/tgesg/ - Weekend Elder Scrolls Lore General Anonymous

>Can you point me to that interfering from time to time?
Akatosh literally appears in the middle of the Imperial City and facefucks Mehrunes Dagon.

You're right, most of them did lose most of their power. The two times you mention are both Talos, who is a Divine but not an Aedra.

To be fair, you do also meet an avatar of Mara in Morrowind. This could be a product of mythopoeia, which feels like a cheap excuse sometimes.

Totally different circumstances.

>Can you point me to that interfering from time to time?
Convention.
Granting blessings.
Forging Pelinal's stuff.
Morihaus-Breath-of-Kyne.
Akatosh's Covenant with the Empire and his interference in the Oblivion Crisis.
Kyne breathing life into the Nords.
Mara manifesting as Ama Nin.
Standarr having an actual, physical hammer.

It doesn't even matter if it was actually the Divines or not, or if it even happened, as long as people think it was the Divines.

>Why is so much value put on the Aedra.
Because people believe in them.

You're making two huge flaws here. First, you're assuming that your knowledge as an actual person in the real world what has read a ton of TES lore is very transferable to an average in-universe Colovian dirtfarmer. Secondly, you're assuming that the matter of faith boils down to "choosing the god that appears to have the most agency". And that's obviously not valid.

Daedra "mingle" with the world because they want to burn/murder/fuck/eat/read something. Aedra take an interest in the world because they like it.

This clarifies some things, thanks.

Wouldn't it be better to state that Aedra have a vested interest because they actually sacrificed part of themselves to make it be, whereas daedra are more "interesting, but I'm not giving myself up for that"

From an outside perspective you can, though, make distinction between cultural belief motifs, mythopoeia, and maybe even what "actually" happened. If you want to.

Sure, we as fans ought to try to figure out "the truth", but that's not very relevant to the question of "Why do people in the setting have certain religious views?".

The Divines still hold some power. Not only do they physically make up Nirn, they can still manifest themselves through avatars and other means. And if I'm not mistaken, they draw power from worship. I think there was even a term for this in TES lore, that you could achieve godhood if you're worshipped as one.

I did it n'wahs, I made the Valenwood map. However, there's 3 dungeons I can't get the names of. Could anyone who actually has Arena give me the names?

Is it good or bad that I don't even have to boot up the game to know this?

Anyway, the dungeon closest to Eldenroot (just south-east) is Selene's Web, and that's the only one you should bother naming. The two other are just random quest dungeons of no real significance.

You might be thinking of CHIM, where you can achieve god hood by basically realizing you're already god.

>Arnenthia
>Right across the border from Skingrad.

Still mad Oblivion didn't even try to do Elseweyr & Valenwood. Just a magic invisible "Nope, can't go there".

NEAT

Of course, right.

Mythopoeia.

In that case aedra are like the people who pitch in for a new coffee machine in the office and the daedra are the people who don't pitch but expect investor privileges, and when they don't get to use the new machine they make a fucking mess in the break room.

Daedra are literally the room mates who eat your food, deny it, brag about it, and try to intimidate you when you bring it up.

So Selene's Web is the only one uniquely named besides Elden Grove?

Dang, I hate having to fetch the maps from google images. I'm too autistic to live with those random dungeons on the map so I'll have to do it all over again if I can get a proper map.

Also, what's the name of that one town I missed? It's in the southeast.

Longhaven.

Thanks. Think you could get a 'cleaner' screenshot of Valenwood's map? With only Elden Grove and Selene's Web, not the random dungeons?

Kynareth has blessed us with another beautiful day here at Daggerfall.

stay warm comfy kitto

Because the Aedra are benevolent and literally a part of the world mortals live on.
They may not be as personal as the Daedra, but they definitely hold more influence over Mundus than their wicked counterpart.

Regardless, the idea of that the gods have 'power levels' is an incredibly shortsighted way of seeing things to begin with.

On Sunday. I've just left home for the weekend.

I've become such a lorefag that I'm replaying all the games with more lore friendly heroes..
Fucking help. My need for my playthroughs to work within the lore has taken over my playing of the games.

>lore friendly heroes
So like Talin?

thanks in advance

more like I only ever had 2 characters, a breton spellsword and a khajiit nightblade
it didn't make sense to me that a khajiit would be chosen as the dragonborn, and have the same skills and race as the nerevarine.
or that the heroes of Arena, Daggerfall and Oblivion were all basically the same Breton

it doesn't have to match the promotional material but it can't seem weird when I think of the series as a whole

It's really not.

It's good to see you, Knightanon.

It's can be so, nothing says the Nerevarine has to be a Dunmer with a grey ponytail. The Nerevarine, CoC, and LDB could all be Breton Gishes, or Khajiit punchcats for all lore is concerned.

They also kill your cat in order to just get some leftovers out of the fridge.

oh I know, my nerevarine's still a khajiit mage because it actually works damn well with the Azura connection and whole outlander part of the prophecy (also I love the irony of their greatest hero being reincarnated as a race they enslave)

but Khajiit dragonborn just seems off, there's literally no basis for it and unless you're doing a punchcat playthrough it just doesn't make sense that Akatosh would pick a random cat
Nords or Bretons work due to Talos. Imperials could be a loooong distant relation of some Septim branch. (Martin canonically had Sanguine's Rose at some point in the past, dude's bound to have some unknown bastard child)
I guess even though any race technically could be dragonborn I don't see why they would. Throughout all of history it's only been humans.

What are dragons but big cats?

winged argonians

Do you think gender specific terms exist for Knights, like Knight and Dame in Tamriel?

Basically just megalomaniacal lizards with wings; a cat is a narcissist mammal with a drug addiction.

There's absolutely nothing strange about a Khajiit dragonborn. The very concept is constructed to allow such a thing.

Okay faggots, riddle me this
>as per lore, Bosmer are actually ugly forest goblins with perma-glamor
>Khajiit Ohmes look like Bosmer, or at least close enough to be mistaken for one

So are Bosmer really imitating the Khajiit in their most elven forms?

Knights have historically been male, so it makes sense that they don't have a female equivalent name.

In Tamriel, Sera now means sir and Muthsera now means madam. Or it could have always meant that, and I misremembered how Dunmer addresses worked.

No, they just have a common ancestor, and that appears to be a remnant.

It's a joke on how they view Alkosh as "a real big cat".

Not Tamriel, just Morrowind. And Muthsera is just Sera+.

So are we then justified in bullying Forgot?

winged argonians are just the Sarpa tribe.
don't worry, they're shut-ins, they're harmless

No, everyone's just a Knight. It's a position/occupation, not really something gender specific.
ESO uses Dame, but a UESP search gives me not a single other occurrence of that term.

Nah, that wouldn't really make sense.

Is the "khajiit come in many different forms" thing still canon? As in that they can birth housecats, catgirls, larger cats, "normal" khajiit and everything in between?

Yes.

So.... Why have none of the gods or daedra done anything with/about the Snow Elves? From the divine perspective (we know that they at the very least worshipped Auri-El), it seems wrong/unusually cruel to let them become completely destroyed after ages of warfare, to the point of them losing their "black soul", especially at the hands of the "gods rejecting" dwemer.

As for the Daedra, surely there would've been Falmer who were desperate and aware of their position looking to make deals with someone who weren't the dwemer.

>All the Temples to Stendarr and his Crusaders are in the backwoods, small, irrelevant regions of High Rock
Come on, you can't expect me to be from some literal where place like Phrygias.

Maingame lore or ESO lore?

The gods can interfere, but usually not that much.

Main game.

Though places like Camlorn or Evermore might have Temples to Stendarr and knightly orders too.

Are you referring to where temples appear in Daggerfall?

Because that's not an accurate representation of Tamriel.

It is an accurate representation of High Rock, and Bretons.

No it's not.

In size, maybe. But little else.

I haven't played it myself, but wasn't most of daggerfall randomly generated with probably the exception of main plot important locations?

It was a procedural generation, I think, like Bethesda generated it randomly and then shipped it out after adding the important locations by hand. Kind of like the landscape in Oblivion.

Cities, including where temples appeared were set though.

And you think that's a 100% accurate rendition of High Rock? Like, if you were teleported to the actual Tamriel, it would look exactly the same with exactly the same amount of people saying the exact same lines and with all the houses on the exact same flat plane?

No, it wouldn't. Because even if the size is closer than the other games, it's still a vastly scaled down version of the world.

And temples to Stendarr exist in other provinces too.

But who wants to be a Breton in other providences?

Good point.

>hating on the province that has the skeffington coven
Besides, it's not like you have to be from any of those areas. You don't have to worship the regional deity, and there's still temples to them outside those areas.

There's no reason to assume that the regional deity system isn't correct. In fact, it's supported by the lore in the case of Daggerfall's Kynareth worship being plot relevant.

>And you think that's a 100% accurate rendition of High Rock?
No one is arguing that, you spastic. Stop acting dumber than you are.

Are you offended or something?

>It is an accurate representation of High Rock, and Bretons.

It ain't.

I'm just tired of pointless arguments that serve completely no purpose.

>It ain't.
I never said it was. You're shadowboxing.

It's not like there's anything better to talk about.

You might not have, but someone did. Not that it's a huge deal.

Dunmeri culture exists where Dunmer do. As of Oblivion, it is gendered.

Right, but it's still a Dunmer language thing, not a Tamriel wide phrase. You wouldn't walk into a court in Sentinel and be addressed by a Forebear as "sera."

How is it used in Oblivion?

>Liking any place that sounds like Skeletington Cove
I don't want to hear anymore rattling at night

You mean the people who are commonly sellsword adventurers in other provinces, looking for gold, glory, and a hill to call their own?

Just as I said. Look at the Dunmer page in Oblivion.

Skeffington Cover sounds pretty nice from what we hear of it.

Also, if you don't think conjuring spooky skelingtons is the tightest shit ever, get out of my face.

>Gold
>Glory
Petty, a TRUE knight does what they do out of duty.

>rattling
I'd be more concerned about the screaming skeletons.

no but a khajiit nerevarine AND a khajiit dragonborn make me wonder why tf the higher beings keep picking khajiit

>Humans that live a bit longer
>Bonus to magicka
>Dragonskin
>50% Resistance to magicka
>Cute petite grills.
>Intelligence, Willlpower
>Passionate and artistic.

Doesn't sound that bad. Fuck, if I could trade my physical attributes for higher mental stats or even magic in real life I would. Not being as jaded or apathetic, with more discipline would be nice. And in a world full of magic and curses, resisting them and physical attacks sounds good.

I can see the appeal, especially if you wanted to be an adventurer.

Not all Bretons are Knights. Some are just adventurers like Bards, Sorcerers, Healers, or Spellswords.

Am I the only one who doesn't get why people keep calling Hermaeus Mora a big bad all the time? As far as I know, the evil comitted by him ingame is:
>Make player gather one soul of each race for followers use in rituals
10 kills
>Make player gather blood of elven races to recreate dwemer blood
5 kills. And technically one could argue you could've gathered the blood from living subjects.
>Discards Septimus once Oghma Infinium is retrieved
1 more kill
>Gave Miraak knowledge of bend will shout
>Killed Skaal Shaman to absorb his knowledge

Sure, he's responsible for kills, but no more or less than most daedric princes. I'd argue he's one of the better ones, by mortal morals. He does not ask you for, on greater scale,
>Deceit (Boethia)
>Destruction (Mehrunes Dagon)
>Domination (Molag Bal)
>Instinctive Repulsion (Namira)
>Pestilence (Peryite)
>Nightmares (Vaermina)

Maybe I'm just being too autistic over this, but HM strikes me as mostly decent Daedra. But that could also be because he knows so much, but reveals so little. But from what we know, he cares little to reveal, even for an ultimate plan. His ultimate plan would be to know all, not complete domination or some other evil thing. (I am assuming that knowing all does not mean big brother style constantly observing every mortal 24/7)

He's also a trickster/tester/adversary type in Atmoran totemic faith.

But you can't be a great warrior with no combat related perks

don't forget all the souls he trapped in the flooded grove
he's a big bad because basically any time he gives a mortal information we've seen him kill them or enslave them immediately after, not to mention that gathering that information has normally required deaths of other mortals that will then have their blood/souls used
dude's more likely to betray you than clavicus vile and more likely to enslave you than molag bal

Do push-ups, run, train in armor/weapons, then make a spell to replicate Berserk/Adrenaline Rush or just cast Dragonskin. Maybe conjure a bound weapon and armor.

Unless you're being facetious. Hard to tell on the internet.

>just skyrim examples
Come on, user. Apply yourself.
Most of the Ysgramor myths are about overcoming Herma-Mora's vile treachery.

He's a big bad because he has no care for his worshippers, no concern for the ramifications of his schemes, and no reservations about doing anything as long as it results in him hoarding more knowledge. He's "less evil" because his goal isn't domination or murder itself, but he has no qualms about using that to get where he wants. He's no less amoral than any other Prince. Ranking them is kind of pointless.
He's a total and irredeemable asshole.

>Using Conjuration
Whats it like being a supreme fag?

But he isn't a big bad, which means the primary antagonist. That title would go to the daedra princes who actually concern themselves with utter destruction and dominance of others, those being Molag-Bal and Mehrunes Dagon respectively. The others are irredeemable assholes, but most of them are more concerned about fucking around with their followers and mortals in general than going full fuck force across Nirn. Remember, Herm's modus operandi is using others and taking from others as he pleases, but he limits himself generally to individuals rather than communities. And destruction and dominance over everything would go against his desires, that being the ability to gather all the knowledge in existence and discovering new knowledge before unseen. After filling Apocrypha with every single piece of data in existence he would become obsolete as he could no longer play with mortals either since the entire creation is bent to his will.

>just skyrim
That first one is oblivion, and as far as I can recall he has no active role in Morrowind. Admittedly, I haven't played Arena or Daggerfall, or ESO.

Also, it might be me associating evil with DASTARDLY EVIL PLOTTING in the more classical way. He's evil more by inaction than actual action, I guess.

>But he isn't a big bad, which means the primary antagonist.
But neither are most of the ones mentioned as examples of bad Princes in the post I replied to.
I'm not really concerned with him being a primary antagonist or not, I just want to dispel the notion that he's in any way not a amoral, corrupt spirit.

>more by inaction than actual action
Both, his actions are also problems.
His interactions with mortals are in general almost exclusively negative, unless you happen to be some spectacularly useful cultist. That said, if you ever stop being useful he's kill you without second thought if that would teach him another way to skin a Horker.

>After filling Apocrypha with every single piece of data in existence he would become obsolete
wait.... does that mean Hermaeus Mora's true form is...

Pretty good, as long as I get to keep pitching to fags like you.

Too bad you can't Conjure a pair of balls to fight like a man

>4 characters into Skyrim and I'm only just now playing the obvious Nord stronk not-Conan angle.