Rape in the campaign

>Either normies are incredibly gynocentric, or they have an incredibly fucked up moral compass.
This. Rape which is basically a brutal assault gets everyone shaking and quivering, but cleaving off limbs and torturing people to death is perfectly alright.

I don't get triggered by it per se, but since 99% of the time it's just the "that guy" of the group being an edgy/childish arse it's best to keep it out of there.

A powerful dragon in heat is wildly rampaging through town.

Are you a bad enough dude to rape it into submission and save the town?

It depends on the group and the campaign. Seriously, it's like asking whether it's okay to watch movies with gratuitous levels of sex and violence. By yourself? With the proper friends? Sure. But you probably shouldn't put it on for the little kids at your next family gathering.

I have an ex boyfriend who completely and utterly failed to understand this concept. I found out that he jerked himself off to hardcore porn while his 8 year old nephew was in the same room.

Needless to say, he's not my boyfriend anymore.

>Be 10 years old or something
>Dad is watching tv (it was 9 pm or something on a friday night)
>One of the Chuckie movies starts, the movie begins with one of those government warnings that it's for audiences 18 and up
>"Come join me, user!"
>Dad ignores the warning
>Mom doesn't say anything
>I'm the one who has to point out it's an 18+ movie and I'm way too young to be watching that
>Dad calls me a pussy

Yep, that's pretty typical of gays like yourself. You should reform your wicked ways before god punishes you.

My dad took me to see Alien when I was around 8. MAN THE FUCK UP.

Now excuse me while I go to bed with this flamethrower. You know, just in case...

My friend's dad took us to see Jaws in the theater when we were in elementary school. Decades later, I'm still uncomfortable swimming in water I can't see through. An unlit pool at night is spooky to me, even though I'm pretty sure that nobody snuck a shark in there when nobody was looking.

He also took us to see An American Werewolf in London, which freaked me out enough that I had to spend part of the movie in the lobby playing video games. It gave me nightmares for a good while.

The pornographic stuff I managed to get a hold of? As far as I can tell, it had no negative impact on me, unless you count masturbating a lot during puberty as a negative impact. And I'm pretty sure I would've been doing that anyway.

Extreme sadism is essentially a big no no altogether in my campaigns. It's a fade to black thing or something that is reported to after the facts by NPC's. I don't do it in graphic detail. I may get a rise out of it sometimes, but I probably wouldn't want to host a game for a group of people that'd also get a rise out of it.

Yeah, that's an autistic lack of understanding about the fundamental rules of human interaction.

I say we take off and nuke the area from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.

>Extreme sadism is essentially a big no no altogether in my campaigns.
Unless every encounter starts with "let's talk this out!", you're a hypocrite and a pussy. You don't shy away from killing people in one of the most painful ways imaginable (stabbing or crushing, if not outright frying them with magic) yet a woman getting her titty fondled is too "sadistic" for you? Fuck off, you hypocrite.
>B-But we don't describe the men dying in detail ;_;
That doesn't change that they're dying. And if details make your dick contract into your body like a facsimile pussy, how about not being detailed in your description of rape? Or why not just show the aftermath without showing the actual deed?

This

But user, hurting imaginary people is my only outlet for my feelings.

Getting brutally assaulted for over a minute is indeed more sadistic than getting stabbed in the gut and dying in less than 18 seconds or bashed in the head and dying in less. You're essentially running this shit like an action movie. You're killing the monsters and the orcs and dispatching them quickly. Most players enjoy their actions movies à la lord of the rings or conan or die hard.

If you want to have your stark gaze into the human soul where Christopher Walken blows his fucking brains out at the end of the campaign after you've found him or Martin Sheen locks himself up in a hotel room with a fever, booze and smashing a mirror or the player decides to drive a taxi and shoot the pimp of a child prostitute, then whatever floats your boat, but the game doesn't support that play style (How many months of therapy does this monster inflict?) and the players don't expect this either.

In no way, I'm saying that death is less bad than rape, but fantasy murder of literally monsters is accepted and doesn't trigger empathy or whatever, while suddenly makes things extremely edgy while it doesn't need to be.

>Getting brutally assaulted for over a minute is indeed more sadistic than getting stabbed in the gut and dying in less than 18 seconds
>In no way, I'm saying that death is less bad than rape

>Thinking that dying is like the movies where people die in a few seconds from getting poked with a knife or bonked on the head
Nah son, nah.

>tfw you will never rape Persephone

Hard Mode: It's male

Less sadistic =/= less bad.

I'd rather have my toenails pulled out than be shot in the head, but toenail-pulling is the unjustifiable (unless you believe in the efficacy of torture against all evidence) act of a sadist; shooting someone may be legitimated I'm various ways.

We have a young girl in our party. Last session her and another PC were abducted by a gang of thieves. We tracked down their lair and while we were fighting the rogues, we managed to free our guy.

We started hearing distressed screams and pleas for help from a familiar voice. We followed the screams and we found her about to be raped by 2 of the criminals.

Running in their base looking for her while we knew what would have happened if we took too much time was very stressful but overall was a good roleplaying experience.

>but fantasy murder of literally monsters is accepted and doesn't trigger empathy or whatever,
Because you are a shit GM and don't actually give the enemies any character or consideration and treat them like inanimate objects that are just obstacles for the PCs instead of creatures with their own feelings, lives and aspirations, you cold heartless monster.

Fundamentally I don't want to describe my players weird sexual acts.

I don't even want them attempting to fuck the barmaid and will give them chaotic tzentech herpes for being degenerates when they try.

Could rape be used in a campaign? Sure for narrative purposes of a gritty realistic war setting.

But people don't normally want to play those games. They whine when they can't shrug off 20 arrows, and a giant boulder to the face with a long rest.

So like are you saying that LotR movies should have been adults only because orcs get killed in them, but if there had been a gruelling scene where Frodo gets ass raped within an inch of his life that wouldn't have made it any worse (or more adult) than it already was?

Torture is effective though, the only reason it's not considered effective is because you can't just torture anybody and get useful information, you need to actually be sure that who you are torturing knows what you need to know otherwise you just get noise and no signal.

Also hurting people who have transgressed is an act of justice in many societies, it could serve that, or other legitimate functions in a game.

>chaotic diseases from Tzeentch instead of Nurgle

No, that would be rape for revenge.

I'm just saying that the casual approach our society takes to violence is rather disturbing, especially when it's in media intended for pre-teens. And yes, I also believe that gratuitous violence getting a 12+ label but a single rape scene shooting it up to 18+ is ridiculous. Let's try being consistent here.

No and I have no idea where you got that idea from.

I pointed out that getting stabbed or bashed doesn't actually result in a quick death. There's a reason people used to wade through battlefields slitting the throats of the battle wounded who would otherwise take days to die a slow agonizing death.

You choose to ignore this reality in this case in your games, but then you refuse to ignore reality in the other case. Rape has to be treated with gravitas, but you treat dying as an afterthought. "you stab the guy in the gut, he is dead a few seconds later without a sound, yay!"

>but fantasy murder of literally monsters is accepted and doesn't trigger empathy or whatever,

Oh I make my players feel guilty for murdering sentient beings.

I always ask them if they're sure they want to commit murder and they spend ages debating whether they did the right thing.

Defending your family falls under self defense.

Ok, this is beside the point. The point is: toe-nail pulling, like rape, is 'better' than killing in terms of its consequences for the victim but worse in terms of the level of sadism it implies.

I could still trust and be friends with someone who had killed enemy combatants in wartime or had defended their life by killing someone. I could never trust or be friends with someone who had tortured or raped.

While rape can be used as a narrative tool, in general, think about WHAT a rape-scene attempts to communicate;
You are almost always either:
>Setting an NPC character up as a really bad person
>Communicating a feeling of absolute powerlessness

Whether we are talking rape in movies, books or your campaign. These are the main uses. (Not saying there can't be others, just, these are the main themes of rape)

Now, for setting someone up as really evil, you can do it in a million other creepy ways. He could lasciviously powertrip and lick someones face, and you'd still establish him as evil and sexually creepy, without potentially alienating all your players.

For communicating powerlessness, to your players I will say this; It is very rarely a fun aspect of Tabletop. In fact, players usually respond really badly to even innocent powerlessness.
"The bard rolled a natural 20 to persuade, so you all go with his plan" is never really a welcome statement.
The players came to the game, usually, to CONTROL their character, not to have control taken from them.

All that being said, maybe you could use it. With some experienced RPers, who you are sure would be along for the ride. But I wouldn't

Why though? Sadism has nothing to do with how trustable someone is. As for friendship that sounds like your own judgmental hangup.

You forgot the other use
>Showing that your setting is not a happy place and they shouldn't expect it to be

You included justification for the first, while you treated the other two in context. Let's switch things around: would you trust someone who killed out of jealousy more than someone who tortured a terrorism suspect to figure out where a bomb was placed that would potentially kill thousands?

And even ignoring your ass-backwards argument about sadism, why is it fine to make someone a villain by saying he committed genocide, but does he somehow become even more of a douchebag if he rapes one little girl? Are we supposed to believe rape is more sadistic than genocide? GENOCIDE?

Just accept the root cause of your moral inconsistensy: in your mind, women are a privileged cause who should never suffer (as evidenced by the fact that in the eyes of many normies, rape becomes funny if the victim is a man).

>For communicating powerlessness, to your players I will say this; It is very rarely a fun aspect of Tabletop. In fact, players usually respond really badly to even innocent powerlessness.
"The bard rolled a natural 20 to persuade, so you all go with his plan" is never really a welcome statement. The players came to the game, usually, to CONTROL their character, not to have control taken from them.
A million times this.

Not him, but usually those behind genocide are several layers removed from the killing and maintain a certain distance from it emotionally, if he's a kinderfucker that's something he has to actually do himself in person and not just send an order down the grapevine.

Half anything.....

Yuk....

Scourge and Purge!

That's true. Also a use for it, but also something that could be done in 89429085432 other ways.

You have some valid utilitarian arguments but your hangups with gender undermine your argument. I'd distrust/personal dislike somebody equally for raping a little boy as for raping a little girl, and for raping a man as for raping a woman.

But it isn't really a "one or the other" type situation, you can do more than one

Not to mention as judging by this thread a lot of people think it's more awful than a lot of other things, it would probably be one of the more effective options.

>I could still trust and be friends with someone who had killed enemy combatants in wartime or had defended their life by killing someone.
That's simply because it's not something they went out of their way to do. It has nothing to do with the act itself being inherently worse.

Killing IS worse than rape. But you can happen to be in a situation in which you have to kill to protect yourself or someone else, which isn't the case for rape.

Torture, however, can prove itself to be a necessary act sometimes, as long as it's not done out of personal amusement and sadism.

After the fact is revenge, if you are talking about raping a man while hes raping your wife, I don't know what that is but it isn't any sort of defence and I think your family needs to be rescued from YOU you sick fuck.

But that's the point: rape can never be justified, whilst killing can. This is why killing is a regular part of most campaigns and is frequently sanitised, whilst rape isn't and can't be.

You have to defend your families honour user, if anything is worth defending it's your honour.

Let's say we have two people whose trustworthiness is otherwise unknown, but one of them has just expressed his kink for brutally raping people, I have reason to not trust that guy above and beyond him being an unknown quantity.

I'd trust neither, both actions signal a flawed understanding of the world as I see it. Also going out of your way to kill an innocent is proof of being beyond redeemable in a story perspective. If Strahd goes out to kill Tatyana or the hags kidnap children to turn into meat pastries, it proves he will never change. If Strahd goes out to kill a mass of what he perceives to be enemies, he's still evil, but maybe he can be turned to good use. Lawful evil vs chaotic evil and whatnot.

Inb4 alignments are shit. Just trying to explain an underlying mechanism

Double negatives suck. I mean to say. Dying is obviously worse than getting raped from like a utilitarian perspective. Being brtally assaulted for a lengthy period of time is extremely sadistic however. Does that make more sense, my guy?

Killing isn't justified though, it can be rationalized and people can tell themselves that it had to be done to get what they wanted, but it's certainly not justified.

And again; I'm not saying there can't be some justification for it. I'm saying you want to DRAW players into your setting. Sometimes, you might want to horrify them, but you want to horrify them in a way that supports and informs a narrative for them to experience.
Rape (especially if a PC is the victim) is a very alienating and uncomfortable subject, and something that may well make the PLAYER divorce him/herself from the CHARACTER, in the moment, and draw them out of the narrative.
At that point, they'll look at you, not as the evil NPC raping their elven ranger, but as their friend/DM, inserting something entirely unnecessary and uncomfortable into their happy downtime /w friends.

Which was my original point, really. It can be cool to horrify the characters, or even the characters AND players, but if it jars the narrative all to shit, you've just defeated yourself.

As long as they kill reactively, yes. If they consciously seek out a person to kill them, it's worse than raping them (unless of course they did something so awful, in which case it's a bit less horrible).

Person A: "I brutally kill people for fun"
Person B: "I brutally rape people for fun"
Which one of these would you prefer going camping with? I'd take the rapist anytime.

>you want to horrify them in a way that supports and informs a narrative for them to experience.
I don't see rape as inherently opposed to horrifying narratives.

>Rape (especially if a PC is the victim), is a very alienating and uncomfortable subject
Well I wasn't exactly suggesting raping PCs (unless I had consent before hand from the player), but I don't really think it's that alienating if it happens to NPCs. In fact I think it can draw them deeper into the setting where they have genuine empathy for them because it's such an emotionally charged subject.

>happy downtime
Not everyone plays these games to always be happy you know.

Depends, is person B attractive?

...Because their is certainly no way that could turn into literal clusterfuck.

Both are equally attractive.

>Sadism has nothing to do with how trustable someone is
Actually, it does. Sadism is useful to gauge someone impulse control and sociopathic tendencies. A exemple of that is Lavrentiy Beria, which was hated by everyone around him (even Stalin) and was only tolerated by Stalin because everyone knew Beria would be buttfucked once he fell from Stalin graces.

I want nothing to do with either of them, and if I am stuck in a tent with a guy with a penchant for forcible unwilling buggery I can assure you I'm not thinking "At least he's not going to murder me".

Like what 9/10, 10/10?

I personally prefer systems where rape is the primary combat mechanic, with different monsters and PC classes having different special raping techniques

If you get stabbed in the gut, you probably aren't going to die until dehydration gets you, and it will be two days of agony.

It's not fun to deal with in any way so it isn't in

Acting on Sadism perhaps, but not actually *being* a sadist.

Rape is nonconsensual, if you want it to happen it is just kinky.

well your here so i guess it did haven negative impact

No, if you get stabbed in the gut you die once your HP hits 0 :)

Stop dancing around the question and give me an answer.

It's a fucking hypothetical question, of course no one wants to share a night with a rapist or a murderer and of course no one would go "oh boy i sure am glad I'm with X instead of Y!".

What's your point, if the rapist is attractive you'd choose him while if he's unattractive you'd choose the murderer? That's interesting... but keep in mind rape is supposed to be something you DON'T want. Otherwise it would just be hooking up.

If he doesn't ACT on his sadism how in the hell does anyone know he's a sadist to distrust him. If he's telling people he's a sadist, he's an edgelord and extremely untrustworthy because he may betray you just to be edgy.

I'll fucking camp with the murderer because I know I couldn't live with having been raped, so the end result is the same.

But the rapist might not know I want it.

Anyways, a murderer is probably a more rounded person than a rapist and I'd rather hang out with them for fun. But you know if we are going to get up to hanky panky an attractive rapist isn't the worst person to go with.

So you'd prefer dying than taking a cock up the ass / being forced to fuck an unattractive girl? You're weird man.

>a murderer is probably a more rounded person than a rapist
W-what? We're talking about someone who chooses a victim, stalks them for weeks or even months, kills them in cold blood, and then carries on as if nothing happened.
Now, i'm not defending rapists, but killing is still worse than raping.

Hey, everyone has their hobbies, but at least the murderer doesn't go on about them all the time, with rapists it's "Rape this, rape that", it's boring, like just because you have a hobby doesn't mean you have to make it your life.

Stop fanwanking over MY hypothetical question and MY hypothetical characters!

Sorry senpai, didn't mean to steal your OC.

No, I'd be cool with it if it was David Bowie, but I have severe depression anyway and being raped would probably push me over the edge, if I'm dead either way I'd really rather not be raped as well.

To late, we've already shipped it.

Godspeed, user.

Murderer-chan and Rapist-kun.

Amazing countertrolling

Torture have other uses...Yes, mos of it is noise. However you can take advantage of i. Use it to fabricate stories for propaganda purposes. Make them claim crimes that they never commited and claim how fair an brainwash people.

What if it is standard procedure of the army as a way to enrich and humilliate hostile tribes?

>rape in self defense
I don't think thats a thing. Once you have beaten them to the point rape is an option you should be able to either just kill them or escape, if anything the act of rape would just make you more vulnerable to attack.

What if you are an innocent tentacle monster who is suddenly accosted by a party of "adventurers" (more like ruffians!) and your only natural defense is your soft squishy tentacles?

Is it rape if it a slave?

Holy shit i'm tired of these threads. Just go play F.A.T.A.L. then

No, other common loopholes in fantasy rape law
Elves
The undead
Tavern wenches
Sleeping ancient evils
A cat (fine too)

Let's play together user, roll for anal circumference.

I think I was kind of subtly fucked up by seeing a non-graphic rape scene everyone was watching on TV when I was a kid

Its blurry but I can't forget it was black and white and the guy was on top holding her down working away while she was crying and it seemed to go on for awhile.

Capefag plz go, killing the Joker is entirely justified

It's an immoral act done in response to another immoral act. Killing only begets more killing.

I'm pretty sure its still rape if its a tavern wench (Unless she is an undead elven catgirl).

It'll turn out she was the daughter of fantasy-Charles Bronson and now your PC's are utterly fucked.