/wmhg/ - Warmachine/Hordes General

the sad thing is the animantarax is probably the best heavy in the faction that isn't the gladiator. it's got a shitty gun it can't boost, but skorne's 18pt beasts don't have guns (BB and bug and despoiler) and its RAT is 5 which is awful, but skorne RAT gets worse than that.

then its got native pathfinder, and doesn't require a gladiator and rush to have Threat Range because its SPD7 which means it can do a 14" turn 1 run if it wants.

but four PS 18s, at least 2 pow 13s and two PS11s is not awful in the context of skorne.

such a sad state of affairs

>four PS 18s
As a menoth player that loves his castigator, that is appropriately stompy. Perhaps not for a ~6 point premium though, but that is (mostly) the price of self sufficiency and no Skorne players on the design team.

Circle players should look forward to seeing Cygnar lists with hurricanes in them more often.

I'm thinking Haley1 and her antimagic might be a good wormwood/una drop.

It's all relative.

For example, the gun becomes far more useful with eHexxy, where it can trigger Black Spot attacks for more POW18 punches.

Lanyssa nearly solves that issue as well.

Arcane Vortex: This model can immediately negate any spell that targets it or a model within 3" of it by spending 1 focus point. The negated spell does not take effect but its COST remains spent.

Haley3 is one of the best wurmwood drops imo

No, man.

Lanyssa removes flight on models near her, which destroys Una2's entire thing.

Una's new figure is dick quenching

well yeah, but Lanyssa is about a thousand times easier to kill than a hurricane. No harm in having both in a list anyway.

I... I just want a hurricane okay? I dont like the big gun horns on the stormwall and Nemo 3 is super fun to play alright?

Lanyssa only kills flight for models activating within 9", which is not terribly threatening to an army with two Sentry Stones.

It's something 2na has to deal with, but it's not as strong of a counter as it initially seems.

>Lanyssa only kills flight for models activating within 9"

Just to be clear, she does not strip flight from anything within 9" when she casts Winter Storm, she only strips it from models that *activate* within 9". So if you shoot her to death before activating any Griffons, it does nothing.

And 2na is going to kill her with sprays, which both ignore her Prowl and can't be Shield Guarded away.

Lanyssa is so good she's probably getting nerfed in the January errata, but she isn't anything close to a hard counter for 2na.

>And 2na is going to kill her with sprays,
Sentry stones are going to get nerfed into the ground.

Probably, but then 2na will default to a Pureblood, since she really wants big sprays to clear landing zones.

How do you play that matchup? I have real problems imagining a game plan for it.

>talking up WMH to my LGS owner
>realizes he jumped the gun on 40k

Guys, I'm almost giddy. I might have WMH close by.

That's amazing. My only real issue with the hobby is that it takes me 3-4h of public transport to get there and back.

Afaik, there are no places to play WMH within an hour's drive of me. This place is 15min away, and I know people in the store who have models already.

Question lads. How many Minis are a full choir? Is it counted per mini?

On the card it says: 4 dudes for 4 points, 6 dudes for 6 points. So for 6 points you get a full choir of 6 dudes (1 leader + 5 grunts).

I live a 10 minute walk away from my LGS that plays WMH ;^)

Well lucky you. Can't say I'm not jelly.

I checked the main store of Warmachine, they only sell single models. Yet on ebay there are packs. For what reason

I'm thinking of starting Hordes, Trollbloods to be specific. Thing is, Warlocks I like are Calandra, Horgle2 and Grissel. Are they noob-friendly? What would be some good lists with them?

>I checked the main store of Warmachine, they only sell single models.
Oh you mean Privateerpress.com? They only sell bits directly. Their complete miniatures are only available through retailers. There are however certain Black Friday deals available directly from their online store. If you're from the US they're worth a look.

They are comparatively noob-friendly. You should keep in mind that you will still lose a lot early on. Experience is key.

Those warlocks like very different things though. I am not a Troll expert, so I can only give you rough estimates.

Calandra likes things with good defensive stats and things that benefit a lot from rerolls. I've seen Highwaymen + Braylen with her, but also Nyss Hunters. But she really turns everything up to 11. Even models with DEF12 (which is most trollblood models) are deceptively hard to hit under starcrossed.

Horgle2 is pretty new and in fact not released yet. The general consensus is that he likes the Mountain King and Fire Eaters a lot. Pyre Trolls and Slag Trolls are worthy of consideration aswell.

I am not sure about Grissel. In Mk2 she liked to brick up with Champions and Warders, but that might have changed. It also depends on whether you mean Grissel1 or Grissel2.

Both Grissel1 and 2. Losing isn't a problem, what worries me is ease of play, I used to dabble a bit in Cryx years ago, got Mortenebra as soon as she came out, then the WM craze died down as many players dropped off, how much of a difference there is from MK1?

It's still the same game though a TON of details have changed. Don't worry about it too much, it'll come naturally.

Trollblood player x 4 years.

pGrissel isn't hard and she's a bit weak right now. Take something that abuses Hoof It (LongRiders) and something that can potentially abuse Heroic Ballad (Mulg or maybe a unit of Champs in new theme force).

Grissel 2, just build stuff that can abuse her amazing shouts/gun. Two bombers are really good with her, as she knocks it down, they blast it to hell. She's also one of the few locks I would consider Runeshapers with, as with Deflection and Dig In, you're looking at DEF 18 Trolls to shooting. Pretty legit.

I know that feel, bro.

I've got Cygnar and Protectorate, and no release date on their sexy new colossals.

In the meantime you can just take Cygnar to tournaments and rake in the prizes for the next month and a half.

There is always that.

I never thought that basing, even as poorly as mine, would make a model look so damn cool.

I just wanted to show off my first based and painted models, even if they aint quite done yet.

I watched that venethrax game, both of the players were fucking awful. And it was a garbage venethrax list. Further, who puts a fucking pool/forest/big impassable terrain piece right in the middle of the board?

>who puts a fucking pool/forest/big impassable terrain piece right in the middle of the board?

You see that sometimes, and should be ready for it.

People that follow Hungerfords terrain guidelines. He suggests 8 pieces, including an obstacle in the middle and another off on one flank.

>Further, who puts a fucking pool/forest/big impassable terrain piece right in the middle of the board?
People who understand that gunlines are dominating right now so want to use terrain as a balancing factor.

>Further, who puts a fucking pool/forest/big impassable terrain piece right in the middle of the board?

People who want terrain to be a functional part of the game, that both armies are forced to interact and deal with, instead of pretty set-dressing.

>Terrain in Warmachine
>girlslaughing.jpg

Terrain is pretty shitty in this game. Mark 3 made it even less significant.

>Terrain is pretty shitty in this game.

So what? It's still part of the game, and it's still something you have to plan to deal with.

That's why you make sure the terrain in the middle is a forest.

I'm really torn about that, myself.

On one end, I do not like the idea of using terrain as a balance. It encourages very specific kind of terrain setups rather than varying it, which removes variety from the games.

On the other end, it's absolutely a factor that you can't ignore.

Like, I want terrain to be able to be setup in various ways rather than specific ones(In this example, always needing some form of LOS blocking terrain in the center), but having terrain have an effect on the game means it's going to encourage certain setups.

It's a pretty ugly issue, I think.

I remember when a guy without pathfinder clipping a forest made him stop his charge where he was.
I think terrain is currently relevant without being too binary

I'd rather play on the same map every game than see the same list every game.

The problem is that once you start playing on the same map, people are just going to tailor their lists to play on that map.

If you know exactly where the terrain will be every game, people are just going to factor that into list construction.

No, varying terrain, so long as it's done right, actually encourages list variety more because you can't account for terrain.

>varying terrain, so long as it's done right, actually encourages list variety more because you can't account for terrain
Shut the fuck up, no matter what the terrain is, it's still going to be Wurmwood, Madrak2, Cygnar, Khador, and Ret fucking up the metagame with their overpowered rules.

You know, assuming they don't do anything to change them in the errata like they're going too.

Yeaaah, but if the entire board is shallow water you will see Harkevich instead of Karchev :^)

Until we see karchev Kodiak spam

That's far less of a problem, man.

Mad Dog spam has to do with how cheap the Mad Dogs are, it doesn't work nearly as well with more expensive jacks, even if they're more powerful.

That's the joke

Even a simple base of flock grass makes a model look so much better than a plain black one.

It also works in reverse. I've seen really nice looking models that are dragged down by being left on the plain black base with the fucking slot still open.

How come Legion keeps getting put in the mid to low tiers on Veeky Forums's lists when on the tournament reports I've seen it's still managing to place a decent amount of times?

It's not even just how cheap they are, it's that they've got Jury-Rigged for some fucking reason at that pricepoint.

Remove that rule and they wouldn't be a problem. They'd also be unplayable so that's probably not a good solution.

Veeky Forums is bad at games.

Player skill is 90% of the wins in this game.

That IS mid tier.

Veeky Forums doesn't realise that Legion has some really strong infantry. Hex Hunters will never stop being good.

>Magic Ability 6
>14/12 with no good defensive tech
>15 points for 10

They're alright, I guess.

Then how does Cygnar, a top tier faction according to Veeky Forums, not top 3 a single tourney since WTC?

14 IS your defensive tech. They slaughter infantry and throw POW13s into warnouns which prevents the hit model from making special actions, special attacks, or power attacks. That's hella legit.

You mean like winning the European Invitational?

I think Calandra isn't a good caster for beginners. She's a good caster competitively, but her whole shtick is making your dice better and opponent's dice worse.
She may trick unexperienced people into incorrect perception of how game usually plays out.

14 isn't shit, man, not right now. They die to blasts, they die to guns seeing as how most have some form of boost, they die to everything.

How the fuck do they slaughter infantry, man? They're not especially fast, and MA6 isn't going to be hitting anything but DEF12.

Hex Hunters are MAT7. And being able to take out the front line AND the back line is very potent since you can't really counter something like that through spreading out. The fact that they have access to a ranged POW13 just seems insane to me. Then there's the Swordsmen, your obligatory "we can kill your heavies" small infantry, who are 14/13s what the shit.

cast fog of war my lad

Talking about magic ability, not MAT. And they've got fairly short threat ranges, out threated by most melee infantry pretty hard.

Most shit either ignores or doesn't care about stealth.

Maybe it's better to start with the battlebox? And maybe start expanding from there, with something I think everyone would like, like a Mauler, a Bomber and a Krielstone?

Not a lot ignores concealment, though. And that puts them up to def 16. Will they die to blasts? Sure, if you jam them all together for no reason; they gotta have some way to die.

I feel Veeky Forums is bad at warmachine and hordes. Pretty much any non-premium model gets talked bad against here. It's like there's some expectation that a model is crap if the enemy can kill it, or if it could ever fail to kill an enemy model.

Oh, and Veeky Forums always believes that you will be facing a hail of boosted RAT 8 POW 12 guns at the top of two regardless of opponent or list compositions.

Guys. I'm watching a WMH game going on at my LGS. I think this is the start of something great.

I think it might be time to grab the starter box for Cryx

So now that I became disenchanted with mk3 can you recommend me the closest thing to warmahordes that isnt warhammer?

JUSTICE FOR CRYX

>I think it might be time to grab the starter box for Cryx
Quick tip: Unless you're going to participate in some sort of beginner league, don't fully assemble your heavy warjacks right away and buy the Erebus and Malice upgrade kits.

They're like ten bucks each and Cryx's character heavies tend to be better than their generic heavies (Inflictor being the big exception, that thing is 10/10 you'll eventually own 2).

If I get this right you can heal constructs but cant repair living models, right?

All abilities that remove damage will specify what model types they can be used on.

>So what? It's still part of the game, and it's still something you have to plan to deal with.

You're right Captain Obvious. Both your statement and mine can be true.

>That's why you make sure the terrain in the middle is a forest.

lol, I remember in Mark 2 a local guy would setup tables like that. He was a Legion player.

>I remember when a guy without pathfinder clipping a forest made him stop his charge

I remember that too. I think Mark 2 was a pretty good mix. This "completely within" nonsense, which leads to some idiotic and nonsensical points in the game is pretty stupid though.

I was totally going magnetize everything, yea. I've never done it, though.

Still not 100% on Cryx, though I love the demon pirate blood witches and soul engines and blah blah.

Better to buy a starter box or the holiday box? I might be able to get an exceptionally cheap starter.

Random question from a noob who doesn't like apps: will I find MK3 or MK2 cards in the boxes I buy, starter sets excluded?

Depends on when it was made. Anything shipped before Mk3 launched will have Mk2 cards in it.

Mk3.1. Coming to a game store near you in January.

Failing that, Guild Ball.

Send help I got no clue where I'm going or what I'm doing all I know is I must Dig

If you buy any new WMH models and they do not come with Mk3 cards, complain to your supplier.

I'm not too sure about that list. It kills all the dudes all day, but doesn't crack armor at all. If your other list can help with that you could get by and play this one into gunlines (Ossyan, Vlad/Butcher1, even Sloan/Caine2 should be doable). For those matchups however I'd go for the Command Attachment on the second unit of Trenchers or just go with one unit.

If you're just getting into Cygnar, I wouldn't go too deep with one kind of unit though. One unit of Trenchers with all the bells and whistles is fine and will find use in many different lists, but two is a rare case.

Finn is a beast, that is for sure. I am undecided on the Cannon Crews. They're pretty damn slow, but I haven't tested them, so I don't know if that invalidates them.

If you want to go for some jank, take out the second unit of trenchers and replace it with Jakes + 2x Grenadier. They are the diggiest of warjacks and Synergize really well with Trenchers.

I think not having a Junior in your list is actually not an issue. The Centurion is sturdy enough as is and the rest of your army is fine without Arcane Shield.

Hex Hunters threat 12" with their bolts. Most infantry threats 11" on the charge.

Hex Hunters are Magic Ability 6 which means even hitting DEF12 infantry isn't exactly amazing.

It's balanced out by them themselves having higher than average DEF.

The DEF issue was already discussed.

How is the old Cryx battle group with Dennegrah? Worth picking up for like $30?

PDenny is still pretty strong. 30bucks are fine but you will need the new card box.

I have the PDF, though I suppose new cards would be nice.

What about the Bonejacks and Slayer? Still good? I'm hoping both boxes would be a decent place to start.