Warhammer 40,000 general

Will they apologize for overreacting when Magnus is revealed to cost as much as a Warhound titan and have crippling drawbacks? How did these retards forget that this is a CSM model?

I'm hopeful that he's strong enough that even my World Eaters and Iron Warriors armies will be called cheese without even running him.

Magnus is so overwhelmingly OP that he's giving that user visions of the coming Chaos clusterfuck. This time next year, the top five factions in the ITC will be Tzeentch Daemons, Thousand Sons, Thousand Sons (Chaos Space Marines detachment), Space Marines, and Sisters of Battle.

Go look at the ITC Faction rankings.

Going by individual players at the top isn't the data you should be looking at, because player skill varies wildly. The top ranked player uses fucking AdMech which are ranked almost dead center average of middle tier overall.

>CSM finally might be getting something nice
>people already planning on banning it

Yes I will gladly apologize if he's a useless piece of shit, but we all know that's not actually going to be the case.

But I thought the popular perception was that player skill doesn't matter at all. If Daemons are so OP, shouldn't every highly ranked player be playing Daemons? If the top-ranked player plays AdMech, isn't that proof that AdMech are capable of competing at the upper tiers and that the average AdMech player just isn't that good?

>as much as a Titan
>can turn opponent units into ally units
>not worth the price

There's a big difference between "something nice" and "something that will never, ever, literally ever die in 100 games unless he goes up against an opponent that literally fields 50 wraithguard"

I don't think he'll be a useless piece of shit, but I'm extremely skeptical that he'll be priced low enough to be worth more than his own cost in other daemons.

>Go look at the ITC Faction rankings.
You do realize those only rank players withing a faction, and don't actually rank each faction as a whole vs all other factions?

heavy weapon in a salamander flamer tac squad Heavy bolter? Missle launcher or nothin?

>Believing anonymous rumours on Veeky Forums
I uh.... Hmmmm.

The popular perception appears to be wrong given this information.

>If Daemons are so OP, shouldn't every highly ranked player be playing Daemons?
Not when Space Marines are still better.

There are also other factors to account for like personal taste and cost-benefit of starting a new army when you're already practiced and experienced with an almost-as-good one.

That leak is confirmed bullshit, and you're a retard for believing unsourced shit thrown out on fucking Veeky Forums.

That's not what I meant, I meant the overall rankings showing the Factions in relation to each other. Theres a huge post analyzing it on leddit somewhere.

HA! For years we've been the ones getting shit on! NOW WE WILL DO THE SHITTING!

save the points, combi-flamer on sarge
its so silly sallies cant take a heavy flamer

>literally wanting to be a heretic faggot angel that doesn't follow the Codex
w e w

For like one game, and then no one will play you a second time when you unpack that model.

I think 1ksons players should start resigning themselves to the idea of playing without their Primarch, and honestly it would be stupid if he showed up for every fucking battle anyways.

I bet you play orks.

then link to it faggot. provide the fucking evidence, don't just say it exists.

>not perpetuating baseless rumours for maximum shitposting
>on Veeky Forums

It's too bad GW doesn't believe in Black Friday, because I could use a discount on some transports.
I guess my FLGS is doing 20% off minis, but they don't tend to keep more than one copy of anything in stock.

Christ, I'm sorry google is hard for you:

https:// www reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/5agwhx/what_itc_ratings_can_tell_us_about_game_balance/

actually never mind. i found it. and it has eldar at number one with a mean of 85 points, then marines and chaos daemons tied for the number two spot with a mean of 80 points.

>reddit
Lol, fuck off.

Give me a real source.

Sternguard can

Definitely not the same thing I read, but then mine might be outdated by now.

>caring about the codex hurrrstartes
please go, rowboat
yeah, but not in tactical squads unfortunately

FUCK, witht he boxes I'm buying I'm going to be EXACTLY one melta gun and one grav gun short.

No! Every game we must drop kick Riptides, turn Wraithknights inside out, and juggle Imperial Knights! I don't even play 1kSons, but it will be beautiful to watch my Tzeentch brothers in chaos avenge our defeats at the hands of the cheese mongers , weeaboos, and WAAC fags! Glorious retribution will be ours!

>Theres a huge post analyzing it on leddit somewhere.
>then link to it faggot.
>provides link
>tells me to fuck off for providing link that was asked for
You're retarded.

Also who gives a shit if the analysis was posted on reddit, the ACTUAL source of the data used in the analysis is in the thread and comes directly from ITC.

You are goddamn braindamaged.

>Knights
>cheese
Fuck off Chaosfag you already got a better Knight that loyalists can only beat by fielding formations of Knights

his methodology seems to be really flawed. eldar get the most points on average, yet he ranks them as the number three army.

While everyone is talking about competitive, let me ask this:
Do you try to keep buying things to make the strongest list for each codex or do you just build a fluffy collection that works based on your preferred strategy?
Personally I like to fill out my troops and then get one of each auxiliary choice, two if I like the unit or none if I hate it.

ignore him. he didn't ask for the proofs, I did. he's just looking for (You)s

You asked for the link, the guy said it was from reddit in the post you're replying to. What the fuck, user?

ITC is just shitty house rules you stupid fuck.

Give me the results are real 40k games, actually played with the correct rules.

STATISTICALLY
20 Guided Wraithguard kill the rerollable 2++ Magnus
>in case Magnus Denies blessings on a rerollable 2+ or some shit
36 Wraithguard kill the rerollable 2++ Magnus

Someone make a shitty 60 multimeltas meme and talk shit about that instead of shitposting about retards overreacting to his statline alone

see

The correct rules are whatever you/your friends or the group you're playing with uses.

The GW rules are just the original.

So how good are the Thousand Sons ACTUALLY going to be? And on top of that, how good will the Legion formations be?

The Reddit/BoLS (but I repeat myself) crowd are foaming that this'll make Chaos Marines great, and at the very least one of the best armies.

I dunno about that, I think it'll ideally be somewhere around Necrons in power, but with good psychic phase at the cost of being killed a lot easier. As for Legions, I'm expecting something between jack and shit, although some sneeki breaks Alpha Legion rules (honestly just infiltrate and scout, that's all I need) and some IG tanks for Iron Warriors would be pretty neato.

As GSC I don't have an overwhelmingly massive range with a bunch of trap choices to pick from, so I just grabbed one of everything for variety and am now expanding with the stuff that seems more effective for making strong lists. I like the ability to tune my list to any powerlevel depending on my opponent. Players with nicely painted models are shown mercy if they cannot handle my top list.

No one knows shit.

No leaks.

>ITC is just shitty house rules you stupid fuck.
When will bad players stop using this meme? You guys don't even know what the ITC changes are (and they are mostly few and minor changes), you just hear "house rules" and sperg out because you can't stand the idea of not being allowed to abuse the unintended cheese in the RAW to maximum faggotry levels.

>Do you try to keep buying things to make the strongest list for each codex or do you just build a fluffy collection that works based on your preferred strategy?
yes. I've been playing long enough and am blessed to have a very good job so that isn't really a mutually exclusive thing.

Reposting my prospective deathwatch list, seeking assistance and guidance on playing deathwatch.

1850

Black spear detachment
Command-
ven dreadnought - missile and tl lascannon, extra armor

Core
Furor kill team (template death)
4x frag cannons, 1x terminator heavy flamer and melta fist, 5x shotguns
-land raider redeemer as transport with multi melta

Purgatus kill team
Librarian Ml2 w/bolter, tower shield relic, 8x vets with stalker bolters, 1x terminator w/cyclone missiles

Aux-
Corvus blackstar- asscans, missiles, halo kauncher

Allied Imperial Fists

ML2 Librarian w bones of osrak
5x tactical marines w heavy bolter
5x devastators w 4x lascannons
Imperial bastion with void shields, icarus quadcannon, tanglewire

Playing without ITC just makes the game more volatile and luck-based so it's much harder to draw conclusions about balance and player skill becomes less important.

ITC is also the most popular tournament format by far, so it is for all purposes the "correct" rules for competitive.

TL;DR you're a dumb faggot.

What's your plan here? What role does your command squad have if you're footslogging them? Is the Captain running on his own? Either go all Lascannons on the Pred or Autocannon with bolters or run a Baal pattern with Autocannons. If you mix and match then you'll be wasting shots (Lascannons are wasted on anything H bolters can hurt and H bolters are useless against things Lascannons are designed to kill.)

>the Made to Order stuff are still available

What's up with that?

He's ranking them based on both the average ITC score (sum of their top five tournaments) of the top 50 players of each faction and the highest score achieved by a faction (unless you're AdMech, in which case the top player gets thrown out because otherwise it shows you how much of a shitter you are). I think.

If I had to guess, Eldar have a higher PPG average because they dominate the lower tiers of play. While cut-throat daemons and battle company lists can handle Eldar, the lower tier armies are just getting shredded by them.

I really wish Renegades and Heretics weren't included as CSM. I'd love to see how CSM placed without those ridiculous Siege Tyrant and Master of the Horde lists inflating their numbers.

It was put up last Saturday and will be available for a week, so it'll probably be pulled tomorrow.

He is a Lord of War, 5-600 points. 130$ i saw somewhere

>people still get butthurt about ITC
>despite the fact that GW explicitly acknowledges them in their most recent FAQ and even had the guy behind ITC do a guest-post on their blog

I was asking because most of them were gone by the end of the weekend and even the best sellers only stayed until the Wednesday.

Lord of War and $130 price are confirmed. There is no indication of his point cost. We have his statline from GW, as well as some hints about his rules (access to an improved invuln through a detachment, access to two full disciplines of spells (likely CSM and Daemons disciplines of Tzeentch) as well as his own Gaze of Magnus spell, and a bonus to casting).

>He's ranking them based on both the average ITC score (sum of their top five tournaments) of the top 50 players of each faction and the highest score achieved by a faction (unless you're AdMech, in which case the top player gets thrown out because otherwise it shows you how much of a shitter you are). I think.
that is what it looks like. which is really dumb. sure highest score should be a factor, but just ranking that and average score and averaging the two ranks together? it's dumb as fuck. all we can really tell is that eldar, daemons and C:SM are the top three armies, but we already knew that.

450 pts.

It's new ground of GW (or at least old ground they haven't covered in a longass time) so they might be changing up their strategy since last month. The wait period for the order is 35 days now, a week extra over last month's.

Command squad don't have jump packs due to a bug in the system, just add on 25 points.

Captain goes in with the command squad and deepstrikes, more accurately than usual, with his special jump pack. The idea is both my HQs come down turn two after the worst of the shooting is over. the predator can move 6" and hunt av10-12 easily or do a mad 12" powerslide due to fast and give them both lascannons.

I think this one may be better, it swaps the assault squad that comes down for a tactical squad instead of a combi-flamer it has a heavy flamer, surely I can exploit the drop pods rule that my inferno pistol can melta at least one vehicle?

I don't think there's a right way to look at it. How would you rank them?

What Knight is that?

Kytan Daemon Engine?

>blood angels are objectively the weakest army in the game
Look at this you fucking chaos whiners, drop pods don't help!

UPDATES
FUCKING
WHEN
?!

You're not getting an update. You're going to be Black Templar'd. So are the SW.

>How would you rank them?
i don't know if there is a good way of definitively ranking them. I think the tier system, which gives a general indication of how powerful an army is without trying to create some formula to give them a quantitative rank, is the best way of doing it.

Renegade Knights holy shit
>it's not better
It has more build variety, 2 battle cannons is good, 2 avenger cannons is great. Loyalists cannot do that. All you really miss out on is the loyalist Knight formations.

You ALSO get the FW Chaos Knight which can be made a daemon and so can benefit from the Grimoire.

I'd be fine with having Wolves BT'ed so long as they can keep Blood Claws and Long Fangs.

Drop the heavy flamer, you won't be able to fire it the turn you land and then you can't charge if you decide to use it the turn after. Otherwise it seems decent, however don't expect your Inferno Pistol to kill any vehicles.

Aren't heavy flamers assault weapons?

Imperial Knights in formation are better than Renegade Knights. Solo Renegade Knight is better than non-FW Imperial Knight. Daemon Knight is better than Imperial Knight.

CSM rankings are useless since they include R&H, which are actually a pretty good faction.

The math guy essentially says that in the Reddit post. He talks about the top 7 as being significantly removed from the codexes below them, basically dividing them into two tiers. The only point of contention that I would have with his tiers would be that AdMech needs to be tier 1 since the top player in the ITC rankings plays them.

They are, and the Inferno Pistol has as good a chance at popping a vehicle as any Meltagun if you abuse the absurd pod ruling to get within melta range.

>Imperial Knights in formation are better than Renegade Knights. Solo Renegade Knight is better than non-FW Imperial Knight. Daemon Knight is better than Imperial Knight.
That is literally what I said.

Huh. I guess they are. Sorry, one of these days I'll remember that Assault Cannons are heavy and Heavy Flamers are assault.

An army doesn't die as long as there are still rules to play it. Black Templars have perfectly adaptable rules if you're willing to do a bit of cut and pasting.

They would have to release all their unique models and wargear as suppliments so we would just end up as our own book anyway, the difference being we have access to your formations and all the vanilla units we don't have access to.

I would love that, shotgun scouts and land speeder storms! It would be like playing dark eldar but not shit!

>That is literally what I said.
A, that's not what you said, even if the conclusions are largely congruous with your analysis.

B, you're massively understating the value of both the Knight formations and the FW knights.

Or we could go back to the days of 3ed "there are no wolves on Fenris" Space Wolves. I'd rather have optimized devastators and Leman Russes than wolf boats, wolf wolflord, wolfriders, wolf claws, and wolf icebeams

>Renegade Knights are better than loyalists unless the loyalists are using formations
This is literally what I said.

I'll admit I didn't mention FW IKs, but that's it.

Anywhere having any decent sales for black Friday? My LGS has 20% off what's in stock, but he doesn't have anything I need, which I kinda feel bad about.

>It would be like playing dark eldar but not shit!
Sh-sh-shut the fuck up, Dark Eldar are still better than scoutspam in storms any day of the week... R-right?

>asgard's games in houston
>25% GW merch
>mfw i already spent my tabletop fund for the next few months due to oop daemonettes and eldar get started box

oh well, there's always next year and ebay

that feeling when my local game store has 20% off of 40k minis year round

Hey guys, reading Horus Heresy, how do you pronounce Anteges?

Hard g or soft? s the last e silent or do you say it?

Fuck's sake. Antiges. Got his spelling wrong.

Congratulations, you trolled the entire deldar player base with one sentence, Cegorach is proud of you.

What's funny is there's a a store about an hour away that gives 25% all the time. I have trouble buying from my LGS because of this.

/ˈantJd͡ʒiːs/
t. Britfag

...

>cutting your losses and just not playing
10/10, would commend for his wise tactical decision

How's this for a 500 point KdK list using only the contents of Dark Vengeance?

500 KdK

HQ
-Chaos Lord, 75
+Blade of Endless Bloodshed, 35
+Plasma Pistol, 15
+Sigil of Corruption, 25
+Ichor Blood, 5
+Collar of Khorne, 15
+Combat Familiar, 15
Total, 185

Troops
-Chaos Cultists, 58
+Two Cultists, 12
+Heavy Stubber, 5
+8 Autoguns, 8
+Shotgun, 5
Total, 88

-Chaos Cultists, 58
+Two Cultists, 12
+Flamer, 5
Total, 75

Heavy Support
-Helbrute, 100

Total, 448

Pretty good, huh?

I know, at this point I should be an Alpharius.