek to heal.

But Hunters are all about hunting other creatures from the dark, how am I not going to bring other books into the mix?

Dread Powers. Common sense. The Horror and Nightmare creation rules in the corebook.

yes, ignore points to the contrary. just remember that once a the hunter starts adding hero merits, they're going to feel weird. and not completely normal again. the Cell maybe seen as cancerous. and the hero might become rabbit in her obsession

Going back to normal afterwards? don't know

You can bring in fluff. Don't bother with the crunch. There's plenty to work with in the Hunter books (and new core).

I will heal the world, by stabbing the fuck out of the shit head murdering children out in the witch's hutt

That witch did nothing wrong. She's an honest small business owner trying to make a living in this economy.

The term is rabid.
And for him to have a player be a Hero, he'd need to read and understand Beast, and what being a Hero means. Or, you know, he can just do whatever he wants using mechanics already in Hunter and use Beast as nothing more than a source of ideas.

Conning off parts of your house as 'Hard Candy' is not exactly an honest living

What do you have against job creators?

OSHA has leaved multiple complaints and sanctions against BabaYaga's facilities, for not being up to code. How many times do we have to hear of child labor, animal handling cages, fire hazards and repeated missing handle bar on walk ways along side said fire hazards. I swear that furnace stove Combo will be the death of her

Should I equip my character with gear that I think is cool, even if it doesn't suit the character thematically, or should I just make a new character that uses it?

Levied.
But I laughed all the same, user

Any good quest or story with the mc being garou or were-[animal]? Want to read some to understand how does it work.

fairs fair. my spelling is a little off tonight
pic related

Mummy: the Resurrection was big on that, with a Morality meter called "Ma'at" that was all about truth, justice and universal balance.

This is the Reddit list of recorded games. Mileage may vary.

reddit.com/r/WhiteWolfRPG/comments/4l068a/world_of_darkness_game_play_videos_and_podcasts/

>I've heard that some people make their own cities to run their games in. Do you?

I do, as the plot I have is woven with the city's history and why the various factions have holds in the different districts. I wanted a New England feel, so I chose New Hampshire since I love the scenery.

>I've heard that some people make their own cities to run their games in. Do you?
I don't run anything, but I've got city ideas, yeah. I wish there was some good city creation software, or at least a way to do Google Maps stuff over an image. I know there's maps of Azeroth and shit like that.

But my city is a mix of New York, London, and Tokyo, with a second twin city that's closer to Vancouver and LA. One big island and another place in the rolling hills and mountains. Maybe a bit of Seattle in there. I should really flesh it out a lot. It's mostly just geographical 'feel' that I've used, and made up locations as they were needed.

I also wanted to use Gotham for that Werewolf game that fell apart. I never feel comfortable using real cities or fictional cities because I'm always uncomfortable not being 100% or even 50% accurate. But Gotham's had so many different incarnations I can do whatever I want.

That's how I Hunter.

>Q: Is there anything in either setting akin to a true-LG Paladin? As in, someone that would by code defend anyone or anything regardless of what they may happen to be so long as there's no evidence levied against them as to being an actual monster by their actions? In example, even if they were to encounter a Nagaraja that needs to consume human flesh, they'd still protect them from some extermination-minded cunt so long as the Nagaraja wasn't serial killing to get their meals.

In WoD, there's an organisation of regular jewish vampire hunters known as "The Judges". Their primary concern is with vampires that delve into Lilith-worship and demon-worship (which is in itself pretty much just all about torturing yourself and everyone around you).

They're not above working with other vampires to destroy these groups, and it helps that Lilith-worshippers and Infernalists alike are pretty reviled by all other vampires, and while these alliances never last beyond the destruction of said vampires, the Judges honor their words and their deals. In this fashion, they're far more "moderate" and "lawful" than nearly any other hunter organisation, as the Judges are perfectly okay with leaving a vampire to their own ends so long as they're not a chaotic/neutral evil murderhobo who kills for fun.

That said, a Judge is probably still gonna try to take your head off if they witness you taking blood from a mortal against their will.

Their main base is located in Israel, but they venture out worldwide as well to safeguard the jewish people wherever they may be found.

You can read more about them in the "Hunters Hunted II" book.

Am I the only one around here that sets games in their hometown?!? Hard to be inaccurate when you know it by heart, easy for players to visualise if they've been there before.

I know Gotham City better than I know my hometown, and I'm not even a big comic reader.

Really?
Enough to rattle off suburbs, where the commercial district is in relation to major landmarks, minor locations and miscellaneous small franchises? In a city that abandoned all planning requirements, you can convincingly recall what building juxtapose with what and where? You know, all the stuff they change from writer to writer (and media to media)?

If you've got a definitive version you're going with, and you know it backwards, more power to you. The issue I see is playing a game with that one guy that read in Detective Comics there were tunnels under the Theatre, and promptly turning the harrowing "escape the burning building" scenario into a leisurely stroll down a tunnel to safety.

2nd problem, what about all the Heroes and Villains that make Gotham what it is? It's not really Gotham without them.

It's more that I know nothing about my hometown because I'm a shut in NEET.

>2nd problem, what about all the Heroes and Villains that make Gotham what it is? It's not really Gotham without them.
The game ended before I'd barely completed prologues, but the idea was to turn them into NPCs that were CofD filtered. Here's the setting document. I'm tempted to flesh it out further so that people could play in it, even if I'm unlikely to run anything any time soon.

The first Hunt was going to be Solomon Grundy, who would more or less be an Extempore.

In Reckoning it isn't unusual for hunters to be goody goodies.

Old mummy has been mentioned.

Salubri are very often super goody goodies, though there are vague allusions about Saulot having delved into darker arts (it was probably Tzimisce, though, due to explicit fleshcrafting happening). Still, in Gehenna Saulot is back to being a good guy out to save the world.

VtR had a goody goody Septemi bloodline that was about reclaiming real Christian values for vampires against the nega-Christianity of the Lancea Sanctum, as well as being general vampire vampire hunters.

Children of Gaia in WtA were both usually sickening do-gooders and had powers exactly appropriate (calming people down, looking like an angel in crinos form instead of a horror, healing others, subduing others nonlethally, protecting yourself with a nimbus of light).

Khaibit in VtR are not portrayed as sickening do gooders, but they are described as dark heroes who fight against owl demons, with no implication that they do anything negative or malevolent.

Etcetera.

I'm also going to point out that in Reckoning, while there is a reputation of hunters being "Kill em all, let God sort them out," in reality the only hunter who were super aggressive were Avengers, Martyrs, and of course the horrific Waywards (who could force other hunters to BECOME berserk extremist types).

Visionaries weren't so much soft as about learning first and foremost. Innocents and Redeemers were both EXTREMELY powerful and open minded to sometimes dangerous levels (an Innocent and Redeemer in a group could make them essentially indestructible).

Defenders are just focused on defending, obviously (their neighborhood or their friends and family or whatever), and Judges are just focused on... judging whether a monster is guilty (by their standards).

>Still, in Gehenna Saulot is back to being a good guy out to save the world.

Except the Gehenna books are objectively shit, and should be disregarded by anyone who doesn't want to make any Gehenna-related chronicles into pure crap-fests.

The upcoming Beckett's Jyhad Diary book, going by the numerous previews of the chapters, offers a lot more fun potential scenarios involving Saulot and the whole savior and/or antichrist thing, both good and bad.

Heck, the same applies to all of the antedeluvian schemes in the book; it doesn't go into Gehenna's "herp a derp, the apocalypse MUST happen, everything is shit no matter what, we r so edgy, olololol"-shit, instead it offers loads of plothooks involving ancient methuselahs and antedeluvians and potential ways a Storyteller could plan out these scenarios and how the players could be able to affect the outcome of these scenarios, potentially even slowing down Gehenna or ending the threat of Gehenna altogether.

>I've heard that some people make their own cities to run their games in. Do you?

No, i dont. I usually use city books, and change whatever i need or think is shit. It helps me to think around something than creating something entirely new.

Unless of course is complete shit like Rage Across New York.

Who here listens to the Lore podcast? Its fucking great! every episode either gives you ideas for a WoD campaign or you hear the myths that inspired a lot of WoD stuff. Like the most recent episode was about Elves and Changelings.

>objectively shit

This is WoD metaplot stuff dude, "xyz obviously sucks" is not a valid criticism since its all pretty much maximally retarded to begin with.

>with no implication that they do anything negative or malevolent.
Except for the "being vampires" part. I'm not saying you have to be an asshole, I'm just pointing out that most are.

Septemi are awesome. They're another Bloodline I want to do in 2e.

>being vampires

well the context was a "poor, misunderstood" nagaraja being protected against prejudiced people, so I don't have any comment on that

I have a friend who swears Kuei-Jin are supposed to be able to spend Demon Chi to get the effects of BOTH extra actions and potence -- that is to say, that if they spend 5 Demon Chi, that they would get 5 extra actions, with 5 automatic strength successes added to each action. My interpretation is that its one or the other.

This is contrary to my interpretation. Thoughts?

CoD has canon bloat? I always feel super free while designing my shit.

I've played in games ran in my hometown, but it always tended to get a little silly. We'd end up visiting neighbours or players houses, or we'd go to the school we all used to go to for reasons and find out a teacher was a zombie or a cultist or something and it always got a bit a silly.

Reminds me of concerns in the early '00s--post Columbine--of people modding DOOM to have their school and classmates.

Anyone have a good link to Mediums: Speakers with the Dead? It has essentially the best Dark Arcanos, basically it and Larceny are all a Spectre needs.

Anyone have a good link to Mediums: Speakers with the Dead? Curious because it has some stuff for Spectre servants (not any Dark Arcanoi though)

Well, here's what the book says:

>The character can channel some of the Demon's might into his own endeavors. For each point of permanent P'o, the character is considered to have one point of temporary P'o, or "Demon Chi"; Demon Chi can be "spent" on extra actions (as if the Kuei-jin were employing Celerity), extra damage successes (automatic, like Potence), and extra Strength successes (again, automatic). A Cathayan may spend no more Demon Chi per turn than her Stamina score. A Cathayan may spend no more Demon Chi per turn than her Stamina score. Once spent, Demon Chi is gone for the remainder of the night. However, the character typically regains some or all of it when she reawakens next evening; upon awakening, she may roll P'o (difficulty 6), and each success returns a point of Demon Chi to the pool. Demon Chi might also be gained in place of regular Chi if the character feeds at a site of defiled Ghi (see p. 139).
>~ Kindred of the East rulebook, p. 91

The wording seems to imply (to me) that each point of Demon Chi can be used to boost one aspect, not that each point of Demon Chi imbues the Kuei-Jin with an extra action AND an extra damage success AND an extra strength success.

So if he wanted to get an automatic success AND an extra strength success AND an extra damage success at the same time, he'd have to spend 3 points of Demon Chi and he'd need 3 points of Stamina.

But hey, that's just my opinion. If you're the Storyteller, tell him "this is how I rule it, now suck it up". If you're *not* the Storyteller, he has the final say in how to run his story, and players are free to stop playing said story if they don't like it.

Sorry, meant to say "an extra action AND and an extra strength success AND and an extra damage success".

Some people can't reconcile so many game lines fitting in a world and think every small town has a Consilium, Protectorate, Domain, etc, all brimming with every Pack, Order, Bloodline, Lineage, Infrastructure there is.

So they call it bloat.

>Unless of course is complete shit like Rage Across New York.

Or Rage across Australia. Or World of Darkness, 1st and 2nd Editions. Or Berlin by Night. Or....

Yeah, you're really better off coming up with your own stuff. You couldn't research it any worse than White Wolf did in '96.

The exact same thing happens with oWoD. The individual books imply that while other supernaturals are out there, the numbers and nature vary when compared to their gamelines. For example, In Vampire the "Lupines" are considered to have a ubiquitous presence in the wilderness between cities, whereas in Werewolf their numbers are stated as dwindling fast. Vampire also says that if there are other changing breeds as rumour would have it, they are amazingly rare and barely anyone has seen them. This contrasts with Werewolf's assertion that Ratkin, Ananasi and Bastet have numbers comparable or better than the Garou Nation.

It boils down to the whole "to crossover, or not to crossover; whether tis nobler to suffer the slings and arrows of Black Spiral Dancers outside Elysium; or by forging an alliance with the Order of Hermes, end them" thing. If people are crossover focused, they are going to try reconciling every single conceivable splat together into, as you say, canon bloat. If they can practice discernment, there's no reason to struggle with ChroD or oWoD.

Wraith.

The Far Shores.

Bullshit, or not?

owod is very different because not only is it not portrayed as a toolbox but the devs are very preachy and sanctimonious over how there's a right way and a wrong way to do things, and for example bitched bitterly over the thought that someone's Tremere antitribu might have been in torpor or otherwise not have been called to the Goratrix meeting that killed everybody.

To a huge extent I think the different perspectives on the critter types are supposed to be just points of view; vampires perceive werewolves to be more numerous due to their ability and intent to scent, sense, and track them, and ratkin etc. as much less common due to having less antipathy for vampires.

Also, Vampire books do EXPLICITLY refer to different tribes of werewolves as existing like Silver Fang etc., so yeah.

Like Transcendence itself, not bullshit but probably nowhere near as easy a solution as people think.

Considering the hellscapes in Harrowings are not psychedelic hallucinations drawn from your subconscious but real, physical (in the sense that underworld matter and denizens can be called "real" or "physical") stages with spectres trollplaying using props they found in the tempest etcetera, I don't find them all unlikely.

What was the idea exactly, that Transcended wraiths and Redeemed spectres go to Far paradise shores physically, or that going there nets you Transcendence or Redemption, or something else? Its been... 14+ years

They're essentially soul clinics, if I remember right. They help you heal and prepare for Transcendence.

That's cool. Who runs them, wraiths or ??????MYSTERY??????

Wraiths do, but there's no Ferrymen to keep them from going batty so it's still dangerous.

>Or Rage across Australia. Or World of Darkness, 1st and 2nd Editions. Or Berlin by Night. Or....
>Yeah, you're really better off coming up with your own stuff. You couldn't research it any worse than White Wolf did in '96.

Depends, Forsaken Denver is pretty good. Boston Awakening is good-ish, Chicago masquerade is pretty good too.

>owod is very different because not only is it not portrayed as a toolbox but the devs are very preachy and sanctimonious over how there's a right way and a wrong way to do things

On the other hand NWoD/Chrod just lie to you telling its a tool box but at the same time enforces the "right way" to play it. I dont know which is worse really.

>but at the same time enforces the "right way" to play it.

Example?

I think they're talking about the Integrity rules.

>I've heard that some people make their own cities to run their games in. Do you?
Sometimes, yeah. Oftentimes we'll just use the name and location of a real city and then change everything else about it, via "things developed differently in the World of Darkness".

Link plz

Probably stuff like the orderbooks telling you how the various organizations "canonically" do things and give them a "canonical" history, the Free Council canonically being the most populous Order, etc., the 2e corebooks giving "canon" situations in various cities, etc.

The main difference is all of nWoD/ChroD's "canon" plot/history/characters/organization/setting is all pre-"day zero", whereas oWoD had a metaplot that changed the setting you were actively playing in - if you were playing in a city that was Camarilla-controlled, and then a book came out where it was conquered by the Sabbat, all later books would be written as though the city is now a Sabbat city, thereby forcing you to adapt your game to that or throw out all further material regarding your city.

This gets worse for things like entire clans getting wiped out, or leaving the Camarilla.

Sounds about right.

google.com

Every White Wolf product I ever bought was broken. I'm used to altering things before I use them. I've given up on consistent quality and direction of art, decent editing and mechanics that were tested, even once, before the books were published. The Metaplot? I ignored it. As long as the earlier materials were available to me, I was free to ignore bullshit like clan eradication or the goddamn Avatar Storm.

Chrod is no different. All books vary from 1% to 95% broken (I'm looking at you, Geist). You're all lying to yourselves if you pretend White Wolf or Onyx Path ever offered you quality. The quality came from your skill as storytellers or your joy as players, from imagination and collaboration.

If you think I think white wolf products work out-of-the-box or aren't generally big piles of crap with some salvageable ideas, you're barking up the wrong tree here (and yes, I'm including OPP under "white wolf").

nWoD/oWoD tribalism is stupid; they're both dumb, and they can both be used to play fun games. oWoD does tend to have the greater proportion of canon spergs, though (though neither of them compares to Exalted in that respect, in my experience). Good lord, the Exalted flamewars I've seen.

From what I can tell, the most popular way to actually play these games is to just do freeform RP.

Exalted, owod, and a bunch of stuff introduced in the same general time/culture period (including a lot of 2nd edition AD&D stuff) suffers from very similar ideas and feels, including obsession over canon, a very particular plot, and some nearly all powerful NPCs.

You can see it with the deathlords, incarna, and primordials of Exalted, the way that 2e AD&D had gods become unstoppable Powers (and from there, almost every setting gained beings/forces that keep the gods out and sometimes maintain order -- the Phlogstion, the Black/Grey, the Lady of Pain, the Dark Powers/Dark Lords*, etc), and of course, the antediluvians and all that of owod.

*Dark Lords were actually not remotely unstoppable or unkillable usually, and not even necessarily the most powerful beings in their domains, nor capable of expelling deities; however they were capable of closing domain borders very well.

Could I use CoD to run a game set in a Matrix-like simulated world?

>nWoD/oWoD tribalism is stupid; they're both dumb, and they can both be used to play fun games.

AND WITH THESE WORDS ALL NEED FOR THE /WODG/ AND /CHRODG/ WERE EXTINGUISHED

/thread forever

Definitely.

Yes.
Demon's made just for that

Yeah, Demon can either be adapted for a more strictly Matrix style chronicle or used as is to fit the themes associated with virtual realities and errant programs into a "normal" setting.

You could chop God Machine around a bit and explain the entire physical universe as it's software, maybe? But where would the characters end up if they could disconnect? Another universe? Our world? Big questions there...

Not too sure about this just yet. I like the mysterious and paranoid atmosphere of the first half of The Matrix and would like a game that captures that feeling. I also like the contrast between an apocalyptic external world and a seemingly normal simulated world.

It's strongly implied that thats how the Exarchs created the world. Ochemata are just logins with admin priviledges.
So MAge too.

Pre-Gehenna, which clan seemed the most powerful?

The Tremere with all their magic and the people they screwed over?

Brujah because of the damage they have shown themselves capable of during the Anarch Revolt?

Ventrue because they still have the money/power despite getting punked hard?

Tzimisce because of Vicissitude or that Koldunic Sorcery is the most powerful form of blood magic even if it isn't the most versatile?

Baali cuz they have demonic support?

Pre-Gehenna? I'd have to say Tremere. Probably the hardest to topple by external force and the most controlled. Of course this didn't turn out to be such a great thing due to goofy antediluvian shenanigans.

>Baali cuz they have demonic support?
Baali were just a myth pregehenna. As cool as they were they were sniveling servants to some lesser demons.
Probably Ventrue or Tremere.

Yeah, baali were essentially redundant compared to infernalist vampires and stuff like koldun, who could not only summon demons but create demon-vampire abominations that are also totally enslaved.

I'm sure a purist will butt in and say "but that might not be that kind of demon," and another purist will butt in and say "I'm not sure that kind of other demon is not that other other kind of demon though..."

Speaking of goofy Ante shenanigans, was Tremere justified in using vampire blood to turn vampire? As in can mages not make themselves live longer? It's just weird that Tremere made himself much weaker just so he could potentially live forever.

I think it makes sense their nmbers are smaller cuz the modern game isn't really about faith that dark ages was. Baali was important in dark ages but in modern ages there's better things to worry about.

Yes, there are immortality shenanigans far more cringe inducing and freakish than just becoming a vampire.

The owod lich lost all ability to advance in spheres, had to hunt down and destroy everything remotely magickal he had ever created (including his own familiar), and, iirc, cut off his own penis.

Various forms of life prolonging did exist, but it was clear that the old masters were dying no matter what.

The simple answer is of course pursue super-duper enlightenment and transcend or something, but Tremere didn't strike me as great of a mage as he was of a vampire.

Also much of Mage power levels were arbitrary in owod.

Also, mages often seem... stupid... because they have magickal paradigms, their understanding of how magick works, and the Tremere were seeing their understanding of magick cease to function in the modern era.

iirc, the unified system of modern magick didn't exist at the time either, not until the Renaissance-ish era.

The system that mages of the dark ages did, in fact, cease to function completely and he would have had to relearn everything anyway, and instead became a god tier vampire (albeit an insane, narcoleptic flesh abomination with MPD).

His magic was weakening due to the Consensus forming, he freaked out super hard and jumped for the first naturally-immortal creature type he found.

Modern-day Mage: the Ascension still very much has immortal Mages (who are significantly more powerful than all but the lowest-Generation vampires), so canonically he done fucked up, yes.

I always knew WoD was redpilled, deep down...

>Could I use CoD to run a game set in a Matrix-like simulated world?

Fuck that is one shitty OS, like the windows milenium of operative systems

Well I was young enough to get fucking obsessed over those films when they came out, so I totally dig why you want this.

Part of the paranoia of The Matrix was the idea that the ultimate faceless mass of authority could observe anything, at any time, and take over any "civilian". It's like a delusional nightmare, actually - anyone can be the enemy (including friends and family), authority figures were well armed and omnipresent, and phone lines could be bugged. The only devices that could be trusted were a hodge-podge patchwork quilt of technologies that spanned at least 30 years of developments, and looked like they'd been jury-rigged for the job.

Also, part of the tension from the idea of the two worlds is the "gilded cage" - that actually, living inside the Matrix wasn't that bad compared to the eternally soviet tribal existence of Zion. Is it better to be free if that means suffering?

In contrast, there was a Stargate SG-1 episode that showed an entire civilization that built themselves a Matrix and pods capable of sustaining life in stasis almost indefinitely, to escape environmental catastrophe. Inside, they relived favoured memories over and over, long past boredom, and were happy when SG-1 showed up ready to be tortured. The twist was that the environmental catastrophe had long since blown over; their world was a garden, enjoyed solely and entirely by the Gameskeeper (can't let those bastards out, they'll ruin it all over again). There was no reason to stay inside in that scenario. The terrible thing about Cypher's argument is how persuasive it is; life in the real world sucks hard, smells of sweat and diesel, everyone eats cum everyday. Matrix has steak and brandy and cigars and Tasty Wheat.

The real world is getting too WoD for me

>TFW one minute I was loathing the state of the US political system and the next I was organizing a global conspiracy to establish a technocratic shadow government