Sauron

Sauron did _________ wrong.

Sauron did several things wrong. These mistakes lead to his defeat.

That picture confuses me. Is it supposed to be Sauron as Annatar?

Everything.

He did some stuff wrong but he wasn't IN the wrong.

>numenor
>Celbrimbor
>world conquest
and so many, many more terrible decisions driven by a compulsive demi-god's inherently incorrect aims

Three lives worth of things

>He did some stuff wrong but he wasn't IN the wrong.

That's a pretty Frodo.

Have a pretty Bilbo.

Breakfast.

You know, I'm not interested in objecting to girl Bilbo, but if we're stuck with it, shouldn't there also be pics of Bilbo as a crazy old lady?

While we're at it, Ar-Pharazôn did nothing wrong.

Victory

>rebelling against GOD
>written by a Catholic
>not Wrong on every conceivable and inconceivable level
It's like you aren't even trying. 3/10 made me post.

I aware of that, being, at least nominally, Catholic. But it makes sense, you make two races, one is immortal,another get's some bullshit about "Second song",and "Halls of Mandos", and then sees how better Elves got it. This is fantasy version of what happens when you tell fedora tippers that God works in "mysterious ways".

Gotta trust in God's ultimate plan desu. Rebelling only leads to misery for oneself.

Rebellion is justifiable if another side does not meet it's end of a bargain, now, that other side being God makes it impossible. It wouldn't be a problem if the setting did not have "power corrupts" theme, Nazgul got rings that made them immortal, "oh whoops we be wraiths now". But I guess there wouldn't be a story then at all.

Point is, the entire universe runs off old/traditional Catholic logic. Rebellion is bad if your ruler is anointed by God or is his rep. It doesn't matter if you don't think you're getting a good deal out of this, God's Law wins. In this specific case, Eru is the very definition of Goodness. He cannot be evil or have evil causes or intents. His will is purely good and cannot be manipulated into evil ends without his say so.

Ar-Pharazon listened to ill counsel and got fucked up over it. At least, according to the Silmarillion. Which is an in-universe text written by Elves. Who wouldn't write nice things about people they didn't like, now would they?

>Rebellion is bad if your ruler is anointed by God or is his rep.
Thomas Aquinas and John of Salisbury say hi. But yeah, I understand, rebellion against God is different from rebellion against tyrant.

Right. It's myth, it's legend.

Then again, John Paul II said it was a sin to rebel against dictatorship unless it was Communist dictatorship...

Likely due to practical reasons, after all, popes did not support Poles rebelling against Russian empire because a) They though that at least some of the rebels would spread Enlightenment ideas, b) Russia would get pissed off and it would become difficult to run catholic church inside empire. Ideals are good, but Pope is not just icon of faith, he is politician too. Also, these things are not in bible user so perhaps have different schools of though on this subject of rebellion against tyranny.

>user
biblical canons

>written by a Catholic

Huh....you know, I always thought Tolkien was Anglican.

Should, but since crazy old hobbit ladies are not many people's fetish, there's no pictures.

oooh boy, you dont want to know how much of a hardcore fanatic tolkien was. i was always amazed how the man could balance his faith with his obvious knowledge and love for mythology

>i was always amazed how the man could balance his faith with his obvious knowledge and love for mythology
It probably didn't hurt that the old monks were the largest faction responsible for preserving ancient myth. Who do you think originally transcribed Beowulf, which Tolkien published a seminal translation of? The Church has long been a patron of the arts and sciences, including the study of pagan religions. In some cases, it was even incidental to their ends. Jesuits in China studied local spirituality and customs, dressed in clothes resembling traditional 'wise man' apparel, found common theological threads, and used them to make inroads evangelically.

Border security

>hardcore fanatic
there's a difference between religious devotion and fanaticism you know. He was pious and traditionalistic but I've never seen indication that he was fanatical or single minded in his belief. He was able to contemplate spirituality and entertain alternative notions, and was great friends with C S Lewis, a protestant. Both of these men were devoutly religious, but that doesn't mean they were zealots.

Have some Maiar

At least he built a lot of roads

all the roads sauron ever built lead from somewhere horrible to some other awful location, by routes unpleasant.

He was, truly, the libertarian nightmare.

Even the groom-goblin looks badass.

bilbo is a feale name anyway. The male form would be Bilba

anal sex

Are you trying to say that a language professor messed up a language he invented? And then messed up the translation of that language into another language he invented? And then messed up the translation of that into English, of which he was a natural speaker?

Are you really saying that?

No, I'm saying that he adapted the original language spoken by BIlbo and Frodo that he invented to a form that would be familiar to English readers.
It was in a letter that he wrote.
Actually now I'm not sure if Bilbo was a female name or not, but I'm certain that their original names where Bilba and Froda.

the a ending would make more sense if it was old English
not that I'm a expert or anything

I would like to read this letter

man's got a point

It's in the appendix at the end of LotR where he explains how he adapted the names of characters to Enlish, translating to common names those that had a meaning in their common language, translating to old english or latin those that had a meaning in Elfish that thus was not familiar to the Hobbit main characters, and leavign names that had no meaning untranslated, like Bilbo an Frodo.

>To their man-children they usually gave names that had no meaning at all in their daily language; and some of their women’s names were similar. Of this kind are Bilbo, Bungo, Polo, Lotho, Tanta, Nina, and so on. There are many inevitable but accidental resemblances to names we now have or know: for instance Otho, Odo, Drogo, Dora, Cora, and the like. These names I have retained, though I have usually anglicized them by altering their endings, since in Hobbit-names a was a masculine ending, and o and e were feminine.

ta, I'm off to read that

His baby mama.

>Sauron did _________ wrong.
Hitler

KEK
Though, to be fair, the hobbits only got past the Daughter of Darkness by having a Galadriel in their pocket....and Gondolin in their hand..........

>he even made up different linguistic conventions for the names that he had to translate anyway
Jesus Christ
Also, does this mean that Sam's daughter "Rose"'s name was transliterated?

He had relatively benign, possibly even noble, goals. He was just lured to evil by Melkor, and before he knew it he was in over his head and from that point on driven entirely by a fear of punishment. He'd have returned to the side of good without a fight if Valinor had made certain to him that he would be forgiven if he put the effort in.

Not wrong extratextually.

Literally nothing wrong because Eru explicitly tolerates the existence of evil.

B-but he had a wall and everything!!

Obviously, although I don't know what was the original name.
Furthermore Samwise was called Banazîr, an old Westron word fallen in disuse which means "halfwise, simple", and was typically shortened to Ban.
Gamgee is actually Galbasi, or in reduced form Galpsi, from the village of Galabas
>"popularly supposed to be derived from galab- ‘game’ and an old element bas-, more or less equivalent to our wick, wich. Gamwich (pronounced Gammidge) seemed therefore a very fair rendering"

And Hobbit actually were called Kuduk from kûd-dûkan ‘hole-dweller’. So he rendered it as hobbit from holbytla

All he did he did for Melkor. Stop this bullshit that Sauron is some tragic figure. He was evil. Tolkien wasn't trying to write some diatribe on ambiguity. Sauron was out to slaughter and enslave everyone to aid Melkor and he fucking reveled in the evil he caused.

Yeah - second and third ages would not have been shitfests if only the valar were not such high-handed unforgiving pricks. Their haughtiness drove Sauron away in fear; and so middle earth was doomed to suffer for 6000 more years.
Now, why would Eru allow this?
Sauron is the ultimate organizer, the number one servant. What did Eru want 'organized'?
Men? So it would seem...and he wanted the elves out of the way so that men could grow into their inheritance. So Sauron was driven from forgiveness and allowed to run rampant, driving out the elves and forcing men to stand on their own two feet and be responsible....Sauron was used by Eru to murder elves and elevate mankind.
huh, never thought of that before....gonna hafta mull this over.

So wrong, user - reed moar. Sauron was an efficiency expert, and knew how to make things more efficient. That was his power. He is not evil, he is misguided, mistaken. His drive for efficiency led to his drive for domination and power (so that he could effect his efficiency plans). It is this impulse that Tolkien was critiquing with the character of Sauron.

If extratextually, I agree. Within the context of the books, wron on every account.

I thought JRR converted Lewis eventually?

He was partially responsible for Lewis rejection of his apostasy and so back to Christ in a general sense. Lewis decided that Anglican tradition appealed to him more than Catholic tradition did. If I recall my Mere Christianity correctly it had most to do with confessions.

Sauron was a blacksmith who wanted to run the world and be adored in turn.

It was Melkor who corrupted him, and his pride that drove him to evil.

Your both wrong. He did not start out as evil, no being, not even Melkor did. Only Melkor started out going against the will of Eru, even though his motivations were not inherently evil. Every single divine being in Melkor's service began nobly, and entered Melkor's service believing they were doing the right thing, because Melkor convinced them. He then corrupted them, and they became evil.

>All this chit chat about whether Melkor's butt-boy did or dindu nuffin

Tsk tsk. You know, the Tulkster really likes humans for the most part. They're a pretty strong people, but boy, do they love making excuses. It's like I'm watching Numenor happen all over again, brother!

>Melkor's butt-boy

You know it.

we need to hurry up and get a live-action silmarillion adaptation before hulk hogan dies or gets too old to play Tulkas

Tom Bombadil is Ungoliant

what? read the silm before you post this ignorant nonsense. goldberry is ungoliant, tom bombadil is Maglor

this post brightened my day a little

>Sauron being this pretty
pls no

Secondary sexual characteristics are on opposite genders in hobbits. Bilbo's a girl. So are Frodo and Sam. And it explains how Merry could play a critical part in the downfall of the Witch King, who could not be slain by a man.

the bitch is running a whole damn blog dedicated to fanart of prettyboy Sauron

a woman of taste and distinction, then

Bet the Valar weren't happy about that.

He did at least one thing wrong or else he would still be alive and not dead.

>And it explains how Merry could play a critical part in the downfall of the Witch King, who could not be slain by a man.
that's because Merry was not a Man but a Hobbit

those dumbasses would suck Eru's dick no matter what
more specifically each Ainur represents a part of Eru's mind

>Sauron did _________ wrong.
his woman

Shelob is ungoliant?

He should have diversified his portfolio, putting all of your power into One Ring to rule them all is no good in today's economy.

He gets uglier...eventually.

to a small degree absolutely fucking everything

Being in Númenor during its fall messes a guy up, man.

Gotta love that guy lifting in the background, though.

His taxes

Sauron did _nothing of note outside of carrying out his master's will and therefore cannot be considered_ wrong

>doing women
That was the mistake.

There's no way Sauron could've been that cute, why do women to try make everything cute?

he was beautiful, and more to the point he could change his form to be as pretty as he wanted.

>He doesn't know about Mairon.

That's MELKOR holding his hammer. It's easy to understand why you'd love him, really.

...

Huh, so it is. I didn't see the lack of a shape on the other end, so it looked kinda like Melkor was doing deadlifts.

>Implying he wouldn't do that just becuase he can

Pretty certain even in Tolkien's books he did most of the stuff he did just becuase he could.

Wrong.

>Being in Númenor during its fall messes a guy up, man.

Urge to re-read Silmarillion and LotR rising.

No wait, I still have 66% of The History of Middle-Earth to get through.

No but some kind of lesser spawn.

I know how you feel. I started listening to Nightfall earlier, before youtube crapped out, and now all I want to do is write Sil fanfic.

Pic vaguely related.

Is this now a prettyboy Sauron thread?

When are they not?

Nope.

Prettyboy Tolkien charcters, then. And Suron is the best charcter so he deserves most art, of course.

>Prettyboy Tolkien charcters, then
Oh yes, that really narrows it down.

This chick (pretty sure it's a chick, considering how much of Thrandy they draw) is pretty good for pretty boys.

Though, refreshingly, she seems to know how to make girls look pretty too.

Mind you, I see only profit in my future.

And what list of Tolkien's women would be complete without his own woman?

Mm?