/bgg/ - record breaker edition

Does anyone care about New Angeles?

I was thinking about a game with 12 castles and magic...

Lol but seriously what setting are you thinking about? What goal are you setting for your players? How many players? A cooperative type game or a competitive?

Those would be the first questions id ask myself, also /gdg/

Use something like Tabletop Simulator if you can to save yourself the trouble of reprinting and cutting everything, especially on the first few iterations.

And be prepared to iterate a lot.

You should already know your game, mostly. If you just want to make 'a board game', you don't have the spark that makes projects from non-professionals a worthy trade-off. Professionals can get away with 'just a game' because they've got the design skills and experience to make a game mechanically solid even if it's not inspiring.

You need to have an idea that you need to see work, and a board game is the only way you can see it working. Then it's something worth trying.

Then you have to design the entire game, top to bottom, and test it repeatedly before you even think about publishing it. There are no shortcuts. Every step you cut out of the game design before you try to sell it is one you have to do eventually - best case scenario, with a timeline and people hounding your shit to get it done, worst case that you never finish and your project fails and your name is mud in the BG community.

Absolutely correct. Rules only cost you time. Renders cost you time and skill. Prototypes cost you money. Tabletop Sim is a godsend for physical game design.

Iteration is the difference between a good idea and a great game, and the difference between a mediocre idea and a decent game.

Consider... a hiddne information game, those need iteration. The core of Mafia, the classic school game, is solid. A bunch of people have a role, A third of them are one team but know who each other is. Everyone talks shit then votes to kill someone, and eventually the small team is dead and the big team wins, or small team equals big team and small team wins. It's actually a solid core, and frankly the most fun way to play it 98% of the time.

cont.

Now look at the fifty billion variants, including that trashy internet Werewolf game and shit. A fucking assload of house rules, most of which don't interact, most of which don't contribute, most of which if removed would make the core game either no worse or actively better. This is because they are never iterated - just added. There is no consideration for whether they're neede,d they're just added because the rule seems 'fun', but you never test the combos of the rules to see which is MOST fun.

Now compare that to a very good hidden info game, Secret Hitler. It seems similar to the above since many rules are arbitrary on first glance. But play it, and the sheer cleverness of the way the rules interact becomes clear. Every single rule is there because it needs to be, any new rule would undermine the game, and removing any rule would also undermine the game. The process of proposing rules was the same as the shitty internet Werewolf games; toss mud at a wall and see what sticks. They may be pro designers, but that just means fewer of their ideas are shit and they know the difference better, not that they have more good ideas. The real difference is every single time someone proposed a new rule, they sat down and tested the fuck out of the game with every possible combination of rules.

I'd comfortably say they must have had at least a hundred test version of that game, if you include the changes so simple they didn't print them out. And that is why it's vastly better than core Mafia, when the online shithead versions are dramatically worse.

Also remember the most important game design rule:

Your rules are on credit. Every rule you add costs you, objectively. Then it costs you based on how good or bad it is. Only then does it benefit you. Your job is to tell whether each rule adds enough to be worth the cost. And if you can make the same functioning game with fewer rules, it is a better game for it.

>Campaign
I think the main campaign used to be 25 lantern years, new kickstarter says it's been extended to 30 lantern years and a new boss has been added.
>Replayability
There's lots of ways a campaign could go (mostly defeat in various ways), and the persistent effects of the hunt and settlement phase should make every campaign different. Then there's tons of expansions, bosses and alternate campaigns that add to the game, so I'd say replayability is pretty solid.

Disclaimer: I have only read the rules and watched gameplay videos. I have no first-hand experience, but I've done my homework.

...

>Shadows of Brimstone. Adding 300+ $ to the total right now due to new kickstarter
Fuck me and you both.

I've not even kept track of what "Wave" they're on but I do remember paying a shitload for extras about a a year or two ago.

>another bgg shill thread

Can we stop that?

You realize people were going to talk about it either way, right?

I specifically purchased the old edition once I learned about this new edition. can't stand the art and the decreased portability is a huge turnoff

Which pledge level seems to be the best deal for the price?

Well in that case every bgg OP can be a shill because people were going to talk about it either way, right?

$0

Sure, I don't care. People will talk about the games that interest them and ignore the rest, whether it's in the OP or any other post. (Going to bed, so apologies if you wanted to argue further.)

It's already been fully funded... for twice what Pootis expected actually, and it'll probably surpass his production capacity.
So relax, no one's gonna pester you to back it to unlock more stretch goals or whatever, it simply doesn't require shilling. It's just that people love it, be patient while the hype overwhelms the people that are excited about it. People WILL talk about it regularly til the campaign ends.

>delivery date 2020

kek

Me

I would like to design a fantasy gnome game in which players are spelunking a cave and the cave is represented within a glen more style rondel that determines turn order with a vicious creature to fight on each space but also an innate ability for example one space helps you to heal and one space allows you to gain a magic spell etc. Does there appear to be a way to blend the last-player-moves element of glenmore / tokaido with players spending multiple turns on each space or no?

>>what's the most money you ever put into a board game
Conan, and it was worth it.

This topic was kinda messing me up because with Dungeon Saga, Conan, Shadows of Brimstone, Blood Rage, etc. Games are getting pretty expensive, specially my favorite kind which are crawlers, TBS and wargames. The increasing quality of components are driving prices through the roof.

Then I remembered my set of Wastelands cost me $200, my set of Liliana of the Veil $360, my Tarmogoyfs $600 and I'm blessed as fuck that I got Bayou, Underground Seas and Tropical Island for $5 each 18 years ago and wasn't stupid enough to sell.

But then again, Legacy is the third least played variant of Magic and I still get to play it at least once every couple weeks. I haven't played Descent all year long, and will have to get players taking up two heroes each to play the 4-5 player scenarios in Conan.

I don't wanna say it feels wasteful, but I dunno, maybe these kind of games should start considering for the price point they're getting at they'll be targeting adults with real lives who can't get together so easily anymore and may cherish a game that can be taken to the LGS and picked up fast by new players than having to wrestle schedules to gather a consistent group and an overlord anywhere this side of once a blue moon.

My FLGS just had their black friday sale, buy 2 get 1 free. Picked up Millennium Blades, Galaxy Trucker, and TIME Stories.

>>what's the most money you ever put into a board game
First Kickstarter for Kingdom Death: Monster, total ended up being a bit over $1000.

I'm not an economist but I play one on a mongolian warhorse webzine.

S&d doesn't work quite as well with boardgames because boardgames aren't perfectly fungible i.e you can't replace Campaign for North Africa with Monopoly.

Depending on consumer tastes a single board game may be quite fungible (i.e you only care about "dudes on a map" and you don't have to get specifically Kemet) or not at all fungible i.e you MUST GET Cthulu Wars because fuck you.

This means that sometimes board game companies may be considered as virtual monopolies.

Scarcity of board games is influenced by a couple of factors:
> IP (StarCraft, GW games by FFS will be hit by this, Dune etc)
> print runs - board games are hard to store needing a lot of physical space without moisture.
though it's mitigated somewhat by the second-hand market.

So when the board game isn't very niche it will follow the trends of similar commodities in entertainment industries - books, dvds etc. When it's very niche the prices can virtually arbitrary (similar to rare books).

>>what's the most money you ever put into a board game
$300 for StarCraft + BroodWar. For me that's a ridiculous amount and I bought it only because the game was "a perfect storm for me". I'm a sucker for StarCraft and strategy games.
>>what's the most time you ever got out of a board game
>one sitting
Probably StarCraft. A full 6p game can go on for full 4-5hrs.
>all in all
It's either StarCraft I at least had 24 plays in the last year and I don't think that any took less than 2hrs and most took probably 3 or more. Other option would be Neuroshima: Hex and Imperial Settlers. It's hard for me to say how much time I've spent playing the last two because when I was still with my ex gf we used to play 2-3 times a day everyday.

So what is Kingdom death monster?
what are the mechanism, is the board just that monotone thing shown in the video?
is there anything else than plastic figurine.
what is the theme, does it has a high replayability?
is it just edgy weaboo porn? judging by the figurines you have all the medfantasy armor/weapon from the manga arsenal.

You replied to the wrong post?

yeah i thought i had clicked on OP not on some random post in this thread.

There's a lot more to the mechanics than in that video, but a lot of the games complexity comes from monster AI and that only starts to get interesting a bit later on in the game, specifically character builds and especially movement/positioning become very important for survival.
Another draw of the game is the various story events, of which there are a pretty decent amount and are all quite well written.

The atmosphere is a very over the top Dark fantasy with a distinctly eldritch feel, similar to Bloodborne. The gameplay also makes it feel a bit rogue-like with the perma-death and high difficulty.

As for the miniatures, though they are pretty fucked up (mostly in the non-humanoid monsters) it's mostly only the collectible/event minis that are really weeb-ish, the normal player minis are fairly reasonable.

similar to Bloodborne but more stone aged*

thanks so what is the game about?
is it cooperative, FFA?
what are the game mechanism?
waiting 3years for the product, that seems pretty insane.
would it be worth it.
i d like some feedback in case i m thinking of pledging.
thanks for as many feedback as possible.

its already been out for a long time and played by people.

you can literally download the rules or look up videos of people playing

Taken right from the kickstarter:

"A cooperative nightmare horror game experience. Hunt intelligent monsters and develop your settlement through a self-running campaign."

Here are some video covering the very basics of the game mechanics, don't worry things get a lot crazier as the game progresses:

youtube.com/watch?v=mboZZZ8TuV8
youtube.com/watch?v=K4lZ13VqQ38

Anyway as someone who both loves good board games and loves painting very high quality miniatures it was totally worth it.

thanks, last question, is it "familly friendly" or is it magical realmesk?

Definitely 18 or at least 16+ there are cock monsters. The largest monster in the base game has a fully modeled anus with hands coming out of it.

The aforementioned anus hands are also one of its attacks.

So yea.

Super not family friendly, loads of gore and violence, other messed up stuff (like a monster that can pull you up it's asshole) and reproduction is a central game mechanic of the settlement phase.

Holy shit these pledges. Crazy. I was thinking "oh I'll check out this kingdom death thing everybody's always talking about but the entry point is crazy high.

Yeah, I paid 125 $ to get the wave 1.5 about a year ago. Worth it, but waiting for wave 2 is still a horrible feeling.

Limited (127 left of 666)

poots fucked up. should have made it 6666

Can I ask for a recomendation?
My gf and I need something to play for those long winter evenings. Something long, to really get into.
At the same time it shouldn't be as complicated as twilight struggle. I guess something like mtg commander, just not that because it's really expensive (although we might get those precons).

Tbh I thought that commander games would take as much as normal mtg games... So about 30 minutes tops.

War of the Ring?
Through the Ages?
Twilight Struggle?
Mage Knight?
Robinson Cruzoe?
Imperial Settlers (can easily get 1+ hrs play with deckbuilding... and then you just play again :P)

it depends cause 1v1 game arent that great if they last too long.
a few acre of snow is great. for 1v1 it s quite fast.
there is horus heresy FFG that is 1v1 and about 2h long.
descent can be nice also runebound 3rd ed

if you want to go coop
eldrich horror,
andor (low replayability thou)
stuff like zombicide (i really hate that game thou)

thanks for the titles guys. so far acre of snow, horus heresy and rune bound look like they might be a good fit.
Just something about the story they tell that make them more entertaining than just an abstract game with good mechanics. Not sure how to describe that. I'm just glad that nowadays we have games that combine american theme with german mechanics

>Implying Secret Hitler is a really good implementation of the social deduction genre
>Implying Max Temkin is a professional designer with only a game he didn't design under his belt

Hey, I've got an idea, why don't we make a social deduction game that relies a lot less on the social part, and that deduction part is too wishy washy so let's make it solvable too!

I understand why people like secret Hitler and it's not a bad game, but to use it as an example of something that wasn't just "this pre existing concept plus" is ridiculous, it should probably be the poster boy in the opposite direction.

I also got to play a fair few pre release versions of the game before the kickstarter went up as I live in Austin and run in a lot of the same social circles as Max and to say he was constantly refining his game is silly, it was originally a zany/funny resistance clone up until pretty much the date of the kickstarter and since then he made very few cuts and revisions. It's hard to get good critical feedback in the environment he mostly tests in.

>KD:monster

you could buy all shit from blue moon. its not that expensive at the moment.

or buy a few boosterboxes from some old tcg

Damn, regret from not backing the first time made thousands of people back a game that LITERALLY has roll to move.

Anal phoenix too stronk

In what context does KD:M have roll to move?

Makes me really sad that Kickstarter gets 10%
>Most money
Including expansions, Dominion
Without expansions that title now goes to Mechs vs Minions
>Most time out of a board game
I've wasted many hours on Androminion, but at the table maybe Innovation? I dunno it's close
I mean if you don't want to go all in you might as well just get the base at 250 which is a good deal if you were considering getting it at 400

What is the appeal of Kingdom Death to people who don't
A) want to jerk off to their cheesecake models
or
B) have a monster impregnation/rape fetish
?

100% serious question btw

Armor customization is pretty neat, so is the monster AI (though the latter has a rival in the Dark Souls boss AI, I think?). The campaign seems pretty extensive too, with TotAN style randomized events.

If the '100% serious question btw' didn't tip you off, I don't know what will.

Who's talking about KD:M?

Does anyone know how long till Triumph and Tragedy will be reprinted? Looks like an awesome game but currently

*currently it's pricey as fuck. What's the price you could expect after reprint?

I was being serious. I felt it was necessary to include something so it didn't just seem like an insulting shitpost.

I see. Thanks.

I'm half tempted to back this but haven't because I am Britbong and also don't know if it's worth the audacious pricing and ridiculous wait time. (2020? What the fuck, Poots?!) What say you, Veeky Forums? Is it worth me pulling the trigger on this or is it just overpriced overhyped garbage? Which tier would you recommend, if any?

If you've never played it, I'd describe it as a campaign RPG-lite with a fairly simple action system bolstered by more advanced actions. The production values are very high with regards to the number and sculpting of the minis but it could be considered a little rough around the edges in other elements of its presentation. The first kickstarter was underpriced after all of the add-ons and stretch goals were added in but the price has definitely been corrected for this newest iteration.

This game requires a fair amount of buy in from your game group and if you want to advance in the game you should have a regular group like an RPG or a legacy game. KD doesn't have much in the way of original, super clever mechanics but it is noteworthy for its scope and ambition. Pretty much every element of the system drags it further into a niche and the game will definitely not have broad appeal outside of its core demographic but those that it appeals to will love it.

At least some part of the current campaign is fueled by remorse at not backing the original at its super low price.

Cool minis

RPG Light centered around boss fights

Beating bosses gives you new items

Progression and home base system

No overlord/dm necessary

Closer to an RPG than a modern boardgame

i m in the same boat.
i asked earlier and some peole were saying in a magicalrealm tier game, but with great mechanism.
i m def not sold.
i cant believe people are willing to shed 300+dollaroo for a game that ll come in 3year. those 300+ if invested would generate much more than what the game can generate on a resale

>Wave 1 - Estimated Delivery Summer 2017
Core Game / 1.4 Update Pack

>Wave 2 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2018
Gambler's Box, Promo and cross-over figures

>Wave 3 - Estimated Delivery Spring 2019
New Expansions

>Wave 4 & Beyond - Estimated Delivery Winter 2020
???
Even I don't know for 100% what may happen during this campaign.

It's a GMT game, if you go to their site there is a 'reprint' number that when people 'pre-order' that many the game gets slotted into GMT's production cycle. (IIRC it's *usually* around 500?) Once the game is reprinted, the game sells at standard retail price. Sure there will be idiots asking stupid-high prices on Ebay, etc, but this is why those auctions site there untouched for ages.

its not 2020 tho. look at the timing in the description, some is early 2017 summer (so winter 2017) and then it comes in phases

Ah thanks, didn't know about that!

I would prefer people stop backing, less people the quicker we will get our stuff.

it also works in inverse
the more people the more stuff we get

KD:Monster if you like kinkiness.

WHO doesn't????

We've already hit max, more people just dilutes it.

REEEEEEEE!

Well, it's a long time ago, but back in the bay before I was introduced to Veeky Forums and related boards...

I like how you're optimistic about the other user's relationship to last for another five years.

Mind out the way, best kickstarter coming through.
Also, love that reddit is proven to be a complete bunch of braindead tards.

> Also, love that reddit is proven to be a complete bunch of braindead tards.
You need other proof then visiting it?

I have played it and while it is a really good game, would not recommend it for add much add they're selling it unless you really love the models and plan to paint them and really love the setting and want a story. As just a boardgame, you can get better stuff.

I was the 19th backer! Seriously though, they should put more about what the cards do on the cards, the iconography's already small and there's a lot of empty space, I think it would help new players A LOT if they didn't have to reference the rule book or memorize every action, especially when some have a lot of options in them.

>We've already hit max, more people just dilutes it.

Or it allows them to do economy of scale with a bigger manufacturer...

I have to admit I'm rather disappointed in CSI's 'Black Friday' sale. Of over 1800+ items 'On Sale' there are 17 board games (1/3 of which is Star Wars Armada stuff) and the Netrunner core set. That isn't to say there aren't a few good deals in there, but it isn't much compared to FFG's sale or Miniatures Market's sale for example.

Even worse, it's more like 16 than 17 because Pandemic Legacy is there twice.

I think the it's coop survival thing (or 'cancer' as some would call it) + the undeniably good models.
I like neither the gameplay nor the models. I think coop (in its current state) is cancer and animu is shit.

As a person who doesn't really care about minis in general and would prefer less cheesecake in the game (to be fair the base game actually looks fine, the pin ups were just add-ons as far as I understand):
- Difficult coops appeal to me in general
- Combat looks very engaging and I've heard good things about it (the way the AI deck also serves as HP is interesting)
- I like the resource collection and armor set mechanics, they feel Monster Hunter-esque
- I'm a sucker for any game that has a build up, something you can work on and expand throughout a campaign, so the settlement mechanics are very appealing to me
- I like that the storytelling is nearly as important in this as in a role-playing game

The only things holding me back are the price point and the fact that I can't manage to pull a group together for regular RPG sessions, so this would probably not go any better.

>I think coop (in its current state) is cancer
Can you elaborate on that? Give examples of what you consider good and bad coop?

>animu is shit
While I agree with the statement, I don't find KDM looks anything like anime, the illustrations and minis are western-style dark fantasy

I honestly don't even know a good coop game where players play against the game only. I mean the main problems get discussed every 2nd thread (or at least used to, before we got that mythic battles ks), so there is no point in stating them again. The cancerous thing about coop is, that it gets shoved into things it doesn't belong (see that League of Legends game).
That said I get that people like KD:M, it's probably one of the better games if this kind.

Also my favorite coop game is justice league hero dice.
The style reminds me more of anime and japanese vidya (Monster Hunter or whatever it's called).

So just to make sure I'm not retarded the lantern pledge gets you the full KD:M core game plus the 1.5 expansion right?

not just the 1.5 core game

Jet has a 30% off a single item sale.

Also, why is Kingdom Builder so cheap on Amazon?

As far as I can tell 1.5 is more like an extended second edition than an expansion in and of itself. Basically there's no separate expansion you need to buy on top of the core game (unless you want the gambler box thing), the upgrade tiers are just if you already had the previous edition core game and don't need to get another copy of everything.

I went in on KDM at the $275 pre-order mark a little over a year ago. It was risky, because none of my friends wanted to go in on it. Since then, they've been buying expansions for the group, because they desperately want more of it.

If you're in the US, the $250 level gets you the core game, which already has a lot in it. Outside if tye US might be tricky, because Poots is a choir boy and won't do anything to trick customs, so buyers in other nations may get reamed with customs fees.

I really recommend that you give it a try, or at least look into the leaked stuff online to see if you'd to put $250 towards it. Hell, try to get 3 friends to go in on it with you.

Cool that's what I was hoping for! I was afraid that I wasn't reading it right I totally missed the boat on the original ks and wanted to make sure to at least lock in the core game on this one. Any opinions on the lone (last?) survivor add-on?

You could take a gamble. By the time KS charges you for your pledge, Trump will be in office, and the value of the dollar may have tanked. You might be able to get the game for peanuts.

Amazon has no deals for shit i want :(((((((

>20
>20
Are you serious? Why would you pay for something FOUR YEARS in advance?