Which ship has the most physically capable crew?

But if the Empires were to face/off who would win.

See i can't help but think a lot of that really wouldn't matter. I know it's just fan wanking, but frankly 40k powerlevels are bullshit. I agree with everything in that image, except for simply not believing they would be able to do jack shit even if they could out maneuver them.

Yes you can, in both trek and 40k need special defences to prevent it and also SW have the simplest form of power fields to protect their ships, in 40k when the shield s are down it's game over, they mass teleport in to your ship.

It's hard to say since all the retcons SW have suffered it would end up as an empire vs imperium if trek doesn't use time travel shenanigans.

>but frankly 40k powerlevels are bullshit

The thing is that "power" is ALL 40K has going for it. Their ships pack a Hell of a wallop, I don't doubt that, and their Void Shields and armor plating is very thick as a result as well.

But they're not fast. They're not fast at strategic FTL speeds - the best speed a Mars-class could make across the Galaxy, assuming a smooth trip through the Warp, is measured in months, whereas in Star Wars it's measured in a few days at most.

And they don't have tactical speed either. The Warp is explicitly impossible to enter when you're "close" to a major gravity well; you need to get to a system's edge. Star Wars hyperspace faces no such limitations; you can enter it right next to a planet or even ON a planet (or into a planet's atmosphere with no negative effects, as Episode VII showed us). And Star Trek, meanwhile, has fights that take place at FTL speeds all the damn time.

And 40K engineers explicitly don't know how a lot of their technology works, whereas Star Wars engineers are the heirs to 25,000 years of making their technology incredibly user-friendly, to the point where a penniless vagabond can nevertheless maintain the fastest ship in the Galaxy, and Star Trek engineers are continuously noted to be and demonstrated as "wizards" who can make anything they have do anything they want. Even their COMMUNICATORS have enough technology packed into them to give a pre-warp society immense technological breakthroughs (RE: TOS "A Piece of the Action")

Raw power alone doesn't win you fights.

Fuck, I didn't even bring the casual time travel that Trek ships are capable of into play.

I don't want to be "that guy," but OP didn't really ask about ship strength. He asked about crews.

Deflector shields prevent transporters from being used to board another ship.
Except for one episode instances where the plot demands it, and then it's handwaved by some sciency speak, like most things in Star Trek.

We all knew it was going to come to this sooner or later; I just skipped ahead.

>Except for one episode instances where the plot demands it, and then it's handwaved by some sciency speak

Which I have no reason to believe the folks on a 40K ship would even be able to understand, let alone exploit.

And I don't disagree with that. Like I said, I just don't think it matters. This is all predicated on the belief that they can pierce the void shields, or the armor platting, and that the suprise salvo wouldn't have destroyed the star destroyer after thst first jump. Both of which are assumptions I do not neccisarily agree with. That being said, I know that is just my opinion, and fan wanking power level bullshit at that. I appreciate the effort that was put into thinking this over and making it more than a dick measuring contest, I'm just pointing out that the reason it had to be done was that in any dick measuring contest 40k probably would have come out on top, as cheesy as that is.

You mean the shields that only truly hold a beating when they're moon or planet size?

The shield and the hull.

Trekfag teleporter isn't going to work, period.

40k ships fight at near light speed too in the opening salvos of the engagement and typical engagement ranges are in light minutes.

Superluminal jousting was used like once in the history of Star Trek.

>armor against tank shells?
>you mean armor that'all only consistently defend against tank shells if there is a battleship's worth?
That's how you sound. Of course capital ship shields will only rank a couple of shots from capital ship weapons.

A single space marine terminator in a boarding torpedo would blow either ship to smithereens given some time. Laser weaponry is fucking useless against regular power armor.

Now, these Mars pattern ships don't fuck around. They have macro cannons capable of puncturing a star trek vessel's hull in a single volley. Then they explode. But see those holes behind the the cannons? Those are flight decks, capable of launching hundreds of boarding torpedos or bombers half the size of a galaxy class ship.

40k is the setting where everything is ridiculously overpowered and huge. Anything of short god-like beings will simply be outclassed. They wouldn't just go around blowing up ships full of humans though. Maybe the federation ship, for consorting with xenos.

>40k ships fight at near light speed

Highest I've come across is about half the speed of light for WH40K, whereas superluminal fights happened dozens of times I can think of in Trek. The Orion marauder in TOS' "Journey to Babel" is the first one that pops into my head. There was warp-speed torpedoes in TNG "New Ground", and a Klingon bird-of-prey attacking at Warp 5 in ENT "The Expanse".

I really can't be bothered researching every single time it happened, those are just from memory. The point being that "superluminal jousting" happened several times per season per show in Star Trek, not "like once in the history".

>and typical engagement ranges are in light minutes.

And Star Trek ships have sensors capable of FTL sensing, and WH40K munitions do not travel at FTL speeds, so firing a missile or sun's core or whatever at a Trek ship from 1 light minute away will result in a Trek ship having 1 light minute or more to get out of the way. It's trivially easy.

Then why do these Federation ships keep getting damaged so easily? A primitive Kzon shuttle managed to penetrate the hull of Voyager without difficulty.

>Laser weaponry is fucking useless against regular power armor.

Star Wars turbolasers are called, well, "lasers", but in the lore they're not. If nothing else we have Star Destroyers casually vaporizing asteroids several hundreds or thousands of meters across in "Empire Strike Back". Assuming a standard nickel-iron composition, Star Wars turbolasers have a power output approaching that of Imperial armaments.

>Argues about raw power again.

You are Future Trunks and Star Trek is Perfect Cell.

youtube.com/watch?v=j7c3z_Qjr2o

Skip to 3:30

Because the Kzon shuttle was moving at superluminal speeds itself? Or something? I don't remember that episode.

Phasers are pretty OP tho

Good thing neither Star Wars or Star Trek's standard personal weapon is laser based. Star Trek's phasers are coherent nadion particle beams. Star Trek's blasters are plasma weapons that fire explosive packets of excited gas.

>Imperium have no sensors

Fucking Star Wars fanboys...

This is a really good what if but there are holes, as noted by and
Especially taking into account the fact that, by the OP's own admission, the warp in this demo-arena is completely clear. There is nothing stopping the Imperium from making use of it's teleporters to send boarding parties at the enemy ships, especially when it gets the drop on them using the warp

Furthermore while it takes into account the painfully slow speed of the Imperial Ship and it's munitions, it does not take into account it's two lance turrets, which has even longer range than it's macro batteries, and these are ACTUAL lasers and therefore 100% accurate and travelling at S.O.L

This is without mentioning the assumptions made about the consistency of the Imperial vessels repair for the sake of nothing but plot and fulfilling OP's own narrative - admittedly the youngest Mars class ship is still going to be 2000 years old, but there are lots of them and they are well maintained and common as far as Imperial tech goes. The benefit of being, y'know, from MARS.

This is FURTHER not mentioning what amounts to hand-waved PLOT happening with the fusion of Star Wars and Star Trek tech in order to beat the Imperium - which in all fairness, is basically Picards superpower

Also the Mars class has ordinance bays and thus can launch fighters to defend itself and is not reliant on defense turrets to protect itself. And no analysis is provided for how these theoretical super fighters might stack up against the Imperiums.

This is all moot however as neither the Federation or Empire ship have pyskers or shielding against them, and given the 100% becalmed state of the Warp the Imperiums Ship's sanctioned Pyskers pulps the bridge crew of both with fucking mind bullets once they close range. Now if it was a Star Wars REPUBLIC ship with JEDI, you could have a proper defense. But you wanted to wank the Empire so...

Imperial Auguries function similar to an Auspex but at much larger ranges. By canonical accounts they detect motion, invisible gases and energy emissions across a wide band of the electromagnetic spectrum. This includes such emissions as heat, radiation and most forms of energy given off by vehicles and living troops.

It is fairly easy to hide yourself from Augury sensors by performing run silent maneuvers though, especially at long range. This is likely something the other factions figure out quickly, but it means by the same token the Imperium captain won't be taken off guard by fighting blind - hide and seek duels will be something they've experienced.

Kinda wonder how a Star Destroyer literally filled with stormtroopers is last when it comes to boarding actions.

>More to the point, I endeavored to show everyone acting in a way that is consistent with their portrayals

IOW, I jobbed the Imperium of Man because I like Star Trek and not 40k and 40k is dumb so their captain is a dumb mouth frothing retard haha 40gay fans :^)

>WH40K ships cannot achieve FTL speeds without the Warp

u wot m8
Don't group us with the plebs.

Got retconned, sadly. you're down here with the rest of us knuckledraggers, skeleman

Star Trek and Star Wars are also pretty overpowered in their own way. Star Trek especially; for 40k, Exterminatus capable weaponry are rare and valuable, in Star Trek, its ubiquitous.

Star Trek ships are pretty slow compared to Star Wars ones (not sure how they compare to 40k) but they can fight at FTL speed, which, combined with their vastly superior firepower to the weak, klutzy armaments of the Imperium of Man, means it would be effectively impossible for them to hit them with anything, ever.

>Furthermore while it takes into account the painfully slow speed of the Imperial Ship and it's munitions, it does not take into account it's two lance turrets, which has even longer range than it's macro batteries, and these are ACTUAL lasers and therefore 100% accurate and travelling at S.O.L

Which means at the very least they will never, EVER hit the Enterprise, because you have tactical engagement at superluminal speeds in Star Trek. You could literally be aimed dead on at the Enterprise, and still miss, because it can outrun your lance batteries.

It also overlooks the fact that they can drop a torpedo at the same faster than light speeds. Even if it's filled with sand, something moving that fast is going to start fusion reactions with the metal of the Mars class vessel's hull as soon as it impacts, and can essentially destroy a planet.

Disregarding all that, psykers are a thing in 40k. How do any of these ships defend against a single librarian?

>metal of the Mars class vessel's hull
Void Shields

Trek - rerouting the subspace maintainers through the shield array to create a bullshit plot field of the week that will never be used again, even when faced with other foes that use physic powers.

...

HELLO FRIEND MEAT CREATURES

I UNDERSTAND YOU'RE HAVING A POWER WANK THREAD

MAY I INTERJECT

I occasionally hear cryptic things about this sort of thing but I don't get it. What can a librarian do against a distant space ship? I don't recall anything like that in BFG.

That being said, Star Trek has its own mentalists/psyker analogs, and even very different types of mentalist types in Star Trek can have battles of the will.

There are indeed psychic types in Star Trek so powerful that destroying the planet they are on can become the only option, or that can totally, completely cripple a ship that comes anywhere near them.

But no Fed. Empaths are trained psychic soldiers, trained from childhood to literally fight demons. Nor are more powerful ones routine members of Federation ships

>muh culture
Fuck off, the Xeelee would kick your ass any day of the week

Are hardly invulnerable. And they don't seem to be that great at deflecting missiles, given the existence of boarding torpedoes in 40k.

>‘Have you forgotten?’ said Captain Morgrom of the Invaders. His face was a wide, battered expanse of leather, contrasting with the polished deep green of his armour. ‘I sent three squads of Terminator-armoured brothers by teleport onto the World Engine. Its shields sent them back twisted and dead.’

-World Engine novel

Just more FYI. 40K teleporters cannot bypass shields. So forget about boarding shielded enemy ships.

Star Wars - We have this retard bush/lizard symbiote thing that stops mindfuckery.

CSM literally ram an asteroid into an fully operational Mars class ship during the Pandorax crusade and it survives the impact and it's repaired shortly after to continue fighting the rest of the campaign, void shields can take a beating from almost all forms of attacks from energy based weaponry to kinetic and etherial attacks.

Sure, but I'm not sure why librarians etc. would be significant in starship scale combat, they certainly are not so in BFG, for example.

Is this some obscure point from somewhere I'm not aware of? Some random BL bit?

What speed, though?

Given that the different settings may use different shield technology teleporters may or may not work as the author desires.

Those are necron shields you imbecile!, you know the guays that fought and win against the Old ones aka owners of all warp technology, if they wouldn't develop those shields they wouldn't be able to win the war in heaven.

Warp technology bypass all physical and energy barriers, you'll need specialized technology or esoteric knowledge to block warp teleportation which star wars empire doesn't have.

Shields in 40k: Block teleporters.
Shields in Star Trek: Block teleporters.

>WELL GEE MAYBE THEY WOULDN'T BLOCK EACH OTHERS' TELEPORTERS

Why? Or if you prefer, just transporter the boarding party back into space.

>subspace maintainers
Come on now, you can do better. Off the top of my head, auxiliary subspace manifold, plasma intermix regulator, secondary navigational array.

>Star Trek always has some bullshit plot armour of the week
No more than Star Wars casually uses some as before unmentioned tech or just "the force" to solve half of its problems. Same thing goes for 40k, where will-power is the go to solution to beating an obviously superior enemy.

Point is, plot armour is unersal

ram speed, it was chained and directed all the way trough the warp by the red corsair's .

One ship has a protagonist on it. The other two don't. Nothing else matters. Plot armor wins.

>Also the Mars class has ordinance bays and thus can launch fighters to defend itself and is not reliant on defense turrets to protect itself. And no analysis is provided for how these theoretical super fighters might stack up against the Imperiums.

I'm afraid, that this is the biggest plothole in the whole story, if imperium starships are vulnerable to small and agile ships, why aren't they more common?

The TAU can actually adapt technology, tyranids too, deldar are basically the definition of small and agile and so on... its not that they forgot that they are vulnerable to space fighters, is because that a Mars pattern ship carries enough bombers and fighters to defend itself and attack a planet and thats not to talk about how its the equivalent of a B-17 in levels of turret protection against interceptors.

Also it seems to ignore that the void shields are prepared to stand against much more damage than a few dozens TIE fighters can deliver or even the enterprise.

Also, if the Mars Pattern gets close to the Avenger its not going to be "heavily damaged" its going to be boarded, opened like a swiss cheese and completly obliterated by both giant superlasers and a thousands of 10000000mm howitzers shooting constantly.

Because thats how exagerated things are in 40k.

Do you remember that even the Emperor himself had to wait for Horus to drop the shields of the Vangeful Spirit before he teleported there?

>Star Wars hyperspace faces no such limitations

What is an interdiction field

No longer canon.

You mean the ship that faces teleportation in the settings from orkz, to eldars and then other space marines forces? Geez I wonder if they would have specialized technology to block teleportation!? Oh yeah, it's called void shielding!!!

Most of this conversation seems to be going off Legends. Quit being a bitch.

>?!
>gee
>!!!
Jesus Christ.

>Star Wars hyperspace faces no such limitations
>Implying blockades or asteroid fields aren't an immediate danger for the planets on those regions in SW
SW is only the fastest because they use literal roads that they need to keep clean or else, with else being the planets dying of starvation.

>Xeelee
>LaughingDownstreamers.jpg

Who thought this was worth screencapping?

>Also it seems to ignore that the void shields are prepared to stand against much more damage than a few dozens TIE fighters can deliver or even the enterprise.

That's not the case at all and you haven't built the basis for the argument. The Enterprise, average birds of prey, etc. have much more firepower than is normal for an Imperial warship.

In Star Trek, the power to destroy a planet spreads fear across the galaxy and is treated as a huge development.

In Imperium, the power to destroy a planet is the reserve of certain rare, precious technological high value items.

In Star Trek, the power of Exterminatus is totally ubiquitous with their normal weaponry, and they can also whip up a portable explosive that can do the same.

Delta Base Zero is achievable by any ship of Star Destroyer size or larger.

It just takes longer if you lack ships.

Probably the same idiot who write it.

>Those same slaves that live and die below deck likely make for an overwhelming shipboard defence for anything that isn't a superhuman killing machine. By comparison, a few shipboard security officers or the least accurate stormtroopers in the universe don't seem so frightening.
kek

Incorrect. It reappeared in the Star Wars:Rebels TV show which is authorised by Disney and canon.

The only reason you can't teleport into a ship covered with void shields is that 40k teleporters make use of the void itself. So i'm quite sure you could still teleport guys onto the other ships since their shields don't use it.

>In Imperium, the power to destroy a planet is the reserve of certain rare, precious technological high value ite
>implying ciclonyc torpedoes aren't a thing
>implying ciclonyc torpedoes won't turn a planet into space debris

This

To be fair, the ammount of fuckery the Star trek guionist do around makes really hard to measure the actual power of the weapons involved.

Sometimes they can melt entire seas, sometimes they can destroy moons and sometimes they can't target surface targets even though you just to need to guess your shoots.

>Even if it's filled with sand, something moving that fast
Something moving that fast either has imaginary mass or doesn't obey the standard laws of physics anyway, so speculation is useless.

Yes, but those ascended fucks aren't here, so we're gonna see if we can steal your psychic powers, time travel, and bullshit drives. Trust us, it'll be fun.

>things that never happened in the series or the movies
Stop using head canon

ST's very consistent about destroying planets being easy mode. That's not to say there aren't counters, especially because the protagonists are not usually callous bastards.

I watched the whole remastered TOS fairly recently back to back, and I really think 40k people could stand to appreciate Trek more. In many ways the feel is amazingly similar, the Federation is almost always an antagonistic out of control cult like nemesis (a la the Imperium in Laserburn), psykers are out of control freaks that merit heavy handed retaliation to control, Kirk will consider destroying your entire race if you give him too much shit, most planets are basically human, etc.

They fight at FTL all the time, dude.
And they don't have much trouble destroying their enemies, usually.
Weaponry is so fucking destructive that instead most of the challenge is figuring out how to disable your opponent WITHOUT obliterating them.
One thing I found entertainingly stupid about the Borg is that they didn't want to destroy them at first, and disabled them repeatedly, and then the Borg adapted and destroyed hundreds of Federation ships, kind of like the current trajectory this timeline has about overusing antibiotics.

>u
>Things that never happened in the series, the post.
There are plenty of boarding scenes in ST and it's always a cause for concern. They don't simply teleport boarders away because they can't.

Star Trek teleporters can easily lock onto and teleport anyone within their ship. That means that borders get sent back or sent out into space or something else like that.
Can a 40k teleportarium do that? I honestly don't know, but if it can't, that's a huge disadvantage.

They can and sometimes do, but usually they're being jammed or the teleportation officers are attacked first, or they have another reason to not do it for plot convenience.

Or they've already been so damaged by ship based attacks that the teleportation just isn't working anymore.

SW- the exhaust port is ray shielded so we'll be using proton torpedoes which are common and part of our regular arsenal. You'll be seeing these again.

ST- The exhaust manifold is protected by overlapping tachyon fields rendering our standard weapons useless. However, Bones, Spock and McCoy will develop a phase photon torpedo which will bypass the fields entirely through subspace. Don't ever ask us to do this again.

40k- The heretical exhaust is shielded by warp energies and our bombers weapons have no effect. We will deliver a a suicide detail via assault boat to brave the energies and deliver a payload of meltabombs by hand.

Nah. The most recent ST movies showed teleportation as a kind of trick shooting exercise where you're trying to overlap a cross-hairs for each plane to get a lock on someone. ie- whilst they are moving and uncooperative, extremely difficult. Scotty gets it done because plot and main character.

The first chase Enterprise-D did with the borg involved them firing photon torpedo at Borg in Maximum warp.
(Episode Q who)

So yeah combat in FTL is a thing for ST

Doing it inside of your own functional ship is easy, since you're really, really close to the sensor sources

>That one thing they did in one episode and never again counts
Might as well say that the imperium ship is crewd by a mechanicus magos capable to interface with the ship waking up the DAoT end game stuff.

>via assault boat
Teleport attacks are more consistent, since you can't intercept them with point defense turrets.

Also rather than assault boats, use that reinforced prow and ram them to deploy your boarders. Not the ideal conditions for a carrier, but worst case scenario you get crippled and have to disengage.

>>That one thing they did in one episode and never again counts

What are you referring to? FTL combat? Happens all the time. Most medium ships being able to exterminate all life? Happens everywhere from TOS to DS9.

youtube.com/watch?v=E2ppvKh_Og0

It's nice that someone already composed a video that include many scene from different ST series where they engage in combat at warp speed.

How about you stop lying and just accept the fact that FTL speed combat is a thing for Star Trek?

The autism is strong with this one

What is all this 'fighting at superluminal speeds' bullshit? Is every weapon the Enterprise fires also attached to a warp drive? How the fuck does Star Wars do this with an unguided plasma projectile?

Can we just cut the bullshit and recognize hyperbole?

>Mars class
>Doesn't use it's Nova Cannon straight off the bat and completely destroy the ISD.
>Reload and repeat with the Enterprise.

Nova Cannons shoot in distances measurable in AU, fractions slower then C and have explosions with roughly the diameter of Earth.

A ship that has one on board it going to be using it pretty much straight away before even trying to get closer and attempting anything else.

>have explosions with roughly the diameter of Earth.

Nigga u watch too much anime