Women at DnD sessions

Hey guys, first let me just say, this isn't a women bashing thread, it's much the contrary.

I've been attending a DnD campaign once a week for a few months. It was a great campaign, I had a great time. However, I couldn't help but noticing how the females that joined the DnD sessions were bored to tears, especially near the end when the game got more complex/meta.

All of these girls are either the wives of players (one was the wife of the DM) or the girlfriend of a player.

Now, I'm happy to just be sitting there playing in a campaign, but I couldn't help noticing that these poor girls look bored to tears. Some have their heads face down on the table, others will wander away from the table to go sit on the couch and just play games on their phones.

I personally feel the entire game would be more enjoyable if all the guys (who were the most entertained by the campaign/story would just do it.

But what really gets me is how NOBODY is addressing the elephant in the room. These girls are clearly bored to tears and uninterested, but both them, and their men don't acknowledge it care to.

So week after week I have to watch these girls "pretend" to like DnD (even though NONE OF THEM would admit that this is what is going on).

My question is:
Have any of you had any similar experiences?
If so, what did you do?

And a reminder, I have nothing against women. If these girls were into DnD, I'd think nothing of it. Also, I notice they tell there boyfriends/husbands afterward they have fun and enjoyed it, but clearly this is false, and the guys either ignore the truth, or are oblivious to how their spouses/girlfriends are doing during the game; I believe it's the former.
In advance, I appreciate the advice/responses.

help pls?

I play with girls all the time and consider two of them to be among the best people I've played with. The girls I play with are always really engaged with the plots I construct.

Guy or girl, you NEVER bring your significant other to the gaming table. Even if they're not coming just to spend time with you despite having no real interest in the hobby (which is most of the time), it creates unfair alliances between characters due to out-of-character reasons, and god help you if one of them in the GM's significant other.

Just don't do that shit to begin with. Find another group.

you can try get them interested (pander to them or something) or tell them to fuck off.

not gonna fault them for wanting to spend time with the hubby, trying out his hobbies and trying to make his friends her friends too

but if you don't have fun with a game, you shouldn't play it.

the best roleplayer I ever had was a woman and the worst DM but I blame Undertale infection on that

Indeed, I'd have no issue with that (if that was the case). I just want to play with players, but the girls at these games could hardly be called that. Yes they made characters, yes they sometimes engaged in the game, but you can just tell they are not enjoying themselves, so why are they there? If they were "engaged with the plots" I wouldn't be making this post.

Should I say something? I'm concerned the group would just not invite me (even tho I consider myself one of their best players at the table).

Yeah, this isn't a "women at the table" problem. This is very distinctly a "fucking putz brought their SO to the table" problem.

If the couple didn't like, meet through D&D or something one is always going to be a tagalong.

>it creates unfair alliances between characters due to out-of-character reasons, and god help you if one of them in the GM's significant other.

I can honestly say this DID happen often during the campaign. ESPECIALLY the DM's wife.

I will consider looking for another group. Thank you for the response.

D&D doesn't really give you narrative control unless GM fiat or Wizard, which is probably why the women are twiddling their thumbs.

How bored to tears would you bored to tears their bored to tears?

>not gonna fault them for wanting to spend time with the hubby, trying out his hobbies and trying to make his friends her friends too
Of course, there is nothing wrong with that. However, they clearly are not enjoying themselves. If anything I learned from these girls is their ability to endure something they have NO interests in. I could never subject myself to that kind of environment, I would have picked up and left. But every weekend, these girls tag along only to be revisited with the same unappealing dissatisfaction.

>Guy or girl, you NEVER bring your significant other to the gaming table. Even if they're not coming just to spend time with you despite having no real interest in the hobby (which is most of the time), it creates unfair alliances between characters due to out-of-character reasons, and god help you if one of them in the GM's significant other.

I'm curious if anyone else has experienced this. ?

Well thanks for the responses guys. I think what I'm gong to do is this:

There are other guys who attend the game every weekend who are either single, or don't bring their significant other. I will probably express my grievances to these individuals, and then take my leave.

Not to toot my own horn, but I feel like I have more to offer as a player. I don't want to keep dealing with this crap every weekend; it does bother me.

It's a shame really, because the guys (without their significant others) are a really great bunch that do enjoy the game.

bump and done

No one is holding a gun to their head, as long as it isn't making the game experience worse I would personally say that you shouldn't stick your nose into other people's decisions.

>as long as it isn't making the game experience worse I would personally say that you shouldn't stick your nose into other people's decisions.

I think I made it clear in my original post that it does indeed make the game experience worse. Irritating. Cringey. Lackluster. Buzzkill. Frustrating. Take whatever pick of these words you want.

>No one is holding a gun to their head
Yeah.. ok.. I think I understand that -.-
But I a human being, and I dedicated weekends/time to these individuals. I helped bring the laughs and enrich their gaming experience by being attentive and participatory EVERY TIME. More so than there dead beat girlfriends/wives who looked like tired dead horses being pulled along.

I'm sorry, it's not my personality to be a push over, and just because I'm single, doesn't mean I haven't had long relationships. In fact, I've been in enough relationships to know what's going on at events like these, and I'm confident enough in relationships to tell my significant other how I truly feel and be honest with what I observe.

So no. I was there, I sat through the campaign for months, I am indeed entitled to how I feel and my own decisions.

I'm not going to say it's a hard and fast rule that it always happens. I've been in groups where it's been perfectly fine... but I've also been in groups where it's caused problems, so it does happen sometimes.

In college I was in a consistent group where a guy brought his girlfriend because she was (supposedly) curious to learn the game, then she became a really good player and their out of game relationship never came up in game or affected how their characters reacted.

After college I joined a group with some guys at the local game store and there were two dudes there with girlfriends and almost every game their characters would all team up and sorta ostracize the last player (they played 5-person games) when it came to splitting up loot or spending healing resources, ect. It was fucking awful.

So yeah, it goes both ways
.
Whatever you do though, don't bother with a group where the DM is with one of the players. I HAVE never seen that work out well. You might as well write "Mary Sue" on their character sheet because the DM is going to let them succeed at everything ever and never face any real risk or danger.

OP, bluntly:
1. It sounds like you may have already made your mind up about this, which is fine;
2. Again, bluntly, their personal issues with communicating their boredom to their SO is absolutely not your problem, and if it is indeed dragging the pace of play and making the experience unpalatable, there is absolutely no onus on you to stay with the group.

I would say that from personal experience, leaving voluntarily is always, always, always preferable to trying to eject others. It's just a lot less messy and far more ethical to identify your dissatisfaction, make your peace with it, and be on your way. It's sad to leave friends and groups, but it's not as if you're telling them you'll never see them again. Sometimes things just get tiresome or don't work out. It's totally acceptable, and part of life.

This is great advice too. I will indeed take my leave, but do you think I should at least tell someone? Like the other guys at the table who aren't bringing their wives/girlfriends?

I feel like something needs to get back to them for "why" I'm choosing to not play with them anymore. Because they are going to ask me why I won't play with them, sooner or later.

I would probably just address the elephant in the room to each of the guys individually (so as not to make a scene).
It's not just a you thing either, the girls in my group are significantly less interested in the game than the guys - though they at least participate unlike your girls.

They're attending the game to be with their significant others, not to actually play, and they didn't understand the level of focus that the game requires of their husband.

That's why; they weren't actually there for D&D, they were there to spend time with their boyfriends only to discover that that's not the kind of activity it is.

OP here, I am tempted to show one of the guys in the group this thread. I trust him that he will not show anyone and I'd really like to demonstrate that there are other people out there that understand my current situation. Do any of you think this is a good idea?

Forever DM here.
Currently doing 5e group with two of my best friends (male), one gf, my gf, and another female friend. Works great so far though it certainly is not on a more professional level some of you might be used to, like maxing chars and multiclassing. Most of them are newco ers besides one of my friends and me so that and the simplified rules of 5e work pretty well. Hope it stays that way. Might help that that same group often did game nights before, like card games, game of thrones risiko and smallworld. So its just another game with more stuff to do and epic shenaningans to happen for them. A-ok with me.

Might as well, if you were planning on ever giving him an answer anyway.

It's fairly easy just to say that, while you have no particular problem with anyone (which seems arguably true, it's not that the wives/girlfriends are bad people, they're just not interested) the energy or pace of the group isn't working for where you're at in life right now.

>Whatever you do though, don't bother with a group where the DM is with one of the players. I HAVE never seen that work out well. You might as well write "Mary Sue" on their character sheet because the DM is going to let them succeed at everything ever and never face any real risk or danger.

Quite the opposite. I throw her the biggest obstacles. Good thing she pickes cleric and usually plays it safer than my allready reckless groio but i am definetly the most rule laywerish wirh her because i definetly could not stand the thought of my friends thinking I'd let her win instead of giving everybody a run for their money.

No offense, but I hear these kinds of excuses from nearly every DM I've seen shower their girlfriends with favoritism.

>"I'm actually being hard on her, I swear. She's just survived longer than everyone else and has more cool stuff because she's a good player!"

You could make the same argument for alliances with friends, it doesn't really hold.

what the fuck kind of couples do you chucklefucks know

is "my wife/gf demands I let her win at games" some millennial bullshit because I've gamed with couples and families and rivalry between them has been fucking terrifyingly intense

most relationships don't make it out of high school unless both parties grow out of "you must always spoil me" behaviour, or you've married some kind of gold digger and shit is gonna get Sunset Boulevard

Except most of the time, unless you're playing with randos, everyone is already friends. Everyone is on an equal playing field so to speak.

As soon as you add in significant others... well, 10/10 times they're a higher priority friends when you're all in the same place together. That's why you're better off just telling your SO you're having a night with the guys and not bringing her along.

Yeah but lets get real, sex forces a lot of decisions.

this is the most autistic thread on tg

Same.

fuck you, it's a legit concern. Read the thread.

>As soon as you add in significant others... well, 10/10 times they're a higher priority friends when you're all in the same place together. That's why you're better off just telling your SO you're having a night with the guys and not bringing her along.

I think these are the kind of people I'm looking for. After what I've experienced, I don't want to go through it again.

This sorta implies they were already into gaming before you showed up, and it's not some dude's uninterested-in-gaming girlfriend tagging along on game night just because she doesn't want him spending time with anyone else without her.

OP here. I'm almost 100% sure my DM would say something similar, but it's clearly not the case. And yes, I'm skeptical if he would admit that he doesn't see things clearly because his significant other is at the table.

One of the last long campaigns I was in imploded when one of the girls in the group brought her boyfriend, and he just kinda Chaotic Neutraled his way through an elaborate plot and got angry and possessive like once a week like clockwork.

Glad to know it's not just our group, then. Our group is a bunch of college normies, and we're very welcoming to new players, so we've all brought in a girl at least once who really wanted to play.

None of them have engaged themselves in the game even slightly, and they mostly just sit next to their boyfriend until halfway through and then make up some excuse to leave. They were usually nerdy types, too, so we expected them to have -some- interest in the game.

Hearing DMs claim they don't favor their girlfriends is like hearing the guy who wants to play a loli vampire catgirl claim he's seriously not doing it for fetish reasons.

I'm a 40K player not a gay RPG player, but my SO would bring me along all the time to his campaigns in various games like DND and something darkness and werewolves. I refused to play because I know I hate those games and I know I would die of boredom and ruin it for others. So what I did instead was listen, sit quietly and draw out scenes of their campaign and I'd draw people's characters and what not. They seemed to really enjoy the drawings even though they were sketchy and what not.

They should do something else other than play or just not come. I know how soul crushing it is if you're not interested. If they can draw have them do what I did and draw out little scenes and characters.

That sounds really awesome. I'd love to have my character drawn. I think you are onto something.

As I said before we allready did game night before wirh the same group. And the ladies love it. Now its just a different game and they are all three invested in it. They are not brought along or something. The bunch of bitches you described are the sort of tag-along who probably wouldnt show up on their own. My gf and the other girl actually gave the gf of my friend a lot of pressure when she was rhe onw holding back our shedule and not finding a date/time to play dnd again.

Regarding favouring my gf, i can only say that i try to throw at them as much as i can. So far they have survived as a group. She picked the cleric so its easier for me because the other players safeguard their heal dumper (life domain) pretty well. I am aware of the problem though. Can obly say i heard no complaints yet.

Do you think it's impossible to just let the dice lay where they call for everyone regardless of relationship?

>Can obly say i heard no complaints yet.
OP here, see and thats the thing. I'm in a situation where I'm not sure if I should even tell anyone my grievances, because we are dealing with significant others here. I doubt you would hear complaints even if there were any.

Because i'm honestly thinking about taking this anons advice and just not saying anything, and just walking away.

I think some people can, but I think most can't.
The problem is the ones who think they can, actually can't. They are blinded by (dare I say it)... love.

It's possible when everyone is playing on equal footing, yes.

When the DM is worried about impressing his girlfriend, making her feel special, or simply afraid of dissapointing her. Yeah... no way in hell. I mean, sure, it's POSSIBLE, but it's also possible that dude playing the vampire loli catgirl really ISN'T doing it for fetish reasons.Possible, but super unlikely.

or sex lol

Well rhink about it: the guys i play with are lifelong friends and with lifelong i mean 30+ years. Rhey have been with me for all the stupid bitches before my current gf. I would definetly take any critial stuff about my dm work srsly if it comes from them. Bros before hoes.
Maybe thats just me. But maxbe your gm thinks along those lines too. I dont fucking know him. But if you think he might you bettet man up and tell him. In private mano i mano.

Dont make a fuss about it. I think your problem lies not in favoring anybody but in a couple of uninterrested bitches. Witch is a dealbreaker and a whole orher can of beans. Still you shoul speak with him. in a private conversation of course.

This might be the case with some but i actually enjoy beating my gf in games and would never "let her win". If she earns it fair game. If not though luck.

>But if you think he might you bettet man up and tell him. In private mano i mano.
>Still you shoul speak with him. in a private conversation of course.

Ugh. You might be right, but I'm seriously not looking forward to this, in fact, I'm dreading it.

My greatest concern is if he disagrees with how I feel; that he the elephant in the room is favored being ignored than how my personal feelings on the matter. I hope that isn't the case, but if that does come into fruition, I honestly don't know what I'll do.

I guess I'll take my leave, and they will all think I'm an asshole. sigh.

Why would you betray someone you love? You're supposed to support your loved ones, and if you let something bad to happen to them (like allowing their character die) it's a betrayal of that trust.

Get out of my thread troll. 0/10

Support does not mean pandering their ass. Youre not their baby sitter. They need to get stronger wirh your hwlp. If that means beating them down mercilessly if they fuck up and then built them up better to comw again and do it right and better this time then they have learned and grewn themself. Baby sitting just fixes the status quo and stopping someone from growing (in real life) is rhe first part of the death sentence of every relationship ever. Just saying.

I'm gonna take both sides on this issue; One one hand, I personally know female DMs and players. And not just DMs and players, but people that put tons of work into their work, that act and do voices, that host livestreams of their games. They are just as into it as me or you.

BUT, on the other hand, I know many, many, MANY more who are literally incapable of caring in any way. I'm talking people who go out of their way to ask for a spot in a game, and then refuse to make time in their lives for it, missing session after session. People who have played 20 straight sessions of D&D and still don't even know their own character's name. There are guys who do this, but I'd say fully 90% of the girls in the hobby fall into this category.

And don't fucking get me started about how the current trend in livestreaming/filming D&D is casting all females and one, token, completely non-threatening beta-male that is incapable of overshadowing or making the girls feel uncomfortable. FUCK that shit.

As i said. You got a different problem i am not sure how to act in as a player myself. As a dm though i would crave for this kind of stuff before anyone leaves without notice. Can tell you only to avoid drama especially with the so of the girls.

It does sound like you have a much better thing going. Congrats on that btw. I'm still dreading talking to anyone in the group about this, which is why I guess I'm making a thread on Veeky Forums.

Yeah no, at the bare minimum having a SO at the gaming table will cause the guy to allow his "better not annoy her or I might not get my dick wet tonight" instincts to influence his decisions.

This is the problem with women being inserted into man time, men simply don't act the same.

>find a group on the internet through rare common interest shared by Veeky Forums
>find out a year into the campaign on individual basis that half of them are girls for all the covering powerlevels and/or genuinely not caring they did

I think this problem is based in playing irl because thus far the game has been fantastic.

do you all fucking live in 90s sitcoms or something

I'm a handholdless kissless virgin, I'll admit, but do guys in relationships really think 'maybe we'll have sex tonight' every time something comes up? Optimism is good, but it's not like sex would happen every day.

Guys act different when women are around, it's just fact. 90's sitcoms have nothing to do with it. Denying that fact is a modern day "political correctness" thing.

That user isn't wrong, it is very accurate description a lot of men's head. I'm a guy, and I admit this. At some point, I would say, "is this worth getting her upset, because I really want to fuck later tonight".

people in relationships are having wild sex at every moment they're out of your sight

>I'm a handholdless kissless virgin, I'll admit, but do guys in relationships really think 'maybe we'll have sex tonight' every time something comes up?
Yes. If your gf/wife is upset with you, sex is off the table. And depending on how long she holds a grudge, it can be worse; women vary here. And yeah, sex happens enough (or not enough) to the point that you don't want to go without it.

I think you are probably right.
Any tips on finding a good group through the internet? I'd be down for this.

My main DMs/players are a couple. And they are both really good, with their own playstyle/storytelling style. However both of them hate DnD with a passion.

Exactly. And some women feel slighted when you didn't stand up for their character in a game of make-believe, hence treating them better than the other players.

Veeky Forums holds gamefinder threads. My group is from an IRC channel about a particular Veeky Forums thing though.

Well this time i am dm. I actually only once was a player. For one half session. Vampire the chronicles or whatever with my then goth ex gf. Dm gave me ALL the shit because he was jealous/wanted to bang my gf. Stopped after half a session. Never been a player before or afterwards ever again.

Same here, actually most of my BFs were players in my games at some point and I only had problems with the really bitchy ones.

Actually I often play with dear firneds of mine... So I don't want to make my SO more important than them and I'm careful not to, since I care about them and the fun they're having as well. It's just a matter of context.

>But what really gets me is how NOBODY is addressing the elephant in the room.

Found your problem.

Player sex and relationship status is irrelevant, if someone is getting bored and no one cares you can't expect them to magically force themselves to care. Maybe they're there because they like the company or they have nothing better to do or they feel an obligation to someone, or maybe they're there because they want to have fun but the rest of the group plays in a way they don't like and no one seems to even notice, let alone care.

Address the elephant in the room, user. Ignoring problems hardly ever solves them.

I play in a group where we have a couple and another where it's all couples and they both work great.

The first group used to have a different couple playing before, and they started skipping sessions without justification and ended up quitting out of the blue after having fucked our schedule for months. That happens too. It's called "some people are fuckwits". The newest couple is an entirely different story, the girl does her best to be at every session despite being 7 months pregnant and having a 3 year old child at home already too, so yeah, dedication doesn't depend on sex in my experience.

Then you're dating whiny bitches and you should seriously think about stopping.

As a forever GM I too would really like to play. Game finder thread when?

You are indeed correct.
I had a lot of relationships (and sex) when I was younger (I'm 30 now), I used to deal with a lot of this kind of behavior, but now that I've ran single for awhile, I'm actually a much happier person for it. It's weird watching my friends (who are now just learning/settling into their long term relationships making the same kind of interesting mistakes and pitfalls I used to make). In some ways, because I experienced this stuff so early in my life I'm doomed from being in a long term (wedded) relationship again, and you know what, I'm actually 100% okay with this. I'm a lot happier running single (with occasionally dating a girl here and there) then being stuck in one of those long term relationships.

Funny thing is, I know I'd be great at another long term relationship, but there are very few out there that I have met that will be good at it as well.

He described 50% of all women and like 95% of millennial women. Finding a good one these days is like trying to find a needle in a haystack, but you're on a timer and the hay is sentient and attempts to trick you by pretending to be the needle you're looking for.

>A good one

Finding the right person for you takes time and effort, for a woman or a man. If 95% of women are not your type, well you lower your expectations or try harder.

You're woefully naive. It's not about "standards" or "types".

Wow. Interesting way to put it. I, in fact, agree with you. Which is why I've learned to generate my own self happiness and not depend on it from others. I am much happier once I understood (and started doing this). I don't "need" to be with someone, in fact, I'd argue that is half of peoples problems when they get into a relationship. A lot of people haven't figured out how to be happy in their own skin. So how on earth are they going to be happy with someone else.

Like I mentioned before, if/when a relationship falls my way, I think I'll be in a much further/mature state of mind than most.

>Finding the right person for you takes time and effort
Actually when you find the right person, it's quite effortless.

It is. Some people are happy living with a woman that behaves like a typical millenial. Some people are happy marrying terrorists as well as SJW. It's all tastes.

It's the process of finding that is ardeous.

A person being happy eating a literal shit sandwich doesn't make the shit sandwitch anything other than what it is. No matter what anyone says or feels it's still a sandwich made of shit.

Then if you're not happy eating the shit sandwich quit bitching about it and find yourself a better meal. And if you can't maybe it's because women aren't sandwiches.

And maybe they don't appreciate the kind of people that considers them a nuisance at their game table.

Note: this only applies if you're an emotionally stunted immature fuckwit dating a similarly emotionally stunted immature fuckwit. Any adult group can effectively separate reality from roleplay, what with that being the fucking core element of the hobby.

Admittedly, many groups start out as teenagers, which are notably insecure in both genders, and persist into college, which isn't a great deal better. By the time you're 30, you're probably too busy to still play, which eliminates a lot of the maturity factor. So perhaps my advice is limited to truly ancient grognards.

Ever had warheads? You know, the candy? Because they're about as sour as those grapes you can't have.

so you seriously believe it's normal and commonplace for people in functional and stable relationships to say shit like "let me win at a board game or no sex"

if a relationship is that fucking fragile there's a much deeper issue

if someone is in the kind of relationship where winning or losing at a game has that sort of significance they probably need to unfuck themselves or get relationship counseling, that's not normal or commonplace

Man you're bad at this whole "metaphor" thing.

Millennial women are selfish and emotionally manipulative. The selfishness part is a generational trait that spans both genders, but it combos great with the emotional manipulation and a society that is permissive towards it.

Smart men have either checked out of the relationship market (often due to a mistaken notion that millennial women will mature as they age, as if they haven't been saying that for better than a decade now and it still hasn't panned out) or found an older woman from a less insane generation.

I chose not to settle for that. What I DID settle for was a wide receiver from a women's "professional" football team who has ten years on me, thank god I accepted that assistant coaching position.

And before you ask why a wide receiver was that old, the talent pool for women's football can be fucking weird, especially for positions like WR where being a bulldyke orge isn't a good thing.

I did, and it's more complicated than what user says. For example there's this couple who behaves mostly normally in our group, but doesn't in the one where he is the DM. Mostly because he allows her to do whatever she wants, and I think she knows and she's testing him constantly (probably she even wants him to stop).

On the other hand I had this couple where the boyfriend DM was aggresively bashing his girl all the time, in and off-rol.

So basically it's not that couples ally themselves, rather they transfer their issues to the table. And no, it's not the same with friends at all.

And maybe if you weren't as full of shit as were of tired stereotypes you would realize the actually good women of the millenial generation can't fucking stand assomptions about their 'selfishness and manipulation' based on their vagina and date of birth.

Just ignore it, he'll keep spurting shit out. He craves attention so he can preach to people.

Even if that's true, that's still bad.

He probably doesn't even know what a millenial is.

HERE IS A PROTIP

IF YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS SO INSECURE YOU CAN'T EVEN PLAY BOARDGAMES WITH YOUR PARTNER WITHOUT A ROW ABOUT NOT LETTING THEM WIN, THAT IS NOT A FUNCTIONAL RELATIONSHIP

IF, IN FACT, THE RESULT OF A FUCKING BOARD GAME PLAYED WITH FRIENDS AFFECTS YOUR PRIVATE LIFE, THERE IS A SERIOUS FUCKING UNDERLYING ISSUE THERE.

THIS IS NOT NORMAL, OR HEALTHY, AND IT IS PROBABLY A SIGN ONE OR BOTH OF YOU HAVE SERIOUS ISSUES AND PROBABLY NEED TO HAVE AN ACTUAL TALK ABOUT WHY YOU CAN'T SOCIALISE NORMALLY

...

Wew someone's getting triggered. Is it really any great surprise that guys are choosing not to play emotional Russian roulette with a ruined generation of psychopaths?

This. I've been running games for longer than Veeky Forums has been alive and it seems very consistent. Women make fine players who can grapple with and enjoy drama and mechanics just as well as men. People dragged along to suffer somebody else's attempts to try and force them to be converted will never have fun and are only doing it because their SO asked them to.

The only people who have ever taken up the hobby go out on their own accord to do their research, ask questions and actually be interested, rather than be dragged to a table and get force-fed.

Is it really any great surprise that girls would rather find sensible guys rather than people who call them ruined psychopaths ?

You're still replying to him. That's what he wants, you dumbass. Stop that. Let him wallow in his retardation in silence.