Ok Anons question time here. I just read this book and now I am left seriously wondering if all Black Library material is canon? Because this book has some serious inconsistencies and authorial leniency.
Displays of marines surviving hails of gunfire repetitively against overwhelming odds. Magnus frying some enemies instantly but forgetting that several pages later.
So is there a rule of 'some books are more canon then others?'
There is no canon in 40k, and yet it is all canon. You will go mad trying to find consistencies in all the fluff. Each account of something is a retelling from a different individual and perspective. And each account and retelling can be disproven.
With 20+ years of fluff written for everything by everyone, this is just what happens. Which is why fluff arguments on here are pretty fucking retarded.
Ignore all Black Library is the best Canon
Perhaps internal consistency is more my meaning on that point?
I mean I've heard this before
>There is no canon in 40k, and yet it is all canon.
But yet I've also heard about how BL go out of their way to martian 'canon' between books. This one however just really seemed off overall which is why I'm asking. I dont think 'well it doesnt have to make sense' is a good enough reason honestly when theres no reason for it not to.
Ignore all especially the beast and you wont bash your own head in with a lead pipe
In the last few years under the leadership of Goulding they're trying to establish things as canon finally. So the short answer is nothing is truly canon though all fluff abides by the same general rules. More complicated answer is in recent years a general canon is slowly being established.
>expecting internal consistency in 40k
>Because this book has some serious inconsistencies and authorial leniency.
this book has been described as "masturbation" rather than writting.
Also I have never seen anyone write the thousand sons more out of character than this guy.
Literally every line he kept saying prosperine troops even thought cultists wherent from prospero. Basically the Thousand sons here where acting like Alpha Legion but gone completely retard. Also Magnus here was a total bitch and was Out of character.
>the leadership of Gouldin
literally a neckbeard hack.
Why cant GW or GEEDUBS hire a real professional or veteran like the mother fucking overfiend instead?
Believe it or not back in 3rd and early 4rth there was consistency, thanks to pic related.
>I am left seriously wondering if all Black Library material is canon?
GW has no official statement on canon, but largely ignores black library when writing new fluff for their core products.
Take from that what you will.
>Also I have never seen anyone write the thousand sons more out of character than this guy.
>Literally every line he kept saying prosperine troops even thought cultists wherent from prospero.
Yes this is what I meant. This was the first book that just didnt line up with the representation in some of the others. Characters normal disagree over the series but here certain fights and characters acted differently depending on which page you were on.
Interesting. Do you have an example of that user?
No, they don't.
GW is using GW to expand the lore and retcon elements of the lore.
In fact, they are lessening the amount of lore in the codexes/rulebooks while giving BL leave to create all the new content. Also another fact, BL authors are sometimes are made to write GW sourcebooks like when ADB helped in writing the Black Legion supplement and also wrote the new Index Astrates.
This is the most newfag thing I ever read. Andy Chambers created the necrons and C'Tan that are continuous blights on the 40K lore. When he left the lore writing became way better
I gave that book away because I was super close to literally buring it on a pyre.
The thousand sons got rekt like bitches, and the space wolf battle cruiser breaking a thousand sons one in two was the most pathetic and hilariously bad thing I have ever read.
I seriously regret reading this, the time I spent reading this shit cant be bought back and it upsets me.
Also I love how BL staff go parading around claiming all their shit is canon because muhh gee dubbs and yet they are nothing but pathetic genre writters. Only a few of them are great.
Andy Chambers Dark Eldar series it's honestly one of the best stuff BL has vomited in years! t
Also Lord of the Night its incredibly good, way too good if you ask me. I like how Aaron dembski bowden goes batshit whenever someone compares his special snowflakes to Szo Sahaal.
Sevatar its an edgy sucker, he will never beat Szo Sahaal who literally represents what a Night lord should be, a raptor lord and perfect hunter.
Just small stuff every now and then. Completely ignoring Mortarion's Heart would be the most obvious example of it happening I can think of.
As I said though, there's no official statement on Canon from GW. They're hands-off in how you enjoy their products.
Authors have been helping write the fluff for the codexes since mid third edition. That doesn't really change how GW treats the fluff.
BL of course puts on airs as the one true source of canon, and many of their authors like to see themselves as the curators of the setting, but the fact is they can't keep their own works consistent with one another and GW freely ignores them when they feel like doing so.
>the curators of the setting, but the fact is they can't keep their own works consistent with one another and GW freely ignores them when they feel like doing so.
Actually, there is an effort to make them consistent with each other. You would be hard pressed to find an example of GW ignoring anything from BL in recent years. I mean look at the AoS novels which come in tandem with settings rulebooks. Both are consistent with each other and work with each other smoothly to establish the setting.
I actually like some of the BL books. It's genre fiction I know what I'm in for.
>I seriously regret reading this, the time I spent reading this shit cant be bought back and it upsets me.
Lol it wasnt that bad but I'm not particular attched to the TS's so. Truly it just wasn't a fair representation half the time for either side I might add. But it seems that I'm not the only one who noticed that so I think I'll just ignore it.
>Just small stuff every now and then.
Makes sense user.
>Andy Chambers created the necrons and C'Tan that are continuous blights on the 40K lore.
the necrons where there since 2nd edition, he created stuff out of nothing so it was basically left needing more stuff. Unfortunately Matt ward came and turned them into space tomb kinds.
But according to you lore became better atfer he left? Like the shit grey knights, blood angels, necrons, chaos space marines among other retarded shit??
Your shit is retarded.
AOS its a bad example since its a new setting and there is literally NOTHING about it to keep up.
Whilst in 40k they act all pompous and are wanabe curators while all they do is retcon shit to their liking.
>the necrons where there since 2nd edition
As literally who the faction then came along Andy and made the oldcrons and C'Tan. He rewrote the setting to revolve around his pet faction with the "C'Tan did it" bullshit. Matt Ward fixed his shit but nobody can totally undo the damage Andy caused to the setting.
And yeah the setting became way more enjoyable when he left.
>Actually, there is an effort to make them consistent with each other.
Yes, which is why it's remarkable how much they still fuck up. And why certain vocal employees should see the wisdom in keeping their traps shut instead of arguing with pedantic nerds on the internet about the canonicity of whatever novel just came out.
>I mean look at the AoS novels
Small timeframe, no established setting or information to contradict.
The HH series was (fairly) consistent at the start, too.
AoS is the sequel of WHFB. For example, they have to be consistent with the cosmology, mythology, and magic system set in WHFB. Also there are plenty of surviving old characters who need their characterization be consistent with their WHFB selves.
>Yes, which is why it's remarkable how much they still fuck up.
Point at a recent fuckup.
Most BL writing is GOD AWFUL but I'm the novel that OP is referring to is just a total hack job and garbage. OP try to find good writers that do BL books. And try to avoid the rest of the crap from BL as best you can.
>The HH series was (fairly) consistent at the start, too.
Meh. Bjorn is a recent example of retcons from BL. They originally had him be a relevant and important character during Prospero but now hes just a pleb. You can see with Gregor the Fell handed that they forced FW to change to that too at the last minute.
>Also there are plenty of surviving old characters who need their characterization be consistent with their WHFB selves.
not really, since they all went super-form and completely changed off-screen in the transitionary period
>from BL
in the HH series, GW watches stuff like a hawk. Authors don't have any freedom there. Nothing get put in the books unless GW double checks it. So any changes like having Admech gear that was invented post HH into the HH, is a management decision in order to sell more plastic toys.
The Undead and a lot of the Chaos characters didn't change.
For example, Mannfred is still being the old and lovely based vampire we all know and adore.
BL was responsible for Gregor? fucking bitches.
>they have to be consistent with the cosmology, mythology, and magic system set in WHFB
pfft which is hardly ever mentioned and even then its just offscreen.
oh, fair dos
the order characters have changed, though
>Nothing get put in the books unless GW double checks it.
The problem with what you are saying is that over time what gets put in so to say gets changed over time. So you get problems when you apply that to the entire series.
The largest retcon that I remember was how outcast dead fucked up the timeline with Magnus's warning arriving after Isstavan 5. They then fixed this in another novel explaining that his warning had been 'contained' in the Palace for years until it finally broke out. No see it technically works out now but for awhile no it didnt.
it still dont work. Outcast was really fucking boring and pointless desu.
>gw double checks it
My fucking ass
>Displays of marines surviving hails of gunfire
Wow it's almost like they're wearing power armor, and bolters are pretty shit at penetrating power armor unless they're vengeance rounds which were specifically invented to not be shit at penetrating power armor.
>When he left the lore writing became way better
I'm not a Chambers dicksucker but you're an absolute moron if you believe that.
>Le matt ward bandwagon
Piss off 1d4chan.
I'm guessing you haven't read the book?
It take it you don't know that bolters are AP5?
If you'd read the book you'd understand. During the seige the space wolves answer to getting shot at was to run out of cover repetitively into the line of fire without losing a single marine. This happens 3 or 4 times.
...And? Power Armor should safely stop most bolt impacts so long as it doesn't strike the weaker parts. Rather, the books where space marines easily died to bolter fire are the ones that totally fucked up, especially the heresy ones considering Tigrus and Phobos bolters are dogshit compared to the Godwyn.
Andy Chambers Necrons were a hundred times better than Wardcrons. Go ahead, post your Lil Jon pics.
stop using tabletop rules in fluff argument.
What AP are the bolts rubric marines use?
If you aren't trolling, answer is AP 3 for rubric but rubric marines wouldn't have existed yet for the novel that OP asked about. But they could still have Inferno Bolts that would give them the AP 3.
>but rubric marines wouldn't have existed yet for the novel that OP asked about.
Yes, yes they did. Stop being wrong.
>in the HH series, GW watches stuff like a hawk
Says who?
Black Library shitters, that's who and I don't believe them.
I intended to say, IT DIDNT.
Chambers leaving was a mistake.
>GW DOUBLE CHECKS
sure... that's why they have retconned almost every single thing.
BL guys are a bunch of shitters.
If he stayed, then the oldcrons would still be a thing.
No thank you.
>that's why they have retconned almost every single thing.
Because they think retconning the fluff will sell more books, yes.
they would had been improved.
And believe me that oldcrons where better than "space tomb kings teaming up with blood angels and pushing buttons.