/STG/ Star Trek General

Bumping with sleek ship.

I will admit that the Vorgon ships where sexy.

I rather like both the Protoype Reman and the Breen one. Ultimately though, I rather like the Tholian rep shield. Gives a ship a grey, scaled, slabs of armor look to it.

Who loves these dear little death traps? Because I've got some fresh screenshots hot off the presses for my T1 Forever challenge character in her Oberth, the U.S.S. Carl Sagan, NCC-671.

So how often does she get blown up?

Not as often as you might think. The character is an engineer, so that helps.

Based Miracle Worker keeping you alive.

Don't even have it yet. Just got to 20 with this character. But yeah, once I have it, Miracle Worker is going to be my go to "don't you fucking come apart on me!" power.

I like the name. I'm just not a fan of the Oberth. I thought she would have made sense as a civilian ship, but as part of Starfleet she seems to small to carry out the majority of scientific assignments.

She's pretty much the "when you need to ferry people around and do some light surveying" ship. I don't think they were ever mean to fight, as seen in STIII when Krug's gunner accidentally destroys Grissom.

STO, however, is a different matter. The only T1s better than the Oberth are the Andorian one, and the B'Rotlh. And I'd argue the Oberth is neck and neck with the Andorian ship, statwise thanks to Sensor Analysis.

It's weird that she's got such good stats for being a T1. The Miranda should, by all rights, have more firepower and be able to take more damage... but Sci ships have that shield multiplier, and SA, and the Miranda has literally nothing. Not even cruiser commands.

I suppose we can trust the C-Store page for the Oberth. Decommissioned before the Dominion war, re-activated because "modular ship design" techniques allowed them to be refit for 25th century service. So, I guess they're not mint 2380s.

Still begs the question of why the Miranda is inferior? Maybe they (in-universe) felt she didn't need the upgrade because she was adequate as she was?

No love for the Miranda I'm afraid. I suppose it wouldn't make sense to not have them exploding every 30 seconds.

Oh well. During the Galorndon Core mission my Oberth blew up a bunch of times. Damn nakhuul.

You know there should be a character perk where you can summon Mirandas or Birds of Prey depending what you are playing. To do nothing else but to be hostile fire magnets and hoping they damage near by enemies with warp core breaches.

We call that Fleet Support 1.

And that summons a battleship.

Galorndon Core: the shittiest planet with the greatest name.

If they ever make a T6 Miranda class, she should have a console that summons a fleet of Mirandas. The console should be called "Light Cruiser Command Codes" and the active power could be called "Sisters in Arms". Effect? Summons a shit ton of Mirandas whose damage scales with yours (and phaser consoles), which when they reach 0 HP, either they explode in a large radius, or use Ramming Speed at their target.

For each one that dies, the entire team gets a bonus to damage resistance and shield hardness called "Sacrifice of Angels".

iirc it was a Klingon world in Klingon Academy. Besides Praxis, it was the only other source of dilithium in the Empire at the time. Until that p'taq Melkor promises it to the Romulans, only to destroy the system in a vain attempt to defeat Chang. Hence Praxis becomes even more overworked than it already is.

Never mind, I'm thinking of the Tal'Ihnor Gates

Not Fleet Support 1, Fleet Support II and III summon the bigger guns.

Anyone able to point at a random shit to find whilst exploring generator/set of tables?

>she seems to small to carry out the majority of scientific assignments
Why would it be too small? All you need for science would be sensors and some small labs (even the ones on Ent-D weren't that big). Science is not EXPLORATION!, it's science.
>Enterprise goes out and discovers stuff
>Oberth-chan comes to do long-term science

Man, the new Star Trek movies aren't what I'd call great, but I really enjoyed Beyond. Plus Jaylah is the ultimate alien waifu.

If this doesn't exist, maybe we should make one?

I mean it's basically just a themed random encounters table. Doesn't really need more than a sentence per entry. A lot of it could be just taken from scripts or rejected ones like image related here.

Justin Lin actually managed to make the Situation and characters feel like Star Trek, even if it still was mostly an Action movie and I appreciate that, hell even in Context the Bike Scene isn't as stupid as it was first presented.

I seriously need to watch it. I've been putting it off because I can't stand Chris Pine, and the other two movies drive me to fits of rage. 2009 is one of the few movies that I can never enjoy.

Going in blind to the theater was a bad idea with that one. I should have done my research and set my expectations lower. At least I can watch Into Darkness and like it for some of the good ideas, and hate it (in a good way) for all the stupid it dumps on said ideas.

Really? I am the complete opposite, I enjoyed 2009 and thought it was a decent setup to an alternate timeline, then I went and saw Into Darkness and came out fuming mad, still get mad, because while I can deal with the shitty setup to pull Kirk out of the captains seat so we can kill Pike, to put Kirk back in the captains seat. That sudden tonal shift when Kirk goes to Engineering and it immediately becomes a reverse of Wrath of Khan like a Poorly done piece of Fan-Fiction? At that point the creativity and good points of the middle section of the movie become so irrelevant to me to the thirty minutes the movie decides to take to be un-creative and Ape wrath of Khan, AND try to imply its better than Wrath of Khan.

Like, holy hell I see red just thinking of that movies God Awful end.

Is German your native tongue?

No, but I still felt Beyond was more Star Trek than the two movies that came before it.

I agree with you. I asked about German because you capitalized so many nouns in the previous post.

You know, I just noticed that now that you've pointed it out and I have literally no idea why I did that.

Let me preface what I'm about to say with this:

2009 is the better movie. It's well paced, has incredibly well done special effects, and I feel many of the actors brought their A game.

However, Pine is garbage. In everything I've ever seen him in, and I can't stand his smug, frat-boy face. I have a similar hate for Michael Cera, for no reason I can adequately explain.

My issues with 2009 are with Abrams. He has zero sense of scale, and zero sense for the universe he's playing with. Nero fucks off for 25 years for no good reason. His ship destroys 40 something klingon "warbirds" despite the fact that the Kelvin was able to disable the Nerada for at least a little while by ramming it.

I can go on, but I think most of my gripes are a matter of taste, and the fact that TOS is my favorite Trek series. I was introduced to Trek through reruns when I was very, very little (pre-elementary school), and as a result, I'm more than a little invested in the characters and universe (possibly to my detriment where remakes are concerned - it's entirely possible I'd never have given any remake/reboot/alternate universe a fair shake, and I acknowledge that).

But 2009's blatant disregard for the source material, its storytelling blunders (no, a graphic novel doesn't count - if it wasn't in the movie, it's still a major plothole in the film itself), and the nasty little attempt to emotionally manipulate you in the beginning with George Kirk and his wife naming Jim made for a viewing experience I wasn't at all expecting, and made me more and more furious as the movie went on.

So... my expectations were exceptionally low when Into Darkness came out, and I skipped it. I later watched it on netflix, and enjoyed the bits about terrorism, military boondoggles/adventurism, and hated all the rehashing of Wrath of Khan.

Into Darkness is a terrible movie, worse, I think, than Final Frontier. But I can enjoy it in the same way I enjoy other bad films. 2009 hit a sensitive nerve.

wait a minute what the fuck

whose bright idea was it to have 2 star trek shows running concurrently?

Beyond is substantially better than either of the ones before it. And Pine actually feels like Kirk in it, which blew my fucking mind.

This is from someone else whose favorite series is TOS, mind.

2009 had one of the best opening scenes in the series history, and then squandered it away with pointless plot twists for the sake of IT'S A DIFFERENT UNIVERSE! OOOOOO! that it was just gutting. Into Darkness was a continuation of the theme, and so I saw it only recently, and mostly I just hated everyone in the movie not named Peter Weller, Karl Urban or Simon Pegg.

Those are all incredibly good reasons to hate 2009, I probably would be the same if my introduction was TOS, but it was weirdly the TOS Movies and TNG, I can't remember which came first.

I think though my love of Wrath of Khan though is what really makes me lose my shit personally with Into Darkness, and sadly I can't believe I never realized I like The Final Frontier more than Into Darkness, and I hate The Final Frontier and I can't even enjoy it as a bad movie beyond the camping scenes.

>and the nasty little attempt to emotionally manipulate you in the beginning with George Kirk and his wife naming Jim
That part is good, man.

Oh and let me clarify why I think the opening of ST:2009 is good. The writing is so-so, but seeing a Star Trek ship cut loose and have a real light show of firepower to try and save its crew is a great experience.

I will try to be open minded when I see it. Into Darkness really set my expectations super low though, so nearly anything will be more pleasant than that.

The Kelvin entering the scene was really good. The fight scene was also good. Got my hopes up seeing it in the theater.

Oh yeah. Wrath of Khan and Undiscovered Country are my favorites. I think though, that I don't have a blinding hatred of Into Darkness because it pathetically fails to ape Wrath of Khan in anything more than an insipid, superficial way. I have only contempt and pity for it.

I will have to respectfully disagree. It struck me (as it was happening before my eyes in the theater) as incredibly calculating from a storytelling perspective.

For me, its those stupid, insipid, superficial ways, that piss me off cause as I'm watching the movie the fact they decided to even try to ape Wrath of Khan makes me feel like they're screaming "We're better than Wrath of Khan, look at our big dumb action scene and Spock Yelling KHAAAAAAAAAAAAAN like the joke, isn't that fitting? It totally is, we're so much better than the original!"

And yeah, it is incredibly calculating cause they want you too feel bad about Kirks father dying, after all he was the biggest Influence in Kirks life. Its probably, for as painful as it is, the most well-written and done part of the movie.

Though again, I totally understand your feelings and do not blame you for feeling that way about 2009.

I get you.

>feelings

Yeah. It's those things that get in the way of rational analysis. It's true that the scene is probably the best written one in the movie, but I can't get over my initial reaction of:

"Holy shit. They are incapable of writing well written characters and getting me to like them organically as people, so they're going for the shotgun pellet spray of melodrama, impending heroic sacrifice, and a pregnant soon to be widow and praying it sticks."

Maybe I'm just a cynical old man.

Get off my lawn!

Rick Berman, when they had TNG and DS9, then DS9 and VOY, overlapping.

>Vulcanian

>Klingonese
>Kling

This is probably due to how wildly successful TNG was. It had millions of viewers during its peak years. More than any other Trek show ever. Even non-fans were watching it.

Recently been re-watching some bits of TOS, and I'm beginning to wonder if Vulcan is even their original home planet. What if there was a precursor "vulcanian" species that had an empire long ago, and the various Vulcanian subraces (Vulcans proper, Romulans, the Mintakans, Rigelians - not to be confused with Rigellians, and possibly Remans and others).

This seems to be suggested in the TOS episode "Return to Tomorrow". Makes me wonder.

Whoops. I trailed off there. Meant to say "and the various Vulcanian/vulcanoid species are colonies and remnants of that long ago empire". I would additionally add that they're so separated by time that they've almost become different species, and have forgotten their connections to each other. They might even be descendants of different cultures found in the original vulcanoid species, and so would have little reason to suspect they're related since their cultural practices would be so different.

Speculation, certainly.

...

>has zero sense of scale
Did you mean: Trek in general?

Speaking of which with all the tech manuals that have come out. Do we know just how fast is warp speed? I know it has kind of changed from TOS to TNG with the scale going to a infinite climbing curve where warp 10 is ultimate speed. But of course then there is shit like transwarp and slipstream drives which are just bullshit tech even for the Trek setting.
>So with warp engines how long would take to get to a solar system that's 4 LYs from Earth in TNG or TOS warp 1?

As I understand it, Warp 1 is baseline on both scales as being 1*c, so, literally light-speed. So, thus, it'd take four years to get there, presuming you aren't having to turn the warp bubble around mid-flight to slow down.

Afaik, Warp 1 is c in both scales, and Warp 5 is 125c in the old sscale (or at least in ENT). Aside from that, no idea.

Warp 1 was initially, 2x the speed of light, IIRC. Then Warp 2 flitted between 3 or 4x, 3 between 4 or 6, and so on. Then when they changed it, Warp 1 was light speed, and everything after that was muddied, since it switched to a logarithmic scale. According to the TNG Manual, Warp 1 is Light Speed, Warp 2 is 10x LS, Warp 3 is 39x, Warp 4 is 102x, 5 is 214x, 6 is 392, 7 is 656, 8 is 1024x, and 9 is 1516x light speed.

So going from that TNG scale if we want to go from Earth to the closest other system 4LYs away. Going at warp 9 it would take just under a day to get there, right? That is of course assuming you could maintain warp 9 for that long which most ships in the Trek setting as we have been told can't without burning out the warp engines or blowing up along the way.
>TFW it must have sucked to get anywhere in the pre-TOS era counter to whatever ENT showed us.

>>feelings
>expecting meaningful, organic character development instead of having the opportunity wasted by replicated hahaha I'm funny right cheese
>expecting this from a franchise that has Picard's folks die because dubiously relevant melodrama is surprisingly effective at blocking transporter signals
>expecting this from a franchise that has neelix
>fucking neelix
>seriously, when he's more three-dimensional in Delta Rising than he is in the show, something's wrong

Raeg aside, I honestly wouldn't have minded the feelings if they weren't done so fucking hamfistedly. It's pretty hard to break my suspension of "this is formulaic as shit", but the opening of 2009 really did (at least when paying attention - I really didn't mind the first time when still in awe of the techiness and shootiness), especially when it would've been easy to tweak the dialogue to do feels *properly* instead of just giving James T some /hhg/-tier daddy issues.

Also to be fair to Abrams, the brief was to make a truly blockbuster Trek, which, let's be honest, means normiefying it - and since the ENT experiment of making Trek tacticool (and Christian Rock) failed so badly, he had to make it technicool instead. Now, would you rather he ruin your ripe, fertile post-TNG Movie territory (that STO is busy ruining instead) with shootiness, steel walkways and a complete absence of shields? Or would you rather have him shove it into an AU so all the purists don't erupt into as much of a shitstorm? I *do* wish the Narada and the Jellyfish still had the "regular" trek aesthetic, but I feel like the alternate timeline handwaving was the least worst solution to a reboot trying to take advantage of TOS's legendary status.

do they ever go into detail in tng/ds9/voy about if homosexuality is accepted in humanity and other races/cultures

the only time i only remember anything gay in the main series was in ds9 with quark thinking that ferengi woman disguised as a man wanted to fug him and he just came off as not being interested in having sex

Since the target demo of the setting are mostly sexless geeks. I think making too homo would weird or turn them off. I mean in one TNG episode Riker was about to punch a hole into an alien who wanted to be a lady in a race that had no 'gender'. I think there are a ton of fags in Trek universe and I'm not talking of the fan base here. But they just don't talk about it because it's not 'Twilight'. With a large fan girl base that want to see Kirk and Spock fuck like in slash fic I know are out there. Now girl on girl stuff would be fine in Trek since geek guys can get into that.

There were a couple of instances of it with the Trill.

DS9 spoiler: Dax runs into the host of a symbiont she used to be married to, only now they're both female. 2 symbionts re-entering into a relationship from previous hosts is frowned upon, but nobody seems all that shocked by the notion of 2 women banging.

TNG spoiler: There's also Crusher and the OG Trill diplomat. He gets romantically involved with her, then gets killed by terrorists and ends up inhabiting Riker. Crusher is uncomfortable with it but they remain tangentially involved. When the Trill gets a new host, Crusher is initially excited to reingage with him until it turns out he's now female. Crusher rejects her and so ends the arc.

What we learn from these 2 instances is that, in theory, most people think homosexual relationships are fine. However it's not like everyone is bi. The majority of people still hold to traditional straight values.

>I mean in one TNG episode Riker was about to punch a hole into an alien who wanted to be a lady in a race that had no 'gender'.

Originally the alien actor was supposed to be a dude but the network wouldn't go for it.

Dax also found it really obvious that ferengi was in love with quark, but reacted with complete shock when she found out it was a woman.
Honestly id say Quark was actually pretty confused by the whole idea, i didnt get the impression he "didnt want to have sex" but rather "what is this, what is happening" as though his species had literally no concept of this.

So, has anyone so far gotten a single epic or exceedingly rare phoenix coupon?

They cured all mental illnesses* in humanoids by TOS time, so no, no homos.
Probably lots of bi though, because muh futuristic sexual liberation.
*apparently autism isn't a mental illness.

I got a couple UR's. I think the UR's are the same rarity as a typical lockbox main prize (.4-.5%), and the epics are like the super grand prizes they sometimes do.

>*apparently autism isn't a mental illness.
I think unless you are a violent offender they don't try to change your brain workings. Which I guess explains Barkley's behavior since he wasn't violent just weird so they left him alone.

www.st-minutiae.com/resources/warp/

A warp factor, time, velocity and distance calculator. And unlike the top result on google, this one isn't attach to some nutjob's page. Gets a little fiddly if you try to calculate warp factors over 9.9 but it does account for them if you do it top down.

Turns out that slipstream drive, going by the Voyager travelling 300 light years in an hour was about warp factor 9.999993 on the TNG scale or 138.03 on the TOS scale.

Either way, weirdly fascinating to play with. Also a handy tool if you want consistency

Just got about 24 boxes. 13 uncommon, 8 rare, 3 very rare.

To be honest I'm just abusing the ever loving shout out of the universal upgrades you get from uncommon.

Im gonna wait for the next upgrade event before using mine.
Gotta exploit the fuck out of the exploitations!

I've got so much of them now that I'm fairly sure I can get everything to epic with no bother

Did the authorities even know there was a fire until it was too late? Unless they had a fire alarm with a link to whatever fire department was nearby there might not have been any way for someone to know until it was too late. If I remember correctly, they didn't even have a replicator installed in the home (while homemade food tastes better, the sheer convenience of it cannot be ignored for some things).

That...doesn't make the situation sound less stupid in any way whatsoever.

It sounds stupid that someone didn't buy a fire alarm with the equivalent of a phone line? Because that happens all the time.

I'm unreasonably happy that they've fixed the Nebula class so that she has impulse engines.

Also explains why Bashir's parents had to break the law to cure him of his pretty severe mental disability, whatever it was. Earth is full of people with problems that the Federation could fix but chooses not to because muh Khan

People are terrified of gene modded rice, you can't expect them to be sensible about getting rid of things that are problems.

>Earth is full of people with problems that the Federation could fix but chooses not to because society does not need everybody to perfect

Man does not live on bread alone.

He must have peanut butter.

>do they ever go into detail in tng/ds9/voy about if homosexuality is accepted in humanity

DS9 more or less establishes it as not being a concern anymore. No one cares who you bang as long as that person is an adult and consenting.

I like to think that there's actually a pretty intense debate regarding the benefits of limited genetic manipulation.

In "Family", the TNG episode revolving around visiting Earth after the Borg attack, we see that there are some that simply don't agree with the Federations stances. We see this again in Sisko's father and also in Bashir's mere existence.

I wholeheartedly believe that, if I were in that situation, I would do anything to give my child a chance at a normal life. And I tend to believe that there are thousands of human families within the Federation that not only would do the same, but have to face that possibility because of some quirk of mutation. How bitter a pill it must be to swallow to hear that your child will never have a normal life because "muh 350 year old boogeyman".

God Tier
>Jaylah
>TOS Uhura

Good Tier
>Nuhura
>Janice
>Lieutenant Torres

Okay Tier
>Everyone not listed above or below

"Okay... I guess" tier
>Troi

Hot, but a mediocre character in a mostly bad series tier
>T'Pol

Shit tier
>Janeway

I'd disagree with you on T'Pol, but even I realize I like Enterprise in spite of some very poor writing. That being said, being sent to Decon with her has to be a special kind of hell.

>Troi
>not shit tier

I am genuinely fine with you moving whoever you want as long as you don't argue about the two I put in God Tier.

>Janice Rand
>anywhere on that list

Can't act, crap character, glad they ditched her.

>Torres
>angry all the time and lashes out at people constantly yet gets to stay as department head due to being buddies with the captain
>not Shit Tier

Distinctly missing from Good or God tier:
>no Dax, any version
>no Kira
>no Morn
>no that one vulcan with ze big boobies who was in the maquis

The fuck are you on?

>Not wanting early-DS9 Kira to slap you about a bit and show you her "Pah"

Lad, you're not even trying. Next you'll be telling me you don't want mirror Ezri to capture you and use you as her slave.

No one is going to argue Uhura, and I refused to see the other on the grounds that J. J. Abrams is a hack and all he touches is bad, so I can't judge her.
>angry all the time and lashes out at people constantly yet gets to stay as department head due to being buddies with the captain
Sounds like a Chief Petty Officer, except she's somehow a junior officer.
>Not wanting early-DS9 Kira to slap you about a bit and show you her "Pah"
Stop making me feel things.

Abrams left before they made Beyond. They just kept his name on it.

He touched the universe. I'm not going to see the new Star Wars films now, I gave him one last shot with VII, he blew it harder than a hydrogen bomb.

So are you never going to watch anything Star Wars again even if he isn't involved?

Even Lucas got past his ego and liked Rogue One.

No, I'm just not going to watch the sequel films. Rogue One is a "Maybe".

Abrams has been brought up, so I'm just going to give you all my 500 kwachas on the matter.

Abrams is great at aping the style/stories of others. Super 8 is straight up a Spielberg movie. Star Trek (09) and Force Awakens are just Spielberg-ised variations of 2 of modern sci-fis cornerstones. It's worth noting that Abrams considers Spielberg his inspiration. The Cloverfields are his take on the monster franchise/isolation thriller. Even with his TV shows there's a tendency to give pre-existing franchises the Abrams treatment. And that's not a terrible thing. Westworld is probably the best show I've watched this year. But Lost, Alias, Fringe and Revolution were just sort of... there. They exist, but I have no strong feelings about them because they're so bland.

In short, Abrams is omnipresent in pop culture, and that's not necessarily a good thing. He makes gold on occasion, but he also made Into Darkness, so there's that.

>Even Lucas got past his ego and liked Rogue One.

But Lucas has always liked fan films.

>Sounds like a Chief Petty Officer

Well she certainly can be petty.

I do actually like that the character had traits that brought them into conflict with others on the crew, I just don't like the character as a person in the same (though vastly superior) Worf would have disagreements with others, though at least he tended to keep it professional.