Hektor Heresy

Which is using them. Look, we hardline shut down Ronin when he asked if we could make use of the slots, and if we use them now, it would be hypocritical.

If ANYONE is here, get int he IRC, we're having a holiday... social.. .thing. Come drink with us.

irc.thisisnotatrueending.com

#hektorheresy

It's not hard, just google it

As the acting herald of the reptile regent, I must accept

I'd rather not take extreme measures to keep the Mastodontii around. They were rewritten as a stopgap because some contributors wanted the roster filled out promptly and problems were continuing with the troubled Slot 7. Basically, if the group feels that Ronin's finished draft of the Dreameaters is an improvement on the Mastodontii, we shouldn't cringe away from improving the project by making the switch.

This is the best news I've had all week

Bump

So the problem with drop devastators is ammo, right? They can't wear those big ammo backpacks when they have jetpacks on. Well the solution doesn't really need to be found, they can just drop into position, fire their heavy weapons once, then ditch them and pull out their bolt pistol and chainsword. All the best parts of vanguard and sternguard vets rolled into one! Except specialist ammo. And easy access to power weapons. So maybe not ALL the best parts.

That's logistical retardation.

Ah, but if only we had a chapter that specialized in jump operations and had a much stronger than average industrial base! Then it would make perfect sense. And maybe if Aubs sees it, he's like, "Yo, Arelex, hook me up with some of that," or maybe he just copies him, I don't know.

Either way, it's tactically useful and viable with some legions.

Or, we keep some ammo and double the size of the jumppack. That would require specialised equipment, but the Zealots do have a spare forge world lying around.

>"Brother, cripple your maneuverability with this large weapon system."
>"Of course Brother-Sergeant, I'll still be more fleet than my brethren! And with the power of a meltacanon at my disposal, my brothers and I will be whirlwinds upon the battlefield! Now where will my ammunition for this beast be secured?"
>"Oh you won't get any. Just what's in the weapon will be all you have."
>"Pardon me, Brother-Sergeant?"
>"You'll only have the one shot, brother."
>"So let me get this straight, brother-Sergeant..."
>"Of course."
>"I, and my squad, are to sacrifice some of our maneuverability with this jump pack in order to lug around these weapons."
>"Correct."
>"As well as my standard armament."
>"Indeed."
>"But I don't get to have more than a shot or two."
>"Astute as ever, brother."
>"Then what do I do? Use this weapon of the Emperor's wrath as a bludgeon?"
>"If you insist. I suggest abandon the weapon once it is used."
>"So, to clarify, you expect Brother Varius, who has been issued a Plasma Canon, a relatively rare piece of equipment, to simply toss ancient instrument of destruction to the side as if it where a broken autorifle?"
>"Well I wouldn't say that..."
>"But that's what you expect to happen."
>"Er...more or less, brother."
>*sigh* "Who am I to question the wisdom of the Primarch?"
>"That's the spirit, Brother!"

It's hardly crippling manueverability if you fire the things right after you drop. The idea here is to have these guys doing a combat drop, firing, then ditching their weapons to charge. Fire and forget weapons are pretty common among drop troops because ammo reserves are hard to carry.

Plus your assaultmarines are just standing around looking dumb for the turnafter they drop anyways, because you can't charge on the turn you deepstrike.

>"So, to clarify, you expect Brother Varius, who has been issued a Plasma Canon, a relatively rare piece of equipment, to simply toss ancient instrument of destruction to the side as if it where a broken autorifle?"
Although this is a good point, and I think the Eternal Zealot version would probably not allow the use of plasma cannons and las cannons on these units since they don't have the crazy industiral base and archeotech foundries of the War Scribes.

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>Or, we keep some ammo and double the size of the jumppack.
That's called a land speeder, and they already exist.

>Fire and forget weapons are pretty common among drop troops because ammo reserves are hard to carry.
This is true, but they carry light versions of those weapons. And those weapons are never rare equipment or hard to manufacture because that's harming their logistics. So mainly light missile launchers is what we're talking here.
But this is a single squad, not an entire legion of the fuckers, thus making crippling assault troops with heavy equipment a redundant task when you could have 2 specialised units covering each others weaknesses.

But hey, this kind of design choice gave us the Bradley, and the F35 so it has precedent!

Combining things can lead to great things. But it usually leads to sub-par crap at best.

>It's hardly crippling manueverability if you fire the things right after you drop.
That doesn't stop it from being ridiculous. After the 29th plasma canon gets lost in the heat of battle, Logistics may begin questioning how useful this actually is.

>Fire and forget weapons are pretty common among drop troops because ammo reserves are hard to carry.
Yes, extra ammo is a pain in the ass. Which is why SAW, and got forbid 240 Bravo, gunners LOVE getting into firefights, so they can start expending ammo. But fire and forget doesn't mean fire and fuckin leave for the enemy to pick up. "Fire and Forget" systems are systems that you can fire and the projectile can guide itself to the target, but you NEVER just drop a weapon on the ground. Even when a soldier gets dropped one of the first tasks of a battle buddy not applying CLS or actual medical attention is to grab his weapon, or give it back to him if he's still good to fight.

>Plus your assaultmarines are just standing around looking dumb for the turnafter they drop anyways, because you can't charge on the turn you deepstrike.
Then why not just use termies or land speeders?

Look, I wouldn't mind this if it wasn't relegated to Missle Launchers and flamers, but I get the feeling folks want meltaguns and plasmacanons jumping about the field.

Yeah, to be honest I kind of already realized these issues last night, but I did so AFTER I told snek he could have his toy, so I was hoping I could justify it and not have to take it away from him.

I actually ended up making the War Scribes drop shooty types have combi-bolters rather than heavy weapons, as it makes a lot more sense to have an assault rifle and an underslung special weapon than a giant expensive metal brick.

You guys realize that jump pack dudes with heavy weapons is already a thing, right? Destroyer squads can take rad missile launchers.

Yeah, underslung weapons are the shit. The 203 grenade launcher is fucking awesome.

But sometimes we don't get to have our cake, nor eat it too

Sounds rad

Imperial Army traitor regiment concept

The Tiberian Meteors
pastebin.com/mWwPPdE8

Judge Dredd + ODSTs

So does primarch development happen differently in this AU? Because reading through your guy's wiki pages, I see references to primarchs's "childhoods" and "teenage years" and "twenties", which doesn't make a ton of sense.

Primarchs are fully mature in 2 or 3 solar years, so they aren't going to have distinct life stages like humans would.

Looks good, but three paragraps in a row you use After as the first or second word in the paragraph. Not really a error per se, just distracting.

Hah, whoops

"The fight began; Aubrey toyed with Vex, hunting his prey, slowly frying him"

AUBREY EATS PEOPLE

And in other news, Aubrey's entire backstory seems dependent on primarchs and legions that no longer exist.

WARP FUCKERY
A
R
P

F
U
C
K
E
R
Y

How so?

It just is. Read his wiki page. Bohemond, krans-whatever, their legions, and the children of armok, no longer exist.

It doesn't need that much altering. Just replace the Children with the Justicars, and then leave things ambiguous after the destruction of Lazarus to him bringing Hektor to Cadia a la Lorgar.

bump

Working on it, but the Zealots get priority

>Talking about jetpack devastators being OP...

Yeah, the AU has tilted too far towards "slow growth". There are a couple of OU Primarchs who might mature more slowly than the norm and certainly take their planet's age of majority as a salient event (Guilliman, Dorn, Perturabo), so the odd reference to age isn't way out, but it's something we should dial way down. I've amended the pages I'm responsible for and will try bringing it up with other contributors. Thanks for the catch.

I wonder if it's q coincidence that the guys with a well established society with good recording are the ones who didn't get a "grew fully in 2 years" myth.

How do terminator marines eat?

There are stories about terminators holding a position for weeks at a time, but they have to eat. Does that mean terminator armor has tanks of liquified food, and party staw rigs on the inside to drink it?

Power armor has systems in which waste is recycled into a nutrient paste that the marines can live off of for a while.

Well that's appetizing.

On further inspection, a singular character with something like this Would be pretty great.

I wouldn't go that far. Guilliman's growth is described as "unnaturally" quick and Dorn's early years are largely unrecorded. Only Perturabo seems to have an extended period in which he's talked about as a "boy" and is half the size of the warriors he defeats, and even then we don't actually know how long it lasts.

This seems like some improbable shit.

Yo, Roman, is your primarch's backstory a babylon 5 reference, or was the couro prido an actual historical thing?

So what exactly are the 18 Legions? Some pages I'm seeing the Crimson Teeth, some places its the Dream-Eaters.

I'm almost certain that it's a B5 reference.

There have been several change proposals for the Traitor Legions this month. The Crimson Teeth are gone for sure. The Dreameaters were drafted as a replacement candidate but linked into other articles before time - as things stand, they're unlikely to actually replace the CT, edged out by a rewrite of the Mastodontii. Things should be more settled by the end of the month.

that's a shame. I loved the ideas/aesthetic of the Crimson Teeth

Yeah its a nod to that show. Probably should obscure it a bit more but I was a little lazy for the writing.

The seventh legion has been notorious for its instability, the Crimson Teeth being replaced by the Crimson Eagles because they where bad, then replaced by the Dreameaters because they where creatively restricting, then replaced by the Mastadontii because of political cloak and dagger and interpersonal drama between autistic bitch boys.

Now one of our number is trying to mantle the Dreameaters and put them back in the VIIth slot, despite all odds. Bless his heart.

I suspect come 2017 we'll have either fever dream yakuza or cavemen in bawkses for good.

Don't make promises you can't keep.

Cals old Dreameaters cultural notes, I may end up using most of this.
docs.google.com/document/d/1oGHM_MSWB3upPjkPexQv5IP_wdelLwifZgA7JF1nuM4/edit?usp=drive_web

What do ya'll think?

Legion over the Primarch.

I have notes for Aubrey, don't worry about it, page will be updated as soon as possible.

I've started to add new stuff to the legion page again. Next up, the sudden but inevitable xeno-betrayal, ETA maybe by the end of the weekend.

>Respect is for life
So betrayers would still be afforded respect if they earned it?
But just having rank gets you it too?
How would this play out with traitor/loyalist factions?
My only suggestion here would be to give them a ritualised and authoritarian command structure. Develop that with deep beliefs in loyalty to ones superiors, while simultaneously and contradictorily glorifying ambition and revenge.

>Masks
Would they eschew helmets altogether, or are they just customised visors etc?
The latter seems neatest way to deal with this if not already planned.
Throw in to their tactics an exponentially increasing operational tempo (based around three principles of beginning, breaking, and the conclusion) and this will reference Japanese Noh theatre while fitting their current doctrine.
It would also tie the masks to something else, while developing the traditions on music and expression simultaneously.
Following on from that, you could also make the legion value visual aesthetics, to the point war becomes a sort of theatre.
Post heresy this would give them a lot of potential for interesting symbolic objectives.

So far the legion seems to be riffing heavily off the Triads and Samurai Champloo/anime in general... Which isn't necessarily a bad thing
Why not throw in John Woo tropes too though?

Thats my two cents anyhow.

As for the debate over Assault Devs.
I may have some ideas or solutions.

It may be glorious or fucking mary-sue.

I'll keep people posted, but the concept may be touched upon spiritually.

Pic related.
Or is it?

An assault Dev may work as a single unit that has highly specialized and bad ass equipment that doesn't see the light of day outside of 30k and End Times.

The same applies to an Assault Dread, although I can only really see the Contemptor chassis working, at least on an aesthetic level. Leviathans and Mortis would be too heavy, and the Box Dread isnt very sexy

Neat, I happily await progress.

The suggestions in aren't Ronins. Though he's free to use them.

The concept I have in mind is somewhere between a Dreadknight and a Centurion, leaning more toward a miniature Dreadknight.

A Digitigraded [Dog legged] Exosuit, with a marines actual legs stopping at the suits thigh.
No additional armour on the front, Weapon is connected to the suit via an exoskeletal arm, connected at the 'waist' of the suit, to assist with stabilization/keeping a hold of it during flight.

X-Bawks sized Pauldrons used as an ammo dump and an upscaled jump-pack.

Melee Variants lose the pauldrons and gain a chest plate, additionally gaining a sizeable shield

Usually seen in squads of three.

I'm having difficulty finding materials to show this visually.
I also suck at drawing.

There, I threw a concept into the ring.

I miss the centaur suits.

As post heresy technological shenanigans, or sooper speshul admech gubbins that sounds fine.

But visually, thematically, and technologically its incongruous with the vast majority of other Astartes gear.

Honestly the most elegant solution is to have a pack like this, , and in the fluff it's a downgrade from both dedicated assault squads and dedicated Devastor squads in terms of manueverability and ammunition stores, but on paper just emplace some restrictions on movement so they're not as jumpy as regular assault marines. Or something. Just none of that "dropping a priceless heavy weapon like it's a used firecracker" homosexuality.

As for a jumpin dreadnaught a Contemptor seems to be the best chassis to slap jets on. Fuck it, just make a new chassis, even.

>elegent

Not the word I would use.
I would honestly prefer to create something original as compared to slapping mini jump-packs on devs.

How's about "simple"

>Original
You a heretek, son?

Bitch I might be.

Here, this should be about right.

>tfw you realise the Eternal Zealots are actually pretty much a re-imagining of the Tau as an Astartes Legion....

You make it sound like that's a bad thing

Yes.... The Assault focused religious zealots are a tau "re-imagining"... Sure.

Eh. We basically had the Ecclesiarchy, Inquisition, and Mechanicum as Space Marine Legions at one point. Taking from the Tau bitz box is a misdemeanor by comparison.

You fuckers didn't notice that?

40
Fucking
Keks

So what do you guys think is the most interesting Legion/other force currently in HH fluff? (This may or may not be a shameless attempt to bump the thread, but damn it, I want answers)

Purely as a force? The Vetrovnak. They don't have interesting characters, but I like the concept and world-building.

Depends which HH you mean. If you mean canon, I'd choose the Imperial fists, as the HH took them from the most boring legion to the most interesting one.

If you mean the AU, then I choose the Black Augurs, because they bore me less than the rest of the AU.

Well shit, with this B5 stuff in mind, Uriel is turning into Bester in my head, they even look the same.

Lumey if you are around, can you come in IRC briefly please?
Should only take a few minutes.

You know what we need?

More fluff for the Ostish Warbands.
That should he our priority.

do it then fggit

Busy with legion rules, otherwise I'd help. If you have to neglect any warband, neglect the singers. I'll happily take up writing for them once I finish with my current project.

I should probably get around to fixing that some time. Though I guess being pretty big on consensus they'd shy away from strong, interesting characters.

Still looking for feedback.

I want to make a Chaos Warband of Nurgle themed around rust and destroying fortifications, Nurgle as entropy to all artifice, not just living things, but I don't know where to fit them in. Help?

I believe that some of the Heralds of Hektor specialise in destroying fortifications, maybe start there?

...

According to 1d4chan, the Steel Marshals were doctrinally focused on Siege Warfare. It'd be pretty easy to have a group of traitors leave the Legion during the Heresy

Never bump with bump.

What do you mean? You don't know where to fit them in time, or which legion, or what?

>The 30th Millennium was a wonderous era, full of technological wonders and advancement. The flourishing Imperium was filled with arcane technology and sweeping advances in the armaments of humanity. No clearer where these advances than in the ranks of the mighty Astartes, gene forged warriors equiped with advanced armour systems and bristling with devastating armaments. These marines where the strongest of the Imperium's warriors, and even in death did they serve. For warriors that where too stubborn to die or too valuable to loose to the clutches of death, the embrace of a Dreadnought's sarcophagus awaited them.

>The Dreadnought armour system was equal parts life support and unyielding weapon of destruction, a hermetically sealed prosthetic body that towered above even the mighty Terminator power armour. From the mythcial Leviathan pattern to the vaunted Castraferrum, every Dreadnought was an invaluable relic and bore an ancient, storied agent of the Emperor's wrath. Typically a Dreadnought lacks much of the fluidity and dexterity of his former body, and in some patterns, speed. To fill this tactical gap two Dreadnought patterns were developed alongside the Leviathan. If the Leviathan Dreadnought where to be an Imperator titan than the other two were Warhounds, Dreadnought chassis built to substitute some measure of defense for much needed speed.

>The Lycaon pattern has much in common with the Castraferrum, in that the sarcophagus and torso is similar in design. However it's legs have more in common with an Army Walker, giving the stature of a Contemptor, but with long striding legs that allow it to traverse over dangerous terrain much easier than a Castraferrum.

>The Cygnus Pattern is to the Contemptor what the Coruvs Power Armour pattern is to Iron. While the Contemptor has more armour and options for armament, the Cygnus Dreadnought has tactical systems that are vastly superior to the Contemptor, allowing the interred marine to have a sort of precognition on the battlefield. It's lighter frame affords it greater movement and dexterity, allowing it to wield a greater variety of melee weapons, as well as mighty jump packs, making it a fearsome pattern indeed.

or you could have them as a Steel Marshals successor chapter that turn traitor later on, whatever works best for you

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Where is everyone?