Horus Heresy General /hhg/

+++ Magos.exe has stopped responding +++
+++ Due to an overload of firepower and happiness, your Magos is not available at this time, please hold. +++

*Holds you*
There there, Magos. There there.

>I've heard guns with bayonets were very mediocre melee weapons in infantry combat, since they don't have the same grip as a spear.
That was their mistake. Custodian Halberds are actually archaeotech.
Do we have any fluff description of those halbers, which are totally not spears? What about Master of Mankind?

Wonder if we'll ever get more info and rules for Army units under legion command. Like Spireguard (Thousand Sons) and Ayliet Phalanx (Sons of Horus). Maybe give Militia a provenance that lets you use them as Sworn Brothers with Legions?

Would love to field a small detachment of Army with my Marines, but as Distrusted Allies they're not much good for anything other than cannon fodder, and for that'd I'd need to get a whole bunch of them, which goes against the idea of a small detachment.

+++ Magos.exe rebooting+++

OK, there's my big gun problems solved. Nab a D-Cannon to annoy our knightspam and primarch players, or boost a Stormlord with +1 to vehicle damage table, +1BS and Tank Hunters to delete 2 Rhinos a turn.

What's the Autokrator upgrade?

>Like Spireguard
I could see them in RoWs like the UM's Vigil Opertii and RG's Freedom warriors. Sure we'll see TS Spireguard RoW.
Talk to me, HHG. Weren't they nothing more than an elite PDF? I know TS fans want them, but did they ever sailed the starts in name of the Emperor?

>Stormlord with +1 to vehicle damage table, +1BS and Tank Hunters
Mmmhmmm.
>What's the Autokrator upgrade?
->

Hey, nice. Now with the Reductor Cognis Signum that is now BS5. Thanks for pointing that one out.

Also, where do I find the latest Stormsword rules? I can only find ones that are still listed with Structure Points.

I don't know, I thought that was the latest IA1 edition. Multiply SP by 3.

Holy hell, that thing is a budget Ordinatus with Mechaniucm buffs. AP0 10" S10 Ignores cover Tank Hunters blast at BS5, anyone? Only 450 pts.

Aaand, GW sells the kit so it's actually quite cheap! Praise the Omnissiah and pass the ammunition!

With Blessed Autosimulacra ;^)
By the way, cyber-occularii give Interceptor to nearby models. Would this affect vehicles as well?

Hell, bring an Archimadrite, make it IWND.

Yes, they do work on vehicles, although obviously hull guns are restricted by arc of fire.
Still, if that Justaerin squad gets an unlucky scatter, BOOM!

Starting to build Death Guard. So far I have 40 Bolter Tacticals (2 units of 20), 5 Heavy Bolter Legionnaires, 5 Tartaros armed with lightning claws, and a 3rd-party Mortarion.

Things I intend to add:
2 Apothecary (joining the Tactical blobs)
1 Leviathan Dreadnought

What else should I plan on? I need a non-LoW HQ choice and I'm just trying to decide on which model I like the most. I'd also like to add at least one tank. Am I a giant dick for thinking about 3 Medusa? Also like the looks of the Sicaran.

fuck yes

...

Is there a unit that is all characters besides Deathshroud for DG? Wondering if there is another unit that can go all scythes.

They were an Imperial Army regt. permanently attached to the TS and fought alongside them. They're specifically mentioned as being in combat next to TSons at Shrike, as were the specialised TS robots.

The TS need some way to represent that they have 'their' human and robot levies to make up their numbers in their rules, but I'm not sure what it is; I doubt we'll get unique models. Maybe add-on parts for Castellax, maaaybe.
But rules, I could see.
TS allowed to use a robot maniple as a HS choice without a forgelord/techmarine or allied detachment, as Troops with some combination of consuls. Spireguard I could see as Troops in a new RoW, though making the only RoW the TS can have one that just gives them cannon fodder seems a bit iffy. Esp as you'd have to model the Spireguard minis.

I am surprised that there were Tartaros termies who survived long enough to become Rubrics.

FW already said the Spireguard will get represented in Inferno as extra rules for one of the human armies, and at the very most would get a character model. Nothing more.

>already converted Sanakht and Ctesias, working on Ignis+Credence

I don't know if I want any of them to get rules/model, or any of the dudes from ATS, or their chars to be all new. Most of the dudes from ATS, with the exceptions of Phosis T'kar, Amon and maybe Kalophis are kinda assholes.

Which armour marks best represents each Legion? I.e Imperial Fists look pretty iconic in Mk3, Ultramarines in Mk4 or their specific (Orpheus?), Iron Hands are very Mk2, and so on.

What about the rest of the Legions?

Fun game: Which legion would recruit from X country?

First question: Ireland.

>Editing the crest to be red and yellow rather than blue and yellow
But the blue and green detailing is part of what makes pre-Heresy Thousand Sons look so great.

>Ireland
Imperial Fists.
>Has lots of ancient fortresses all over the place
>Drowns emotions in alcohol and potatoes
>Kind of cold in the winter
>Pretty patriotic, defends their home turf.

You think it's gonna be a RoW like with RG and Ultras?

None, coz Ireland would've been reduced to a blasted bit of rock

mk2+3: IH, DG,IW, SW
MK4: UM,AL,TS, NL,EC,WE
MK5: wild card
MK6: AL, RG

Dark Angels and Mk. I

DA: MkII
EC: MkIV
IW: MkIII
WS: MkII
SW: MkIV
IF: MkIII
NL: MkIV
BA: MkIV
IH: MkIII
WE: MkV
U: MkIV
DG: MkV
TS: MkII
SoH: MkIV
WB: MkIV
S: MkII
RG: MkVI
AL: MkVI

Sons of Horus for MkV

loyalist: mk2, mk3, mk5, mk6
traitor: mk3, mk4, mk5, mk6

No, why would it a RoW? And even then these rites use generic human allies. It's the opposite of what Alan told us to expect.

Every legion has their "favourite", but a lot of the "general purpose legions" look good in everything. AFAIK it's only the "out of the way" Loyalist legions who tended to wear anything other than the up-to-date stuff, barring "artificer armour" versions of the previous models.

The only "wearing that type of armour doesn't make sense" scenario I can think of is the Imperial Fists and Mk2; they would have perhaps the easiest access to Mk4 and the old Mk2 chassis they'd have left over would be of more use to them updated to Mk3.
Everyone else would have their supply lines stretched thin enough to make everything from 2 to 5 realistic.
Mk6 would work for SoH, IF, and AL, not forgetting the Raven Guard of course.

Well, going by "Spireguard will get represented in Inferno as extra rules for one of the human armies" It sounds like they won't be a legion special unit, but use existing Army lists. Ultra and RG RoW give extra rules for their Militia allies. Ultra one gives them Infiltrator and Implacable Advance rules. RG one enables them to have Zealot for one turn and makes them Fearless when within 6" of an RG unit.

Cool, because it so happens I'm Irish and I have Imperial Fists.

Heretic detected.

What did you guys think of these Custodes rules? I never knew Gary Stus could look so shining.

>Custodes
>Gary Stus

WHEN WILL THIS FUCKING MEME DIE
Iconic armours are all in your head, it's what you want it to be, that's the "Iconic" armour. Example, some would say the Imperial Fist's iconic armour would be MkVII because they were at Terra, for others it would be MkII because they had a lot of vets and were led by the Emperor a lot, others might say it was MkIII because Iron, for some reason (thing is, everything looks better in MkIII, even fucking Word Bearers).
Things are like this:
MkII was being phased off. That means ALL legions had at least 80 000 units each at some point.
MkIII despite being Best armour™ was a specialist option. However, the heresy was so big that 1% of the Raven Guard with MkIII would still be 800 dudes, which is more bodies than your entire LGS.
MkIV was meant to be offishul armour at the end of the crusade, which is still prior to the heresy. So also everyone had a lot, and even the Warmaster's chosen still used MkII because "if it ain't broken don't fix it"
MkV doesn't exist: it's your parents. It's time someone told you.
MkVI was released also late Crusade, a few months before the actual heresy. But the conflict meant """ F E W """ (i.e. THOUSANDS) were issued, two whole legions already had it and other two had several thousands as test models (0.5% of the Iron Warriors is still 925).
MkVII well, the helmet has existed since MkII and nobody cares about the backpack.

So any answer is a speculation at best.

>WHEN WILL THIS FUCKING MEME DIE

The moment Jedis stop dressing like hobo karate kids and Klingons stop being war crazy bastards.

May-mays never die.

>>Drowns emotions in alcohol and potatoes
>Not DG
I don't know the relationship between brits and irish beyond what The Troubles article tells me, which actually Northern Ireland, and I call both islands "the brisith isles", but what would be the possibility that 30k refers to both Lerne and Albion as Albyon?
Because I've heard nothing about Ireland (or Lerne), and fists and WE recruited from all around Terra.

It's less about the fluff and more about which Legion looks the best in which mark.

>MkV doesn't exist
this is the meme that needs to die

mk2 and 3 for everyone, then

>two eyes
NOT HOW THIS WORKS REEEE

Hard to say. Brits are sensitive to upsetting people with attachment to this subject (esp GW) so I doubt they'd clarify that both were Albia, but they might mention some sort of ancient conflict.
Also in real history:
Albion is England
Alba is Scotland
So 'Albia' or 'Old Albia' is probably the 30K conflation of both. Essentially, I read Albia as the equivalent of the modern day mainland UK.

Side note, The Last Church, if you're a Scot like the author, is clearly set on the Isle of Skye.

Pfft how can it die if it hasn't even been born. It's just something I pulled from thin air because I know nothing of MkV. But it's called "Heresy" armour is it not? So it must have been used as much or even more than MkIV.

Their polearm is the dumbest thing ever, and they're not even named right. They can't be Guardian Spears because they're not fucking spears, they're halberds. Custodian Halberds. They're Specialist Weapons yet can't take a second Specialist Weapon (except for that one cool pic), despite all other 30k poleweapons (glaives, scythes and phoenix spears, which are actual spears) being Two-Handed.
Also, Custodian Halberds should be AP2, or are you telling me that both Khan and Guilliman created weapons better than what the Emperor got to his own Companions?

Just superglued the heavy flamers on my Leviathan instead of the Volkite Charger's, tell me I didn't fuck up /HHG/

... Are you high?

The custodes spear is strictly better in every way than the phoenix spear

>Pfft how can it die if it hasn't even been born. It's just something I pulled from thin air because I know nothing of MkV.

And it shows, because "MkV doesn't exist, it's just a post-Heresy designation to everything that's not one of the established marks" may-may has existed for some time.

>it's called "Heresy" armour is it not? So it must have been used as much or even more than MkIV.

It's called "Heresy armour" because it was created in response to the Heresy and stopped being made after the Heresy, because it was a piece of shit designed purely to have suits to fill the ranks and didn't offer anything new over the other marks.

Also, during the Schism of Mars, men and materials were evacuated, along with everything that was later used to design and manufacture the MkVII on Terra, so it's very likely MkVI designs and machinery was evacuated as well and could have been used to produce more suits during the Heresy.

I wouldn't call them "pale imitations" when the only thing they're lacking is +0.22/0.33 hits per weapon. They're almost the same.
More like "pretty much it just lacks a bolter on top of it, which somehow ruins the whole weight distribution of the weapon, since adding a lot of weight to one end seemingly balances it so that flurries of blows are possible".
Can someone post the Hueg sword of Huegness image?

>They can't be Guardian Spears because they're not fucking spears, they're halberds.

Did you know that pic related is not a sword, but just a knife?

>They're Specialist Weapons yet can't take a second Specialist Weapon

Just like assault marines can't take a second pistol, yet have the ability to fire two pistols. Wait and see what characters get before getting your panties in a twist.

>despite all other 30k poleweapons being Two-Handed.

Halberds are not two-handed, they're just regular power axes.

>which are actual spears

Look more like glaives to me.

>Custodian Halberds should be AP2, or are you telling me that both Khan and Guilliman created weapons better than what the Emperor got to his own Companions?

Top tier mass-produced weapons are still mass-produced. It's the same arguments that all Marines should have power swords before any IG sergeant gets one. Because Emperor's Angels of Death and all that.

You've made it significantly more terrifying in Zone Mortalis.

>Did you know that pic related is not a sword, but just a knife?
Yes, it's literally called Big Knife. And I don't even know that much german.
>Look more like glaives to me.
I forgot glaives were allowed spikes on top. Sure, that can do it.
>Just like assault marines can't take a second pistol, yet have the ability to fire two pistols
Huh? Everybody with two pistols gains Gunslinger.

>autism much?

Also, we're all well aware of the fact that every Legion used almost every mark of armor to some degree or another (the big exception being MkVI, which was only fielded in large numbers by the Raven Guard and Alphas until after the Heresy). But you seemed to miss the whole point of what 'iconic' means. It isn't "This is what Legion X uses and THAT'S IT". It's like how Emperor's Children are frequently seen in MkIV armor, or Salamanders are frequently seen using MkII and III. The whole post was literally based around opinion

>Which armour marks best represents each Legion?

Also, MkV armor is real you dumb cunt, it is just a blanket term which covers the wide variety of miscellaneous designs of armor created by various parties during the Heresy to make up for heavy losses and the cessation of deliveries by Mars. While no one design stands out as 'MkV', proto-MkVII helmets and armor studs tend to be signature features.

>Huh? Everybody with two pistols gains Gunslinger.

Yeah. It's the special rule associated with Pistols, but a very few models gets to benefit from it. So how is the Guardian Spear wasting it's Specialist Weapon? So far we have what amounts to experimental rules for one sprue set. Lets wait and see what the future brings, hmm?

Guys, let's calm our collective tits and relax over the whole Halberd thing. Just be glad we don't have to stat these things.

This

>we're all well aware of the fact that every Legion used almost every mark of armor to some degree or another
If only that were true. because
>It isn't "This is what Legion X uses and THAT'S IT"
That actually is it by most accounts

I thought he was holding a helmet that looked like his face. All the helmetless space marines should have face-helmets.

>you seemed to miss the whole point of what 'iconic' means

Seeing that the look of various armies has changed, it's hard to say what's the true iconic. DG seem to be associated with MkIII these days, but old DG were shown in MkIV. And pretty much everyone was in MkVI back in the day.

It's what one user did for his Bangle. Poor old marine found some Warpstone.

>>autism much?
Not gonna lie, I don't like questions for the sake of keeping the thread going. It's asking stuff for the sake of asking, rather than for an actual answer.
>Salamanders are frequently seen using MkII and III
The average Salamander is commonly depicted in MkIV, which is why I'm against that kind of opinions, which would cause people to think of something as unfluffy when it's not even a fact.
>MkV armor is real
Dammit it's a joke! Of course it's a real thing, we know how it looks like.
youtube.com/watch?v=TQ8y8AvXu5Q

>>It isn't "This is what Legion X uses and THAT'S IT"
Someone gets what I'm trying to say. Whatever helps to erase the idea that X armour for X legion is "wrong"

Don't worry, I got you.

S User/+1/+3 - AP 3/2/4 - Two-handed, Versatile, Thrown

Versatile: After charging this weapon uses the second profile, there after the controlling player can choose to use the first or third profile. If the player uses the third profile the weapon becomes unweildy and gains rending.

Thrown: The controlling player can use this weapon as a projectile with the profile below. If used in this way the model may not use this weapon again unless the targeted unit makes base to base contact with the model who threw this weapon.

S +1 - AP 3 - Assault 1

Claw, Melta, Flamers.
It feels like I fucked up really bad.
But I also really like the pose and the idea of it walking up, boiling an enemy infantry unit, then raping a light/medium armored unit.

I'm okay with this. FW, take notes.

I've had lots of time to think of weapons better than the nostroman chainglaive.

>AP4

The the Drop Assault vanguard Darken the Sky rule doesn't wording makes it so units within 12" dont snap fire when using interceptor because its the next player turn it activates. Does anyone play it so it affects interceptor? Considering the skies were already darkened since, y'know, the AMs were deployed. Is it just a case of bad rules writing?

Also why are the Outcast Sons and Orphans of Betrayal so baaaaaad

AP4 at +3 strength with rending.

It's meant to take on vehicles, which is also why it has unwieldy.

Funnily enough it never works because you'd be charging a vehicle nearly every time and forced to use the AP 2 S+1 profile instead.

These stat are clearly satire.

>Is it just a case of bad rules writing?

Its probably intentional to give the other player a chance to kill some assault marines with Interceptor instead of just being swarmed by them in turn 2.

pictures are up of the occult scarab terminator sprues on the NZ site

games-workshop.com/en-NZ/scarab-occult-terminators

Batmarines are probably edgy because of their Glaives being horrible. Unrelated pic.

That's even worse.

>The Sky is dark! Just not Dark enough. We need to twiddle our thumbs and pour diesel into our exhausts to darken it more-Wait are we being shot at?

Most interceptor is 18". You could in theory land 19" away from interceptor, but within 12" of other scary units and then run closer then jump. But that's a bit of a pain.

At the very least couldn't they make Sevatar's glaive AP 2 all the time?

Fucks sake, just give him artificer armour. He's first captain, there's literally no excuse.

That missile launcher is new low in GW design.

>These stat are clearly satire.
Nothing the srs bssnz Pole-Chainfist can't solve.
'S(User)/+1 AP3, alternate profile Chainfist, because it's basically a Chainfist in a pole with a power sauroter on the back. It also gives the user True grit.

His dad probably had something to do with it, or maybe he thought he didn't need it.

Pikemen made it into the early 1700s, I think. The better bayonets weren't in use yet.

Kek. Not only that. He's wearing regular power armour. Nostramo, a planet with a loooot of adamantium, and no NL special character is wearing artificer armo-
WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT MISSILE LAUNCHER?!

The other sprues are too.

Def saving the last 10 MKIII of my BoP to give those warpflamers. I don't care if TS dont get actual warpflamers I just want to use those sweet flamer models.

Also if the TS RoW is bad I'll be using an Army of Dark Compliance with those Tzaangors.

I think it was more that firearms at the time weren't good enough to make dedicated close-combat units useless. A musket could shoot and stab, but it couldn't shoot well enough to make up for it's lack of stabbing power.

>WHAT THE FUCK IS UP WITH THAT MISSILE LAUNCHER?!

Had to give traitors CML, but had to work around that head piece, instead of working the head piece into the launcher instead. I'm sure there's people who'll just put a CML on a suit without the top piece.

Or fast enough. But artillery made tight formations dangerous and as more and more (and better) firearms became available, the pikemen went from bodyguard to literal meatshield.

To add to the theory of Albia being Scotland, they had a history of people raiding across the border at dusk, and the phrase 'caught red handed' first appears in Scottish law.

Isn't there a passage that hints at the Dusk Raiders also came from Birmingham?

>Magos: We're doing these specs on adamantium rather than ceramite. Now of course adamantium is much heavier than ceramite, so they won't be able to run.
>Sorcerer1: No we can't lose speed, if we lose speed it won't work as a scout armour.
>Sorcerer2: It won't keep pace with Tactical support either
>Sorcerer3: Thicker armour is a reactive measure, let's think pro-active here. I say equip the thing with anti-tank missiles. Then it can blast those enemy tanks before they get a chance to fire. What do you think, Magos?
>Magos: *doesn't give a fuck anymore* FINE!
>Adept Auxilia: Anti tank missiles? Where do I put them? The space marines will have to wear the missiles as bunny ears
>Magos: I don't know, Adept! It's why you get payed the big STC fragments
>Adept: Magos, there's no room. We're not talking abo-
>Magos: about a pair of artificer pants, I know, I know! Omnissiah deliver me! What we're talking about is 100 years with nothing to show for, except a suit the size of an ogryn and a career in permanent halt! You see this? I've been, I've been a Raptora Tech-assist for so long I swear I'm growing scales! Now if you have to design bunny ears to hold those goddammed missiles then just do it!
youtube.com/watch?v=pyakI9GeYRs
biased movie is biased, no biggie

Holy fuck, is that accurate of what happened to the Bradley?

Not at all. The development process for it was convoluted and a little messy but the movie blows it out of proportion. It ended being a pretty decent IFV.

>It ended being a pretty decent IFV.

Mainly by accident, as it proved to be well enough suited to the environment of fighting 3rd world sand people, rather than the Soviet Block it was designed to fight.