Warhammer 40k general

>>Black Legion raptor talon
>>Jump pack warlord with talons gets DIMENSIONAL KEY
>>deep strike turn 1 for speartip with your catulan reaver bros and charge turn 1, killing some chump
>>the entire rest of your army is justaerin terminators in the annihilation force and they are comin in hot and they do not scatter
>>?!?!?!?!?!??

...if it's like angels of death with the old relics being usable too... does this work?

DESU these Traitor Legion rules are makihe want to start an Iron Warriors, Thousand Suns, or Alpha Legion army.

DO IT

>tfw you're a Thousand Sons player that started to assemble a Night Lord force.
It might not be great, but it sure will be fun.

Swap World Eaters and Thousand Sons and you're about right.

Seriously, the huge amount of free buff stacking plus roll charge distance as a scout move that isn't scouting makes them an actually viable melee horde. Sure, Eldar will still beat them down, but otherwise they get a bit closer and are much better at pressing redundant threats to close and blend.

They can attempt 1st turn charges can't they? Because there's no blanket restriction on charging in the first turn, just that normally it's impossible without abilities that specifically deny it (eg. scout, infiltrate)

What do you do, put them in rhinos for sure protection, however temporary, or you rely on the gamble of the legion tactics and 2d6 move berzerkers on foot?

You could fuck up and get snake eyes, move 2" and get shot to pieces slogging up the board

>>viable melee horde
Craft a list and show it user, do it do it.

Yes, it's basically chaos chapter tactics for anyone with VOTLW.
The only thing you have to do is declare them black legion to get the rules, but the turn 1 reserves is decurion only I think.

>WB
>Worst

Shit.

Soes the book improve a Word Bearer army any or what? Like is it just bad compared to other things in the book but it still improves them a little or is it actually shit?

>>Rhinos
No. Fuck rhinos. Rhinos are the worst for world eaters. If it gets destroyed, which it ALWAYS will, they cannot charge.

NO RHINOS.

IMO, mass smaller squads to divide up fire and maximize chances of getting a good pseudo scout move is probs best?

does the non-scout move extend to dedicated transports like scout does?

If you are trying to run World Eaters, looks like you are better off with KDK then?

Could you do a World Eater KDK list? Or is it CSM only?

You roll separately for every unit. MSU will statistically guarantee a few of them get good rolls and they can tie down the shooting threats for a turn while everything else makes it the rest of the way of the board and brings the hammer.

They can.
Berserker bikers can move 2d6 at game start, move 12" and then attempt a charge, rerolling any dice as needed.

Cheap marine squads on foot then bikers.

Good relics, good warlord traits, harness warp charges when summoning daemons on 3+, some free boons of mutation... it's an improvement for sure, just very, very overshadowed by the other Legions.

Well I mean, if you want to see a Melee hode work with currently released rules, try building up two units of 20 flesh hounds and closing them from the flanks as some more threats slide up the middle to follow the vanguard.

I'll look into exact composition of a World Eaters list when I have the actual pages: At the moment I just see fearless, pseudo-scouting, rerollable charges and extra in-melee rules. Fearless alone is big, means you need to completely deplete units to stop them.

Depends on what kind of tables you usually play on, but mine have plenty of LOS blocking/ruins terrain that you could deploy the WE in - roll your 2d6", if it's low just don't move, if it's high then go for a hail mary charge or move to new terrain in the middle of the board.

What's the average - 2d6" not-scout, 6" move, 2d6-with-reroll charge?

It looks like the Legions all get Fearless, which is pretty good. Just gotta remember about not being able to use OWOU to get out of combat.

They also still perils on any double on malefic, which WILL fuck you up more than it helps, harness on 3s or not. You're a lot better off just ignoring summoning and starting off with a shitload of daemons on the board, using them to summon instead. You won't benefit from half the WB rules but at the very least you'll be fluffy

But money though

Probably about 21-22. It'd be 20 without the reroll.

(7 average + 6 + 7 average)

Maybe turn one chargers will be rare, but you -will- cross the board effectively on your first turn and leave your opponent in a mad scramble to try to avoid turn 2 charges.

Would Raptor Talons be effective for WE?

Well mine is just bezerkers, bikes and daemons. Its not technically WEs, I was just wondering what would work better.

Is there a breakdown of the new rules anywhere?

bolterandchainsword.com/topic/328002-traitor-legions/page-33#entry4581160

Disordered charge robs them of the bonuses from MoK and Legion Tactics, so not really, no.

So as far as I can tell, the only difference between a five man melee WE marine squad with no upgrades and a 5 man berzerker squad with no upgrades is one has WS5 and one is 20 points cheaper.

If they charged soft targets on the first turn, ones that don't need the extra attacks, they could stay in combat in the enemy's shooting phase and finish the unit off in the enemy's assault phase.

Then, they're balls-deep in the enemy's deployment zone and can charge whatever they like second turn, with full MoK and Legion Tactics benefits.

Jesus, who did the art in the most recent Tau codex? It's definitely a bizarre change in aesthetic.

The only way to get a turn 1 deep strike is to run them in Black Legion.

And heck, that isn't even the weirdest piece.

You should see the picture of the IG and Tau battle lines coming together - there's stormsurges about 20m from baneblades.

So I am building a harlequin army with c
Dark Eldar coven. I am using the grotesquerie with a subway portal in a raider. That with a shadowed and the mask that gives -2 ld makes for a large -3 ld bubble. My shadowed them know psychic shriek to dish out some wounds. Anyway I am wondering if I should put Liquifier guns on my grotesques letting them drop in a put down three flamers with s3 ap d6 for 45 points. Does that sound worth giving up close combat weapons?

I thought the plan was to have them on the board turn one - use the 2d6" not-scout and their own 12" movement to get some 1st turn charges off?

Well I mean, you try drawing a decent picture with a Stormsurge as your reference.

I don't want to though. I want to start with all CSM units on the board.

Wrath of Magnus epub when?

You know, in a way, I can really see this sell to a younger audience.... No really, I would never get one myself (fuck... who the hell am I lying to!).

Think about it, this could really be an investment on GW´s part. Something to put the 40k lore on the map, outside the hobby so to speak. They did it well in video games, why not LEGO? And it would make the "buhu, this hobby is so expensive" idiots shut the hell up for once, as LEGO definitely is more expensive than this hobby (trust me, I have a kid of age 6, I know!)

They're expensive for low strength and random ap, even so I like liquifier guns to melt chaff.

is there any instruction on how to build something like that?

Then do so and hope you have fun.

As a TS player, I was happy for any update and I can play my Legion, even if its not amazingly good. I can finally rule the psychic phase and play on my own terms. I'm superhappy for my Legion brethren, even if some/most are straight up miles ahead of mine. At least we can all agree on one thing.

DEATH TO THE FALSE EMPEROR!

Oh well in that case then yes, they're solid, and you don't have to worry about the disordered charge unless you're trying to tie down multiple units. But then you're not using the main benefit of the Raptor Talon formation which is charging from deep strike... although I guess if it's the only way to take Raptors in the Decurion, then, go for it.

I think you can take 1-3 units of raptors in the Warband, but people might want to save those slots for bikes.

NEW FAQ FOR PINK HORRORS OUT OF WOM.

Q: Do the new Pink Horrors get Malefic psychic powers?
A: No, they do not get Daemonology (Malefic) Powers.

THAT AUTIST FAGGOT ARGUING WITH EVERYONE JUST GOT BTFO

THANK YOU GW

Full FAQ, for WoM, already.

warhammer-community.com/2016/12/03/wrath-of-magnus-faq/

source?

They're still fucking absurd.

I know but it's always nice to see faggy rules-lawyers get officially shut the fuck down.

They're still a ridiculous tarpit and warp charge generator, but "wholly within" helps to the super abusive stuff. Now they're just really absurdly efficient rather than breaking the whole game.

>Take twenty pink horrors
>Cast possession
>Get 40 blue horrors and 20 LoC
Fun fun fun.

3 points for Objective Secured troops, with a 5++ invul would already be really good. The fact that they're Fearless against shooting AND generate Warp Charges AND can cast shit of their own is insanely good.

The fact that you can generate multiple units of these insanely good units FOR FREE just by your opponent killing your shit is Wraithknight tier broken.

So, what's the best way to kill them? I only play rarely and I haven't fought a chaos force in more than a decade.

This isn't going to stop anyone vetoing games against this shit.
GW needs to learn we don't want this shit in our games.

>No amendements or errata
JUST PUT IN A LINE THAT SAYS RUBRIC AND TERMIE SORCS CAN BUY SPELL FAMILIAR YOU FUCKS

I am totally calm but I'm disappointed by their lack.

There is no best way to kill them, that's the point.
The first two times you destroy their unit they get a new one for free, Tzeentch is the new WAAC army.

The new Tau.

>not 80 blue horrors

gotta take the tzerald w/locus

What does WAAC stand for? Win at all costs or something?

yes. exactly that.

That's exactly it. There's the other extreme, which is a lot rarer: HAAC, Hobby at all costs. These types of autists will shit on you for going even a toe out of line when it comes to fluff or minmaxing at all.

I remember one guy on here who used to call other anons children because they counts-as some weapons different to how they modeled it, claiming it was being a cheese faggot and they should quit the hobby.

As the FAQ mention it's Daemonic Instability tests. So assault. You want something that wont actually kill the whole unit with attacks, but will hit them hard enough to wipe it in a single phase from the instability test.

If you can get them to blow up from demonic instability in close combat then they don't split at all

Easier said then done.

That doesn't sound particularly fun to play against. What kind of points is a typical daemon aids-army going to be at?

That guy sucks. I do plenty of conversion work on my guys, there's plenty of counts as and no one's ever had a problem. My favourite currently is a deathwatch captain with a tech harness, robo legs and skorge's chainsaw from GoW2 as a power weapon. Where's the fun in not being creative.

I've said it before, but I expect 8th to introduce AoS style Reinforcement points. This FAQ even hints at this. Once you have to pay for any Blue or Brimstone Horrors you want to get via split they'll merely be very good.

the creative aspect is great, but he was just saying that if you modelled a meltagun on your model, you're being a cheesy faggot if you count it as a flamer f.ex to get some form of advantage against the current army you're facing.

I modelled my Berzerker Champion with dual lightning claws because they looks fucking badass. He can't even take Dual LCs anymore (this was during 5th)

Well the random so is not that bad, they have a 50% chance to eat through meq 3+ saves. S3 really is not that bad when you consider the possibility of no armor save.

It's the basic Tzeentch troop choice so it can be any points. This is the kind of thing were after a a token game or so you just politely decline to play them.

After reading the traitor legion rule leaks, despite some of the stuff looking really cool none of it comes close to the like of skyhammer or 300 points of free transports.

finally an option for CSM null deploy! several years late, but better than never... And terminators as troops! Now if only terminators were good...

Anyone got a rip/scan of Wrath of Magnus yet?

Legions now have some really amazing combos and some of the stuff is outright fucking top-tier, like Death Guard.

A Chaos Marine with T5, FnP 6+, Fearless, Relentless, a cover save beyond 18", that reduces WS and I by 1 within 7" for 16 points. That is insane. They literally overshadow Plague Marines now.

Now stick this statline on havocs with 4 autocannons. A moving wall of bullets.

What would a 40k Blood Bowl look like?

Oh I think we will see more similarities to AoS than that friend. You and me both knows that AoS was a try-out for maximizing sales ("buy what ever you want man" style of play), 40k is sure to follow.

And in a way, I don't even mind at this stage. Sure, I think 40k is fun, when you play the right people. But can also be horribly boring when facing the wrong people. With less rule-lawyering, and more gameplay to hit the game nights, there is (while simplified) more fun overall. And with a "you go figure it out" attitude from GW, the guys bringing the WAAC fag lists simply wont have anyone to play against. That was the main issue of hatred I think regarding AoS to begin with. The lack of rules made it so everyone brought just about all they owned to the table, only to find no one wanting to play them (surprise, surprise...).

Lack of points would be fun in my meta. I can field all my TS without giving a fuck if I'm fielding like 20 models due to absurd points cost. Of course I can imagine people refusing to play against any of the top cheese on the basis of "you're already strong as fuck and you're probably bringing 3K points to a 1,5K game".

>("buy what ever you want man" style of play)
40k basically already has that with allies and Unbound armies. AoS'izing wouldn't change things unless they absolutely delete the rules in the manner of original AoS rather than doing something General's Handbook-like.

>Lack of points would be fun in my meta.
Won't happen. What actually started giving AoS life was ADDING in points with the GHB. Expect all manner of rules simplifications though.

FNP 5+! They just get regular FNP.

Also they re-roll FNP rolls of 1.

wtf, you people told me Dark Eldar were shit! Deldar fast troops are killing the shit out of most Maelstrom missions.

Does anyone here even play 40k?

I legit wouldn't mind that. 40k is a clusterfuck of rules. It needs some serious reformatting.

manticgames.com/games/dreadball.html

>Does anyone here even play 40k?

Hah hah! No.

Well, actually, I do - I have done for 12 years now, but I think most people on here just feedback loop what they've heard.

My bad, thanks bro. Point stands eh, Death Guard players are now borderline Eldar-tier.

And everyone is killing the shit out of Deldar troops since basic bolters are more than enough to wipe out the whole army.

I think they learned their lesson with the Generals Handbook; players do want to have access to points. So I'd expect them to include the same for 40K.

Frankly at this point it's starting to look like they'd be stupid not to go down an Age of Sigmar style rules path for 40K. AoS is surging in popularity, and the rules are what's holding back 40K right now. There needs to be a rules crunch; not necessarily as extreme as AoS did, but certainly breaking things down a lot. The game is bloated and daunting to newcomers, and that's not a good thing.

>that reduces WS and I by 1 within 7" for 16 points.
That's only the plague zombie formation.

where the fuck are these traitor legions rules leaks
I just got off work and my chaosboner needs to know more

>Death Guard players are now borderline Eldar-tier

Oh man, please don't say that. I've been waiting 6 years to get DG legion rules, now I might not get to use them because they're too good?

So are Orks confirmed worst army in 40k now?

>tfw you play Black Templars and really want formations that utilize Crusader squads but don't want to say anything lest you get shit on for complaining as a Space Marines player

Bolter and Chainsword, there's a thread in the News and Rumours section called 'Traitor Legions', leak starts on page 34