How do I play a Lawful Evil character without making the game worse for everyone involved?

stay within the laws, don't break them. use them to your advantage to further your nefarious plots. you plots don't involve mass destruction or devastation usually, merely a consequence of you plans. your ultimate goal is more accumulation of power to leverage towards your ultimate goal.

ultimately, you are the epitome of self benefit

every time

every time i come to these threads this little shit posts this stupid post

keep your word
hold to the the law, if only the letter of it
understand that those you work with are also an important asset to what ever you want to achieve so don't fuck them over for a few shiny baubles.

But yes me comes first
You try to place your interest first if possible. But if the wizard really, really wants to give the statue of M'ekay to the orphans you make sure that you get your more than fair share now or later.
Also a wasted/destroyed/barren world/country/city is of no use to it a great full one is one ready for exploitation

Being lawful or evil doesn't imply that you need to dick ass your allies.

All being Lawful means is that you have a particular way you do things and nothing is going to make you change that. In some cases maybe that does mean acting within the bounds of the law but otherwise you simply do not compromise. Being "evil" in the D&D sense is that you place your own wants and needs firmly above others and are not concern whether that confflicts with others.

On the other hand being Chaotic means you are perfectly willing and able to change what you do and how you do it.

For example. Aizen would be the perfect example of Chaotic Evil. everyone and everything is a means to an end for him and he gave zero fucks who died for it because for him, achieving God mode was the only thing that mattered. That said, Urahara would be Chaotic Good.

>All being Lawful means is that you have a particular way you do things
No it doesn't.

There was that Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes episode where Captain America is holding a Skrull for interrogation and the Skrull taunts him saying that "you won't hurt me, because you're a hero".

Captain America then says "I won't, but she will", pointing to a fellow prisoner in a giant spaceship prison, who happens to be a deadly member of an enemy organization that he's forced to cooperate with.

As Lawful Evil, you're that guy the party calls upon to be the Bear Jew.

Propose the simplest, most ruthless, straightforward ways to deal with party headaches, and otherwise adhere to your party members because they're your friends/you have a personal code/they let you further your wealth and upbringing/the evil lich that is destroying everything and plowing the land is not very good for you because you'd rather live, etc.

Put on interesting twist. Play like you are playing the most noble of paladins but have it be for purely selfish reasons. You aren't doing it to help people. You are do it it for the wealth. The power. The glory. You are doing it because you want people to love you because that it what you deserve.

>Captain America then says "I won't, but she will",
Which means he's a hypocrite.
An actual hero doesn't delegate the dirty jobs. If you believe that something is wrong, it's not on your agenda. If you believe it's necessary anyway, you may as well do it yourself. The responsibility is yours either way.
(that's besides the part where studies have shown that torture doesn't actually work, which is completely irrelevant to Veeky Forums)

Conquer. Conquer everything and everyone. It is your divine right to lead, and you will lead the people of the world to greatness, even if they don't see it right now.

But that's just one way to play it.

Going to share the rough lines of a LE Healer I played a while back
HE got involved with the party on orders form his higher ups. He did not chose to be with the party, but orders are orders.
The party was a bit iffy on accepting healing from a evil god but the neutral rouge manged to talk the rest of them into it.
Not fucking the party over or bailing on them earned their trust and from there he started to plot.
He was now stronger than his direct higher up. But above all he realized that his buddies are the most powerful tool at hand.
So he used them to start moving up in the rungs of his organisation. Both via normal advancement, gaining more personal power (loot and exp) and removing the odd problem on the ladder by sticking his more zealous compatriots on them.
His end goal had become to take over his organisation and the build it to new heights. At this point his most powerful tool became his biggest liability as they could bunch up on him and stopping him if his true designs came to light. So he started planning some counter measures and finding new friends.
The campaign ended without in party bloodshed. He had manged to stockpile more loot than the other party members. Got a few tricks in case they became hostile (including blackmail stuff and the wizards family) and other powerful friends. Once the country was saved he took over his organisation that was now truly HIS and with "hero of the country" goody points made sure it got even more and more power.
The rouge got bored and wandered off.
The meatshield lived his life of valor into a ripe old age and then died in his sleep.
the caster got sucked into his studies.
And I waited, planed, extended my life and once they where gone took over the country and some more without a single drop of blood.
The next crisis had rolled around, the king was to young and I was there with the backing of my powerful new friends, my status as a hero and an organisation that had been holding the strings.

You are right, and now that I think of it, the meaning of that scene was basically Cap rolling Intimidate rather than actually letting Viper torture the Skrull. You are correct.

You are willing and able to do acts of evil and encourage them for they are usually easier solutions (i.e. the village needs saving, but you can sacrifice these random farmers to save the rest of the village easier), but you can and will restrain yourself for the convenience of others.

Have an ironclad unbreakable reason that your interests align with the party through the end of the campaign. This can be as basic as saving the world because you want to keep living in it.

Don't actually do anything evil when anyone's watching. The most dangerous villain is the one no one expects.

Darth Vader is lawful evil, while his goals might not be good in nature they are well structured.

Great argument, champ. Wish I could be as kewl as you. Shame you're entirely wrong. :^)

Actually, yes. If you follow the letter of the law rather than its spirit, that can certainly be used for corrupt ends. You might also use the status and power of your position to benefit yourself in ways that aren't outright illegal but are still shady at best, like a Baron's treasurer giving favourable treatment to certain guilds and traders in return for 'gifts'.

Just like Lawful Good characters don't always blindly follow the law of the land, neither do Lawful Evil. You can combine all the above with a willingness to use violence and murder to get your way, should legal methods prove wanting.

He's right though. Two LE characters could be poles apart. An evil warrior-monk who scorns material possessions and only wants to perfect his art, and a fat murderous nobleman who wants to eat and get rich, are nothing alike.

I could argue that Neutral Evil is the easiest of Evils to fit in with a group, but only so long as they're Neutral Evil with a lower-case e. Recall that the archetypical example of a Neutral Evil character is a common thief.

If you're talking about someone with grand plans or with absolutely zero morality, then yes a Lawful Evil character is the easiest to work into a group as they have at least some form of limitation on them. But if the character does have obvious limits (ex: "Fucking slaver scum...", "What did you do to that child?", "Aye. You are… my only friend."), or sets their sights rather low (Being able to retire to a lifetime supply of Bugman's XXXXXX and hookers), Neutral Evil works as it essentially boils down to "Opportunist" and "Self-gain is best-gain".

Don't go full retard

Give your lawful evil character reasons to not betray or upset the party at any cost

Remember that people aren't defined by their alignments, alignments are defined by people

And also, lawful evil doesn't mean you can't have friends

I've had characters play lawful evil characters really well in the past. The thing about lawful evil is that, while you should put your needs and interests first and foremost, that doesn't require you to be a violent sociopath. You can still be fond of your party members and willing to work with them towards a common goal. Heck, one of your interests might be seeing that they don't die/aren't hurt because they bring you happiness and enjoyment. Eventually your interests might come into conflict and then the character has to make decisions.

both lawful and neutral evil work as long as their goals align with those of the party
a fun thing to do as one of those alignments is to be the guy that gets shit done
you're completely loyal to the cause at hand, but you're willing to go through far greater lengths to accomplish it. So when some bureaucrat is being a PITA restricting you access to the artifact you need, you're the one to get "rid" of him, then act like its a happy coincidence he fell into the river and his successor is a lot more reasonable

you can do it. be a benevolent overlord, but always do things for your best interest or ideals.

Why would a thief be Neutral and not Chaotic if his lifestyle revolves around breaking laws?

Just don't be a saturday morning cartoon villain. You can work with good guys if it benefits you. You can save good guys from certain death if it benefits you. Just having "Evil" on your character sheet doesn't mean you have to turn all of your enemies into clouds of bees or stab homeless people on the way to work.

Lawful Evil and Neutral Evil are pretty easy to make work in parties of mostly Good. Lawful Evil in particular, since they generally have some sort of code they follow (even if it's not a particularly good one) and are more likely to follow "the rules" when presented the option to get ahead by doing so.

If the other players are any good at actual roleplaying, every once in a while you can remind them that you're not a Good person by matter-of-factly doing something just Evil enough to throw them off, but not enough to have them all flip out and turn on you.

I feel like a key thing to remember is that Evil can have loved ones. Friends, family, lovers, pets. Perhaps you initially help the party because it's convenient and in your own interests to go along with them and perhaps they to are helped by your presence or by sharing a common goal. However over the course of the adventure, it can be so easy to actual come to like and genuinely befriend the rest of the party and you will be the one willing to do anything for them.because they are YOUR friends.

Stuff like that.

Because Chaotic doesn't mean breaking laws.

Play the evil merchant/official.

nice post number

chaotic doesn't always mean breaking laws. a thief can be lawful evil if, say, he has a personal code that says "don't steal from other thieves" or "don't murder people on the job" but is otherwise willing to do anything in the pursuit of stealing shit.

...yes. Exactly.Which is the reason why I made the fucking thread.

Obvuously there are ahubdred character concepts for any alignment, and I wantes to hear interesting ones that won't ruin the fun for other players.

Retards who parrot the same response every time they get triggered need not apply.

this, sounds pragmatic even

This with the addition that you should make sure that you develop a code of sorts for your character to follow and an end goal they want to reach.

Who backstabs the party, right?

But where else can I spout off about how much the alignment system sucks because I think my choice dictates literally every aspect of my character's personality? He pisses lawful evil.

By tricking the entire world that you were actually good.

My personally preferred kind of Lawful Evil is someone that shirks general morality for specific virtues, especially loyalty.

Extremely viciously loyal to his or her friends and allies and willing to commit whatever atrocities needed for the sake of their safety and interests.

Lawful evil is defined relative to the letter of the law. The best lawful evil characters change the law so that their evil acts are no longer widely considered evil.

>defined relative to the letter of the law
No.

>not creating his character alongside the other players to the party is coherent and has a common goal.
I'd say don't, but in my experience creating 100% independant characters is an excellent recipe for disaster, party infighting, or at least contrived reasons to stay together resulting in uninterested tourist syndrom, regardless of their alignment.
So just play someone that likes nothing more than twist the laws for his personal benefit; and if the campaign crashes, tell yourself it was doomed from the start.

Find me a law that is absolutely evil in spirit, then.

Lawful evil is about exploiting the letter of the law to do evil.

Lawful good is about upholding the spirit of just laws as a framework to protect what's good in the world.

Lawful evil seeks to change what is considered just, unjust, good or evil.

Lawful good seeks to change things that are unjust or evil into things that are just and good.

Very simple.

Make them incredibly pragmatic and goal oriented, but vewry sympathetic and close to their friends - the party memebers.

My Lawful Evil character was a sorceress who traveled with a neutral good bard and a lawful good fighter. She understood that they didn't like killing people, they didn't really want to hurt anyone, and that they would be upset if she mercilessly slaughtered the enemy even though the enemy was evil.

So she protected them from their own lack of pragmatism by killing the enemy behind their backs when she could, threatening people who threatened her friends (and believe me, even a thieves guild is going to think twice about bothering your friends when you send their top 'fixer' back to them in a barrel because you liquified his corpse, with a note saying "bother them again and you will be next"), and generally protectign them from their own erroneous judgement that these people were redeemable and would abide by rules of fair play.

She really did dote on the fighter and she liked the bard, but they were suicidally merciful.

TTIP and its siblings.

To say it curtly:

You're evil, but those are your friends.

Whether you actually enjoy their company or are simply using them, you're keeping them safe. Period.

You're willing to do more morally black things to do that.

For reasons out of your control you have to join the party to accomplish your goal. You have your own goals, and the best way to that is through them.
Understand where your limits are within the party, and bend them a little everywhere you can. Make yourself too valuable for the party to afford chasing off. Also, if you've got some less than clean side goals, leave the party out of it. Maybe step out to "go to the market", and do what needs done

>aims to promote trade, cooperation and multilateral economic growth
It does it at the expense of everything else, but still the official goals are positive ones. Therefore its evil is not absolute.

Don't demand money or "compensation" or whatever the shit these people are saying. LE is someone who likes the way the system is, because while a person may catch on to the fact that they're secretly buying up all the mineral rights from farmers for beans and coppers, or that they have blackmailed a political enemy into signing exclusive logging rights to a forest, regardless of how the natives feel, people, a system, will never figure it out.

No, it aims to take over countries.
The stuff about economic growth is just an excuse. If you've listened to them, they are promising an 0.5% growth within 20 years. If you call that "growth", you'll should also consider dead people to be full of life because of all the worms and insects eating them up from the inside. It's technically correct, but it's horribly missing the point.

Prove it.

On an unrelated note, I'm sad no one has yet seemed to notice my reference when I titled that image "alignments for Gordons"

That's a broad oversimplification. You can make any law tell everything and its contrary if you go this way.

Anyways, I am talking about cosmic absolutes. Even taking over countries isn't inherently Evil. example: The Czechoslovak National Liberation Committee taking over in 1945
Unless the spirit of a law is to make everyone miserable with no trade-off, then it's not absolutely evil.

Act like a very ambitious LN. Don't let the party know. Always carry a lead sheet.