Dragons as Psionic by default

So you could have a dragon that does what all dragon does, but explain the source of their 'supernatural' abilities as different. Doesnt seem to be a lot different.

Unless you include classic psionic powers like telepathy and telekinesis into the dragon roster and detract from other forms of spellcasting, which can significantly change the flavor

Why do you think dragons don't have both?

Consider those who derive their powers from draconic ancestry. Psychic "sorcerers", kobold hive minds, items forged from dragon parts possessing intelligence, and so forth.

What if mindcontrolling rape sluts?

Like, they're sluts that mindcontrol other people to rape them?

What, do they breath thought-fire now?

Crystal gem dragons?

I could see it working, though I'd prefer it in a more psionic heavy setting, if magic and psionics exists side by side I prefer my dragons magical

>Unless you include classic psionic powers like telepathy and telekinesis into the dragon roster
I actually like this idea though, telepathic/telekenitic dragons get around the "How do they talk with lizard lips" and "How do they pick up human sized books/items"

Yes

Pyrokinesis is a thing. They could breathe fire and then use psionics to control and guide it however they wanted.

No one expects the dragon to have telekinesis.

It's such a bizarre but awesome combination.

I've always had trouble reconciling psionics and magic myself, at least as far as the typical scholarly wizard magic goes.

It just feels like they both go for that mind over matter approach and overlap too much in the process.

The way I see it is Magic = manipulation of external energy to do things, a wizard USES magic to do things, IE tool use
Psionics= Altering reality through force of will, a Psychic DOES things, raw might

Yeah, I get the sort of philosophical differences, but it still feels like they overlap too much.

The Wizard conjures a floating hand to pick something up for himself, the Psion pictures a floating hand picking the thing up and it comes to him.

Personally, I'd rather just ditch the typical book Wizards and replace them with psionics entirely, while having other types use more standard magic.

Point, I like having many different (but often somewhat similar) magical systems in a setting even if most of the effects overlap (but at the same time that each should do some things better) and the default/core magic and psionics of the setting would probably be very similar by design if I had my way

I guess what it comes down to is what do you want each class to go for/feel like and what you want the setting's supernatural aspects account for

As for the difference between a wizard and psion, I think the most important part to me is that I see the wizard as more magical scientist and the psion more as one who studies to master his own mind/self
They can overlap, and one can do both, but the two ways of learning/mastering the two are different leading to the characterization of them to feel different from each other (or one who does both)

Yeah, I guess for me I prefer settings to have a bit more focus rather than being the typical kitchen sink. It's nice when there's only one sort of magic and everything follows it, one way or another.

Joke's on you, psionics is magic in my setting. The oldest form of it even! HAHA!

>Psionics= Altering reality through force of will, a Psychic DOES things, raw might
So sorcery?

No, Sorcery is those assholes who never nave to study but at the same time never had to learn how to learn

So psions?

No, a psion is about as likely to know how he does his shit as an average human is to know exactly how the physics that lets him move his arms work, they need to know how or even think about it to lift shit

It doesn't, really. Dragons aren't magic by default, they're only scary because they're physical powerhouses who have the POTENTIAL to learn wizardry or unlock sorcery. Take away that power and they're still city-destroying monstrosities.

Telekinesis is largely useless when you can hurl giants around like chaff naturally. Telepathy could be cool, but they'd probably just mentally shout so loud that people's heads explode.

>as an average human is to know exactly how the physics that lets him move his arms work
The average human has no idea about the physics behind how his arm works, only that it works

Exactly, a sorc least "gets" how his magic works, even if it's just a few spells he knows
A psion just does things

A sorcerer has less idea than a psion cause he can't even trust his magic to work the same all the time

>cause he can't even trust his magic to work the same all the time
Wat?

Wild magic as one example
The WoT "channelers" are also just a bunch of sorcerers with unreliable powers and no idea what they're doing

In that case it's a depends on the setting issue

Everything is
In some setting sorcerers are just mages specialize in mind magic

I have literally never heard of one

Noble dead saga for one. Read more books.

>Some find that psychic abilities are redundant in a setting where magic already exists.

I always fought the same arguments apply to 'wizard magic' and 'cleric magic'
The game makes a huge distinction game makes huge distinction between the two. Mechanically just boils down to nelfs versus buffs. That's just what spell list you want. They both have the same spell per level system and everything.

Fluff reasons user

Other than changing the kobold's most iconic/favored class from "Sorcerer" to "Mystic", because dragons in my setting went extinct and were replaced by their fallout-mutated neotenous offspring, the kobolds... nothing.

Half the group quits because the mere mention of psionics makes them foam at the mouth. The other half has no idea things are different.

They sound... outrageous.

Truly, outrageous?

>Half the group quits because the mere mention of psionics makes them foam at the mouth.

Now here's a stance I never understood. I get it if one doesn't like an iteration of a system of which there are many, but to automatically hate psionics on principle is like hating all divine magic because you're a fedora donning atheist edgelord who can't stand the idea of sucking at the heavenly teat of magical goodness for power. Even those who object on outdated mechanical grounds have to admit that divine magic users have had it better than the mantra chanting, crystal hoarding psionic hippies throughout most editions, at least in D&D.

Truly, truly outrageous.

game goes to great lengths to differentiate 'magic' from *another type* magic.

The Dragon-Emperor becomes a lot more overt in his domination of the world.