Flames of War General: If you kids keep arguing I am turning this BT-7 around

I think artillery is a must to attempt to keep the milans pinned. Cheap tanks with DFS like Leo 1s should also help block the milans LOS on their following turns. They can blitz move, but they will give up being dug in (and gtg if they shoot).

Also, I think that most british players will only bring 4 tracked rapiers as AA. You might be able to directly attack them at the beginning of the game, sacrificing some air units for air superiority for the rest of the game.

>You don't need tactics when you outnumber someone 10:1
The best ratios the Soviets ever had were slightly better than 3 to 1 in strategic manpower, and even if we are generous and say these numbers are waaaaay off and they had double that, we still aren't close to 10:1.

>, and indeed they didn't. 14 soviets died for every german
Not even close, here are some rough numbers:

About 10 million military personnel were lost by the Soviets. 3.5 of those died in captivity. This makes about 6.5 million combat casualties.

About 4 million were lost by the Germans on the Eastern front, 370k of those died in captivity. This makes about 3.6 million combat casualties.

This gives you a ration of about 1.8 Soviets per German, 2.5 if we are generous and count starved/worked to death/slaughtered POWs. 14:1 my ass.
I don't even like Soviets that much, mate, I am more of a Britophile but rabid Nazi glorification like that, which seems to be taken straight out off Enemy at the Gates really makes me angry.

Dude, he's spouting memes to troll people. Don't feed the trolls.

>I am more of a Britophile
You sir, i like you.

Was playing T-72s, no cheap tanks or DFS there. Artillery is hard to work with when the OP is so easy to kill and they bombard on 5+. I could've maybe been more aggressive about getting into machinegun range but chieftains are a bitch on the defence, especially with abrams applique.

The Soviets weren't just fighting Germans. They also fought italians, hungarians, romanians, finns, french, and probably other people I forget. Some guy calculated that when you include them it comes to 1.1:1, or something silly, which isn't bad given the massive losses in Barbarossa and the subsequent rush on Berlin that took them through multiple prepared defences and city fights.

>This gives you a ration of about 1.8 Soviets per German, 2.5 if we are generous and count starved/worked to death/slaughtered POWs. 14:1 my ass.
Also he's got 14:1 by including total soviet deaths.

Also kill/death ratios are a really dumb way to say how your war's going.

>Now, according to the International Institute for Strategic Studies there are 60,000 tanks in active service worldwide, with China boasting the most (about 7,450) and North Korea (3,500), Russia (3,300) and India (3,250) bringing up the rear.

Holy shit I knew best corea had a war boner but having half the amount of tanks china has?

Mostly bad knockoffs of the T-34 and T-55 with no fuel. Those still count, right?

don't forget all those shitty Ch'onma-hos. Shitty T-62 knockoffs are wonderful, just not for fighting a war.

r8

Finnish EW Panssarikomppania

Panssarikomppania HQ
2 T-26 - 95 points

Panssari Platoon
4 T-26 - 190 points

Panssari Platoon
4 T-26 - 190 points

Panssari T-34 Platoon
1 T-34 - 355 points

Jaakari Platoon
4 Jaakari squads - 170 points
Close Defence team +5 points

Armoured Car platoon
3 BA-6 - 205 points

Artillery Battery
4 76 K/02 - 275 points

Total 1485

People in the last thread asked about my Soviet list, so:
>Berlin Assault Group, 2nd Guards Tank Army
>officially consisted of a tank company, an SMG company, self-propelled artillery platoon, 1-2 AT guns and random combat engineers
So how do we represent this? Well, this is a pretty solid list of combat platoons here similar to a forward detachment. Assault group specifics varied wildly so we have an excuse for support platoons as well.
>why don't you just use Hero lists my man
Besides being pretty shitty, they actually reflect operations in 1943 more than anything else. During that year the tank army would regularly fall to such comically weak levels you could feasibly run every tank in the army in a single large game. Losses were atrocious and the concept of a small ragged band of veterans doing the impossible fits best for mid-war Soviets. By 1945 this particular unit remained in a good state even after combat, partly due to competent logistics and more so increasing competence. The MW version of this will be closely related to existing Hero lists.

This is intentionally rambling as it helps me go through my plans for this. Back to the assault group list, you would have
>Fearless Veteran
>Always Attack
>fyi these are normal strength units
>1 T-35/85 tank company (permit as few as 3 tanks because holy balls expensive)
>1 SMG company (with panzerfaust options)
This will always be mandatory. Working in the AT guns is rather harder, because players should want them. Might want to let them always start on table. I had to bail my parrot out of something so I lost my train of thought.

ZIS-2, right? Those things are amazing, you want them anyway. They move as light guns and are RoF 3 AT 11, that's a solid panzer puncher.

Yeah, they had no 45mms in the army at that point. They mentioned hauling them up to roofs to permit better fire. Also no H&C which seems obvious but it helps to point everything out.

The only stat difference I was so much as considering was making the SU-100 ROF 2 as they performed stellar in Berlin, got nothing but praise for accuracy and building-wrecking.

Lack of H&C and vet are probably enough.

Holy shit, why am I only now seeing this work of beauty!?

Maybe give them the begleit thing of being able to serve as a dismounted platoon or tank escorts?

Veeky Forums - we have Tanksgiving this Saturday. My FLGS is having a 500 point roster for any army in WWII.

What's the best German List? I have LW tanks.

Thanks!

two reluctant trained king tigers at 430 points

I don't know the exact point values off the top of my head, but I think you can fit either 3 Panthers OR 4 Panzer IVs into 500 points.

94 points of west germans assembled.
Now we wait for the restock of NATO spray.

Nice.

What's in the list?

I can see Leopard 2s, PAHs, Luchs, and Geppards.

Panzerkompanie
7xLeo2
2xGepard
4xLuchs
2xBo105 Helis

LARS are next.
>and then Leo1, Fuchs, grenadiers, etc

No idea how I'll get a single M-113 though.

Direct order it from BF's website. They sell sprues for single vehicles now.

Now why didn't I think of that?

I think you can purchase single sprues online from Battlefront.

because the shipping is a bitch

>4 Panzer IVs
You can fit 5 FV ones into 500.

choked on my coffee laughing. thanks

Are there any good ways to get cupolas, and specifically just the cupolas, for Panzers? I need them for my beute but I don't want to shell out for a whole kit I can't use.

flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx?art_id=2785

actually tho

Is the minimum for US Ranger list in Battle of the Bulge (p. 126) a Battalion HQ, two Ranger companies and then either a third Ranger company or one Mortar Platoon? I'm new to this whole thing, so I'm kinda confus by this particular chart.

Christ those look like shit.

Welp might as well get some Zvezda Pz IVs, at least they're only £3.

You have to have one choice from each box shaded black. After that you are free to pick from any other boxes you want, so long as you never pick more than one choice from a given box.

So in this case, yes, you do need those three compulsory choices, and the third one can be either a ranger company or the mortars.

That's what I thought, I just wasn't sure about the third mandatory choice.

Either that or you talk to some of your local German Players. If they're like me, they're usually sitting on a couple of Cupolas apiece because you always have a few left over.

Yeah, that's understandable. Most lists are 2, but there are a few with 1 or 3 compulsory choices.

It wasn't really the third choice that threw me off, it was how the third choice could be a Mortar Platoon or a Ranger Company. I wasn't sure if both of those were compulsory, or I could have either of them as my third mandatory.

Does anybody have experience with PSC's Soviet Infantry?

They're okay. They're skinny and a little soft compared to BFs and don't have round bases (they're longer and more awkward to fit on those slotta things, though you can do it with clippers), and a lot of them are 2 part which I can guarantee 100% will involve some degree of gluing your fingers together. I would personally say wait until they get redone or something but they do include one of the few female soviet minis in 15mm. I would personally get BF's box in this case (same for the US, but the Brits and Normandy/Early War Germans are more or less interchangeable).

Cheap. Somewhat limited poses. Smaller proportions than the heroic scale BF and later PSC minis. Unique woman combat medics. I prefer the battlefront models, but I plan to use my PSC dudes for tank escorts and a straf batalon.

>two part 15mm infantry
For what purpose?

Posing or swappable weapons. If you use some nice plastic cement it's not too much of a pain, though doing it 100 times is kind of tiresome.

Perkele/10
Looks solid. Shame you couldn't take pioneers rather than the Jaakari.

I have a close defence at least, but yeah. I already had to knock 4 off the BA-10s to fit under.

So now that Team Yankee has more than 2 factions I'm debating getting into it.

Are the Brits just Brits, or is it like WW2 where you have sub lists for different parts of the UK? Can I run Canadians?

Also; are infantry much of a thing in TY, or is it all tanks all the time?

Mech Infantry exist, but Tanks are the shit and will always be the shit.

Well I get that, I'm just worries the game will be "bring a list that's 90% armor or get the fuck out."

I mean it's not just tonks, it's also helochopters and anti aircraft guns and artillery.

But it is gonna be largely AFVs, I mean warfare in the 80's is thoroughly mechanized.

Except that my take on TY Brits make it seem like they were designed with the infantry player in mind.

Some of that is strictly the airmobile infantry, but even their regular mechanized infantry seem a step up from other NATO infantry.

That's good. I want to make sure that spending points on infantry won't be a "you lose" button. I get it's heavily mechanized, but combined arms is a thing.

true true, and they get a full on milan platoon to compete with other countries tonk

it won't in general. I feel like west germans would have a hard time of it since their platoons are so small

brits and soviets get helicopter-mobile infantry tho

How reasonable/realistic would it be to model engineer-sappers with not everyone in body armor, but only 2 or 3 out of 4 on each base? (which might go lower on some of the special weapons, of course).

For the sake of discussion, assume it is noticeable that not everyone is armored (I for one will know)

I would not have a problem with it at all. It's entirely possible some members of the unit lost their armour during combat, discarded it (even if temporarily), or there simply was not enough armour to equip the entire unit. Wargames units tend to look a lot more uniform/perfect than happened in reality.

Infantry can be very effective in TY. I run Aufklärungs recon infantry. Despite only having 4 stands (one being a milan). Digging them in makes them very sticky. Infantry have trouble assaulting the mg teams. Panzerfausts can pose some threat agains MBTs and shred APCs. The single Milan can poke at far away armor.

Now for the Brits, take this and scale it up a factor of 2.5. Mechanized infantry will be able to hold out. Just keep your Carl Gustavs alive. Airmobile platoons can get a shit ton of milans, but I would deploy them in a support position. Putting them anywhere MBTs would want to be attacking will just result in being smoked and getting run over by tanks they can't even bail because they don't get Carl Gustavs.

Anyone seen pics of these kits yet? I can't find them.

GBX89 Puma Panzerpah Platoon (plastic)
GBX90 Limited Tiger 1E Platoon (plastic)

Among other things some LMG gunners and all flamethrowers weren't given them.

Not seen yet. "Soon". "Next week". "Before Christmas", etc.

I thought the Tigers were going to be released under the TANKS brand, and not specifically for Flames of War.

It's both.

I think that's just an initial release that was publically shown? BF would be pretty daft not to release plastic Tigers to the FOW community.

Well the puma kit for TANKS is out on gf9 website so you can see some assembly stuff

I would assume that they will release single plastics for TANKS and platoon boxes for FoW.

According to the email my store got like a month ago it's a box of 5 Tigers that also includes everything needed to use them in TONKS.

Zvezda put up their 2017 Catalog.
The only things FoW related that are gone be published are:
- IS-3
- Maus
- Sd.Kfz.173 JagdPanther
- Sd.Kfz.186 JagdTiger

Sadly, no updates on Hot War so no new TY stuff.

Link?

I'd love to see the previews if there are any.

>No T-55
>No non-shit M1
>No M-60

They don't want to print money. Or perhaps Team Yankee isn't making as big of a splash out east.

>- Maus
I don't know which is worse, that they're releasing this, or that it'll most likely sell like crazy.

That we're going to have people whining for stats for it and the IS-3 in FoW.

There are the unofficial Late War Leviathans stats that we came up with, but the key word there is obviously "Unofficial".

They both at least might've seen combat, unlike 10.5cm tigers or E-50s.

>Jagdtiger

Fuck yes.

Dunno, it's interesting that this year FoW related stuff got a lot of love - T-34 both versions, Lee, Stuart, Sherman 76mm - just to name a few... so it's interesting that next year they publish only two tanks (Jagdpantnher and Tiger were meant for this year, IIRC) - and both are rather obscure (well, Mouse is. IS-3 is only usable in FotN).

Strange choice, desu

Somebody needs to do an affordable SU-76 so I can go full retard and I'm holding my breath for zvezda.

just proxy them as IS-3s. I am sure no one will mind.

It's been on the todo list for PSC for forever, they're probably waiting for the Eastern Front MW revamp for timing bonuses.

Do...do you even know how different they look?

I think he's trolling you dude.

I suspect it but you never know on the internet.

Say I'm an utter moron and wanted to play a Comet company. How would I go about doing so effectively? Got a good bit of experience under my belt, so the listbuilding is the tricky bit. 145pt tanks are a pain.

I think the general advice is that the Lorried Rifles are the only way they're viable. They're your Leo 1s, in that kind of scenario.

Finally played my first game of Team Yankee!

60 points against the Young Gun who'd ruined me with a list I'd helped him design.

Here's an assembled shot of all of my shit. One of the Hind's suffered a Magnet popped free from the rotors.

Command T-72
4x T-72s
4x T-72s
Mi-24 Helicopter Squadron with four Helos.
Air Assault Company with 4xAK-74 teams, 4xRPG-7 teams (Represented by British Infantry.)
2xSU-47 Frogfoots.

The Young Gun's Panzerzug

Command Leopard II
2x Leopards
2x Leopards
Marder Panzergrenadiers with minimum strength.
Luch (Stuarts)

Now the more astute of you may notice an important asset is missing. That's because the Germans are bloody expensive. Also it's why I was able to give him such a sound drubbing.

Mission is Counter Attack. Ignore the second T-72 platoon hiding behind that Crater, I miscounted the number of platoons I was allowed to deploy. Second turn they'll be pulled off by mutual agreement.
I'm defending, other objective is off somewhere to the left in a forest.

First volley of shots from the T-72s on overwatch completely ruins the shit of the Marders. No survivors. The Young Gun is Dashing to attempt a flank march.

And then this happened.

And then this happened. I may need a Tall Flight stand at some point.

Pictures missing: T-72s and infantry arrive from reserves Turn Three, Gunnery Duel between T-72s and Leopard IIs ends in the favour of the Soviets.

End Result: All FASCIST CAPITALIST IMPERIALIST PIG ARMOUR DESTROYED FOR LOSS OF TWO T-72S AND EIGHT MISSILES.

[Cheeki Breeki Intensifies.]

Just a little goof.

>Not bringing any dedicated AA to a game of Team Yankee.

You can't tell me he couldn't find 5 points to stick a couple of gepards in. Also not sure why he deployed his marders in a place where they could get shat on by T-72s on turn one.

As to the Gepards, Neither of us owns more than what's in our starter boxes really. I bought another box of Hinds, he built some Infantry. I really should have my own AA, or some artillery.
As for the dash mistake? I'll chalk it up to a lack of experience. Still a Young Gun after all.

Just a thought for next time; luchs are actually fucking huge so the Stuart might not be a perfect stand in. I can take a comparison picture later tonight

I got u senpai