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Hey so if I get the start collecting Skaven Pestilens box set is it okay to make a Screaming Bell and Warp Lightning cannon and use the Plague Monks in my army or is that not a good idea lore wise? Also, any chance of any other skaven clans box sets being released??

It's perfectly fine lore wise. Don't know about the rules though, aren't the warmachines also aligned to the plague clan? So that might lead to some downsides. I don't think we'll see anymore start collecting boxes anytime soon. Maybe they'll do another bunch of them in the future, but there are no rumors regarding that.
I guess you could just mix plaguemonks and regular rats without too much trouble, if you don't want to play them.

Ahh okay thanks for the reply. I guess I'll have to check out the warscrolls. I only know that pestilens work well with nurgle. What I wanted to do was use the plague priest from the Plague furnace as a separate hero to get some extra value out of the kits and just think it would be waste not to build the bell because it's awesome.

What's the story beyond this pic?

Damn those coons are fucking around

>I don't see it anymore. What makes them nasty?

Volume, range and mobility.
They may not have the best damaging ranged units anymore, but their battleline unit, the Glade Guard, despite having a pretty shitty hit/wound roll, they have 20 inches range. That is a bit longer than most other armies ranged units - only artillery and the odd elite unit like Kurnoth Hunters get longer range than that.
Also, their Arcane Bodkin ability gives them to power to cripple dangerous units at will.
However, unless you plan on spamming Glade Guard, that means you need to pick the best time and target to use it to get the most out of it.
Their characters are pretty handy as well. The Waywatcher Lord is basically a mounted machine gun, and the Wayfinders command ability can give you the occasional free round of shooting, but you shouldn't rely on it to much.

Then there are the compendium units.
Waywatchers are ok battleline units. They are to expensive to really justify taking enough of them to get the most out of their special rules, but they are good for taking objectives.
Glade Riders can fire and run in the same turn, so they can basically go where ever the hell they want, which means your enemy has to decide if he wants to let them shoot at him 16 times per turn, or if he wants to try and do something about it. He basically has no chance of actually getting into combat with them.

Warhawk Riders are similar to how they used to be. Good at picking off warmachine crews, which is something you need to be getting rid of if you play gunline, since as I said earlier, they can actually outrange you.

What could make the Wood Elves more annoying than other gunlines is that while most gunlines are static, the only Wood Elf that benefits standing still is the Waywatcher Lord (who also has the highest range in the army, and -1 to shoot at anyway), so where as most gunlines are a static force, the Wood Elves can dance the enemy around the board.

How to Skaven?

Still wish there was a unit with, like, pikes and I could run a mob 3 or 4 rows deep and still think at least three rows will get attacks. Gone are the days of an Elven Phalanx, sadly.

>spamming Glade Guard

I have the models, that's for sure.

What makes other armies static compared to wood elves? Before, there was a penalty to moving and shooting that wood elves ignored.

Tell me about your army/armies Anons.

>Who leads your dudes into battle?
>Where are they stationed/settled when they aren't fighting?
>Are they (in)famous in some way?
>Etc...

Skaven player here, you got 4 options, assuming pure skaven

>horde mode.
Classic Skaven. Drown the enemy I'm weak and rats. Support with crazy tech. Impossible if you balance by wounds.

>Clan Skryre
Run the formation, usually gautfire skorch, and eat everyone alive with crazy tech and mortal wound shitting rats. Most expensive if you can't into green stuff and kitbash.

>Monster Mash
Skaven have plenty of big, bad, nastiest that can kick your opponents balls in. Rat ogres, storm fiends, hell pit abominations, vermin lords, hell you could even take a sea of giant rats. Don't forget the pack masters though. You probably won't have many models, and careful positioning of the pack masters is vital lest they get sniped

>Pestilens
Basically horde mode but you drown your enemy in toxic rats. Plague monks do more damage than any other similarly costed infantry with the right buffs. You also vomit debuffs that make your normally Shit rats hit even better. Easiest to build as they have the updated models and boxed sets, SC box and virulent horde is a great start

Is there a faction that could run like major horse archer? Or mounted archer in general?

It's more most factions shooting is best when standing still, while WElfs generally don't have the same restrictions always. They're good on the move as much as standing still.

Other armies generally need to stay still to get access to a lot of buffs. In the case of the empire gun line, half of their buffs require them to be stationery.
Wood Elves can use their special shot, and get their number bonus even if they move. Only the waywatcher lord has a buff that requires him to stand still.

On a non-shooting list issue, WE melee units are actually pretty good, especially with support from the Sisters of the thorn and spell weavers. A unit of eternal guard with shield of thorns dishes out mortal wounds if they roll a 5 or a 6 for their armour save.

They really need to add more goblin miniatures

We need some forest goblin infantry, some elite goblin infantry for both moonclan and the gitmob grots

Also why the fuck did they get rid of the regular goblin war bosses? Now the gitmob grots have no leaders

Yep and AOS is doing great!!!
I get that from my own personal feelings because GW doesn't release sales figures and the only evidence we have of AOS doing well is them claiming so.
Meanwhile they have slowed down releases increasingly.
>Huge Sigmarine release
>Huge Chaos release
>Smaller Dwarf release
>Smaller Orc release they barely expand on despite huge sales
>Wood Elf release largely re-using old models
>More Chaos release but just more Khorne bullshit

I especially enjoyed how the fanboys here for months claimed the game was better without points, then as soon as a point system was released half the general is army point posting.

But then again from what I've seen from this thread, one person is a legitimate shill who has documents and sources to convince someone of the companies and games wellbeing they whip out in .5 seconds and the typical underage redditor.

Wasn't there a rumor of sky pirate grots?

>I especially enjoyed how the fanboys here for months claimed the game was better without points, then as soon as a point system was released half the general is army point posting.
Literally nobody here said that. We all said points would be nice for competitive play, it just isn't essential for casual.

I personally prefer having points, since it makes everything easier, but I do hope they release some scenarios that changes the army requirements a little (as in the amount of battleline, leaders, artillery, behemoths etc), since it could lead to some interesting lists.

>I especially enjoyed how the fanboys here for months claimed the game was better without points, then as soon as a point system was released half the general is army point posting.

The general went to shit around this time because of pathetic fantasy fags came crawling back for their point fix.

Question, is it possible to use the warboss model from the battle of skull pass as a moonclan grot warboss with prodder and squig?

The model is the size of a regular night goblin so im not sure if it would work. but it has the prodder and the squig on the base.

I'd say ask your opponent beforehand if they are alright with it. I've only had one game where he hasn't so far

does anyone have images of the Silver Tower: Assembly Instructions. i brought some silver towers models from ebay. acolytes, tzaangors and ogroid. im waiting on delivery and was wondering if anyone could upload screens of those to help me out when it arrives.
thanks

ignore this. found it

Seems a bit slow on the AoS release as of late. What is the latest rumors, and what is the next up-comer? I heard something about steam-punk Dwarfs, which I personally would love to see!

some girl who writes for vice about anal sex and whatever ran out of ideas for her listicle

My friend, points makes for a superior game. Means one can crush your enemies more fairly. No need to be angry, you can remove points easier than add them I think. Everybody happy.

Aelves and Duardin are rumored. Nothing concrete though.

Wait what.
Nevermind too off topic.
What are the best AoS batreps on the YouTube? Doom and Darkness sucks, so anyone else?

I played my first four games last month with my old Skavens.

Are Skavens supposed to be low tier in AoS or something ? Played two games against undeads, turns out skelettons hit way harder than clanrats, have stupid high leadership, have better survivability and can be summoned back while being only a little more expensive. The third game was against sylvaneths that made woods pop all over the table making every charge and every run move a choir while bombarding me from afar.

I got utterly slaughtered in each of the three games. By this I mean that I barely killed anything at all while being close to be tabled each game.

What was I doing wrong ?

Post your list. I'm a die hard Skaven fan. Once I see what you've got I can give you better tips.

Skaven sit pretty comfortably at higher mid tier most of the time but they take a bit of getting used too.

Full on gautfyre skorch (I'm talking maxxed out) shots on just about everyone who doesn't null deploy. So there's that.

I don't have a detailed list here with me but on the top of my head at 2000pts I had :

>3 units of 2x40 and 1x30 clanrats
>4 rat ogres
>2 warplightning cannons
>1 screaming bell
>1 abo
>2 ratling team
>1 skaven warlord

Balewind Vortex up for pre-order.

Also, to nobodies real surprise, the rules for it have changed: games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-Balewind-Vortex-ENG.pdf

Buffs: Now they have strictly mentioned models on top of the Vortext can NOT be charged. Before people argued fliers could charge them, or anyone could charge, they just couldn't MOVE that close (they were always wrong, but now they have no leg to stand on).

Nerfs: Casting roll increased from 5 to 7

This is one of the reasons I love AoS, its scalability.

Sorry my friend, I don't think AoS scales any better/worse than 99% of games played. If anything it can be argued it scales up badly due to moving so many models yes?

In fact my friend, reading this again I can't think of any game this could not apply to really.

I think maybe you are delusional?

I disagree. I think the game scales very well. Even when you got to a high model count. I never said it scaled better than any other game, I just love that it scales well.

Compared to 40k, for example. Scales pretty fucking terrible at high points (aka apocalypse games are a literal drudge to play, and I love 40k). When scaling it down to kill-team, it needs a book of rules and especially heavy houseruling (like HoR) to make it even better.

AoS however goes by quickly in large apocalypse games (I've done a few and they are super fun and quick compared to 40k apocalypse), and I've also done kill-team games, which all that is needed is this pamphlet.

>I think maybe you are delusional?
Not at all. Again, I never claimed it scaled better than all other games (except 40k), I am just glad it scales well. See above.

I brought that here because I find it refreshing that GW isn't always pushing nothing but bigger games with more models all the time, it shows that even they keep small games in mind when designing their stuff.

40k no need special rules for small games. That is for them squeezing out more money. Nor does one need apocalypse for bigger games.

As an AoS player you should know that rules aren't locked in needed. But more about your brain expansion.

But I understand your sayings. I found intent where tone was neutral. I understand now.

Where did the charm go?

Thats the biggest thing to have been lost in the transition to AoS

Define charm my friend. Many things lost in transition, can charm be one of them? Be more convincing please.

That's your opinion. To me it is alive and well. Of course your definition of charm is likely different than the players.

Sorry for the late response but here's my critique on your list.

>General Critique
Clanrats are never very good, seriously. No matter how much we buff and buff you can't fix their mediocrity. They're cheap as all hell, but you end spending 180 points on a unit that 200 points of plaguebearers does 2x as well.

Rat ogres are way better than they have any right to be BUT you must, I repeat must, run them with a pack master. They have Shit bravery, so any bravery based attack eats them. They hit hard but not often, and the extra speed is a godsend.

WLCs are good, if a bit random. I find them more useful as hero and monster snipers, as opposed to the army crushing artillery they once were.

Screaming bells have their uses, just not against what you played. The buffs are always nice, but for its points you need a reason for most of its buffs. As it were you only wanted two (wall of unholy sound and avalanche of energy)

Hell out abominations are great but much like the rat ogres benefit massively from packmasters. They are 60 points, if you run moulder run packmasters.

Ratling guns, zero complaints. They are good if the dice like you, short range means they need protection.

Warlord, nothing to say about this guy, he's a good general.

OK now for adjustments to your list.

Stormvermin are goddamned fantastic. But they eat points. Buff them always and they will eat the enemy. 20 vermin have always earned back their points plus some in my games, I recommend at least 2 units of 20.

Grey seers are a fantastic general, rats won't run on a 4+.

Storm fiends are unfair with the right kit. Unfortunately you need at least two boxes to make 2x of each weapon. But 3 warp fire throwers hurts anyone.

Warpgrinder teams can be very useful.

Vermin lord war bringer makes clanrats decent, and stormvermin become god tier (40 3/3 -1 rend attacks that reroll 1's to hit and wound, gg m8)

Verminlord deciever for maximum speed, skitter leap is almost unfailable.

Cont.

Cont.

Consider running the Bernini's clawpack formation. You get the warlords ability without him being the general, bonus bravery and weapons teams can pass wounds to clanrats.

Jezzails piss on stormcast. Hurt just about everyone else.

Skaven have some devastating magic, arch warlocks can bring the pain every hero phase.

If you really want thanquol and bone ripper are expensive beasts that make your rats a bit more survivable (6+ FNP basically, 5+ if the unit has 13+ models) while being horrific in combat.

In regards to what you fought.

>Death
Skellies Shit out buffs like you wouldn't believe. And every death unit is resilient as Shit because death. They all get an armor save, FNP, and usually have something else tacked on. Much like Skaven, death has issues when you butcher their heroes. Mortal wounds,high rend, or sheer volume of attacks (things we do very well) can chew through their bullshit saves. Unfortunately the bulk of your army was clanrats and rat ogres, both units that simply can't survive the nonsense that death deals in, you needed to win one combat to lose the other, Skaven always lose attrition.

Solution: More, More range. Weapons teams can help, assassins can help, kill the heroes.

Sylvaneth

OK this ones hard and it has nothing to do with you. Sylvaneth are a nightmare if they have a good general. Most of their little guys suck, your horde of clanrats can easily take dryads and revenants. It's the big guys that suck. However a good general offsets this by abusing all his terrain gimmicks and teleports (as it sounds like he did). Utilizing the warp grinder team to quickly close the distance on his big models (kurnoth hunters with bows aren't that scary in melee to a horde of rats or storm fiends) can allow you to gain momentum quickly. Forcing him to rely on his inferior battleline.

Solution: grinder team, stormfiends, storm vermin. Avoid the forests, kill the heroes.

DO NOT FIGHT DURTHU IN MELEE, YOU WILL FUCKING LOSE!

Verminus not Bernini

Agreed, look into Threch Craventail, his command ability is solid on whoever gets it. Consider a Skaven chieftain with Battle Standard to make your rats immune to Battleshock.

Use a vermin lord Deceiver to get any assassin, including other heroes, into melee using Skitterleap.

Remember first and foremost that AoS is about the big synergies that can turn mediocre units into devastating ones.

Skaven are great because there's a unit for everything, with one of the most expanded armies around.
Decent CHAOS wizards mean you can summon daemons.

Mortal wounds come in many forms, warpfire throwers, Stormfiends, Warplightning Cannons, D6 spell from the engineer, 3xD3 from the Archwarlock, tons from plague monks and Jezzail Headshots.

Rending attacks come with Thretch's buff, Stormfiends and stormvermin, and with our many heroes.

Swarms of chaff in the form of clan rats. Giant rats, rat swarms, stormvermin, all of which becomes unbreakable with a Bsb nearby, which also gives a reroll 1s to hit.

There's an answer to everything as Skaven, and it's just to throw more rats at the problem.

>Means one can crush your enemies more fairly
Congrats, (You) are the problem we're talking about.

...Are you legit autistic? How long does it take you to move Models?

I am not a problem my friend. I am good painter, good player and good friend to play. AoS is just not for all.

Autism is absent my friend.

Have you tried to move hundreds of models before? Often not the most entertaining activity one can endure.

If you enjoy moving models then that is cool beans.

it was destroyed alongside the low magic elements.

have you seriously never played a larger game?
deploying and moving can take a lot of time.

My army is led by a lord of plagues by the name of Risgat. He serves under a mighty beastlord in both respect and fear of the beastmen trampling and destroying his own holding.
He and his men reside in a dark and treacherous swamp called "the Rotbark wetlands"

Risgat and his army is know for pillaging and wrenching death and mayhem around many nearby freeguild towns and cities. And with the support from a mighty beastmen Brayherd many surrounding kingdoms have a hard time getting rid of him

I love Doom and Darkness. Others are:

Miniwargaming
Tabletop Minis
Guerilla Miniature Games
Moarhammer 88
Andy2D6
CreativeNameToStandOut
The Long War
Mc1Gamer
Paul Conti
The Basement Collective
40K Amateur Hour
Hooves of Doom
Eric54114 the Waaagh Gamer
Crit Damage Miniature Games
The Armchair Emperor

They're a mixed bag as far as quality and quantity of content, and many produce other AOS related content as well. Enjoy.

Are Tomb Kings overpowered? How do you even beat Settra + 9 Chariots + 9 Necropolis Knights + Royal Warsphinx

You know, I sort a like Savage Orruks but... I miss not having like a bigass smashy hero. The Big Boss seems... meh.

Do Ironjawz Brutes have a chest under their armor or does the armor plate on them complete the model?

I built some irondrakes for the LVO, but decided to try a different posing with them. What do yall think?

...

Thanks guys, I'll work on my list and post the result when I'm done. Definitely will play the verminus clawpack formation in the future. Also thinking about ditching the screaming bell and maybe some clanrats to fit in stormevermins since they do seem very good.

Maybe I'll a bsb too to paliate the bravery problem skavens suffer from.

Your a name fag so my first instinct is to hate you. But you provided some useful info, so I guess you get a pass today.

>still hating namefags
He's been here practically since the beginning of aosg, and it never was a problem. I don't see why it is now. Unless you're a newfag?

is the Seraphon start collecting box any good gameplay wise ?

been watching Guerilla Miniature Games and The Basement Collective whenever they decide to upload, gotta try out theses others. thanks

Guys, is there anywhere I can buy individual units? My kid cousin accidentally crushed a single Saurus Guard or whatever they're called and it feels like it'd be a waste to buy a whole box to replace him

Ebay or a 3rd party model or ask in your flgs or put something from you bits box on a base. Maybe an animal or even a skink. Or do something creative/funny, like an orc that disguises as a saurus.

i dont think so, most of the time time they are sold as a whole unit

what was that site that has archives of all warhammer artwork

Nice, I love the Bazooka look

Thanks. I still have another unit built the normal way, But I like these guys the best. I am also working on a dwarf lord on shieldbearers, which will be represented by my own steamsuit.

Then let's see U make a tournament-level WE list.

A) I didn't say they were the best, or they were OP, I said they could be a scary gunline. Even the best gunlines don't do consistently well in tournaments.

B) Most tournament lists are comprised of the entire Grand Alliance. One of the first big AoS tournaments had a top placer that used a lot of Glade Guard if I remember corrected (although that was mostly to take advantage of their Alpha strike and Gryph Hound shenanigans).

>>I didn't say they were the best, or they were OP, I said they could be a scary gunline.

Obviously not scary enough for tournaments, so that settles that.

>>One of the first big AoS tournaments had a top placer that used a lot of Glade Guard if I remember corrected (although that was mostly to take advantage of their Alpha strike and Gryph Hound shenanigans).

>>Most tournament lists are comprised of the entire Grand Alliance

Why bother if you can just spam Sigmarines all day? They have better archers anyway.

...

We get it, you are bored so you want to shitpost.

Right before AoS happened, I bought a Skaven Battalion and was going to start an army. I decided to switch to 40k and wait til the dust settled on AoS.

Should I continue with the Skaven(Not feeling too hot about them) or should I get the start collecting box for Seraphon or Doot doot skelebones?

>>We get it, you are bored so you want to shitpost.

Nope. I just proved a point. Rather brilliantly too, I might add. Bottom line: GW hates Wood Elves and "That Guy" is trying to polish a turd. God knows why. Either he's trying to pimp his own WE army (and failing miserably), or he feels guilty for using his WE opponents as all-day punching bags.

We don't have any WE players where I'm at, but if they wanted to play against my Stormcasts, I'd gently, honestly, and politely ask them if they understand that they're far inferior (regardless of the list they're running) and have been since 8th edition.

Skaven are good. They have some excellent support units. Stormfiends, for example, are considered pretty high-tier from their army. Basically the way skavne play has not changed at all. You send in hordes of cowardly rats for your opponent to deal with. Target saturation.

I am thinking you originally bought that box of skaven because you liked the look of them and their aesthetic. If so, then there is no reason to switch, because it's still the same look and lore. As with anything in this game, you pick the army that appeals to you the most for the hobby side, because 90% of the time you will be spending with it will be the hobby, not playing.

New to this conversation.
>Bottom line: GW hates Wood Elves
You see, i don't get this, because I don't agree. It's incredibly narrowminded to think that. GW has said they will get around to updating and fleshing out the lore for all the older factions that have not gotten a battletome yet.

Are the wood elves (aka wanderers) inferior right now? I would agree. But to say GW hates them just because they haven't gotten around to them yet is a pretty asinine point to try to make. Because AoS has a progressing story, when the story gets to all the aelves, we could expect the wanderers to get an update with a battletome and new models, but until then we just have to be patient. They are juggling more than just AoS right now, and I don't think we can as for more than weekly releases.

When the GW store guy sold me it, he told me basically they're all or nothing, you either absolutely destroy your opponent or you lose bad.
Is that still true?

The same could be said for any army, right now. I think with them you will encounter really bad games, really good games, and really close games. The game does pretty well with its internal balance outside of a few extremes. Like if you were to spam mostly units of stormfiends then you are being that guy, but if you have a healthy mix of units and an army designed to tackle a variety of different opponents, you should have some exciting games at least.

Awesome. Sounds pretty good, as I try to do the same thing with my 40k army.

>>GW has said they will get around to updating and fleshing out the lore for all the older factions that have not gotten a battletome yet.

And you habeeb it? Just FYI, the last time they did this was 6 months or so before they released AoS. They follow the same pattern as Sisters of Battle in 40K, they only release a new army book before coming up with a new Edition of the game.

>>Are the wood elves (aka wanderers) inferior right now? I would agree. But to say GW hates them just because they haven't gotten around to them yet is a pretty asinine point to try to make.

You're ignoring the fact that they deliberately made them inferior in AoS after keeping them down for most of Fantasy. C'mon! Everyone hates Wood Elves. You simply can't admit they're trying to choke them out as a faction entirely because they're not dark 'n' edgy enough. They even took all the tree guys, made them into an army, and left the rest high and dry. If that's not the biggest clue right there, then I don't know what else to tell you.

>>Because AoS has a progressing story, when the story gets to all the aelves, we could expect the wanderers to get an update with a battletome and new models, but until then we just have to be patient. They are juggling more than just AoS right now, and I don't think we can as for more than weekly releases.

Never happen. And I don't collect them anyway. I'd be CRAZY if I did. There is just no demand for Elves in-general, let alone WE. Seriously, how many people do you know that actually play them? And no, the once-in-a-blue-moon post online doesn't count. They're not a moneymaker, and never will be.

I find it interesting that you can see the future, but it's whatever.

>I find it interesting that you can see the future, but it's whatever.

Just citing established history and patterns of behavior. If anyone's thinking about playing any elves, I plan on talking them out of it.

>I plan on talking them out of it.
Well if someone asks if theyre competitive or is thinking about running competitive lists for them, that's fine. But if they like the look of them, and just want to paint a bunch of tree-loving elves, then there's no reason for you to talk them out of it.

>But if they like the look of them, and just want to paint a bunch of tree-loving elves, then there's no reason for you to talk them out of it.

If they just want to paint and collect, that's fine, but you should be honest up front and say, "Listen, I don't want to discourage you, but they're shit-tier, and you will have no fun at all."

After all, why lie to them? What, you wanna give them a false sense of security and then watch them lose every fucking game? What do you think that does to the player, man? If you're a doctor and your patient has cancer, you have to give it to them straight. Don't fuck around.

>Either he's trying to pimp his own WE army (and failing miserably)
Surely if anyone was trying to show off a WE army they would have at least posted a list.

I know you are a troll, but I have to bite.

The post you first replied to, is a reply to a question asked in the last thread. We were talking about gunlines, and someone who knew about WE from WHFB wanted to know why they can still be horrible to play against. The same applies as before - unless you have a tailored list, if the person controlling the WE is good in the movement phase, you are not going to be enjoying yourself.

You are literally the only person talking about tournaments, which is odd because you probably never ever played in one.

>You're ignoring the fact that they deliberately made them inferior in AoS after keeping them down for most of Fantasy.

But they were one of the strongest armies in both 6th and 8th edition. It was only really the period in-between where they didn't see any updates where they really sucked.

Also, most non-updated factions are pretty shitty in AoS right now. It is a common theme amongst all of them.
Problem is, we have no idea how they are going to update some of them. So far the factions we have had updated have been straight forward for them to do, but the Elves are so fragmented there is no way to tell if every mini-faction is going to get a Sylvaneth style update (new models, new rules etc) or if they will just do a generic Elf book for them all.
It is mostly the High and Dark Elves that need to worry about this I guess, since the Wood Elves only split into two factions.

>I know you are a troll

Keep reading!

>if the person controlling the WE is good in the movement phase, you are not going to be enjoying yourself.

That's true, but only when played in New McTheoretical Candylandistan. In AoS, they don't have the movement advantages they hand in WFB, and now they can be easily cornered.

>You are literally the only person talking about tournaments, which is odd because you probably never ever played in one.

I'm arguing that the only armies worth playing are tournament-tier. Yeah-yeah, people complain about WAAC lists, and such, but in the end, everyone's going for just that. People only argue against WAAC lists so they can come across as all holier-than-thou. It's hypocritical. The only army worth having is one that you can take to a real tournament.

My God, you probably also think they're going to update Bretonnians, don't you? GW let them die, just like they're going to do with the WE.

>>But they were one of the strongest armies in both 6th and 8th edition.

Check the faqs. They were great in 6th and then utterly hamstrung in 8th. Then End Times happened. Oho! You thought I forgot that?

>>It is mostly the High and Dark Elves that need to worry about this I guess, since the Wood Elves only split into two factions.

I'm being positive here, but also realistic: The update will come after every other army has seen their update. Then when a new Aelves book comes out (if it EVER comes out), you'll get updates to Dark and High, but Wood Elves will be mysteriously absent.

Trust me on this. I would so like to lay some real $$$ down, but the wait will be too long to matter if it ever does.

Face it. GW has to "cull the herd" a bit. That starts with the weakest/least popular. Just remember you heard it here first.

what grand alliance pdfs do we have so far?

... Such bait. Almost triggered a response.